Sack Petrillo

[jw1739]

Need to get this guy out of the club before it disintegrates. His next job should either be in a firm of receivers, or on a remake of the film "Exodus."

[Mr MO]

Agree, the little credit he’s build up regarding squad and player management is completely gone. How big is that list now with “mutually terminated” players?

[haz]

Hey cmon. There are heaps of mates he can still sign. 

Edited July 11 by haz

[CityBoyz]

 

Then makes statements of minimal turnover in offseason we are up to 10 departures. Absolute circus https://x.com/forevermelbcity/status/1810566403902328852?s=46&t=4Ojb3jZfekNAl99sYn49_A

Edited July 15 by CityBoyz

[jw1739]

In fairness, the last four left at the end of their agreed loan period - that is agreed between City and their parent club - but the first four walked out on contracts, which is far more important IMO.

However, you also have to factor in departures from the club's coaching staff, and overall it is not a good picture.

And when you consider the resources backing City, supposedly the "benchmark club," it looks even worse. It is at a time when the rest of the league is fighting for survival that we should be winning everything in sight with marquee and designated players, and the best coaching staff.

Edited July 16 by jw1739

[Mr MO]

1 hour ago, CityBoyz said:

 

Then makes statements of minimal turnover in offseason we are up to 10 departures. Absolute circus https://x.com/forevermelbcity/status/1810566403902328852?s=46&t=4Ojb3jZfekNAl99sYn49_A

Unfortunately the list a lot longer if you look past these two seasons Every season we’ve had crucial visa player fall outs. The guy is just massively overrated and this club needs the broom and fresh start.

[belaguttman]

4 hours ago, Mr MO said:

Unfortunately the list a lot longer if you look past these two seasons Every season we’ve had crucial visa player fall outs. The guy is just massively overrated and this club needs the broom and fresh start.

There are problems at multiple levels:

Fan engagement (not community engagement, which is done quite well) is tokenistic from season to season, reflected in the churn of season ticket holders.

Men's Team recruitment: perhaps it's a more competitive global recruitment environment than the women's competition, but there's also a far larger pool of suitable players. We seem to do well with both visa women recruitment and local women recruitment. Same facilities.

Player replacement. The ALM is a development league; every successful team is going to lose multiple players to overseas contracts; we need to plan for that. To be fair, we have done this to an extent with a junior academy, however many of these players have left as they had insufficient game time. Every season, the average age of our starting lineup has increased.

Panache. If we want to play with panache, we need a coach and senior franchise managers with panache. We don't. Aurelio is a safe choice, a cautious coach; at least, we'll be solid, but never exciting.

[jw1739]

3 minutes ago, belaguttman said:

...

Player replacement. The ALM is a development league; every successful team is going to lose multiple players to overseas contracts; we need to plan for that. To be fair, we have done this to an extent with a junior academy, however many of these players have left as they had insufficient game time. Every season, the average age of our starting lineup has increased.

...

"Multiple players to overseas contracts?" I'd like to see the statistics on that. And how, for example, we compare with Central Coast and Adelaide. And to be careful that we don't include in those statistics players that we obtained from other clubs in the first place.

But the telling point is that we are now fielding an "old" squad - and recruiting older players such as Souprayen and Jeggo - which is not consistent with being in a "development league."

[CityBoyz]

Good overview of Petrillo job

[belaguttman]

2 hours ago, jw1739 said:

"Multiple players to overseas contracts?" I'd like to see the statistics on that. And how, for example, we compare with Central Coast and Adelaide. And to be careful that we don't include in those statistics players that we obtained from other clubs in the first place.

But the telling point is that we are now fielding an "old" squad - and recruiting older players such as Souprayen and Jeggo - which is not consistent with being in a "development league."

Well, the last few seasons we've lost 

Atkinson

Metcalfe

O'Neill

Behich (loan)

Tilio (and got him back)

That's a significant loss of starting 11 players, all are Socceroos. We've also lost several bench young players from our Academy who didn't get game time with us

It's not just the number of players, they were all key players; O'Neill, in particular hasn't been adequately replaced and his crippled our style of play last season

[jw1739]

18 minutes ago, belaguttman said:

Well, the last few seasons we've lost 

Atkinson

Metcalfe

O'Neill

Behich (loan)

Tilio (and got him back)

That's a significant loss of starting 11 players, all are Socceroos. We've also lost several bench young players from our Academy who didn't get game time with us

It's not just the number of players, they were all key players; O'Neill, in particular hasn't been adequately replaced and his crippled our style of play last season

This where it gets difficult. We can probably claim Atkinson, Metcalfe and Bos, but I don't think we can claim O'Neill, Behich or Tilio. Behich played for Victory U-21, O'Neill would probably be claimed by Burnley, and Tilio played for Sydney before he came to us.

 

[belaguttman]

Tilio came to us because he was bench-warming at Sydney, who also had an aging team. 

Behich was de-listed by the visit0rs as punishment for missing his Grand Final goal. We recruited him and JVS turned him into a LB, so I'd claim him

[NewConvert]

11 hours ago, jw1739 said:

This where it gets difficult. We can probably claim Atkinson, Metcalfe and Bos, but I don't think we can claim O'Neill, Behich or Tilio. Behich played for Victory U-21, O'Neill would probably be claimed by Burnley, and Tilio played for Sydney before he came to us.

 

Where it gets difficult is finding and nurturing young talent. There is a short window of time where the players acquire skills and nous, and finding the players is difficult because so many show potential. The second degree of difficulty is acquiring/maintaining  older players that can provide leadership and maturity on the field. Who found them and developed does not matter, it is the club that gets the transfer money that matters.

[belaguttman]

1 hour ago, NewConvert said:

Where it gets difficult is finding and nurturing young talent. There is a short window of time where the players acquire skills and nous, and finding the players is difficult because so many show potential. The second degree of difficulty is acquiring/maintaining  older players that can provide leadership and maturity on the field. Who found them and developed does not matter, it is the club that gets the transfer money that matters.

It's hard to develop from the bench, we've played too few young players over the past two seasons and now we are paying the price

[moops]

15 hours ago, belaguttman said:

Well, the last few seasons we've lost 

Atkinson

Metcalfe

O'Neill

Behich (loan)

Tilio (and got him back)

That's a significant loss of starting 11 players, all are Socceroos. We've also lost several bench young players from our Academy who didn't get game time with us

It's not just the number of players, they were all key players; O'Neill, in particular hasn't been adequately replaced and his crippled our style of play last season

CCM did as much business as us and with key players the prior transfer window and it seems this window they are losing the same amount again, though their backline will be decimated this coming season, Hall, Farrell and Kaltac have all been sold I think, Vukovic has retired, Balard has gone to Portugal iirc one of their dm's and Nisbet is gone.

They shouldn't be anywhere near the top with those losses but I wouldn't be surprised, they seem to have their shit together now. I didn't think they would be as good as they were last season, but three men's trophies is a good haul. I wonder if winning the Asian cup if they are automatically in for the Asian champions league and one extra spot is now open for Aussie teams? I have no idea.

We just didn't adapt, we lost key players who brought us certain things and those that replaced them couldn't do the same. But we persisted that they try, instead of tweaking things to better suit what we had. CCM seemed to do that better than us, turning into a strong defensive unit, where they were a lot more attacking before.

 

Edited July 16 by moops

[jw1739]

I think CCM do indeed qualify for the ACL1 next season. It's not just a flash in the pan either. Don't forget that they also did very well when Arnold was their coach. They are an example of a club that plays with a belief in itself, that it can win despite the odds.

[moops]

1 minute ago, jw1739 said:

I think CCM do indeed qualify for the ACL1 next season. It's not just a flash in the pan either. Don't forget that they also did very well when Arnold was their coach. They are an example of a club that plays with a belief in itself, that it can win despite the odds.

They had a long term plan and stuck to it, it took a long time and they had some hard years, but it seems it's starting to pay dividends, even as much as paying AGF a fee for a player this coming season. They have been busy behind the scenes with their centre of excellence, hotel attached to their offices and forming alliances with local NSL clubs, they concentrated on the ground up rather than flash in the pan recruitment.

I admire what they have become and built, there's nothing wrong in saying that, we have only started to do that now since our move to Casey, so we have some catching up to do I think in that regard. That said we have done pretty well recruiting young players over the last few seasons, Bos, Tilio, Azani, Atkinson. Like Bela said, over the last few seasons we haven't been brave enough to give some of our youth game time and you could also argue players like Galloway, which has harmed us in the now.

[jw1739]

One extra point I'll make - the CCM Academy team plays (alongside WSW and Sydney FC) in the NSW NPL proper, against the top non-A-League football clubs in NSW - a much higher level than our Academy team.

Their success is no surprise to me.

[Le Hack]

42 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

One extra point I'll make - the CCM Academy team plays (alongside WSW and Sydney FC) in the NSW NPL proper, against the top non-A-League football clubs in NSW - a much higher level than our Academy team.

Their success is no surprise to me.

Also like yo point out that a lot of their young players don't actually come through their systems or their NPL sides, they poach a lot of them from SA, Qld, Vic, and NSW. What they offer is confirmed first team game time. That's what we don't do so that's why we lose ours

[moops]

25 minutes ago, Le Hack said:

Also like yo point out that a lot of their young players don't actually come through their systems or their NPL sides, they poach a lot of them from SA, Qld, Vic, and NSW. What they offer is confirmed first team game time. That's what we don't do so that's why we lose ours

Good point

[belaguttman]

27 minutes ago, Le Hack said:

Also like yo point out that a lot of their young players don't actually come through their systems or their NPL sides, they poach a lot of them from SA, Qld, Vic, and NSW. What they offer is confirmed first team game time. That's what we don't do so that's why we lose ours

Our plan is to develop young players, CCM's is to play young players, it's a different goal with a different outcome

[moops]

1 hour ago, belaguttman said:

Our plan is to develop young players, CCM's is to play young players, it's a different goal with a different outcome

Besides Metcalf and Bos, everyone else came from somewhere else, I don't think we are.

The Nix and Adelaide seem to have very good academies, they have churned out a lot of talent, CCM close behind and Sydney, but like us they don't play them.

Edited July 17 by moops

[fensaddler]

The only thing I'd add here is that one of the unnoticed things about the last couple of months is the young players who have come through to first contract. We seem now to be finding and promoting some really good 16-18 year olds. I suspect some will see the first team soon. This may just be the first fruits from the move to Casey and getting first dibs on local talent. Maybe, just maybe, we are beginning to play the long game on this as CCM have??

[jw1739]

53 minutes ago, fensaddler said:

The only thing I'd add here is that one of the unnoticed things about the last couple of months is the young players who have come through to first contract. We seem now to be finding and promoting some really good 16-18 year olds. I suspect some will see the first team soon. This may just be the first fruits from the move to Casey and getting first dibs on local talent. Maybe, just maybe, we are beginning to play the long game on this as CCM have??

@fensaddler I'm aware of only Memeti - is there anyone else? Mazzeo was 6 months ago, and Caputo was 12 months ago.

[fensaddler]

Necovski is another one, the 16 year old defender. Plus we've got Sulemani back, who should and would have broken through last season. And we've got a very young youth squad who appear to be holding their own in NPL. It seems a few of them look genuine prospects too. We're probably a couple of years behind Victory (who nicked our youth development team anyway) and Western on this, but it does seem like we're starting to see lads coming through.

[jw1739]

44 minutes ago, fensaddler said:

Necovski is another one, the 16 year old defender. Plus we've got Sulemani back, who should and would have broken through last season. And we've got a very young youth squad who appear to be holding their own in NPL. It seems a few of them look genuine prospects too. We're probably a couple of years behind Victory (who nicked our youth development team anyway) and Western on this, but it does seem like we're starting to see lads coming through.

OK. If you count Scholarship contracts, that's a fair call. I think there's been upheaval in the club and the academy has suffered accordingly. Jordy Bos' young brother Kasey Bos was upfront about the move to Casey Fields as the reason he left for Victory.

We need to get into the top NPL division here, as are Central Coast, Sydney and WSW in New South Wales.

[kingofhearts]

8 hours ago, moops said:

CCM did as much business as us and with key players the prior transfer window and it seems this window they are losing the same amount again, though their backline will be decimated this coming season, Hall, Farrell and Kaltac have all been sold I think, Vukovic has retired, Balard has gone to Portugal iirc one of their dm's and Nisbet is gone.

They shouldn't be anywhere near the top with those losses but I wouldn't be surprised, they seem to have their shit together now. I didn't think they would be as good as they were last season, but three men's trophies is a good haul. I wonder if winning the Asian cup if they are automatically in for the Asian champions league and one extra spot is now open for Aussie teams? I have no idea.

We just didn't adapt, we lost key players who brought us certain things and those that replaced them couldn't do the same. But we persisted that they try, instead of tweaking things to better suit what we had. CCM seemed to do that better than us, turning into a strong defensive unit, where they were a lot more attacking before.

 

Losing nabbout and especially leckie last season didn't help. I agree however that over our sustained 3-4 seasons of success we became very top heavy and the team was very vulnerable to perform poorly if a few of our players went out (as we saw last season)

[moops]

4 minutes ago, kingofhearts said:

Losing nabbout and especially leckie last season didn't help. I agree however that over our sustained 3-4 seasons of success we became very top heavy and the team was very vulnerable to perform poorly if a few of our players went out (as we saw last season)

Leckie for sure and that player who shot off after he was coming good for us playing in the dm role, Macca wanting out and playing like it, same as Good. Nabbout was out for pretty much the whole season, it didn't help at all, I'm surprised we gave him another contract, but he would be an experienced head for the group.

[belaguttman]

1 hour ago, fensaddler said:

Necovski is another one, the 16 year old defender. Plus we've got Sulemani back, who should and would have broken through last season. And we've got a very young youth squad who appear to be holding their own in NPL. It seems a few of them look genuine prospects too. We're probably a couple of years behind Victory (who nicked our youth development team anyway) and Western on this, but it does seem like we're starting to see lads coming through.

We have had a stream of young players, apart from Caputo, Mazzeo and to a certain extent, Hall, they've not played and have left

[citypool]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Aleague/comments/1ei34yu/wonderkid_besian_kutleshi_lands_at_home_at/

[jw1739]

People may scoff. but 20 minutes extra drive each way 5 days per week is well over 3 hours per week extra travelling time, and for someone under 18 then he/she has to be driven. This is not a small commitment. 

I'm afraid that I do not resile from the view that the move to Casey was a poor decision from a players', staff and supporters' standpoint. An example of where the accountants' numbers take no account of anything else.