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The church of Carl Jenkinson thread


kingofhearts
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2 hours ago, jw1739 said:

Lot of the time on the bench, also a long period out through injury. Interesting that he's on loan, meaning we have to pay him what he was getting at Forest.

There is a good chance it will be a wage split, I reckon he will play at right back tbh but then can be used as a defensive midfielder or centre back if we are really slim on numbers in those particular areas

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6 hours ago, Zanty said:

There is a good chance it will be a wage split, I reckon he will play at right back tbh but then can be used as a defensive midfielder or centre back if we are really slim on numbers in those particular areas

Perhaps APL have set different rules, but when the league was run direct by FFA there was no such thing as a wage split. Loanee wages had to be paid by the A-League club. The "Lampard Rule."

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Very tidy signing - he has fallen spectacularly out of favour with the Forrest hierarchy and hasn't been injured as far as I know. However he can definitely only play Right Back, so I'm a little confused as to the signing, because Galloway certainly hasn't been the player whose been causing us to have the issues we've had this year. 

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1 hour ago, jw1739 said:

Perhaps APL have set different rules, but when the league was run direct by FFA there was no such thing as a wage split. Loanee wages had to be paid by the A-League club. The "Lampard Rule."

I believe the wages didn't have to br paid by the loanee club, rather the entirety of the wages had to count towards the salary cap.

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5 minutes ago, malloy said:

I believe the wages didn't have to br paid by the loanee club, rather the entirety of the wages had to count towards the salary cap.

I could be wrong here, but i think that this is only the case where there is related ownership. For unrelated parties only the 'loan fee' is counted towards the cap.

Hence why it was still on the cards that we retained Ross McCormack before Villa tried to force the price up, which blew the cap restraints out.

Edited by bt50
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9 minutes ago, malloy said:

I believe the wages didn't have to br paid by the loanee club, rather the entirety of the wages had to count towards the salary cap.

Sorry, my bad, yes that was the Lampard Rule.

 

4 minutes ago, bt50 said:

I could be wrong here, but i think that this is only the case where there is related ownership. For unrelated parties only the 'loan fee' is counted towards the cap.

Hence why it was still on the cards that we retained Ross McCormack before Villa tried to force the price up, which blew the cap restraints out.

Oh, didn't know that. If so, it was more than just the "Lampard Rule," it was the "Melbourne City Rule."

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27 minutes ago, bt50 said:

I could be wrong here, but i think that this is only the case where there is related ownership. For unrelated parties only the 'loan fee' is counted towards the cap.

Hence why it was still on the cards that we retained Ross McCormack before Villa tried to force the price up, which blew the cap restraints out.

I’m really confused about this still. 

So if a player is getting $100 per week in contract wages but City pays $50 per week as a loan fee to Forrest. What counts towards the salary cap?

The Lampard rule stated the following.

Starting from season 10, FFA will apply a principle that any amount that is paid by the A-League club that goes to the player - either directly or indirectly by way of a payment to his overseas parent club - is counted under the salary cap.

Edited by Mr MO
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25 minutes ago, fensaddler said:

May be another area in which Aus does not align with custom and practice across the soccer world. Elsewhere split wage loan deals are very common, and our rules need to recognise this. As jw says, this rule was introduced purely to make life difficult for City.

Well the rest of the world doesn't have a salary cap so it's always going to be a little different of course.

42 minutes ago, Mr MO said:

I’m really confused about this still. 

So if a player is getting $100 per week in contract wages but City pays $50 per week as a loan fee to Forrest. What counts towards the salary cap?

The Lampard rule stated the following.

Starting from season 10, FFA will apply a principle that any amount that is paid by the A-League club that goes to the player - either directly or indirectly by way of a payment to his overseas parent club - is counted under the salary cap.


From what I can see it’s waged and loan fee combined what counts towards the cap.

@bt50is correct with Ross, that when Villa put up the loan fee up on top of the hefty pro rate wage Ross was on, it became impossible to fit this under the cap.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/football/a-league/teams/melbourne-city/ffa-rule-change-scuppered-melbourne-citys-move-to-chelsea-legend-sign-frank-lampard-on-loan/news-story/02d3015f81755c648646a47e5bc34997

Edited by Mr MO
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33 minutes ago, Mr MO said:

Well the rest of the world doesn't have a salary cap so it's always going to be a little different of course.


From what I can see it’s waged and loan fee combined what counts towards the cap.

@bt50is correct with Ross, that when Villa put up the loan fee up on top of the hefty pro rate wage Ross was on, it became impossible to fit this under the cap.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/football/a-league/teams/melbourne-city/ffa-rule-change-scuppered-melbourne-citys-move-to-chelsea-legend-sign-frank-lampard-on-loan/news-story/02d3015f81755c648646a47e5bc34997

Well, it's not absolutely clear to me quite yet. This is what your reference actually says:

image.png.22ad0ca5ceb3562c9d0ee2babbb4df64.png

IMO the third of the above paragraphs says that not necessarily all the player's salary is included in the salary cap.

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1 hour ago, jw1739 said:

Well, it's not absolutely clear to me quite yet. This is what your reference actually says:

image.png.22ad0ca5ceb3562c9d0ee2babbb4df64.png

IMO the third of the above paragraphs says that not necessarily all the player's salary is included in the salary cap.

They way I see it it’s just any payment towards the player either wages, expenses and or loan fees.

With Lampard and the Victory players the clubs circumvented some payments, in agreeing paying low wage and high loan fee where the wage only counted towards the cap. Now the balance doesn’t matter and everything goes towards the salary cap.

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30 minutes ago, Mr MO said:

They way I see it it’s just any payment towards the player either wages, expenses and or loan fees.

With Lampard and the Victory players the clubs circumvented some payments, in agreeing paying low wage and high loan fee where the wage only counted towards the cap. Now the balance doesn’t matter and everything goes towards the salary cap.

It would be a lot clearer if that is what the rule actually says (said). "All monies paid directly or indirectly to the loaned player..."

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  • 2 weeks later...

What do we think of Jenko having played RB on Saturday.

Different player than Galloway and Atkinson. Defensively good but very little magic in the locker going forward. Playing out mostly resulted in curved long ball forward. Almost like an uncharacteristic City fullback.

Edited by Mr MO
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Give him a little bit of time, he has only been here a week and had to play in 2 different positions. 

Also worth noting that i don't think the role of our fullbacks is particularly easy to just pick up. Jamo and Atkinson both had it drilled into them over 2 seasons and could do it, it took Galloway a while to pick it up and I don't think Garuccio ever picked it up properly when he was with us. 

Once he has had a few solid sessions with our entire squad there, I have no doubt he will be completely fine 

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14 minutes ago, neio said:

Give him a little bit of time, he has only been here a week and had to play in 2 different positions. 

Also worth noting that i don't think the role of our fullbacks is particularly easy to just pick up. Jamo and Atkinson both had it drilled into them over 2 seasons and could do it, it took Galloway a while to pick it up and I don't think Garuccio ever picked it up properly when he was with us. 

Once he has had a few solid sessions with our entire squad there, I have no doubt he will be completely fine 

Moreover I don't think Saturday's match was one on which to draw conclusions. They were at best a patched up team trying to do the best they could.

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1 hour ago, fensaddler said:

Moreover I don't think Saturday's match was one on which to draw conclusions. They were at best a patched up team trying to do the best they could.

Of course it’s early, just curious how others see it. He is however a 29 yo full time professional so shouldn’t take too long to settle in plus we don’t have the time for that.

The ideal full back for our system is a Cancello or Atkinson type of player. With Galloway being similar I’m still on the fence and puzzled with this recruitment as Jenko is just a different kind of player that is clear and we don’t have months to let players settle in either.  I think he will be much better defensively but less creative going forward.

Edited by Mr MO
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50 minutes ago, Mr MO said:

Of course it’s early, just curious how others see it. He is however a 29 yo full time professional so shouldn’t take too long to settle in plus we don’t have the time for that.

The ideal full back for our system is a Cancello or Atkinson type of player. With Galloway being similar I’m still on the fence and puzzled with this recruitment as Jenko is just a different kind of player that is clear and we don’t have months to let players settle in either.  I think he will be much better defensively but less creative going forward.

Maybe the club's anticipating a long-term return for Good and Jenkinson is cover in central defence.

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7 minutes ago, Nate said:

Maybe the club's anticipating a long-term return for Good and Jenkinson is cover in central defence.

Yeah good point…..or Good doesn’t have covid and is just waiting for his transfer to materialise.

 

Edited by Mr MO
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6 hours ago, neio said:

Give him a little bit of time, he has only been here a week and had to play in 2 different positions. 

Also worth noting that i don't think the role of our fullbacks is particularly easy to just pick up. Jamo and Atkinson both had it drilled into them over 2 seasons and could do it, it took Galloway a while to pick it up and I don't think Garuccio ever picked it up properly when he was with us. 

Once he has had a few solid sessions with our entire squad there, I have no doubt he will be completely fine 

Come on. Take the time to read up what this guy is on with Forest. He should be the stand-out player in the League right from the first touch of the ball each and every match.

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5 hours ago, jw1739 said:

Come on. Take the time to read up what this guy is on with Forest. He should be the stand-out player in the League right from the first touch of the ball each and every match.

No doubt he’s on a fair bit! I always wish we would spend that kind of money on an AM player! 

Edited by Mr MO
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