THE FINAL! Wednesday 30 November 7:30pm

[jw1739]

1 hour ago, KSK_47 said:

I can understand why people are pissed off. Should be drawn out of a hat IMO.

If another club were allowed an extra marquee player that was paid for by the FFA then were given a home cup final based on a decision made by the FFA I wouldnt be very impressed either

In principle, yes, it should be drawn out of a hat, but the choice of venue is a decision based on the TV audience. The crowd will look better in a 30,000-seat stadium rather than 45,000.

AFAIK FFA is stumping up $1m for Cahill, the bulk of his wages are being paid by us. IMO we're only doing it so that we can get other concessions from FFA, which we will see next season.

[KSK_47]

2 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

 

IMO we're only doing it so that we can get other concessions from FFA, which we will see next season.

We absolutely are- but the fact they are making rules up to suit our specific needs (that benefit them also obviously) is completely ridiculous and blatant favoritism. And as mentioned to give us a home final based on their totally "non biased opinion" after all that is a bit hard to swallow for me 

[bt50]

3 minutes ago, KSK_47 said:

Absolutely they dont deserve it more than us. I agree that anyone who thinks that is having a whinge

As for the guest spot, it isnt avalible to all clubs because 1- there is no actual set criteria. Its just what ever the FFA feel like. And 2- a "guest" spot for an entire season is a completely new rule that has been made up specifically for this situation as far as I am aware. Obviously they are not dumb and its more about a mutually benificial agreement but the FFA putting money into the deal (any money after making up these kinds of rules to suit the situation) does certainly make it difficult to argue that we are not being given preferential treatment.

There is a criteria, but it’s a subjective one. The criteria was that it’s a player that’s name can be leveraged to increase interest in the league. A player that casual followers of the game will have heard of. Generally speaking, in Australia these types either played, and were key players in the EPL or are Champions League stars ie Gerrard, Torres, Essein, Iniesta. Players like Diamante might have been terrific from a playing point of view and worthy of a marquee spot, but I hadn’t heard of him prior to the ACL a couple seasons ago and I consider myself a reasonably avid follower of the game. If I haven’t heard of him I don’t expect a casual follower of the game to have and therefore I doubt he’d have been a drawcard in a marketing sense. There was nothing to stop Victory paying out Bozanic and signing Diamante as their marquee.
Sure the extension of the guest rule was made to fit Cahill into the A League, but tbh I don’t think its preferential treatment as such; its unquestionably benefitted the entire A League and football in the country, and like I said, the other teams equally have the opportunity to sign a ‘name’.

[Jovan]

6 minutes ago, KSK_47 said:

We absolutely are- but the fact they are making rules up to suit our specific needs (that benefit them also obviously) is completely ridiculous and blatant favoritism. And as mentioned to give us a home final based on their totally "non biased opinion" after all that is a bit hard to swallow for me 

Totally agree but it's nothing new. Since the FFA was created it has been making up rules and changing rules mid season. The only real difference is that at this point in time it favours us. Long may it continue. 

[n i k o]

9 minutes ago, KSK_47 said:

We absolutely are- but the fact they are making rules up to suit our specific needs (that benefit them also obviously) is completely ridiculous and blatant favoritism. And as mentioned to give us a home final based on their totally "non biased opinion" after all that is a bit hard to swallow for me 

Again evidence the FFA needs to give up its control over the league and introduce an independent body to administer. All bias aside there is no transparency over how these decisions are made. Even something as simple as whoever finishes the prior season higher would be better than an apparent decision made at a whim. In this case it would be us and would be easy to defend that point. 

[jw1739]

2 minutes ago, Jovan said:

Totally agree but it's nothing new. Since the FFA was created it has been making up rules and changing rules mid season. The only real difference is that at this point in time it favours us. Long may it continue. 

The Cahill rule favours us only because we are theoretically the wealthiest club in the league. IMO if we had not been able to extract concessions from FFA for the future, then I doubt that we would have gone for Cahill either, because by all accounts (no pun intended) the cash available to Melbourne City is according to a budget and not unlimited.

[KSK_47]

15 minutes ago, bt50 said:

Sure the extension of the guest rule was made to fit Cahill into the A League, but tbh I don’t think its preferential treatment as such; its unquestionably benefitted the entire A League and football in the country, and like I said, the other teams equally have the opportunity to sign a ‘name’.

This ambiguous (at best) "criteria" was made up after this signing. They are just making shit up as they go and you know it. You know full well we are the only ones in a position to be utilizing these types of draw-card signings. Of course its benefited the league but has done nothing to legitimize it or us which is what I would much rather see. 

 

14 minutes ago, Jovan said:

Totally agree but it's nothing new. Since the FFA was created it has been making up rules and changing rules mid season. The only real difference is that at this point in time it favours us. Long may it continue. 

As I have been saying since we were sold, I would rather win on merit. Winning simply because we can afford it feels very shallow in my eyes.

 

*but all this is beside the point. The point I was trying to make is that surely people can see why the decision to give us a home final  does not sit well with most people and if it were us that had to play away to a team that had already been given ample  concessions, we would be just as pissed 

Edited October 26, 2016 by KSK_47

[GreenSeater]

They should have just given each club a third full marquee spot and be done with it

[bt50]

2 minutes ago, KSK_47 said:

This ambiguous (at best) "criteria" was made up after this signing. They are just making shit up as they go and you know it. You know full well we are the only ones in a position to be utilizing these types of draw-card signings. Of course its benefited the league but has done nothing to legitimize it or us which is what I would much rather see. 

 

As I have been saying since we were sold, I would rather win on merit. Winning simply because we can afford it feels very shallow in my eyes.

So does any other team in league's around the world win on 'merit' then under that logic or is it simply money always wins?
The Cahill signing had nothing to do with winning City a trophy, its purely a marketing thing to ensure that the A League takes the next step and gets more eyeballs on screens and bums on seats.

I dont give a fuck if the other teams aren't in positions to make these signings; they need to be better on and off the field to put themselves in that position. 

[KSK_47]

3 minutes ago, GreenSeater said:

They should have just given each club a third full marquee spot and be done with it

I just hate grey areas. Either have a cap and enforce it equally on all clubs or dont bother at all. 

But this is getting off topic.

[Jovan]

3 minutes ago, KSK_47 said:

As I have been saying since we were sold, I would rather win on merit. Winning simply because we can afford it feels very shallow in my eyes.

But we actually can't afford it. It's pretty clear to me that CFG are pretty tight.  We should have cut our losses with Koren and possibly paid out JVS but they didn't and haven't. They are in a position to get in million dollar players as Marquees but we haven't. These people will spend when it benefits them. Bringing in Cahil long term , spending on infrastructure and backroom staff. 

We still haven't won anything yet.

[malloy]

8 minutes ago, KSK_47 said:

This ambiguous (at best) "criteria" was made up after this signing. They are just making shit up as they go and you know it. You know full well we are the only ones in a position to be utilizing these types of draw-card signings. Of course its benefited the league but has done nothing to legitimize it or us which is what I would much rather see. 

 

As I have been saying since we were sold, I would rather win on merit. Winning simply because we can afford it feels very shallow in my eyes.

To be fair Cahill was shopped around to the other clubs as well as us. So presumably the same concession would have been available had other teams signed him.

I think there was an article suggesting the FFA were really pushing for Syd to sign him, but they didn't want him.

So pretty much they were changing rules to boost the appeal of the league and not changing them for us. It just turned out that we were willing to take up the FFAs offer in exchange for our change to City Blue kits.

Edited October 26, 2016 by malloy

[KSK_47]

OK. I think I have well and truly taken this thread off the rails.

So I will summarize and leave it at this

The point I was making is that I totally understand why supporters of other clubs feel we are being given preferential treatment by the FFA (and I agree with them). Who it does or doesnt help is irrelevant. If you make rules, they should be clear and enforced equally and consistently. Clearly this is not the case.

If it was another club we had to compete against, we would be furious and complaining about how rigged it is that we were drawn away to the FFA's pet club for no given reason other than the FFA want it that way

Edited October 26, 2016 by KSK_47

[GreenSeater]

I think its also worth noting that there is no way in hell that Sydney FC payed all of Del Piero's wages when he was there. Then you have Victory loaning in both Rogic and Troisi for a season without paying a cent for them, then the second we try to do it the loophole is closed. We're also the only coub in the league that wasn't at some point owned and operated by the FFA. I also get the feeling that if it weren't for the FFA loving the Wanderers so much they would have lost three points for their display at the Sydney derby and Victory would have lost three points as well for the Melbourne Derby. Basically what I'm getting at is this isn't the first time the FFA has been kind to a particular club and it probably wont be the last, so enjoy it while you can. 

[SF33]

50 minutes ago, bellydrum said:

It's actually cheaper than a regular league game for category B and C, and about 4 dollars more expensive for cat A. This is before members discount as well.

I don't see how that is outrageous, it's actually quite good. 

Well, the members discount for a normal game is 100%. 10% pretty much falls into the 'why bother?' category.

I think it's outrageous because it's in everyone's interests to fill the stadium and they've priced it so that we'll probably get a pretty standard Melbourne City turnout (8-10k). Ticketek makes its money off the processing fees anyway, the FFA would love a packed house, if there were special members deals (something worthwhile, not 10% off), Sydney and City would probably see a bit of a jump in memberships over November (especially if those teams continue their good league form). Why set the pricing so that getting a 1/3 full stadium would be a solid result? It's so counter-productive.

[KSK_47]

11 minutes ago, GreenSeater said:

I think its also worth noting that there is no way in hell that Sydney FC payed all of Del Piero's wages when he was there. Then you have Victory loaning in both Rogic and Troisi for a season without paying a cent for them, then the second we try to do it the loophole is closed. We're also the only coub in the league that wasn't at some point owned and operated by the FFA. I also get the feeling that if it weren't for the FFA loving the Wanderers so much they would have lost three points for their display at the Sydney derby and Victory would have lost three points as well for the Melbourne Derby. Basically what I'm getting at is this isn't the first time the FFA has been kind to a particular club and it probably wont be the last, so enjoy it while you can. 

I am not saying other clubs have not had similar things happen to them because they sure as shit have. I am just saying that if we wernt the beneficiary of these stupid loopholes and made up rules we would be fuming and I can understand why people have the shits about us being given a home final for no actual reason.

I am not saying I am unhappy about having a cup final at home because I am. I was just pointing out that I understand the agro towards us at the moment

Edited October 26, 2016 by KSK_47

[jw1739]

The decision on venue definitely had to favour one club or the other (unless a neutral city had been chosen) but whether that constitutes favouritism is debatable. Nevertheless, much of this argument/discussion would not be taking place if the venue for the final had been announced before our semi-final, or (my personal preference) if it had been "drawn out of the hat." Hopefully FFA will learn from this and do that in the future. While they're at it, free up the whole draw starting with the Round of 32, then there will be nothing to argue about except the football.

[Kiro Kompiro]

The number 1 criteria for the FFA is profit.  The Age reckons its because AAMI was half the rent of Sydney that got Melborune over the line.

 

So if profit is the motivator, you might get more going with cheaper prices, but profit might be less,many General Admission are concessions/students anyway.  They would've done the maths- 12k might make more money than 20k of cheap tickets

Just now, jw1739 said:

The decision on venue definitely had to favour one club or the other (unless a neutral city had been chosen) but whether that constitutes favouritism is debatable. Nevertheless, much of this argument/discussion would not be taking place if the venue for the final had been announced before our semi-final, or (my personal preference) if it had been "drawn out of the hat." Hopefully FFA will learn from this and do that in the future. While they're at it, free up the whole draw starting with the Round of 32, then there will be nothing to argue about except the football.

AAMi stadium rental was half of Sydeny stadium rental.   End of discussion.

[GreenSeater]

3 minutes ago, KSK_47 said:

I am not saying other clubs have not had similar things happen to them because they sure as shit have. I am just saying that if we wernt the beneficiary of these stupid loopholes and made up rules we would be fuming and I can understand why people have the shits about us being given a home final for no actual reason.

I am not saying I am unhappy about having a cup final at home because I am. I was just pointing out that I understand the agro towards us at the moment

Yeah I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm not a fan of it at all, but I guess I'm just playing the devil's advocate and showing that in the end it isn't just CFG greasing up the FFA, it's the FFA being a joke

[jw1739]

39 minutes ago, n i k o said:

Again evidence the FFA needs to give up its control over the league and introduce an independent body to administer. All bias aside there is no transparency over how these decisions are made. Even something as simple as whoever finishes the prior season higher would be better than an apparent decision made at a whim. In this case it would be us and would be easy to defend that point. 

It does, but that would make no difference to the administration of the FFA Cup. 

[KSK_47]

9 minutes ago, GreenSeater said:

Yeah I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm not a fan of it at all, but I guess I'm just playing the devil's advocate and showing that in the end it isn't just CFG greasing up the FFA, it's the FFA being a joke

True. It also just occurred to me that because this clubs culture was built on an "us against the world" underdog mentality is probably another reason why having things go our way with the help and blessing of the FFA is something I am struggling to cope with. This is going to take a lot of getting used to because I have a feeling its going to be happening a lot more down the track

Edited October 26, 2016 by KSK_47

[Thrillhouse]

more expensive tickets for a mid week game, crowds going to be horrible

[Kiro Kompiro]

7 minutes ago, KSK_47 said:

True. It also just occurred to me that because this clubs culture was built on an "us against the world" underdog mentality is probably another reason why having things go our way with the help and blessing of the FFA is something I am struggling to cope with. This is going to take a lot of getting used to because I have a feeling its going to be happening a lot more down the track

if you to profile the Heart supporter it would be the "under dog" mentality.

its been a huge cultural challenge supporting the AFL Premiers.  Once you win, others hate you, so its all good again.

[KSK_47]

10 minutes ago, Kiro Kompiro said:

if you to profile the Heart supporter it would be the "under dog" mentality.

its been a huge cultural challenge supporting the AFL Premiers.  Once you win, others hate you, so its all good again.

I think I went beyond "underdog" mentality and turned into victim complex.  Its weird. I was just sitting here and thought "What the fuck? I should be enjoying this! If this were the Socceroos with a chance to win silverware I wouldnt give a shit about anything else other than their success- certainly wouldnt give a fuck about how it happened! What is wrong with me?!" Its strange because I am not like this with any other aspect of my life.

So yeah. I am going to try to adapt this as my new attitude towards City

 

Edited October 26, 2016 by KSK_47

[Kiro Kompiro]

^^^ Don't tell me: "Little Engine That Could" was your favourite book and you sang at the top of you lungs "Little Red Caboose"  in grade 1.

[KSK_47]

5 minutes ago, Kiro Kompiro said:

^^^ Don't tell me: "Little Engine That Could" was your favourite book and you sang at the top of you lungs "Little Red Caboose"  in grade 1.

Hahaha. Not quite

[playmaker]

35 minutes ago, KSK_47 said:

True. It also just occurred to me that because this clubs culture was built on an "us against the world" underdog mentality is probably another reason why having things go our way with the help and blessing of the FFA is something I am struggling to cope with. This is going to take a lot of getting used to because I have a feeling its going to be happening a lot more down the track

Exactly this. The tards and smurfs have been the power broker clubs for so long that it has become a perceived right to get preferential treatment while we just sit there and accept it. But the FFA, in their wisdom have finally realised that it is not in the best interests of the league to continue this favouritism. 

Regardless of the adhoc changes to the rules, every club has the same opportunity and the rules should be changed to benefit the game as a whole.

Being an avid Man City fan, I knew the Melbourne heart buy out would eventually lead to us being the number 1 club in Melbourne and it will come, as these small changes of direction by the FFA is just a sign of maturity more than anything rather than the immature Tards and smurfs centric administration, and we are now the best administered club in the A league.

[pattyd89]

So how do we write to the FFA to tell them they are idiots for that category pricing because we'll now attract a crowd of 9k when 22k could have been achievable at $28 Cat A tickets?

[n i k o]

Depends how big Category A is. If its covering the areas of where City Class, First Touch and City Gold then there will be a problem. If however Cat A is near the center of the pitch then it could still work out enough to get a decent crowd. I'd still like to know why the price for the game couldn't be kept at the same price of the semi.

[Jestr]

[Fredinho69]

TBH I don't think the ticket pricing is that bad. CAT A should be around $50-60 for an adult then a further 10% would be more than reasonable. Either way I'm happy with CAT C behind the goals at the Yarra end. Seems as though more and more people are getting behind the Melburnians also and its becoming a great atmosphere back there

[fidrildid6]

1 hour ago, KSK_47 said:

True. It also just occurred to me that because this clubs culture was built on an "us against the world" underdog mentality is probably another reason why having things go our way with the help and blessing of the FFA is something I am struggling to cope with. This is going to take a lot of getting used to because I have a feeling its going to be happening a lot more down the track

I feel the exact same way, it's hard to deal with being labelled a "powerhouse" and having all this backing and money (and we still haven't won anything, but that will change soon enough)

[reganconnor16]

So pumped for the game! How about Fernando last night, absolute freak

[jw1739]

9 minutes ago, Fredinho69 said:

TBH I don't think the ticket pricing is that bad. CAT A should be around $50-60 for an adult then a further 10% would be more than reasonable. Either way I'm happy with CAT C behind the goals at the Yarra end. Seems as though more and more people are getting behind the Melburnians also and its becoming a great atmosphere back there

IMO that's pretty close. Another incentive could be a discount  for groups. For example, some theatre events will offer a reduced price for groups of 10+ people to make it attractive for country people to come to Melbourne for a show. That sort of thing. So one Premium A for $60, two for $100 perhaps? 

[Dylan]

14 minutes ago, Fredinho69 said:

TBH I don't think the ticket pricing is that bad. CAT A should be around $50-60 for an adult then a further 10% would be more than reasonable. Either way I'm happy with CAT C behind the goals at the Yarra end. Seems as though more and more people are getting behind the Melburnians also and its becoming a great atmosphere back there

You're right. We can hardly complain when our normal tickets are 60-70 bucks for a league match. Which is a total rip off anyway

[Deeming]

2 minutes ago, Dylan said:

You're right. We can hardly complain when our normal tickets are 60-70 bucks for a league match. Which is a total rip off anyway

100% agree - normal fixtures are a rip off. $70 for the most expensive finals ticket is reasonable

[pattyd89]

6 minutes ago, Deeming said:

100% agree - normal fixtures are a rip off. $70 for the most expensive finals ticket is reasonable

Yes but this is firstly a Wednesday night and we saw last nights attendance. 

Secondly members already have their memberships, that's more leaving the back pocket outside of the two FFA cup games already.

Thirdly, City have 3 home games in 6 days - Sunday against Wellington, the Cup on Wednesday and then Brisbane on Saturday. For a non paying member, how many games do you think they will fork out for? I assume they'll go to the Cup game, and being an FFA game - I'm going to take a guess we don't get the coin. 

So if fairweather fans decide to go to the Cup, OK they might fork out those ticket prices to see City potentially win silverware. But the two games either side will probably get 5,000 fans each game. 

[Defibrillator]

Must admit I'm over the "what's fair" talk. After years of wheelie bin recoveries, shit facilities, no money to get a decent marquee (Maltese Messi my arse!) and watching other teams get loaned gun players with no salary cap implications while we got diddly squat, I'm more than comfortable for the cosmic karma to point our way for a while. Enjoy the ride - things can change quickly in this game. 

[Dylan]

13 minutes ago, Defibrillator said:

Must admit I'm over the "what's fair" talk. After years of wheelie bin recoveries, shit facilities, no money to get a decent marquee (Maltese Messi my arse!) and watching other teams get loaned gun players with no salary cap implications while we got diddly squat, I'm more than comfortable for the cosmic karma to point our way for a while. Enjoy the ride - things can change quickly in this game. 

Exactly. We coped the 'Lampard' rule and benefited from the 'Cahill' rule.

Anyway if they wanted to do a ranking or something along those lines. We had the harder run than Sydney did. Perth away, Brisbane Away and then Home and Away in Melbourne. 

Sydney had Wollongong Away Perth Away then Blacktown in Sydney, Then Canberra in Canberra. Only faced one Aleague team and had to travel an hour outside of Sydney for two games the poor darlings

 

Edited October 26, 2016 by Dylan

[Hughesie27]

I'm pretty surprised that this is considered expensive pricing. You are looking at $80 for the cheapest adult ticket in Scotland for a Cup Final. $40 for a regular home game.

I'm also surprised a major final is played on a midweek when fans need to travel continental distances to attend. 

I for one cannot wait to get to the game and shout on the boys. I'll be trying to convince a few friends to come too. 

COYCB!