TheStig Posted October 22, 2016 Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 (edited) I think a persuasive case can be made for the construction of a new 60,000 (expandable to 100,000) seat stadium in Melbourne. Gosch's Paddock is a potential site for such a ground. AAMI is great, and is suitable for most of our home matches but look how quickly the Visitors have outgrown it, and how it cannot cater for a derby adequately. At the moment there is no stadium in Melbourne that meets both of the following two criteria: 1, Proper rectangular shape suitable for football 2. Is large enough to hold everyone who wants to come see a Melbourne derby. The result? Either a compromised viewing experience at Etihad or thousands of fans miss out on tickets at AAMI. It is also arguable that many fans of football are dissuaded from watching derbies at Etihad simply because they are so far away from the action. Muscat has suggested that a derby could be held at the G, and as a one off that would be an interesting exercise, however it's not suitable for football. Putting the above considerations aside, if Australia is ever to have a serious tilt at holding a World Cup then we need more stadiums. Sydney, thanks to the olympics, is well catered for, but our facilities do not match up to Sydney's. Brisbane has Lang Park. For the size city we are a maximum 30,000 seat stadium is laughably small. There is also a good case to be made in terms of expansion. An extra A league and/or NRL team in Melbourne would also increase the demand for a venue that can hold really big crowds at a rectangular stadium. I hope this is the one thing that our, Visitors and Eurosnob fans can agree on. cheers Peter Edited October 22, 2016 by pberrett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Posted October 22, 2016 Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 With who's money? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStig Posted October 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 Combination of State Government/Federal Government/City Group/Private Investors (Chinese)/Superannuation firms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Posted October 22, 2016 Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 - AAMI Park was opened a touch over a half decade ago. - Etihad Stadium holds around 50k and has retractable seating to suit multiple codes. - The MCG is right across the road and holds 100k. Good luck but there's no way we're getting anything like that for a very long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSK_47 Posted October 22, 2016 Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 Surely we can find a cool 300 mil laying around to build a stadium specifically to cater for 3 a leauge games a year 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofhearts Posted October 22, 2016 Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 1 minute ago, KSK_47 said: Surely we can find a cool 300 mil laying around to build a stadium specifically to cater for 3 a leauge games a year We definitely need one because we're struggling as it is to fit in our massive non derby crowds into aami 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStig Posted October 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 (edited) 7 minutes ago, KSK_47 said: Surely we can find a cool 300 mil laying around to build a stadium specifically to cater for 3 a leauge games a year Yes 3 A-league derbies at present. + numerous rugby matches + finals + a further 6 A - league derbies after the introduction of a 3rd A league Melbourne based team + various Socceroos matches + various ACL matches if Victory can ever get their act together) + the odd rock concert + various exhibition matches by sides such as Liverpool, Manchester City etc + the need for a bigger stadium for holding a World Cup Originally AAMI Park was only going to hold 20k but the intervention by Victory saw that increased to 30k. You need to plan ahead to cater for rapid growth in the sport rather than waiting until you have a situation as we do now where we have capacity problems. cheers Peter Edited October 22, 2016 by pberrett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSK_47 Posted October 22, 2016 Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 1 minute ago, pberrett said: Yes 3 A-league derbies at present. + numerous rugby matches + finals + a further 6 A - league derbies after the introduction of a 3rd A league Melbourne based team + various Socceroos matches + various ACL matches if Victory can ever get their act together) + the odd rock concert + various exhibition matches by sides such as Liverpool, Manchester City etc + the need for a bigger stadium for holding a World Cup cheers Peter If rugby (both leauge or union) start regularly drawing crowds big enough to warrant a bigger stadium, another Melbourne a leauge club is introduced and they draw big crowds, people start giving a shit about the acl and we ever have a hope of hosting a world cup then you might have a case. But at the moment youre dreaming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted October 22, 2016 Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 Mate, check your facts before making a back-of-the envelope business case. Not even the A-League derbies fill what's available. Average home Heart/City derby - 25,607. 10% less than the capacity of AAMI Park. Last Victory home derby 43,188 in a 55,000 capacity Docklands. If someone has $250m+ to put into stadiums then put it into boutique "kit-built" stadiums of appropriate capacity for A-League clubs, not another concrete monolith where a barbeque is deemed a fire hazard. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStig Posted October 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 (edited) I am in the Johnny Warren camp. "Warren's publicly held belief was that if Australia's strong sporting tradition was focused on the sport then Australia could be a world power in the game. One of his famous quotes on the matter was "I'm sick of us saying, 'When are we going to qualify for the World Cup'? When are we going to win the World Cup? ... Call me a dreamer."[11]" From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Warren My view is - when are we going to HOLD the World Cup? 8 minutes ago, jw1739 said: Mate, check your facts before making a back-of-the envelope business case. Not even the A-League derbies fill what's available. Average home Heart/City derby - 25,607. 10% less than the capacity of AAMI Park. Last Victory home derby 43,188 in a 55,000 capacity Docklands. If someone has $250m+ to put into stadiums then put it into boutique "kit-built" stadiums of appropriate capacity for A-League clubs, not another concrete monolith where a barbeque is deemed a fire hazard. That is not a fair analysis. If AAMI had greater capacity you would get much larger crowds for the derbies. Capacity at AAMI is 30,050 currently so the crowds are close to capacity. Don't get me started on FFA gouging as well. If prices were the same as a home and away match you would get even bigger crowds again. I agree on the BBQ statement though. Bring back the sausage stand! Edited October 22, 2016 by pberrett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSeater Posted October 22, 2016 Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 I understand your thought process, but we just got 8,000 to our first home game of the season last night. A 60,000 seater is while off for us I'd say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reganconnor16 Posted October 22, 2016 Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 I feel a 60,000 seater would be more suitable for Victory, but it's a bit too much considering the point above of not even being able to fill Etihad in the derby, and I doubt they'll be willing to spend the money as long as they can still play at Etihad. A secondary stadium is a good idea, but I think City are a few years off building a new stadium due to the lack of people we get to home games. Last nights dire numbers is an exception due to the rain and traffic, I couldn't go because of that, really a shame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStig Posted October 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 (edited) Crowds vary according to the weather. That's a fact of life. In fact 8k for our team, given the weather conditions, was quite a good result. It will be interesting to see crowd numbers once the weather improves. Similarly you should not judge our needs by the crowds we get at Etihad. For a football supporter its a second rate venue made worse by the fact that the seats haven't been moved in the past few matches. And why? Because demand is so strong for seats! The formula is simple. Good product + bigger capacity rectangular stadium + no FFA gouging = big crowds. Oh and one point I forgot to mention. We should not define our rectangular stadium capacity needs by the minimum or average that we require, but by the maximum crowds one could reasonably expect at a rectangular stadium + the expected growth over the next 7 or so years. By that measure AAMI fails miserably. Edited October 22, 2016 by pberrett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris p Posted October 22, 2016 Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 AAMI park was built with foundations to be expandable to 50k but the roof would need to be completely dismantled which apparently is extremely expensive 8 hours ago, jw1739 said: Mate, check your facts before making a back-of-the envelope business case. Not even the A-League derbies fill what's available. Average home Heart/City derby - 25,607. 10% less than the capacity of AAMI Park. Last Victory home derby 43,188 in a 55,000 capacity Docklands. If someone has $250m+ to put into stadiums then put it into boutique "kit-built" stadiums of appropriate capacity for A-League clubs, not another concrete monolith where a barbeque is deemed a fire hazard. Those Derbies at aami park were sell outs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecguymer Posted October 22, 2016 Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 .....2 things come to mind: Sydney and Brisbane both have larger rectangular stadiums because there main sport uses rectangular stadium, Melbourne's main sport doesn't (and I'm pretty sure we're still third behind cricket for crowds at matches); as for a world cup stadium, the standard business model for that is that such a thing is built AFTER somewhere wins the hosting rights, not before. While it would be nice to get a bigger rectangular stadium, there really isn't enough demand to justify building another stadium of any time in central Melbourne at this point, and defiantly not another rectangular one.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris p Posted October 22, 2016 Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 13 minutes ago, ecguymer said: .....2 things come to mind: Sydney and Brisbane both have larger rectangular stadiums because there main sport uses rectangular stadium, Melbourne's main sport doesn't (and I'm pretty sure we're still third behind cricket for crowds at matches); as for a world cup stadium, the standard business model for that is that such a thing is built AFTER somewhere wins the hosting rights, not before. While it would be nice to get a bigger rectangular stadium, there really isn't enough demand to justify building another stadium of any time in central Melbourne at this point, and defiantly not another rectangular one.... Victory have close to 30,000 members and derbies regularly have over 40,000 in attendance Aussies rules and cwicket rarely fill the MCG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecguymer Posted October 22, 2016 Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 10 minutes ago, Chris p said: Victory have close to 30,000 members and derbies regularly have over 40,000 in attendance Aussies rules and cwicket rarely fill the MCG they probs fill it more often than anyone fills AAMI park; and while not ideal, when needed, we do have lager stadiums available for the relatively small number of matches that don't fit AAMI; AFL and cricket are also secondary reasons as to why the MCG has it's current capacity. Chances are, we'll see AAMI park expanded before we see another stadium built in Melbourne....and I wouldn't be surprised if the next stadium or two is a rebuild/replacement rather than an additional stadium...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesla Posted October 22, 2016 Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 13 hours ago, jw1739 said: Mate, check your facts before making a back-of-the envelope business case. Not even the A-League derbies fill what's available. Average home Heart/City derby - 25,607. 10% less than the capacity of AAMI Park. Last Victory home derby 43,188 in a 55,000 capacity Docklands. If someone has $250m+ to put into stadiums then put it into boutique "kit-built" stadiums of appropriate capacity for A-League clubs, not another concrete monolith where a barbeque is deemed a fire hazard. Those AAMI Park derbies are sellouts, it's just members, or more likely sponsors/corporates, not turning up that is leading to the lower attendance. Regardless, 3 games a year isn't going to warrant a new stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecguymer Posted October 22, 2016 Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 ....I'm also pretty sure that AAMI park has one of the lower amounts of usage of the 6 stadiums in Melbourne (though 3 do have much of there usage concentrated to 2 weeks in January), and if that's right, that isn't going to help the cause for another.....(hell, Eddie Maguire couldn't convince people that a third AFL stadium would get used enough to justify one of those, and I'm pretty sure that docklands and the MCG have far higher utilisation) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris p Posted October 22, 2016 Report Share Posted October 22, 2016 20 minutes ago, ecguymer said: ....I'm also pretty sure that AAMI park has one of the lower amounts of usage of the 6 stadiums in Melbourne (though 3 do have much of there usage concentrated to 2 weeks in January), and if that's right, that isn't going to help the cause for another.....(hell, Eddie Maguire couldn't convince people that a third AFL stadium would get used enough to justify one of those, and I'm pretty sure that docklands and the MCG have far higher utilisation) Because AFL already has two purpose built stadiums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStig Posted October 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2016 (edited) Check out these stats. A league derbies aren't the only matches where capacity has been reached. http://www.austadiums.com/stadiums/stadiums_crowds.php?id=279 Edited October 23, 2016 by pberrett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecguymer Posted October 23, 2016 Report Share Posted October 23, 2016 9 hours ago, Chris p said: Because AFL already has two purpose built stadiums no, they have one purpose build, and another that way build for other things that had similar enough requirements that AFL could be easily accommodated. and those 2 stadiums both still get way more usage than AAMI; and the AFL got a second partly because they put up the money, and mostly as they changed how they ran the competition making the existing stadium inadequate for the amount of usage it would get without a second. No one is going to build a big expensive anything without some evidence that it will actually get used, and Eddie's idea for a third AFL stadium would (unfortunatly) still get more usage than AAMI park does at present, and would get WAY more usage than a second rectangular stadium 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted October 23, 2016 Report Share Posted October 23, 2016 In summary, there is no case whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSK_47 Posted October 23, 2016 Report Share Posted October 23, 2016 10 minutes ago, jw1739 said: In summary, there is no case whatsoever. Pretty much this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris p Posted October 23, 2016 Report Share Posted October 23, 2016 2 hours ago, jw1739 said: In summary, there is no case whatsoever. The so called "sporting capital" needs the infrastructure to host the worlds biggest sport 6 hours ago, ecguymer said: no, they have one purpose build, and another that way build for other things that had similar enough requirements that AFL could be easily accommodated. and those 2 stadiums both still get way more usage than AAMI; and the AFL got a second partly because they put up the money, and mostly as they changed how they ran the competition making the existing stadium inadequate for the amount of usage it would get without a second. No one is going to build a big expensive anything without some evidence that it will actually get used, and Eddie's idea for a third AFL stadium would (unfortunatly) still get more usage than AAMI park does at present, and would get WAY more usage than a second rectangular stadium AAmi park hosts 4 teams, I doubt a 3rd AFL venue would host that many Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric forman Posted October 23, 2016 Report Share Posted October 23, 2016 On 10/22/2016 at 0:12 PM, pberrett said: I think a persuasive case can be made for the construction of a new 60,000 (expandable to 100,000) seat stadium in Melbourne. Gosch's Paddock is a potential site for such a ground. Just to confirm, you want to build the new stadium literally less than 200 meters from Aami park? Would it not be better to space out the stadiums if/when more are made? And as its previously been said there is little to no demand to build the stadium now and once we win the rights to a world cup then it will be worth considering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewConvert Posted October 23, 2016 Report Share Posted October 23, 2016 Slightly off topic but it really annoys me when the surface of any pitch is butchered to hold rock concerts, monstar truck events, etc. So when people say the stadium is under utilised, do they mean by sporting teams or by any event? TBH if I wasn't a believer in controlling government spending, I would agitate to have the money spent so that football will have its own stadium used only for football. However, that is not the policy by any political party. Also, whilst AAMI was designed to be expanded up to 60k, the architects that designed the roof made sure that the cost of doing so would be the same as building a new stadium. So next time, screw the architects and give me more utilitarianism. Finally, the AFL, aka Eddie Mc, have said that they need a smaller venue for AFL matches that are likely to attract less than 30k people. Princess park is often touted as a possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStig Posted October 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 23 hours ago, eric forman said: Just to confirm, you want to build the new stadium literally less than 200 meters from Aami park? Would it not be better to space out the stadiums if/when more are made? And as its previously been said there is little to no demand to build the stadium now and once we win the rights to a world cup then it will be worth considering. You have things around the wrong way. You build the infrastructure first and that demonstrate that you can host a World Cup thus you are more likely to get it. The stadium could be anywhere (I would love it to be at Victoria Park if only to upset Eddie) but Gosch's Paddock has plenty or room and is ideally in the sporting precinct of Melbourne with good access by public transport. I am equally happy to expand AAMI but if for the same cost you can have a new stadium why not? having two stadiums close by simply means you can have the rugby on at one whilst at the same time you have a football derby in the other. For football to grow in Melbourne it needs a bigger rectangular stadium in which to grow. cheers Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Aardvark Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 On 23/10/2016 at 6:56 PM, Chris p said: The so called "sporting capital" needs the infrastructure to host the worlds biggest sport AAmi park hosts 4 teams, I doubt a 3rd AFL venue would host that many Aami Park hosts 4 teams over a year, with only 2 in season at any one time. Besides, until the AFL comissions a third AFL venue this example is irrelevant. Currently there are 9.5 tenants using two grounds in Melbourne during the AFL season. On 22/10/2016 at 1:15 PM, pberrett said: Yes 3 A-league derbies at present. + numerous rugby matches + finals + a further 6 A - league derbies after the introduction of a 3rd A league Melbourne based team + various Socceroos matches + various ACL matches if Victory can ever get their act together) + the odd rock concert + various exhibition matches by sides such as Liverpool, Manchester City etc + the need for a bigger stadium for holding a World Cup Originally AAMI Park was only going to hold 20k but the intervention by Victory saw that increased to 30k. You need to plan ahead to cater for rapid growth in the sport rather than waiting until you have a situation as we do now where we have capacity problems. cheers Peter Rugby crowds are not consistently big enough, and the odd final or international match isn't enough to justify a whole new stadium. There are no signs of a third Melbourne A-League team, and considering the slow growth of our crowds it is difficult to assume a third crowd could get anything close to Aami's current capacity. Socceroos matches can be played elsewhere if need be. ACL matches are rare events and don't get huge crowds anyway necessarily. If they do they play them at Etihad. Why do we need another rock venue? How many bug bands are coming here that we need more stadiums than Etihad and Aami to host them? Exhibition matches have been doing fine at the world class stadium that is the MCG. Considering the earliest possible world cup we could get is 2030 it's a little early to be making that move now, and it wouldn't help meet the WC requirements anyway. 13 hours ago, pberrett said: You have things around the wrong way. You build the infrastructure first and that demonstrate that you can host a World Cup thus you are more likely to get it. The stadium could be anywhere (I would love it to be at Victoria Park if only to upset Eddie) but Gosch's Paddock has plenty or room and is ideally in the sporting precinct of Melbourne with good access by public transport. I am equally happy to expand AAMI but if for the same cost you can have a new stadium why not? having two stadiums close by simply means you can have the rugby on at one whilst at the same time you have a football derby in the other. For football to grow in Melbourne it needs a bigger rectangular stadium in which to grow. cheers Peter More empty seats won't help Football grow quicker. And even if we exclude the fact that there is no business case to make Aami bigger it costing the same is no argument to make a giant oversized stadium that will rarely if ever be filled. Besides it theoretically greatly decreases the utilisation of to excellent stadiums in Etihad and Aami for negligible gain. It would be cool to have another custom made stadium, but we already have 3 28,000+ capacity stadiums in Melbourne all capable of hosting multiple sports including football. The only time we are limited for options is ocassionally during winter due to the AFL. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris p Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 Ovals aren't built for football though and dont offer the perspective, atmosphere etc. that rectangle ones do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSK_47 Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 Lets put it this way. If it were a profitable idea it would be happening already. /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jovan Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 57 minutes ago, KSK_47 said: /thread Please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Posted October 25, 2016 Report Share Posted October 25, 2016 5 hours ago, Jovan said: Please. Mods please lock the thread. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hackett Posted October 27, 2016 Report Share Posted October 27, 2016 I don't think it is a very good idea. cheers H 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXCiTyZeNXx Posted June 5, 2017 Report Share Posted June 5, 2017 South Melbourne rumoured to be in A League in season 2018-19. Rumours of stadium being built Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embee Posted June 5, 2017 Report Share Posted June 5, 2017 1 minute ago, xXCiTyZeNXx said: South Melbourne rumoured to be in A League in season 2018-19. Rumours of stadium being built 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baka1 Posted June 5, 2017 Report Share Posted June 5, 2017 7 minutes ago, xXCiTyZeNXx said: South Melbourne rumoured to be in A League in season 2018-19. Rumours of stadium being built Bro lay off the acid 7 minutes ago, xXCiTyZeNXx said: South Melbourne rumoured to be in A League in season 2018-19. Rumours of stadium being built Bro lay off the acid 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXCiTyZeNXx Posted June 5, 2017 Report Share Posted June 5, 2017 http://www.foxsports.com.au/football/a-league/roberto-carlos-coach-south-melbourne-aleague-expansion-bid/news-story/704707853f9631607b0eac7ddbc6f08a Saw the rumour of another stadium being built on facebook like 3 days ago but cant seem to find it. Ill keep searching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n i k o Posted June 5, 2017 Report Share Posted June 5, 2017 7 minutes ago, Baka1 said: Bro lay off the acid Bro lay off the acid Bro lay off the acid I don't think twice was enough 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisphantomfortress Posted June 5, 2017 Report Share Posted June 5, 2017 Rumours of another shit post by @xXCiTyZeNXx in this thread 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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