Jump to content
Melbourne Football

42nd Melbourne Derby 17/12 7.45 pm


Le Hack
 Share

Recommended Posts

3 minutes ago, neio said:

I will be staggered if we don't get the 3 points.

Glover is not the problem here either, he doesn't help at all I'll admit that and he probably has a few games on the sidelines but I wouldn't want to be in his shoes 10 metres in front of these dickheads back turned as flares are coming his way. We also weren't perfect with throwing flares but I don't think any were particularly close to Izzo and he also hasn't left the ground with a concussion.

Both teams will have some sanctions, ours will be very minor compared to them though, but I suspect that's the last derby with fans for a while 

 

I've heard Victory could have their license taken off them. Most likely all their sponsors will pull out and the supporter outrage on Facebook is huge! There may not be much if any of a victory left after all this... 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was firmly against the anti hool/active policies of the past and the hidden security but now I think the active areas have disrespected the game, actually violated it so much that I don't care if they knuckle down and police the crap out of it. All those anti corporate protestors too can wake up, the game has no money, the owners are bleeding not you, they have a right to recoup, the also have a massive obligation to listen to their fans and they stumble badly there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, rass said:

Reading a lot of stuff online, it truly amazes me how people are blaming Glover for starting this. 

How many people went to Fed Square for the Aus v Arg game? It was full of young dickheads lighting flare after flare and then just throwing them into the crowd. But that's ok right? Wouldn't be a stretch to suggest most of those people were also part of the mob who stormed the pitch tonight. 

Also, where did all those hoons get those white sticks they were throwing on the ground when they finally got kicked out? They just happened to have them in their hands did they? Glover put them there did he?

Yeah it was dumb throwing the flare back, but those fukheads were obviously going to do it anyway.

What a sad, feral society we have become.

Ask yourself this question. If Glover has quietly picked up the flare and put it in the bucket would there have been a riot?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, kiko said:

I was firmly against the anti hool/active policies of the past and the hidden security but now I think the active areas have disrespected the game, actually violated it so much that I don't care if they knuckle down and police the crap out of it. All those anti corporate protestors too can wake up, the game has no money, the owners are bleeding not you, they have a right to recoup, the also have a massive obligation to listen to their fans and they stumble badly there.

The game has no money? This report, issued just one week before the announcement of the sale of the Grand Final, doesn't have a hint of a shadow hanging over finances: https://keepup.com.au/news/apl-releases-its-inaugural-two-year-report-here-comes-the-future

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, TheStig said:

Ask yourself this question. If Glover has quietly picked up the flare and put it in the bucket would there have been a riot?

For sure. If not last night, then another night. Was it dumb from Glover? Absolutely. But thinking he caused it is probably the most naive thing I've ever heard. 

... And I've come to the realisation that as disgusting as the decision was from the APL, it wasn't the reason for last night either. They could have made such a powerful statement together if they wanted to. But they went for violence instead.

They're triggers, not the cause. 

Look at the scenes from last night. Thugs wearing masks grabbing pieces from the advertising boards as they're invading the pitch.

So ask yourself this, would you go to a game hiding behind a ski mask if your intention was to make a peaceful walk out protest?

This has been brewing for years and years. Only a few months ago that same group went to a local npl match to cause trouble.. and found it.

Pigs looking for trouble, just waiting for a spark to start it. 

..and then jumping online to play the victim? Well that's just as cowardly as hiding behind masks.

  • Like 4
  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, TheStig said:

Ask yourself this question. If Glover has quietly picked up the flare and put it in the bucket would there have been a riot?

I think Glover has to be sanctioned. But really, I don't think anyone - APL, AAMI Park, Security, City or Victory - got themselves properly prepared for this match. Melbourne was going to be the flashpoint and no-one did enough.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks JW a very interesting report, but club owners are bleeding money, always have, the Western United doco revealed they were losing $4.5m a year. My position is this: give fans an opportunity to buy into the club model, maybe make it a 50 +1  ownership model as in Bundesliga, but who amongst us is going to fork out cash knowing it'll be gone in 3-4 years? In reality it's probably not going to work right? That's why this private ownership model is the best we have got, Heart owners only made their money back after City Group paid a nice price to buy in, and they are propping it up too, so this Silver Lake money $140m across 12 clubs, how long is it going to last and what do they intend to invest in to grow their revenues? Okay so no money is probably not accurate but when nearly every club every year is making multi million dollar losses it's not hard to see why certain decisions are made.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, kiko said:

Thanks JW a very interesting report, but club owners are bleeding money, always have, the Western United doco revealed they were losing $4.5m a year. My position is this: give fans an opportunity to buy into the club model, maybe make it a 50 +1  ownership model as in Bundesliga, but who amongst us is going to fork out cash knowing it'll be gone in 3-4 years? In reality it's probably not going to work right? That's why this private ownership model is the best we have got, Heart owners only made their money back after City Group paid a nice price to buy in, and they are propping it up too, so this Silver Lake money $140m across 12 clubs, how long is it going to last and what do they intend to invest in to grow their revenues? Okay so no money is probably not accurate but when nearly every club every year is making multi million dollar losses it's not hard to see why certain decisions are made.

No argument with you. The issue is transparency. Indeed, what is being done with the $140m from Silver Lake? No different from your local council, State government, Commonwealth Government etc. etc. - massive expenditures and you can't see anything, or much, from it all.

APL itself? What's the management structure? How much are these guys getting paid in salaries and expenses? Where is all the money going? Did we just double up on Football Australia?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

44 minutes ago, TheStig said:

Ask yourself this question. If Glover has quietly picked up the flare and put it in the bucket would there have been a riot?

Exactly right.

I blame glover more then the vuck fans. He should've known better then to rile up the crowd and throw the flare back at them. The vuck fans were simply defending themselves.

He can enjoy the long holiday that the ffa are about to give him. I'm hearing a 7-8 week suspension for "inciting crowd violence "

Link to comment
Share on other sites

54 minutes ago, TheStig said:

Ask yourself this question. If Glover has quietly picked up the flare and put it in the bucket would there have been a riot?

Yes.

The young men in front of me in the home end were clearly agitated and waiting to see “something”. 
That pitch invasion was obviously pre-planned and these blokes knew that it (or something similar) was going to happen. 

Edited by Shahanga
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, malloy said:

The pitch invasion was pre-planned, numerous MVFC supporters with life bans were in attendance with their OSM pals. There was a reason why they all didn't walk out on 20 mins. If you watch the side angle of the video where Gliver throws the flare you can see some of them already starting to go over the fence and security moving in prior to the flare being thrown into the NT.

Glover fucked up, n should be punished for that, but he can't be blamed for something that OSM planned to do.

EXACTLY!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't see how anyone can be "banned." It's a nonsense. No-one is asked for an Identity check and I don't see how one can be enforced without driving more and more people away from the game.

I also want to see different admission gates for club members - I've asked for this for a while. It's insulting to treat people as if they are criminals with metal detectors and bag checks - we just want to watch a bloody football match.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, jw1739 said:

The game has no money? This report, issued just one week before the announcement of the sale of the Grand Final, doesn't have a hint of a shadow hanging over finances: https://keepup.com.au/news/apl-releases-its-inaugural-two-year-report-here-comes-the-future

And weren't Australia and the clubs due to get a huge cash windfall from their progression in the World Cup? What happened to that? 

1 hour ago, kiko said:

Thanks JW a very interesting report, but club owners are bleeding money, always have, the Western United doco revealed they were losing $4.5m a year. My position is this: give fans an opportunity to buy into the club model, maybe make it a 50 +1  ownership model as in Bundesliga, but who amongst us is going to fork out cash knowing it'll be gone in 3-4 years? In reality it's probably not going to work right? That's why this private ownership model is the best we have got, Heart owners only made their money back after City Group paid a nice price to buy in, and they are propping it up too, so this Silver Lake money $140m across 12 clubs, how long is it going to last and what do they intend to invest in to grow their revenues? Okay so no money is probably not accurate but when nearly every club every year is making multi million dollar losses it's not hard to see why certain decisions are made.

There is an argument to say that the membership based model is the best solution for Australia. look at the AFL clubs which are membership based. It must be something peculiar to our culture. Seems to have worked ok for the Germans too.   

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think JW is right a separate gate for active which can be done pretty easily at AAMI and then a separate styled m/ship card to get into the area (photo ID on it probably) and then yes TornUnder those 3 things as well. Last night was not the end of football in this country it was possibly the end of active and to be honest to lose it and keep football is probably a sacrifice the administrators of the game will take.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

50 minutes ago, kiko said:

TheStig I hope it works, I just ask myself if the club asked us 9K members to fork out $500-$1000 and lock it away for 20-25 years to ensure the survival of the club how many of us would do it? I'd probably just scrape in at $500

I think we have to go for a hybrid, and I think foreign ownership should be limited. I was an enthusiastic supporter of the takeover of Heart by CFG. At the time it was still only an 80% (or thereabouts) majority share, and the rest was still local, and also we were only the second actual playing club at the time (the other being Manchester City - New York City existed but had not yet started to play). Now we are wholly owned, just one of 12 clubs, and pretty much the bottom of that pile. It's not a good feeling for any of us.

When Heart was formed there was talk of allowing members to take a share, but the talk never came to any fruition. At the time I would have gladly put up my money for a share. Return on investment doesn't have to always be money - it can bring reward in all sorts of ways. Home renovation is often not actually necessary, but the reward comes in comfort. And your life becomes more fulfilling and therefore your overall health and attitudes tend to improve. Such I believe it would have been with Heart. To be at AAMI in the Heart years was just so different from what it is today.

There's a lot of anger in Australia at the moment. We see that reflected in many ways, and IMO last night was an example of that. Interesting too that @Torn Asunder rates the active supporters of the four "big city" clubs as the ones on the wrong path. Doesn't surprise me that that's where the anger shows.

And it must be addressed, but I think it must be addressed not only at the fan level. I don't think that being necessarily "big" is the answer. The EPL still has relatively "small" clubs who are competitive and keep the game alive and kicking. Bournemouth (just 11,000 capacity at their home ground), Brighton, Brentford, Fulham all come to mind.

TBH, what a bloody awful week for us all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

I think we have to go for a hybrid, and I think foreign ownership should be limited. I was an enthusiastic supporter of the takeover of Heart by CFG. At the time it was still only an 80% (or thereabouts) majority share, and the rest was still local, and also we were only the second actual playing club at the time (the other being Manchester City - New York City existed but had not yet started to play). Now we are wholly owned, just one of 12 clubs, and pretty much the bottom of that pile. It's not a good feeling for any of us.

When Heart was formed there was talk of allowing members to take a share, but the talk never came to any fruition. At the time I would have gladly put up my money for a share. Return on investment doesn't have to always be money - it can bring reward in all sorts of ways. Home renovation is often not actually necessary, but the reward comes in comfort. And your life becomes more fulfilling and therefore your overall health and attitudes tend to improve. Such I believe it would have been with Heart. To be at AAMI in the Heart years was just so different from what it is today.

There's a lot of anger in Australia at the moment. We see that reflected in many ways, and IMO last night was an example of that. Interesting too that @Torn Asunder rates the active supporters of the four "big city" clubs as the ones on the wrong path. Doesn't surprise me that that's where the anger shows.

And it must be addressed, but I think it must be addressed not only at the fan level. I don't think that being necessarily "big" is the answer. The EPL still has relatively "small" clubs who are competitive and keep the game alive and kicking. Bournemouth (just 11,000 capacity at their home ground), Brighton, Brentford, Fulham all come to mind.

TBH, what a bloody awful week for us all.

Which 4 clubs? Apart from the occasional flare our active support has been reasonably well behaved.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, TheStig said:

Ask yourself this question. If Glover has quietly picked up the flare and put it in the bucket would there have been a riot?

Blaming Glover is like saying, "look what you've done now, you made me hit you". Nobody should have a flare thrown at them (and it was thrown at him) whilst doing their job. In retrospect, he should have been far more careful about what he did with it but the match was still in progress, he was trying to clear the field. There's also images of visit0r flogs already over the fence before he picked up the flare.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, kiko said:

I think JW is right about a separate gate for active, which can be done pretty easily at AAMI and then a separate styled m/ship card to get into the area (photo ID on it probably), and then yes, TornUnder those 3 things as well. Last night was not the end of football in this country it was possibly the end of active and, to be honest to lose it and keep football is probably a sacrifice the administrators of the game will take.

I can't understand how security can insist that my 60-year-old wife surrender a plastic water bottle and other people can bring in fireworks and flares with impunity. I can't understand how security can wrestle a 14-year-old to the ground for crossing the fence or standing on a seat yet not be able to keep fans and players safe.

I've never felt safer in the presence of ground security, they are a factor, in general, dysregulating the crowd; maybe or maybe not last night, I wasn't there, but, as a general comment. Flares were present in Fed Square, and this almost passed without comment by MSM apart from it being included in the 'incredible atmosphere'. The overall review should be a way to channel the energy of the supporters in a creative way without a response that requires a display of toxic masculinity from a dysregulated minority.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, belaguttman said:

I can't understand how security can insist that my 60-year-old wife surrender a plastic water bottle and other people can bring in fireworks and flares with impunity. I can't understand how security can wrestle a 14-year-old to the ground for crossing the fence or standing on a seat yet not be able to keep fans and players safe.

I've never felt safer in the presence of ground security, they are a factor, in general, dysregulating the crowd; maybe or maybe not last night, I wasn't there, but, as a general comment. Flares were present in Fed Square, and this almost passed without comment by MSM apart from it being included in the 'incredible atmosphere'. The overall review should be a way to channel the energy of the supporters in a creative way without a response that requires a display of toxic masculinity from a dysregulated minority.

Yeah. I remember my late wife having to surrender a water bottle that was deemed to exceed the allowed size. The irony being that it was City merchandise!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've had time to reflect on last night and I still struggle to reconcile the fact that for the myriad of reasons this game in this City and country is forever doomed.

I cannot see this game ever becoming "normal", "mainstream". It will be always regarded fringe.

The actual incident and pitch invasion was avoidable. Seriously they had enough security and Vic Pol present to line the fence at both ends as deterrent.

A Glover, FMD, to say he made a bad choice, wow, that's Seriously got to be the dumbest thing he could have done. Izzo had several flares thrown at him, especially aftet we scored. 1 even burnt a hole in the the net, and for every flare thrown at him, he calmy removed of the field to the side and it became a non issue. But Glover hurls is back. What did he think was going to happen. And then to top it off he's got these morons charging at him and he's facing them standing his ground, just dumb. 

The bloke that I reackon is probably completely blameless was the ref, he actually tried to protect Glover and got covered in the sand. The funniest thing watching the news reports is that a one point as he is getting escorted off he blows his whistle. 

Anyway I think Glover will cop some suspension but by and large I think the game itself is beyond repair. 

Very very sad realisation. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I also was a founder member until last season my darling wifes health was starting to detererate (sorry about the spelling) also my own so we decide not to attend games. In the mean time after a derby at AMII park we were quietly walking to the station after the game when we had a flare thrown at us from somewhere below where we were walking so i tossed it back to them and was then threatened with assault . Luckily a fellow walker who was bigger than them told them to get lost, those supposed fans were Victory supporters so it must run in the blood of their fans. 

This disgraceful behavior at this last match has to  be the last straw for Victory active, as like many others i think they were at that match purely to riot, ok so Glover did the wrong thing but the security should have dealt with it in the first instance.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Mr MO said:

We are the biggest sport in the world, loud fans and safe use of flares are part of it, pitch invasions and violence are not.

No, the sport isn’t dying and this league will over come this and move on just like any other league in the world has done.

Providing the money doesn't pull out with the likes of parashit, 10 and even to a lesser extent Isuzu. If they go the league is in trouble. Otherwise it's going to be a long recovery 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Torn Asunder said:

The guy that threw the bucket is an absolute dead shit. As if you are going to somehow get away with that. Firstly you have your face exposed and secondly your finger prints are all over the steel bucket. What a f%cking iiddiiioooottttt!!! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, malloy said:

The pitch invasion was pre-planned, numerous MVFC supporters with life bans were in attendance with their OSM pals. There was a reason why they all didn't walk out on 20 mins. If you watch the side angle of the video where Gliver throws the flare you can see some of them already starting to go over the fence and security moving in prior to the flare being thrown into the NT.

Glover fucked up, n should be punished for that, but he can't be blamed for something that OSM planned to do.

Fair enough, most of my posts about this issue have been me shitposting. I'm only annoyed at Glover for being careless with when he was removing the flare from the field of play. I don't think he was intentionally throwing it into the stands, more reckless than anything.

To play the devils advocate however, I actually like the idea of active areas around the country interrupting live play during rounds. Obviously I don't condone anything the mongs did, or anyone for that manner attacking players, but are all of these walk outs really achieving anything? Are we actually going to have a reversal of the decision or some type of change happen? Because atm I see nothing happening except a few posts on twitter acknowledging active areas walking out. If all of these active areas actually want to see a reversal of the decision made about where the next 3 grand finals are being held, their needs to be some actual disturbance to how rounds of football are happening.Nothing is being achieved currently.

Edited by kingofhearts
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, kingofhearts said:

To play the devils advocate however, I actually like the idea of active areas around the country interrupting live play during rounds. Obviously I don't condone anything the mongs did, or anyone for that manner attacking players, but are all of these walk outs really achieving anything? Are we actually going to have a reversal of the decision or some type of change happen? Because atm I see nothing happening except a few posts on twitter acknowledging active areas walking out. If all of these active areas actually want to see a reversal of the decision made about where the next 3 grand finals are being held, their needs to be some actual disturbance to how rounds of football are happening.Nothing is being achieved currently.

If they were done sensibly i think there is a 5050 chance they may have been somewhat effective for this round, but obviously no chance now...and anything more than one round would most likely piss off every other supporter more tbh. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...