Jump to content
Melbourne Football

42nd Melbourne Derby 17/12 7.45 pm


Le Hack
 Share

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, rass said:

Does it matter though? They were part of the Victory active group.

Victory have had a long time to get it right and ultimately haven't been able to control their fans. In the end, the club has to take the responsibility, members or not.

If they were members then the club has details and is able to control it. If they were not Active members then it is unlikely that the club would have details. So the question arises as to how they were able to access the Active area (assuming that all of those who did jump the fence, jumped from the Active area): were they there under a false alias or didn't security check their bona fides adequately? And this would apply to all clubs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

58 minutes ago, rass said:

Does it matter though? They were part of the Victory active group.

Victory have had a long time to get it right and ultimately haven't been able to control their fans. In the end, the club has to take the responsibility, members or not.

I get where you're coming and agree. Even victory members that are closer to the club/active support agree that there have been many incidents that the club has failed to fully address. 

I also think @NewConvert has a point in wanting to know that information regarding those involved being members. It doesn't seem like much but separating actual paying members and potential banned members at the very least shows a few things....

1) The club/sport has acted already in the past and doesn't tolerate these thugs. They are not members. Nobodies that come to cause trouble. 

2) The responsibility slightly shifts to the stadium security rather than the sport. 

3) The period of time from when they were banned to this game can suggest this trouble happens only when these thugs are there. So it's not present at every game. 

4) We need to distance all the good members and football people from these thugs as far as possible. Every opportunity we can get needs to be used to do so imo. 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Have I missed something. 

Anyone can get an active ticket. And if not, its pretty easy to just get into active on a derby day.

This entire lifetime ban is just horeshit, means nothing and is un enforceable under current settings. 

So it really means little if 200 idiots get bans, until people face the courts this is just show.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Jovan said:

Have I missed something. 

Anyone can get an active ticket. And if not, its pretty easy to just get into active on a derby day.

This entire lifetime ban is just horeshit, means nothing and is un enforceable under current settings. 

So it really means little if 200 idiots get bans, until people face the courts this is just show.

I think that this is what we are working ourselves to. Bans are only effective if they are enforced and policed. Which is why I suggested that people who are banned have to report to Mildura police Friday evenings and Saturday/Sunday afternoons. No time for the thugs to get back to a sporting venue.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Jovan said:

Have I missed something. 

Anyone can get an active ticket. And if not, its pretty easy to just get into active on a derby day.

This entire lifetime ban is just horeshit, means nothing and is un enforceable under current settings. 

So it really means little if 200 idiots get bans, until people face the courts this is just show.

Yep. Sounds great but how do you police it? Fine if you're playing at a high tech stadium that uses advanced facial recognition. But how do you keep them out of a suburban NPL game or at Fed Square as part of a bumper crowd? Because they're just as good at causing trouble there as they are at an A League derby.

They need criminal records and some jail time. Might be unrealistic with the way our justice system works, but it's the only way to deter them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, rass said:

Yep. Sounds great but how do you police it? Fine if you're playing at a high tech stadium that uses advanced facial recognition. But how do you keep them out of a suburban NPL game or at Fed Square as part of a bumper crowd? Because they're just as good at causing trouble there as they are at an A League derby.

They need criminal records and some jail time. Might be unrealistic with the way our justice system works, but it's the only way to deter them.

Unfortunately it is unrealistic. Just because someone steals a chocolate bar from a shop doesn't mean that the person can never enter any shop ever again.

A-League clubs can deal only with their members. I don't believe that you can extrapolate that. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Also, whilst the majority of those fukwits are just straight out thugs, sadly there are a few kids in there too, most probably quite impressionable at that. For humanity's sake, you'd like to believe they're regretting their actions and might actually learn from this. For these kids, who a few probably play for clubs, you'd think that being banned from playing and being involved would be a massive punishment. Playing and registering for a club would be much easier to police.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I listened to a bit, but I don't have the time to listen all the way through. To me the solution is quite simple. Finish with active support groups and defined "active" areas, and allocate the seats behind the goal to families, age pensioners, whatever. We can't control what  Victory do as a club, but we can control what we do, and should, because there is an unsavoury element in our own "active" that is not helpful in growing our club. Our club is silent so far, and letting Victory take the heat, even though our supporters were throwing flares as well, and this is just weak-kneed and sitting on our hands. 

At least do what we can to lead the way, and after that ground security and if necessary the police can become involved if what we do is not sufficient.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Simple solution is that Active groups should be bound to behave in accordance with a a code of conduct.  If they breach these codes, penalties could range from removed privileges, to active being shut down, all the way through to actual team penalties (loss of points, and behind closed door mateches).  Anyone who is an active member should have to agree to the code of conduct.  Also, each Active should have leaders, recognised by the club and the league.   

As much as active members like to think they are independent from the club and matchday rules, they aren't.  They are simply one part of the crowd.  Their behaviour should be reflective of a family friendly atmosphere, not hostile chants and aggressive actions

 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, citypool said:

Why did yarraside disband? They were fun as back in the day 

They got older, and will oneday become the pensioners sitting behind the goals waving their scarves or colostomy bags.

Edited by Jovan
  • Like 2
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, Torn Asunder said:

Simple solution is that Active groups should be bound to behave in accordance with a a code of conduct.  If they breach these codes, penalties could range from removed privileges, to active being shut down, all the way through to actual team penalties (loss of points, and behind closed door mateches).  Anyone who is an active member should have to agree to the code of conduct.  Also, each Active should have leaders, recognised by the club and the league.   

As much as active members like to think they are independent from the club and matchday rules, they aren't.  They are simply one part of the crowd.  Their behaviour should be reflective of a family friendly atmosphere, not hostile chants and aggressive actions

 

I still don't understand this entire discussion regarding acive support and what should be done. 

To me this is purely a police/legal matter and has really nothing to do with the club or even the stadium. 

As far as I'm aware, throwing a flare at a sporting event or using a flare in anyway other than it was intended is illegal.

Entering the playing arena is illegal. 

Willful breaking off chairs etc is illegal. 

Hitting someone over the head with a metal bucket is illegal. 

All of these offences should be prosecuted and if guilty the offenders should face the full consequences. 

2022 now 2023 surely stadium security should be at a level where every flare thrown should be captured and the offenders with a little bit of work should be found.

It will only take a few 10k fines and a few prison sentences for assault to completely eradicate the thugs.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, moops said:

I must say the reporting has been pretty tame compared to previous years, maybe because Ten have the rights to games? But I was expecting a lot worse tbh.

I think it's do with all the clubs protesting the APL decision so can see where the anger came from so wasn't your "regular soccer incident" 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, NewConvert said:

So the question arises as to how they were able to access the Active area (assuming that all of those who did jump the fence, jumped from the Active area): were they there under a false alias or didn't security check their bona fides adequately? And this would apply to all clubs.

Also how do they get those banned Horda fence banners in the ground? Do they just walk in with them every game, set them up and none of the club officials ever notice?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, KSK_47 said:

Also how do they get those banned Horda fence banners in the ground? Do they just walk in with them every game, set them up and none of the club officials ever notice?

When was the last time that you were checked for your ticket or membership pass once you clicked over the turnstile? I haven't been checked for years. Most of the time the AAMI Park staff are hanging around in the concourse looking bored, and those supposed to be by the steps to your section are watching the pre-match. Anyway, once you're inside you can go to almost anywhere without being checked, sit in a vacant seat and you have to move only if someone comes to claim it.

Whole thing's a farce. The truth is neither FA nor APL have a fucking clue about what actually happens.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

No active or away end for our games.

"Football Australia is also reviewing the conduct of some Melbourne City supporters at the Melbourne Derby. In the meantime, for Melbourne City FC home matches, Football Australia has also directed the APL to cordon off the home and away active bays until otherwise advised."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, HughJass said:

I think it's do with all the clubs protesting the APL decision so can see where the anger came from so wasn't your "regular soccer incident" 

There would have been no consideration like that in the past, it's all been pretty level headed and fact based. I welcome the change, I was wondering if the STAN (seven, ten and nine) conglomerate has a thing of looking out for each other.

I saw a series of posts from Joey Lynch who has been writing about football for ages now, there seems to have been some ruffling of the feathers, there were a bunch of other journalists saying he wasn't welcome in their fraternity and wouldn't be given access/insider knowledge to stories. I don't know what it was about, he wrote something they didn't like, but it's that kind of engineering of a narrative that I mean.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, haz said:

No active or away end for our games.

"Football Australia is also reviewing the conduct of some Melbourne City supporters at the Melbourne Derby. In the meantime, for Melbourne City FC home matches, Football Australia has also directed the APL to cordon off the home and away active bays until otherwise advised."

I understand it all as far as it goes, but where will active members actually go? They don't have allocated seats elsewhere, and if they go to GA active will just gather, de facto, at the North End. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-7---the-duration-of-the-match

As a general interpretation of this rule my understanding is that if the abandonment is deemed to be caused by the actions of one of the clubs or its supporters then the match is awarded to the other club. But the decision is ultimately up to "the competition rules or organisers."

I would have thought that Football Australia or APL would have had such rules in place, but the delay suggests that this may not be the case.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, jw1739 said:

https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-7---the-duration-of-the-match

As a general interpretation of this rule my understanding is that if the abandonment is deemed to be caused by the actions of one of the clubs or its supporters then the match is awarded to the other club. But the decision is ultimately up to "the competition rules or organisers."

I would have thought that Football Australia or APL would have had such rules in place, but the delay suggests that this may not be the case.

Give us a 3-0 walkover as the punishments handed out for Victory has hardly hampered their season! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, jw1739 said:

https://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-7---the-duration-of-the-match

As a general interpretation of this rule my understanding is that if the abandonment is deemed to be caused by the actions of one of the clubs or its supporters then the match is awarded to the other club. But the decision is ultimately up to "the competition rules or organisers."

I would have thought that Football Australia or APL would have had such rules in place, but the delay suggests that this may not be the case.

Perhaps we do have rules indicating a 3-0 win but didn’t Alex King suspend play first for the flares at our end? Might cloud a clear decision here.

Then again, it’s commercials first for the APL.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

Has there been any further news on this match? Is it going to be replayed or what?

Nope, but Id doubt they would replay it, just asking for another 500 or so fools to engage in idiotic behaviour. (500 is based on both terraces).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Somebody on Facebook just posted that Victory is offering sweet maker free double game passes for the banned active members. This tells me that this club knows it will be allowed to bring active fans back later in the season, meaning playing behind doors isn’t considered as a punishment for them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Mr MO said:

Somebody on Facebook just posted that Victory is offering sweet maker free double game passes for the banned active members. This tells me that this club knows it will be allowed to bring active fans back later in the season, meaning playing behind doors isn’t considered as a punishment for them.

In the AFL when Carlton was rightfully and correctly punished for salary cap breaches it sent them in a tail spin that has taken them 20 years to recover from. Since then the punishments to clubs have been much milder, after all what is the point of punishing a club so hard that it folds? and regrettably MVC have the largest membership base. Hence the punishment may be of a different nature.

Adding to the complexity is that one of the fans that has fled the country was already banned - so how did he get in?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, NewConvert said:

In the AFL when Carlton was rightfully and correctly punished for salary cap breaches it sent them in a tail spin that has taken them 20 years to recover from. Since then the punishments to clubs have been much milder, after all what is the point of punishing a club so hard that it folds? and regrettably MVC have the largest membership base. Hence the punishment may be of a different nature.

Adding to the complexity is that one of the fans that has fled the country was already banned - so how did he get in?

Tickets and memberships are fully transferable and there is no visual or other i.d. check on entry.

I can't see how anyone can be "banned." And that would apply not just to football but to many so-called "entertainments." Especially in these days of purchases made on-line.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, jw1739 said:

Tickets and memberships are fully transferable and there is no visual or other i.d. check on entry.

I can't see how anyone can be "banned." And that would apply not just to football but to many so-called "entertainments." Especially in these days of purchases made on-line.

This is so true. Not sure how to go about ensuring that banned fans can be kept out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...