Warren Joyce. As predicted by Serb Hair Dresser.. Goneski

[TheGaffer]

47 minutes ago, Imtellingyou said:

His end product doesn't have market value. It's not watchable and sellable.  When you are third and have empty stadium in otherwise sport's mad Melbourne, that is the sign.

Attendances are down across the league and whilst City have not been big crowd pullers the FFA have sat in their fat arses and failed to promote. Which Einstein decided to play City v Wellington at the same time the two Melbourne BBL were playing each other 400metres away?

[belaguttman]

1 hour ago, Imtellingyou said:

His end product doesn't have market value. It's not watchable and sellable.  When you are third and have empty stadium in otherwise sport's mad Melbourne, that is the sign.

I agree, lok at the smurfs - very successful but Arnold's style is also hard to watch and attendances are poor. It's even worse for us because we've won nothing, and our style is the opposite of CFG's aim for the group. We aren't even attracting those with pre-paid tickets

[jw1739]

22 minutes ago, TheGaffer said:

Attendances are down across the league and whilst City have not been big crowd pullers the FFA have sat in their fat arses and failed to promote. Which Einstein decided to play City v Wellington at the same time the two Melbourne BBL were playing each other 400metres away?

Your question assumes that the BBL schedule was known at the time the A-League fixture was drawn up. Was that in fact the case, or was it the other way around?

[TheGaffer]

15 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

Your question assumes that the BBL schedule was known at the time the A-League fixture was drawn up. Was that in fact the case, or was it the other way around?

Last year the corresponding BBL fixture between the two Melbourne teams was played Saturday Jan 7, 2017 @ Etihad. So if there was any evidence of a brain inside FFA then they should have expected another BBL game on Sat Jan 6th? Then again FFA think that their product is far superior and can withstand the BBL hype. 

BBL fixture for 2017-18 was released by CA on July 31, 2017 so well after A-League.

[Chris p]

We're just so shit to watch, we haven't turned the corner by any means 

[belaguttman]

1 hour ago, Chris p said:

We're just so shit to watch, we haven't turned the corner by any means 

We have if 'turning the corner' means only just beating the bottom team in the League in front of (an optimistic) 5000 people, playing some of the worst football in the League for 60 minutes.

[mattyh001]

2 hours ago, jw1739 said:

Your question assumes that the BBL schedule was known at the time the A-League fixture was drawn up. Was that in fact the case, or was it the other way around?

 

2 hours ago, TheGaffer said:

Last year the corresponding BBL fixture between the two Melbourne teams was played Saturday Jan 7, 2017 @ Etihad. So if there was any evidence of a brain inside FFA then they should have expected another BBL game on Sat Jan 6th? Then again FFA think that their product is far superior and can withstand the BBL hype. 

BBL fixture for 2017-18 was released by CA on July 31, 2017 so well after A-League.

Even where the Big Bash draw is released after ours, there will always be a number of constants

1) a derby is a derby, be it cricket or football. Will always be a major drawer, thereby played Friday or Saturday night. As such, the Sydney and melbourne derbies in the cricket can be expected at certain times. Analytics can probably further clarify rough time lines for the cricket draw

2) as our attendances have been far from massive (so circa point 1) us playing "smaller" supported clubs like Wellington, CCM, etc on a Saturday is begging for trouble

3) you need to have a product that is sellable to the masses, so that when there is a conflict people want to come to your game. No real media promotion and us being shite doesn't help

 

 

As a side note, I've always been shitty when the league has scheduled our home games on the same weekend as the tards home games (and even more annoying on weekends like this on the same day).

Makes it hard for the semi neutral to go to a random game on "their team's" week off, and surely must reduce publicity in and around melbourne during non home game weeks - something our game is begging for

[mus-28]

6 hours ago, belaguttman said:

I agree, lok at the smurfs - very successful but Arnold's style is also hard to watch and attendances are poor. It's even worse for us because we've won nothing, and our style is the opposite of CFG's aim for the group. We aren't even attracting those with pre-paid tickets

I thinks that's a bit of a myth for this season and last. They were the top scorers last season and are the top scorers this season and their attacking 3rd is easily the most fluent in the league and players like Ninkovic and Adrian are precisely what we're missing in out final 3rd. 

[Tesla]

I really don't care about the style of play, all that matters is results, and the results haven't been there. We may be 3rd but that's because the table is a bit unusual at the moment, we're actually closer to 9th than 1st, and it wouldn't take much for us to not make finals. 

 

[belaguttman]

6 hours ago, mus-28 said:

I thinks that's a bit of a myth for this season and last. They were the top scorers last season and are the top scorers this season and their attacking 3rd is easily the most fluent in the league and players like Ninkovic and Adrian are precisely what we're missing in out final 3rd. 

It is a myth, a myth is a story. What isn't in dispute though is that the smurf's crowds were relatively poor last season and haven't improved this season. Neither have their TV ratings, and there's been no big lift in their season ticket sales. Yes, all HAL participation is down but the smurfs are as down as anyones. The football is just not exciting to watch

[kingofhearts]

There's always going to be something else on,  we're in the sporting capital of the world ffs. 

How about focusing first and foremost creating an exciting product people want to come and see again and again? 

[Deeming]

1 hour ago, Tesla said:

I really don't care about the style of play, all that matters is results, and the results haven't been there. We may be 3rd but that's because the table is a bit unusual at the moment, we're actually closer to 9th than 1st, and it wouldn't take much for us to not make finals. 

 

Yeah a bloke at work asked me how we were going and its weird to explain we are playing terrible but are 3rd on the ladder because other than the top 2, the rest of the league is also terrible 

[Kiro Kompiro]

14 hours ago, TheGaffer said:

Attendances are down across the league and whilst City have not been big crowd pullers the FFA have sat in their fat arses and failed to promote. Which Einstein decided to play City v Wellington at the same time the two Melbourne BBL were playing each other 400metres away?

This kind of thinking has to stop.  A-League fans cannot keep blaming the other competitors.  The A-League has had several years head start over the BBL.  We cannot forever look to schedule our games when there is absolutely nothing else on at the same time.  IF in fact this is the reason why attendances are down the problem is with the fans because they are the ones who are prioritising everything else over football or to see a TV ad telling them when the game is on.

[HEARTinator]

This is a copy of a post on the Wigan Athletic Fans Forum, dated Feb 2017.

The question posed to supporters was "Has Warren Joyce been the right choice?" Supporters were just about evenly split in their responses.

(Noting that Joyce was appointed Wigan coach in November 2016 and was sacked in March 2017.)

This post seems to touch on some of the very things that we're discussing and are concerned about. There are other posts that agree that Joyce was a good choice and that he has, for example, "improved the fitness of the squad" and the "team has a better defensive shape off the ball."

****************************************************************************

http://www.wigan.vitalfootball.co.uk/forum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=32600&start=86&highlight=Warren+joyce&highlightmode=1

23 February 2017 15:14 Post ID: #286547 - in reply to #285353

Stuart93 Latics

Denny Landzaat

 

From watching the board before I decided to join I note grip gives and receives a fair amount of criticism. However just to get back on topic.

Like I say I would be interested as to peoples yes votes and the reasons. The main reason for me starting to post was because I was interested in debate and allowing myself to see things from both sides.

So I am open minded and may even agree with some if they raise valid reasons why he was a good choice.

Again my reasons for not.
I feel the style of play has become overly negative against every team in the division not just a team that needs that set up e.g newcastle we play wolves are defensive we play villa don't venture out of our own half. Sheffield wednesday away lucky win they had two blatant penalties denied but we will take the points but again piss poor performance really.

Points total is no better in reality than under caldwell in fact painfully similar and no guarantee we wouldn't of achieved the same.

Provides no inspiration pre game interviews we get all but told to expect to lose the game by how good the opposition is. Post game how unlucky we were your not unlucky losing 90% of the time just bad.

He plays 442 but in reality is a 6 2 1 1 all down the middle.

He signed a multitude of players that were so far away from the first team fitness were a month down the line and they haven't except bogle and tunnicliffe Gilks been put on the pitch for a significant period. Meaning 3/4 of the signings weren't up to scratch.

Like I say I want to create debate and listen to view points other than my own. All I want is good football and to go to a game with a thought other than I wonder how many we will lose by today and not be surprised when we do score a goal.

[HeartOfCity]

8 hours ago, kingofhearts said:

There's always going to be something else on,  we're in the sporting capital of the world ffs. 

How about focusing first and foremost creating an exciting product people want to come and see again and again? 

JVS tried that already

[Jovan]

On 29/12/2017 at 8:53 AM, jw1739 said:

Yes, except that it's us who have lost momentum, with 5 losses in our past 8 matches. That's why I say the six matches in January will make us or break us. We either recover, take say 14 points or so, or continue the slide and take 7-8. The former will see us still in the mix, the latter will see us in mid-table.

So at the halfway point of our 6 game January stint we've got 6 from a possible 9. Now we look at the next 3 Mariners away, Adelaide home and Jets home. 

I've really got not idea. We have won well in our last 2 but to be fair against probably the 2 weakest teams but dropped points to an equally poor side (at the time we played them in Wanderers ) so for me the next 3 games will decide our fate for the season. Maximum points and we close the gap to second to 2 points  (assuming Jets continue winning) but anything less with see us looking over our shoulder and battling to finish in the top 4.

For me the jury is out and after a couple wins my expectations rise and hope returns and who knows maybe I was wrong all along. 

Interesting next 3 games that's for sure. I Love being a City supporter I go from a desperate negative SOB to a delusional dreamer in the space of 90 minutes plus stoppage time. 

[n i k o]

Reality is the win in perth was completely deserved based on chances we created compared to them. Against Wellington not so much as they had two absolute sitter headers in front of bouzanis that they butchered. So we were very fortunate in that game. Sometimes though you need luck to help a turn in momentum and now that we have it anythings possible. However being another away game I'm very skeptical we can back up another away win. 

Edited January 10, 2018 by n i k o

[bt50]

56 minutes ago, Jovan said:

So at the halfway point of our 6 game January stint we've got 6 from a possible 9. Now we look at the next 3 Mariners away, Adelaide home and Jets home. 

I've really got not idea. We have won well in our last 2 but to be fair against probably the 2 weakest teams but dropped points to an equally poor side (at the time we played them in Wanderers ) so for me the next 3 games will decide our fate for the season. Maximum points and we close the gap to second to 2 points  (assuming Jets continue winning) but anything less with see us looking over our shoulder and battling to finish in the top 4.

For me the jury is out and after a couple wins my expectations rise and hope returns and who knows maybe I was wrong all along. 

Interesting next 3 games that's for sure. I Love being a City supporter I go from a desperate negative SOB to a delusional dreamer in the space of 90 minutes plus stoppage time. 

	2011/12	2012/13	2013/14	2014/15	2015/16	2016/17	Ave	MIN	MAX
2nd	49	54	42	50	48	49	48.66667	42	54
3rd	43	44	42	46	48	42	44.16667	42	48
4th	40	41	41	46	44	39	41.83333	39	46

As far as a look at the six seasons of a 27 round 10 team comp goes, these are the finishing points for each of the relevant positions we are looking at aspirationally.

Generally speaking 45 points should be enough to see us clinch 3rd, which would require 20 points from 12 games, being a record of 6-2-4 or 7-0-5, both of which i think are fairly achievable.
Our run home includes everyone once, then CCM, Newy and Adelaide twice (H&A). An extra 4 points would likely see us pinch 2nd, particularly if we can take 4 points from our two Newy fixtures.

Edited January 10, 2018 by bt50

[Dylan]

40 minutes ago, bt50 said:

	2011/12	2012/13	2013/14	2014/15	2015/16	2016/17	Ave	MIN	MAX
2nd	49	54	42	50	48	49	48.66667	42	54
3rd	43	44	42	46	48	42	44.16667	42	48
4th	40	41	41	46	44	39	41.83333	39	46

As far as a look at the six seasons of a 27 round 10 team comp goes, these are the finishing points for each of the relevant positions we are looking at aspirationally.

Generally speaking 45 points should be enough to see us clinch 3rd, which would require 20 points from 12 games, being a record of 6-2-4 or 7-0-5, both of which i think are fairly achievable.
Our run home includes everyone once, then CCM, Newy and Adelaide twice (H&A). An extra 4 points would likely see us pinch 2nd, particularly if we can take 4 points from our two Newy fixtures.

If we pinch second then we have both of these stats to think about..... 4 out of the 5 teams (might be a little different) to win their first 4 games have won the championship and the championship has only been won by the top two teams come end of the season. 

Edited January 10, 2018 by Dylan

[bt50]

1 minute ago, Dylan said:

If we pinch second then remember both of these stats..... 4 out of the 5 teams (might be a little different) to win their first 4 games have won the championship and the championship has only been won by the top two teams come end of the season. 

I think we were the 5th team to win the first four games, and the other four had all won the gf. 2nd no doubt has to be the goal for us, but 3rd would be a bare pass, as it was at the start of the season.

[Dylan]

9 minutes ago, bt50 said:

I think we were the 5th team to win the first four games, and the other four had all won the gf. 2nd no doubt has to be the goal for us, but 3rd would be a bare pass, as it was at the start of the season.

Well if we got an ACL spot you would hope CFG would increase our marquee budget and that next season there are some major changes to the salary cap

Edited January 10, 2018 by Dylan

[jw1739]

1 hour ago, Dylan said:

Well if we got an ACL spot you would hope CFG would increase our marquee budget and that next season there are some major changes to the salary cap

Both our marquees currently have one further season after this one to run on their contracts. 

[bt50]

4 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

Both our marquees currently have one further season after this one to run on their contracts. 

I'm unsure where i read this, but i did read back when he signed that Budzinski's deal was worked so that he'd be under the cap for next season.

Edited January 11, 2018 by bt50

[jw1739]

3 hours ago, Jovan said:

So at the halfway point of our 6 game January stint we've got 6 from a possible 9. Now we look at the next 3 Mariners away, Adelaide home and Jets home. 

I've really got not idea. We have won well in our last 2 but to be fair against probably the 2 weakest teams but dropped points to an equally poor side (at the time we played them in Wanderers ) so for me the next 3 games will decide our fate for the season. Maximum points and we close the gap to second to 2 points  (assuming Jets continue winning) but anything less with see us looking over our shoulder and battling to finish in the top 4.

For me the jury is out and after a couple wins my expectations rise and hope returns and who knows maybe I was wrong all along. 

Interesting next 3 games that's for sure. I Love being a City supporter I go from a desperate negative SOB to a delusional dreamer in the space of 90 minutes plus stoppage time. 

Love it!

Let's not get ahead of ourselves boys - we did this in a couple of seasons gone by and came a cropper both times - one match at a time!

By my calculations in the round just finished we widened the points gap to all clubs beneath us except Wellington and kept pace with the two above so it was a good round for us.

[jw1739]

18 minutes ago, bt50 said:

I'm unsure where i read this, but i did read back when he signed that Budzinski's deal was worked so that he'd be under the cap for next season.

The official news release https://www.a-league.com.au/news/transfer-news-city-sign-new-polish-marquee said the following. IMO there's really only one interpretation.

"Budzinski has signed a two-year marquee deal for the club."

[n i k o]

Good thing about our 4 game winning start is come end of season well go in the record books for one reason or another lol

[bt50]

47 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

The official news release https://www.a-league.com.au/news/transfer-news-city-sign-new-polish-marquee said the following. IMO there's really only one interpretation.

"Budzinski has signed a two-year marquee deal for the club."

I appreciate what you're saying, but i dont think theres actually such a thing as far as the league is concerned as a 'marquee contract', just a player thats allocated to a marquee slot and is then not considered when assessing the salary cap. 

Hence you can sign a player to a front (or rear) ended contract, and manipulate your marquee slots each season. Im pretty sure that Sydney are doing the same with Mirziewski, he's rear ended and will be a marquee next season.

[jw1739]

6 minutes ago, bt50 said:

I appreciate what you're saying, but i dont think theres actually such a thing as far as the league is concerned as a 'marquee contract', just a player thats allocated to a marquee slot and is then not considered when assessing the salary cap. 

Hence you can sign a player to a front (or rear) ended contract, and manipulate your marquee slots each season. Im pretty sure that Sydney are doing the same with Mirziewski, he's rear ended and will be a marquee next season.

The only thing I'll point out is that as I understand it FFA does have to approve marquee players as being such. So I don't think that a club can independently move players around from one category to another. So, for example, if we wanted to move Marcin back under the cap (if we have room) for this season in order to sign another marquee (say Ross), FFA would have to approve that.

[bt50]

2 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

The only thing I'll point out is that as I understand it FFA does have to approve marquee players as being such. So I don't think that a club can independently move players around from one category to another. So, for example, if we wanted to move Marcin back under the cap (if we have room) for this season in order to sign another marquee (say Ross), FFA would have to approve that.

Which makes sense in season if a club is trying to manipulate it. ie Bruno gets paid $1million first half of season as marquee then earns 5k a week for the rest and Ross is the opposite. I think its designed as an integrity measure so you dont have clubs having a different marquee player every week, or that clubs arent unfairly manipulating the system. Im not sure having a player front or rear ended is 'unfairly manipulating' as such, because you carry the risk of a player demanding to leave and your investment going to waste if you can find a buyer (ie Cahill - he was forced to pay himself out, not many players would be willing to do that normally)

[jw1739]

Wazza on Atkinson's contract extension, Arzani, Mauky and Kamau.

https://www.melbournecityfc.com.au/news/warren-joyce-nathaniel-atkinsons-contract-extension

[moops]

Arzani never played, someone's telling him fibs, or that's what he is literally doing.

[malloy]

2 hours ago, moops said:

Arzani never played, someone's telling him fibs, or that's what he is literally doing.

Huh?

[moops]

Arzani played over in Vietnam, just before our season started.

[JMSTEP123]

43 minutes ago, moops said:

Arzani played over in Vietnam, just before our season started.

I believe Joyce made mention of two trips, one of which he did not play. 

[moops]

Maybe in the last one during pre-season, I didn't get to watch any of those matches, but it would surprise me if he didn't get any minutes, so he could be right on that trip.

But the way he said it made it sound like both and in Vietnam he started every game but one and he was subbed on for that as well.

Edited January 12, 2018 by moops

[jw1739]

3 hours ago, moops said:

Maybe in the last one during pre-season, I didn't get to watch any of those matches, but it would surprise me if he didn't get any minutes, so he could be right on that trip.

But the way he said it made it sound like both and in Vietnam he started every game but one and he was subbed on for that as well.

Well, I thought Joyce said the opposite - that Arzani went away but didn't get any minutes - perhaps he said many. and I misheard. Also that Arzani came back from both trips in poor physical condition, and all told he had missed 9 weeks of City training through those trips plus an injury and an illness.

[moops]

15 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

Well, I thought Joyce said the opposite - that Arzani went away but didn't get any minutes - perhaps he said many. and I misheard. Also that Arzani came back from both trips in poor physical condition, and all told he had missed 9 weeks of City training through those trips plus an injury and an illness.

I watched all the Aussie games when they were in Vietnam, he definitely played.

Edited January 13, 2018 by moops

[Shahanga]

51 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

Well, I thought Joyce said the opposite - that Arzani went away but didn't get any minutes - perhaps he said many. and I misheard. Also that Arzani came back from both trips in poor physical condition, and all told he had missed 9 weeks of City training through those trips plus an injury and an illness.

I think Joyce is like most coaches. He is happy to provide disinformation at press conferences if it suits his purposes.

As you’ve mentioned before I think it’s wise not to over analyse what’s said in this circumstances, as it’s pretty hard to tell what’s true and what’s just a smoke screen.

[HughJass]

Funny thing is no one from FFA has come out saying joyce is wrong... 

[bt50]

Managerial history[edit]

See also: List of Melbourne City FC managers

List of Melbourne City managers, with respective records, as of 19 January 2018. Only competitive matches are counted.

From	To	Name	P	W	D	L	F	A	GD	Win %
12 October 2009	5 April 2012	John van 't Schip	58	17	21	20	67	79	−12	29.31
8 May 2012	28 December 2013	John Aloisi	39	8	7	24	19	62	−43	20.51
30 December 2013	3 January 2017	John van 't Schip	96	43	22	31	178	141	+37	44.79
3 January 2017	18 June 2017	Michael Valkanis	12	5	1	6	22	21	+1	41.67
19 June 2017		Warren Joyce	19	10	2	7	26	23	+3	52.63

 

FYI. Interesting that despite our 'incredibly negative' style, Wazza has well and truly passed JA already for goals scored, and also points despite 20 less games in charge.