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A-League Season 2022-23 - Round-by-Round discussion of the other clubs


jw1739
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11 minutes ago, mattyh001 said:

not sure where to post this so will post here.

can someone please explain how come Canberra lose the 3 points from their A League Womens game on the weekend for possibly an innocuous 4th sub in 90th min injury time, yet the tards aren't  forced to forfeit the Xmas derby for bringing the game into disrupt, causing a game to be abandon and injury to people on the field through the stupidity of their fans?

 

edit: it just seems like complete and utter bullshit

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-06/canberra-united-a-league-women-stripped-points-substitutions/102058184

I'm guessing that this has occurred because there are, and were before the W-match, rules on substitutions, but before the Christmas Derby there probably were not rules covering the points that you mention concerning A-League matches- game into disrepute, causing a match to be abandoned, injury to players, due to a pitch invasion. Hence FA and APL made it up as they went along. 

I feel that the tardiness (no pun) of FA and APL to decide what the "punishments" should be after the abandoned Christmas Derby tends to support my guess that there is or was no rule or set of rules to deal with such an event.

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28 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

I'm guessing that this has occurred because there are, and were before the W-match, rules on substitutions, but before the Christmas Derby there probably were not rules covering the points that you mention concerning A-League matches- game into disrepute, causing a match to be abandoned, injury to players, due to a pitch invasion. Hence FA and APL made it up as they went along. 

I feel that the tardiness (no pun) of FA and APL to decide what the "punishments" should be after the abandoned Christmas Derby tends to support my guess that there is or was no rule or set of rules to deal with such an event.

certainly sounds like it is a possiblity.

i just don't get how the severity of the points decision against Canberra means that Victory get off scot free regarding an immediate docking of points.  we are comparing what seems like an honest mistake regarding a 4th sub (which the referee endorsed too btw through allowing it to happen) against a complete and utter disgrace regarding Victory. 

if nothing else, the Victory situation might not have had an immediate rule in place because it was so bad and so unprecedented.  if it is good enough to dock points against Canberra, then docking more points against Victory is par for the course

of course, the APL have come across as a pack of arse hats multiple times this season so ......

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1 hour ago, mattyh001 said:

certainly sounds like it is a possiblity.

i just don't get how the severity of the points decision against Canberra means that Victory get off scot free regarding an immediate docking of points.  we are comparing what seems like an honest mistake regarding a 4th sub (which the referee endorsed too btw through allowing it to happen) against a complete and utter disgrace regarding Victory. 

if nothing else, the Victory situation might not have had an immediate rule in place because it was so bad and so unprecedented.  if it is good enough to dock points against Canberra, then docking more points against Victory is par for the course

of course, the APL have come across as a pack of arse hats multiple times this season so ......

This is the A-League(s) of course, where the unprecedented and the impossible are commonplace...

Or, to put it in Aussie vernacular, "If the A-League(s) can possibly fuck it up, then they will."

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1 hour ago, mattyh001 said:

certainly sounds like it is a possiblity.

i just don't get how the severity of the points decision against Canberra means that Victory get off scot free regarding an immediate docking of points.  we are comparing what seems like an honest mistake regarding a 4th sub (which the referee endorsed too btw through allowing it to happen) against a complete and utter disgrace regarding Victory. 

if nothing else, the Victory situation might not have had an immediate rule in place because it was so bad and so unprecedented.  if it is good enough to dock points against Canberra, then docking more points against Victory is par for the course

of course, the APL have come across as a pack of arse hats multiple times this season so ......

I feel like the decision to replay the gane with a 1 nil lead was probably chosen to avoid any questions surrounding any hint of favouritism towards City from the league (given how deep CFG's ties go these days with the board and its investors).

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3 hours ago, jw1739 said:

This is the A-League(s) of course, where the unprecedented and the impossible are commonplace...

Or, to put it in Aussie vernacular, "If the A-League(s) can possibly fuck it up, then they will."

don't disagree, just hope people understand why it pisses me off.

it truly fucks us over

2 hours ago, malloy said:

I feel like the decision to replay the gane with a 1 nil lead was probably chosen to avoid any questions surrounding any hint of favouritism towards City from the league (given how deep CFG's ties go these days with the board and its investors).

as opposed to other clubs ....

goes both ways. just think how we feel about Sydney teams ....

 

edit:   after all, this is not a once a decade thing

Edited by mattyh001
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While I share your frustrations, I think the simple answer is probably the correct one here:

  • In Canberra's case it was a mistake by the football club - and so the football club received the penalty.
  • In Victory's case it was the actions of the fans and not the players on the pitch or the coaching staff.

While football clubs do have significant responsibility for culture and self-policing, there is some sense in separating a competition penalty (based on breach of the competition rules) from a 'club' penalty, which in Victory's case was financial penalties. 

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1 hour ago, Tangerine said:

While I share your frustrations, I think the simple answer is probably the correct one here:

  • In Canberra's case it was a mistake by the football club - and so the football club received the penalty.
  • In Victory's case it was the actions of the fans and not the players on the pitch or the coaching staff.

While football clubs do have significant responsibility for culture and self-policing, there is some sense in separating a competition penalty (based on breach of the competition rules) from a 'club' penalty, which in Victory's case was financial penalties. 

@Tangerine Yes, that's certainly a worthy explanation. I just wonder whether that answer is wholly consistent with the decisions regarding the non-complying payments to Andy Keogh by Perth Glory, where no points were actually deducted but irrespective of their points total Perth were demoted to 7th position on the ladder at the end of the season?

Either way it would appear desirable for the administrators to "turn their minds" to this sort of thing and be better prepared should similar events happen again. The test is really "how much control does/did the club have?"

IMO the sense of indignation that MV have not lost any competition points over the incidents is that apart from a few individual bans (which cannot be enforced) MV fans in general will not suffer any consequences from those incidents, whereas in the cases of Perth and Canberra they did/do.

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17 hours ago, mattyh001 said:

don't disagree, just hope people understand why it pisses me off.

it truly fucks us over

as opposed to other clubs ....

goes both ways. just think how we feel about Sydney teams ....

 

edit:   after all, this is not a once a decade thing

Yes, but I think this directive hss come from CFG, as opposed to the league. CFG really do dislike any sort of negative attention and try to limit/reduce reputational risks (see Novillo being moved on after the rumours/allegations of DV).

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One further thought - while the Perth Glory payment rule breach, the Sydney breaches of the squad/U-23 rule, and now the Canberra breach of the substitutes rules were and are purely a local issue, the scenes of the "blackest day in Australian football" were seen around the world.

When placed in that context IMO there's every reason for MV to have forfeited that particular match, and in fact to have received a points deduction for next season as well.

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15 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

One further thought - while the Perth Glory payment rule breach, the Sydney breaches of the squad/U-23 rule, and now the Canberra breach of the substitutes rules were and are purely a local issue, the scenes of the "blackest day in Australian football" were seen around the world.

When placed in that context IMO there's every reason for MV to have forfeited that particular match, and in fact to have received a points deduction for next season as well.

But the rule of 'too big to fail' applies. Victory are too big, and too influential, to be treated like other, smaller clubs. You only have to listen to the commentariat, and the often gushing enthusiasm expressed for Victory. The NSD needs to be very careful of Sydney 58 for many of the same reasons.

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5 hours ago, Mr MO said:

Very impressive with 10 man for 90 minutes and with WSW knocking on the door most of the game.

My feeling is that if we don't tighten up right across the park it will be these sorts of results rather than our own that will determine the Premiership.

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9 minutes ago, MHFC-FAN said:

They are the most inform team at the moment. Definitely our biggest threat for the Premiership and Championship if we keep slipping up... 

I am interested only in the Premiership, because that guarantees ACL football.

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2 hours ago, jw1739 said:

I am interested only in the Premiership, because that guarantees ACL football.

Yeah true. The Premiership certainly carries a lot more significance now then years prior. Championship now is just a end of season cup tournament basically... 

2 hours ago, jw1739 said:

I am interested only in the Premiership, because that guarantees ACL football.

Also even runner up in the league gets AFC Cup competition too! 

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Western Sydney have tripped over their shoelaces and the Coasties are likely too far back, but Adelaide look the likely strongest challengers. We could do with a win tomorrow, otherwise we begin to look like a team with the yips. Having said that these next three games all look winnable. Actually winning them will likely seal it over the next two weeks. Don't want to be relying getting points in some of our later fixtures.

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51 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

But how on earth have MV sunk as low as they have? From a powerhouse to the poorhouse. I know that we can gloat at the moment, but it's not good for the League or football in Melbourne.

I reckon they have ballsed up from a lack of a youth academy or if they have one it's poor. Secondly they have regularly recruited 'big name players' who are generally well past their best. Just poor recruiting in the past 3 years. 

Personally I am enjoying watching them flounder down the bottom, as they have given us shit for soo long and quite frankly deserve to have some poor seasons... 

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9 hours ago, MHFC-FAN said:

I reckon they have ballsed up from a lack of a youth academy or if they have one it's poor. Secondly they have regularly recruited 'big name players' who are generally well past their best. Just poor recruiting in the past 3 years. 

Personally I am enjoying watching them flounder down the bottom, as they have given us shit for soo long and quite frankly deserve to have some poor seasons... 

I was thinking along the same lines re youth academy. I was wondering how CCM and AU with their smaller budgets were able to field competitive teams on a regular basis (they have had the odd drop off though) and I came to the conclusion that both teams have mature youth academies. Even City right now, we are bringing in youth although in years past when we would have lost players like Leckie & VDV plus injuries to JMac & Nabbout & Berenguer would have spelt the end of the season for the club. Clubs without decent youth academies like Sydney & MVC really need to have their recruitment spot on. And as City has found out it takes about 6 years to get the youth academy right.

As for recruiting big name players, well the APL have a budget for this but I am thinking that the local product is now good enough that to attract big names, they will need to be just outside of the 4 big European leagues and most likely outside the A-League's budget.

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I think as far as Youth Academy's go. We have by far the best in Aus by a country mile! Adelaide and Central Coast have always put alot of time and effort into bringing the youth players through too.. look at the likes of Toure and now Irakunda. when you look at Victory name 1 player of late that has come through there youth system and ended up over in Europe.. then you compare us and the list is starting to grow each season! Victory is the same old crap.. recruit big name players who are well past it and a couple of recycled a league players and struggle on the pitch. Do the likes of Macarthur and the Wanderers even have a youth system set up? I understand the homeless club (Western United) does.

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1 hour ago, heart1011 said:

I think as far as Youth Academy's go. We have by far the best in Aus by a country mile! Adelaide and Central Coast have always put alot of time and effort into bringing the youth players through too.. look at the likes of Toure and now Irakunda. when you look at Victory name 1 player of late that has come through there youth system and ended up over in Europe.. then you compare us and the list is starting to grow each season! Victory is the same old crap.. recruit big name players who are well past it and a couple of recycled a league players and struggle on the pitch. Do the likes of Macarthur and the Wanderers even have a youth system set up? I understand the homeless club (Western United) does.

Yeah spot on. I think the key to success in this league is to have a great youth set up. You can see the clubs that don't have great youth academy's tend to struggle. 

I mean when you look at victory what is their identity now? Because it certainly isn't producing their own talent... 

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5 hours ago, MHFC-FAN said:

Yeah spot on. I think the key to success in this league is to have a great youth set up. You can see the clubs that don't have great youth academy's tend to struggle. 

I mean when you look at victory what is their identity now? Because it certainly isn't producing their own talent... 

Realistically it is Us, Adelaide and the Mariners that are doing well and always have in that department.

 

As for Victory I don't even think they know of late! But for so long they gave us crap and still do to today and yet what have they achieved the last few seasons apart from the FFA Cup they won? Popovic has litteraly recruited some big name players in hope they will play well but they have absolutely flopped. You watch them play and it is such boring football with no young and upcoming talent.. it's amazing how the times have changed! 

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28 minutes ago, heart1011 said:

Realistically it is Us, Adelaide and the Mariners that are doing well and always have in that department.

 

As for Victory I don't even think they know of late! But for so long they gave us crap and still do to today and yet what have they achieved the last few seasons apart from the FFA Cup they won? Popovic has litteraly recruited some big name players in hope they will play well but they have absolutely flopped. You watch them play and it is such boring football with no young and upcoming talent.. it's amazing how the times have changed! 

If I hadn't of run out of 'likes' I would have given you one for this post. Your not wrong about the Victory...apart from winning the FA/Aus Cup last season they haven't won the Premier Plate since 2014/15 and their last grand final win was 2018.

For their 'Big club status' they have had quite a few lean years... With 1 trophy in the last 5 years certainly highlights this fact!

39 minutes ago, NewConvert said:

I would also add Sydney FC to the MVC contingent.

Correct! Sydney too has to undergo practically a complete overhaul of their very senior squad! 

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3 hours ago, NewConvert said:

I would also add Sydney FC to the MVC contingent.

Very true! And they gave away young aspiring talent! Just look at the likes of Tilio and Talbot! 

 

They are very much like Victory now.. try and sign a few big name players who are well past it. The average age of there squad now is all above the age of 30! Wilkinson for example is now 38 and is still there starting CB!

Edited by heart1011
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1 minute ago, heart1011 said:

I worry them come finals time..

I don't care about that. A misstep by us in the last few league matches and they will be right on our tails in the race for the Premiership and the ACL. That's the main prize now.

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2 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

I don't care about that. A misstep by us in the last few league matches and they will be right on our tails in the race for the Premiership and the ACL. That's the main prize now.

Very true. @MHFC-FAN pointed out that the finals now are pretty much worthless apart from winning the toilet seat..

Finishing top you are clearly the top team for the season and gain ACL qualification.

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