Home Derby - SAT 17th December 7:50PM

[fensaddler]

5 minutes ago, neio said:

I'm not a Josh rose fan but he had done a very good job on Rojas in 2 previous games so I understand why they started him, and to be fair muscat did no better than him when he came on

No surprise.  Most of the problem was the formation not the players.  Back three is a crap idea.

[Hellenic Hero]

Were the derby specials out in force last night?

[Tony999]

1 minute ago, Hellenic Hero said:

Were the derby specials out in force last night?

Of course. Expect the active area to go back to standard half full next home game.

[Heart of Melbourne]

Empty seats was not a good look for us. Fark this club can't seems to get things right.

[Tony999]

1 minute ago, Heart of Melbourne said:

Empty seats was not a good look for us. Fark this club can't seems to get things right.

Yes they can. Sack JVS and all problems will fix themselves up.

[Harrison]

12 minutes ago, Tony999 said:

Yes they can. Sack JVS and all problems will fix themselves up.

You know I'm actually starting to believe this. In my mind, a new coach will now bring a full AAMI Park every home match, Messi and Hazard as marquees with Hummels and Neuer under the cap, champagne football, a world-record goal difference and a fawning Australian and world media which reports every detail of the club every single day.

Then I wake up and realise that a new coach will probably only bring consistency and crowds slightly above their current average...and I'd be just as fine with that. 

 

[Shahanga]

It was game we could have won that we lost to an offside goal. That's football.

Hurts our chances for the plate, but perhaps more worrisome is our difficulty breaking sides down. Second half we did look more dangerous with Bruno as #10, need to keep doing this.

We cant play matches without a genuine holding midfielder. It's insane and was the main problem last night. Well that and pedestrian ball movement.

I agree with others that Kamau hasnt been the same since his head knock and shouldn't be starting and Brattain hasn't been the same since his call up. Colazo also isn't a midfielder.

As to the subs no way I would have subbed Rose for Muscat, had to be a midfielder and drop Colazo back and blind Freddie could see that Kamau needed to come off earlier. 

[malloy]

Who was Brattan pointing at in the crowd after Cahill scored?

I assume it was a victory fan 'cos this guy loves taking the piss out of opposition fans.

[n i k o]

43 minutes ago, Shahanga said:

It was game we could have won that we lost to an offside goal. That's football.

 

You've missed out on one other eventuality that could have occurred and that is it could have been a game we lost by two or three goals. not just one. 

1 minute ago, malloy said:

Who was Brattan pointing at in the crowd after Cahill scored?

I assume it was a victory fan 'cos this guy loves taking the piss out of opposition fans.

Considering he takes the corners I'd guess a tard was giving him a ripping so he's given it right back to him after we scored. 

[heart_fan10]

we've been playing shit the last couple of matches, hardly created any chances. 

Im still trying to figure out where that intensity has gone that I saw in the first 2 games

[Shahanga]

9 minutes ago, n i k o said:

You've missed out on one other eventuality that could have occurred and that is it could have been a game we lost by two or three goals. not just one. 

Well Bruno & Cahill came bloody close to scoring too, so we could have won by more than one. Can't just count their misses "as goals" and not ours.

My main point was I thought the game was very close.

[jeffplz]

Why don't Bruno and Cahill work? They both had about 3 solid fucking shots that should've went in.

[n i k o]

4 minutes ago, Shahanga said:

Well Bruno & Cahill came bloody close to scoring too, so we could have won by more than one. Can't just count their misses "as goals" and not ours.

My main point was I thought the game was very close.

The game was close. But not in clear cut chances. Our chances were difficult volleys that I'd consider half chances. They had 3 one on ones with the keeper. Sorry but there's no comparison between their chances and ours. 

[Harrison]

Berisha of old would have buried all of his chances. We were lucky in that respect. 

But a back three, with only one proper CB (a second gamer) is suicide against Victory's attack. Hopelessly beaten through the midfield and Rose was targeted at every opportunity. 

[jw1739]

"Should've," "would've" and "might've" don't count. "Did" are the ones that count.

But don't get me wrong. Football is about winning, drawing and losing. That's life, and when the final whistle is blown the match is over and we move on. But I am just so fed up with hearing and seeing the same stuff repeated over and over and over again. Perhaps even more so now that we've won the FFA Cup by getting the selections right, the substitutions right, the game plan right and the execution right. How now just three matches later can we get it so wrong?

[playmaker]

This doesn't sit right with me.

[n i k o]

Waiting for the next standard JVS blow up where he goes all tough and starts dropping players and we go on a small streak and everyone gets up and about and excited and Donald comes on here again harping on about how good JVS is. 

[fensaddler]

Part of our problem is the lack of a consistent defensive selection.  Defences work as a unit, and need to be familiar with each other.  In an ideal world, when fit, three of our best four defence pick themselves - Jakobsen, Tongyik and Franjic.  Playing Colazo at LB would then for me be the best solution, though it does mean we lose him further forward, where IMHO we're picking Fitzy because Kamau is not at the races right now.

[The Aardvark]

On Fornaroli, and this might be odd after all the recent discussion about diving, but is him going down when fouled hurting his game?

I know he does get continually fouled, and I am not saying he goes down too easy or overplays it. I am sympathetic to the viewpoint that he does it to make sure the fouls do get called on him, and that's fine.

But is it hurting his game? Yesterday Victory fouled him almost every time he got the ball, leading to a shitload of frees for. The issue to me is that knowing Fornaroli will fall and take the foul every time you get slightly physical with him, is that an easy out to tell your defenders to foul him and concede the non-dangerous free instead of allowing him to take the space and create something with it.

As it stands the vast majority of his possession is either dribbling the ball for 5m and drawing a foul within 15m of the halfway line, or non-clean possession around the box with 2 or 3 defenders right on him.

My suggestion is that instead of falling and taking the foul everytime as he does now, that even when fouled he fights to continue with the ball. Basically never drop when tackled unless they legit take hi legs out from underneath him. It might mean we stuff it up half the time (although there is still a chance the ref will call no advantage, but it means defenders can't afford to constantly give away little non-yellow card fouls as they won't stop him in his tracks anymore, and it means when Bruno gets the ball instead of it being a simple count down to him drawing the foul we actually have a chance of him breaking out and doing something dangerous with it.

Basically I want see Bruno doing everything he can to stay on his feet and leave the foul in his wake instead of cashing in a shitty freekick that almost always amounts to nothing.

 

[KSK_47]

7 minutes ago, n i k o said:

Waiting for the next standard JVS blow up where he goes all tough and starts dropping players and we go on a small streak and everyone gets up and about and excited and Donald comes on here again harping on about how good JVS is. 

This. 

 

[Shahanga]

8 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

"Should've," "would've" and "might've" don't count. "Did" are the ones that count.

But don't get me wrong. Football is about winning, drawing and losing. That's life, and when the final whistle is blown the match is over and we move on. But I am just so fed up with hearing and seeing the same stuff repeated over and over and over again. Perhaps even more so now that we've won the FFA Cup by getting the selections right, the substitutions right, the game plan right and the execution right. How now just three matches later can we get it so wrong?

Actually I agree.

In my view we played ok, it's just some key decisions by the gaffer brought us unstuck. In the first half the midfield structure was horrible (rose was hung out to dry basically) & in the second the use of subs was poor.  

[jw1739]

29 minutes ago, fensaddler said:

Part of our problem is the lack of a consistent defensive selection.  Defences work as a unit, and need to be familiar with each other.  In an ideal world, when fit, three of our best four defence pick themselves - Jakobsen, Tongyik and Franjic.  Playing Colazo at LB would then for me be the best solution, though it does mean we lose him further forward, where IMHO we're picking Fitzy because Kamau is not at the races right now.

Definitely agree. Back four of Franjic, Tongyik, Jakobsen and Colazo. At least with a back 4 you can sometimes let Colazo go on the overlap and get crosses into the box. With a back 3 you can't. 

[Geo400]

Mentioned this last night, but our players lack of awareness was infuriating, it was like they thought they were up against the Mariners and would have an age to pass the ball when they received it. Lost count of the amount of times the MV players would just swarm our players and dispose them of the ball, you would think after the first 10-15 mins they would work out the opposition is up for the game, worst yet we do this in the backhalf as well with cute little touches, at least once a game bouzanis will attempt to dribble the opposing striker, suicide passes across goal and back to the keeper when all it needs is a big lump up the field. Does jvs think this is good football? When my centre half has the ball and the passing angles are closed off and the opposition are closing him down I want it played long up the field and from that resulting long ball I want someone challenging for it in the air and then our players swarming to pick up the loose ball, not trying to pick out a short pass that has a success ratio of about 5% from the edge of our box, same as our full backs if nothing is on launch it long up the line instead of dwelling on it (see kamau for goal 2). I want my team moving the ball from one side of the field to the other as quickly as possible with the longer option taken when the short ball isn't on.

i hate MV, rubbish team but I admit I'm jealous at how they manage to keep the game simple and they get the rewards from it. No back passes to the keeper unless it's an absolute must, players receiving the ball in the middle of the park and turning straight for goal instead of being cute trying to ride challenges and laying off a pass backwards.

the mentatility of the 2 teams is night and day, and it really sucks how superior we are player for player.

you can't convince me jvs isn't responsible for the above.

[jw1739]

1 hour ago, The Aardvark said:

On Fornaroli, and this might be odd after all the recent discussion about diving, but is him going down when fouled hurting his game?

I know he does get continually fouled, and I am not saying he goes down too easy or overplays it. I am sympathetic to the viewpoint that he does it to make sure the fouls do get called on him, and that's fine.

But is it hurting his game? Yesterday Victory fouled him almost every time he got the ball, leading to a shitload of frees for. The issue to me is that knowing Fornaroli will fall and take the foul every time you get slightly physical with him, is that an easy out to tell your defenders to foul him and concede the non-dangerous free instead of allowing him to take the space and create something with it.

As it stands the vast majority of his possession is either dribbling the ball for 5m and drawing a foul within 15m of the halfway line, or non-clean possession around the box with 2 or 3 defenders right on him.

My suggestion is that instead of falling and taking the foul everytime as he does now, that even when fouled he fights to continue with the ball. Basically never drop when tackled unless they legit take hi legs out from underneath him. It might mean we stuff it up half the time (although there is still a chance the ref will call no advantage, but it means defenders can't afford to constantly give away little non-yellow card fouls as they won't stop him in his tracks anymore, and it means when Bruno gets the ball instead of it being a simple count down to him drawing the foul we actually have a chance of him breaking out and doing something dangerous with it.

Basically I want see Bruno doing everything he can to stay on his feet and leave the foul in his wake instead of cashing in a shitty freekick that almost always amounts to nothing.

IMO there are two things that are weighing too heavily on Bruno. The first is the captaincy, and the second is Cahill. With the captaincy I'd sit down with him, explain the situation, and appoint a vice-captain/co-captain who would take the arm-band for a few matches, and tell Bruno to stay right away from the referee - he's got four cards already. Yes I would be telling him to stay on his feet as much as he can, but also to stop trying to beat the second man all the time - lay off the pass. And I also feel he is playing too straight down the middle at the moment - he needs to drift left and right much more. With Cahill, well I don't think he and Bruno should be on the field at the same time. Full stop. Bruno doesn't look as though he's enjoying his football any more, and he's always said that that's the reason he plays. So take the weight off his shoulders.

The other thing I'd be doing quick smart is telling players like Brattan and Kilkenny to have more cracks at goal - this is where Mooy was so good, both creator and taker, and some matches we are hardly putting any pressure on the opposition GK.

Together with what Geo400 discusses above IMO making a few simple changes to what we do would go a hell of a long way. The fans who sit around me are equally frustrated and bemused at how predictably sterile our play has become, and the lack of faith in our capacity to win is palpable. 

 

[n i k o]

2 hours ago, The Aardvark said:

 

As it stands the vast majority of his possession is either dribbling the ball for 5m and drawing a foul within 15m of the halfway line, or non-clean possession around the box with 2 or 3 defenders right on him.

 

Fair suggestions. For me though its a question of why. Why is the most dangerous players in the league and most fouled player in the league having to pick up the ball 15m from the half way line? Why is he having to pick it up near the half way line on the wing?

It's plain as day that he needs to be picking up the ball in and around the penalty box. 

[Hellenic Hero]

Who won the battle of the stands?

[Tony999]

7 minutes ago, Hellenic Hero said:

Who won the battle of the stands?

The Mariners with their brass band.

[Thrillhouse]

4 hours ago, malloy said:

Who was Brattan pointing at in the crowd after Cahill scored?

I assume it was a victory fan 'cos this guy loves taking the piss out of opposition fans.

went to take a corner and some cockhead was giving it to him so he gave a thumbs up back
then when we scored bratten let him have it 

[Heart of Melbourne]

Worst weekend. Even Brisbane is on top of us. Fuck. Where's the shkiek

[belaguttman]

6 hours ago, Shahanga said:

Actually I agree.

In my view we played ok, it's just some key decisions by the gaffer brought us unstuck. In the first half the midfield structure was horrible (rose was hung out to dry basically) & in the second the use of subs was poor.  

Agree, Rose has never had a good game in a back three but in this game he was basically left to defend the whole side of the park on his own

1 hour ago, Heart of Melbourne said:

Worst weekend. Even Brisbane is on top of us. Fuck. Where's the shkiek

We're where we deserve to be after the last 4 games

[Tarafu]

anyone know what that banner was at level 3 at full time?

[n i k o]

So at what round will JVS desist from saying we have plenty of time to go in the season and that it's a long way to the end. We're almost at the half way point so when does the panic set in that we are running out of opportunities to catch up to Sydney. When does the "learning and improving" turn into winning. Fucking never with this guy that's when. 

[jw1739]

8 hours ago, n i k o said:

So at what round will JVS desist from saying we have plenty of time to go in the season and that it's a long way to the end. We're almost at the half way point so when does the panic set in that we are running out of opportunities to catch up to Sydney. When does the "learning and improving" turn into winning. Fucking never with this guy that's when. 

And when does he stop saying that we're improving all the time (we're getting worse), that we've got players coming in (we're probably better placed with injuries than we've ever been) that we've got so many new players in the squad (that's because you couldn't manage the last lot, and anyway we have the longest pre-season in the world) etc. etc. The club's PR treats us as if we're all stupid. Sick of it.

[Hellenic Hero]

Work is shit today. Been given crap by about 11 Victory fans.

[KSK_47]

8 hours ago, n i k o said:

So at what round will JVS desist from saying we have plenty of time to go in the season and that it's a long way to the end. We're almost at the half way point so when does the panic set in that we are running out of opportunities to catch up to Sydney. When does the "learning and improving" turn into winning. Fucking never with this guy that's when. 

He has been saying it for 5 seasons so i am guessing never

[n i k o]

1 minute ago, KSK_47 said:

He has been saying it for 5 seasons so i am guessing never

I know. Unfortunately it still doesn't blow over for me.

[KSK_47]

9 minutes ago, n i k o said:

I know. Unfortunately it still doesn't blow over for me.

Me either. But i have got to the point i don't even listen to what he says any more. All i hear is "we had good possession... Blah blah blah. Still learning... Blah blah blah. Im a stupid moron with an ugly face and a big butt and my butt smells. And i like to kiss my own butt"

Edited December 18, 2016 by KSK_47

[n i k o]

Just now, KSK_47 said:

Me either. But i have got to the point i am don't even listen to what he says any more. All i hear is "we had good possession... Blah blah blah. Still learning... Blah blah blah. Im a stupid moron with an ugly face and a big butt and my butt smells. And i like to kiss my own butt"

Very true and I'd say I've got to that same point as you a long time back. Just that something about losing that game and JVS response has got me triggered. 

[KSK_47]

53 minutes ago, n i k o said:

Very true and I'd say I've got to that same point as you a long time back. Just that something about losing that game and JVS response has got me triggered. 

Yeah this one has annoyed me more than most. I think its because after winning silverware i hoped something would change in him. But nope. 

[n i k o]

2 minutes ago, KSK_47 said:

Yeah this one has annoyed me more than most. I think its because after winning silverware i hoped something would change in him. But nope. 

Yep it's that. Its also that the tards are above us with a game in hand. That fuckwit Aloisi and Brisbane is above us as well and Sydney smashed Perth and put more of a gap between us and them.