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ACL Group G, Match 4. Jeonnam v. City, Sunday 24th April 21.00 AEST


jw1739
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Very quick turnaround to 21.00 Sunday evening so @kingofhearts can get some sleep before work the next day, and everyone can see where the big and small hands will be on the clock for kick-off.

Let's have your pre-match thoughts. We're with BG Pathum on 7 points, but with a goal difference of 6-2 as opposed to their 8-1.

Edited by jw1739
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11 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

Very quick turnaround to 21.00 Sunday evening so @kingofhearts can get some sleep before work the next day, and everyone can see where the big and small hands will be on the clock for kick-off.

Let's have your pre-match thoughts. We're with BG Pathum on 7 points, but with a goal difference of 6-2 as opposed to their 8-1.

Assuming KoH works on Anzac day.

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If we win this, I'd hazard a guess and say we're a huge chance to go through via 2nd at minimum (assuming we beat United City which we will), leaving the BG Pathum game as one that's hopefully not do or die.

The other groups are a lot more contested for 2nd so we're in a really great spot if we win this one. Gonna be tougher than we perhaps anticipated initially, but I'm confident we'll be up for it as the Dragons certainly lack poise up front.

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15 minutes ago, Nate said:

If we win this, I'd hazard a guess and say we're a huge chance to go through via 2nd at minimum (assuming we beat United City which we will), leaving the BG Pathum game as one that's hopefully not do or die.

The other groups are a lot more contested for 2nd so we're in a really great spot if we win this one. Gonna be tougher than we perhaps anticipated initially, but I'm confident we'll be up for it as the Dragons certainly lack poise up front.

FWIW only one team that notched 10 points failed to qualify last time around so i'd go as far as to say 12 points is a certainty.

image.png.219812829b68c2667b4ad9a9689bf768.png

 

The goal difference is likely only relevant if we can't beat Pathum on the second time around. They're a good side and will be worth their spot in the second round, but i'm confident we are better than them. They genuinely struggled against United last night for the bulk of the game and really it was only a goalkeeper error that gave them their 2nd goal and United then proceeded to fold like a deck of cards. 

It's also worth noting that in the event of tied points it goes to head to head record first, so if we were to beat Pathum but lose to Jeonnam we'd still go through first.

image.thumb.png.4767f18225a2dfc80e0db2a73375b41a.png

Edited by bt50
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1 hour ago, bt50 said:

FWIW only one team that notched 10 points failed to qualify last time around so i'd go as far as to say 12 points is a certainty.

image.png.219812829b68c2667b4ad9a9689bf768.png

Apparently we are currently the top ranked 2nd place team in the East Region. Ideally we'll go through top spot but it's a good sign at present... 

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1 hour ago, bt50 said:

FWIW only one team that notched 10 points failed to qualify last time around so i'd go as far as to say 12 points is a certainty.

image.png.219812829b68c2667b4ad9a9689bf768.png

 

The goal difference is likely only relevant if we can't beat Pathum on the second time around. They're a good side and will be worth their spot in the second round, but i'm confident we are better than them. They genuinely struggled against United last night for the bulk of the game and really it was only a goalkeeper error that gave them their 2nd goal and United then proceeded to fold like a deck of cards. 

It's also worth noting that in the event of tied points it goes to head to head record first, so if we were to beat Pathum but lose to Jeonnam we'd still go through first.

image.thumb.png.4767f18225a2dfc80e0db2a73375b41a.png

That's interesting. In my ignorance I had assumed that GD would be the first tiebreak mechanism, and goals scored the next. I think that that means the most important match to win in our remaining three is that against BGP? Would that be your view @bt50?

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37 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

That's interesting. In my ignorance I had assumed that GD would be the first tiebreak mechanism, and goals scored the next. I think that that means the most important match to win in our remaining three is that against BGP? Would that be your view @bt50?

Yep, same as in Italy, head to head is more important than GD.

Deserving of a thread of its own.

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41 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

That's interesting. In my ignorance I had assumed that GD would be the first tiebreak mechanism, and goals scored the next. I think that that means the most important match to win in our remaining three is that against BGP? Would that be your view @bt50?

A couple of things. 

First with respect to the second place qualifiers, the three top 2nd place finishers in East will go through. Due to the fact that Group J had a club drop out, all results against the last place team are null and void for the purposes of ranking the second place teams. This will be United in our group so in effect we will need to win one of our next two games to practically guarantee progression to the group stage. We currently lead that table at the halfway point with 4 points so its incredibly likely we'd be safe with 7.
It's more important that that win is against Pathum with respect to topping the group as well due to your above point. Head to head is the tiebreaker rather than GD if we are level with Pathum. GD only comes into it if we draw Pathum twice. In that instance we've probably already qualified via 2nd place irrespective of the United game, and we could effectively treat that as a reserves match in order to properly prepare for all important Perth game on the 4th.

As it stands the difference between finishing 1st or 2nd would mean a knockout game against Kitchee (1st), or Johor (2nd). Both winnable but Kitchee is a far, far easier prospect imo.

 

Edited by bt50
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5 minutes ago, bt50 said:

A couple of things. 

First with respect to the second place qualifiers, the three top 2nd place finishers in East will go through. Due to the fact that Group J had a club drop out, all results against the last place team are null and void for the purposes of ranking the second place teams. This will be United in our group so in effect we will need to win one of our next two games to practically guarantee progression to the group stage. We currently lead that table at the halfway point with 4 points so its incredibly likely we'd be safe with 7.
It's more important that that win is against Pathum with respect to topping the group as well due to your above point. Head to head is the tiebreaker rather than GD if we are level with Pathum. GD only comes into it if we draw Pathum twice. In that instance we've probably already qualified via 2nd place irrespective of the United game, and we could effectively treat that as a reserves match in order to properly prepare for all important Perth game on the 4th.

As it stands the difference between finishing 1st or 2nd would mean a knockout game against Kitchee (1st), or Johor (2nd). Both winnable but Kitchee is a far, far easier prospect imo.

 

And than those knock outs are in February 2023? 

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1 minute ago, fensaddler said:

So in effect in our off season, or early pre-season?

Early pre-season, around the time we'd normally start playing cup matches and friendlies. IMO would be a good investment for the club to send the team to Europe for 3 weeks beforehand and get some good quality friendlies in prior.

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31 minutes ago, bt50 said:

Early pre-season, around the time we'd normally start playing cup matches and friendlies. IMO would be a good investment for the club to send the team to Europe for 3 weeks beforehand and get some good quality friendlies in prior.

There's a few of us I imagine would relish the idea of City taking on our 'other' clubs back in Europe. Though I'd rather expect City to make easy work of the League 2 rabble I grew up supporting. 

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3 hours ago, bt50 said:

A couple of things. 

First with respect to the second place qualifiers, the three top 2nd place finishers in East will go through. Due to the fact that Group J had a club drop out, all results against the last place team are null and void for the purposes of ranking the second place teams. This will be United in our group so in effect we will need to win one of our next two games to practically guarantee progression to the group stage. We currently lead that table at the halfway point with 4 points so its incredibly likely we'd be safe with 7.
It's more important that that win is against Pathum with respect to topping the group as well due to your above point. Head to head is the tiebreaker rather than GD if we are level with Pathum. GD only comes into it if we draw Pathum twice. In that instance we've probably already qualified via 2nd place irrespective of the United game, and we could effectively treat that as a reserves match in order to properly prepare for all important Perth game on the 4th.

As it stands the difference between finishing 1st or 2nd would mean a knockout game against Kitchee (1st), or Johor (2nd). Both winnable but Kitchee is a far, far easier prospect imo.

 

Johor is one of those clubs you inexplicably write off as a classic South-East Asian minnow, but they're undefeated in a really strong group and their squad is stacked. 

On one hand, it's good to see the quality in Asia improving but on the other, it's confronting to realise how badly Australia has stagnated. I mean, we've been dominant domestically for the last 2-3 years but spluttered against a midtable side in the Korean second division. 

Reckon our winning mentality may get us deep though.

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1 hour ago, Nate said:

Johor is one of those clubs you inexplicably write off as a classic South-East Asian minnow, but they're undefeated in a really strong group and their squad is stacked. 

On one hand, it's good to see the quality in Asia improving but on the other, it's confronting to realise how badly Australia has stagnated. I mean, we've been dominant domestically for the last 2-3 years but spluttered against a midtable side in the Korean second division. 

Reckon our winning mentality may get us deep though.

I don't know what it's like in Korea and Japan or indeed other east Asian countries, but it seems Australian football is in a perpetual state of upheaval administratively and organisationally.

This cannot help progress at either a national or club level.

I may be wrong, but even at City I don't see the tight quick-fire team play that I saw last season. We seem to be playing a lot more long balls for Nabbout etc. to run on to, and our defence leaks like a colander.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, bt50 said:

A couple of things. 

First with respect to the second place qualifiers, the three top 2nd place finishers in East will go through. Due to the fact that Group J had a club drop out, all results against the last place team are null and void for the purposes of ranking the second place teams. This will be United in our group so in effect we will need to win one of our next two games to practically guarantee progression to the group stage. We currently lead that table at the halfway point with 4 points so its incredibly likely we'd be safe with 7.
It's more important that that win is against Pathum with respect to topping the group as well due to your above point. Head to head is the tiebreaker rather than GD if we are level with Pathum. GD only comes into it if we draw Pathum twice. In that instance we've probably already qualified via 2nd place irrespective of the United game, and we could effectively treat that as a reserves match in order to properly prepare for all important Perth game on the 4th.

As it stands the difference between finishing 1st or 2nd would mean a knockout game against Kitchee (1st), or Johor (2nd). Both winnable but Kitchee is a far, far easier prospect imo.

 

So @bt50 does that mean that all matches in the Group are played, and then the results of the six matches involving the fourth-placed team are expunged and the table recalculated for the matches only between the remaining three clubs? Or does the table stand for the winner of the Group and only the matches between the second-placed team and the fourth-placed team are expunged for the purposes of the selecting the "best six of the rest?"

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I've been watching Johor's games (partner's hometown team).

Probably lucky to draw with Kawasaki, but 4/6 points so far from #1 in J- and K- leagues is amazing. Home advantage has certainly helped.

Not sure if they can keep top spot, but it'd be awesome to come up against them if we end up second.

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On 22/04/2022 at 8:43 PM, jw1739 said:

So @bt50 does that mean that all matches in the Group are played, and then the results of the six matches involving the fourth-placed team are expunged and the table recalculated for the matches only between the remaining three clubs? Or does the table stand for the winner of the Group and only the matches between the second-placed team and the fourth-placed team are expunged for the purposes of the selecting the "best six of the rest?"

Each group is treated on its own merit in terms of calculating who finishes where in the group.

However when calculating the 'best 2nd placed teams' they are ranked removing the results against the 4th placed teams from the equation.

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2 minutes ago, fensaddler said:

Endoh starts in midfield with Metcalf and Gomulka. No Tilio anywhere. Bos on the wing and Griff partners Good in central defence. Pretty strong squad.

Tilio misses out due to accumulation of yellow cards. 

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Their must not be anything more demoralising, as a defender, to hold off your opposition for a long 6-7 minute period. Then, finally get a goal kick, only for your goal keeper to kick it 10m out of bounds. Sigh.

Anyway onto the game. Just a real stalemate at the moment. We need to trust ourselves to play through the press more. Our midfield has been dissapointing/ non existent, endoh needs to do more.

Would be happy with a draw but we need to continue to attack because the last thing we want to do is just try to hold on for dear life for these last 45 minutes.

 

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So it's no longer Nabhut it's now Naboh. Interesting. 

I can see this being a game where we score late against a tiring Jeonnam. They need the win more and seem to be pushing more, whereas we seem pretty content slowing the pace of the game down when we have the ball. In the heat, I'd say as long as we don't concede early in the second half, jeonnam will run out of legs and I can see us scoring late 

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56 minutes ago, haz said:

Has Maclaren ever beaten the wall? 

Against CCM at home, I think 2 seasons ago he came on as a sub after being away with the Socceroos.

He’s been out of form all season.

1 minute ago, HughJass said:

Feel sorry for Nabbout trying to deal with all the balls flying over his head or hit too far in front 

These long balls to Nabbout seems to be our main strategy forward.

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45 minutes ago, K-aram92 said:

So it's no longer Nabhut it's now Naboh. Interesting. 

I can see this being a game where we score late against a tiring Jeonnam. They need the win more and seem to be pushing more, whereas we seem pretty content slowing the pace of the game down when we have the ball. In the heat, I'd say as long as we don't concede early in the second half, jeonnam will run out of legs and I can see us scoring late 

We certainly look a little better later in the game...

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