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The Manuel Pucciarelli thread


kingofhearts
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10 hours ago, The Aardvark said:

No one is saying to start him. Berengeur has been subbed off virtually every week though and Pucci has never been in the mix to replace him, even when basically half our 11 were missing. 

Im starting to think Pucci can't play. 

From what we've seen in the cup he was nothing special. 

We all assume he is a 10, second striker type or playing the Luna role but maybe he's not very good?

Gomulka who I think has promise came on for Berenguer which says to me the entire coaching team have same opinion. He can't be injured, as he wouldn't be in the squad. 

Very puzzling and until he plays the conjecture will increase. 

With the new Japanese bloke coming will probably push him further down.

Edited by Jovan
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1 hour ago, Jovan said:

Im starting to think Pucci can't play. 

From what we've seen in the cup he was nothing special. 

We all assume he is a 10, second striker type or playing the Luna role but maybe he's not very good?

Gomulka who I think has promise came on for Berenguer which says to me the entire coaching team have same opinion. He can't be injured, as he wouldn't be in the squad. 

Very puzzling and until he plays the conjecture will increase. 

With the new Japanese bloke coming will probably push him further down.

And interesting that Endoh plays in the position we had earmarked for Pucci...

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12 hours ago, jw1739 said:

The thing that is not right about the Pucciarelli issue is that PK cannot or will not give a straight answer when questioned. Listen to any EPL manager, for example, when questioned about a player and they will openly say something like he's working hard at training, he's match fit, but our forward line is functioning so well that I'm leaving the team as it is for now," or perhaps "He's been out with COVID and is taking longer than expected to shake off some lingering fatigue," or some other detailed response about a hamstring, knee, muscle soreness etc. PK is not doing that. He just mumbles an incoherent meandering answer that is no answer at all, and therefore IMO it's perfectly reasonable to conclude that he doesn't have an answer.

I would say that he does have an answer but it may not be an answer to the liking of supporters. It may raise issues of his involvement in the squad, systematic problems or player/manager clash points etc. Hence the avoidance. 

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20 minutes ago, n i k o said:

I would say that he does have an answer but it may not be an answer to the liking of supporters. It may raise issues of his involvement in the squad, systematic problems or player/manager clash points etc. Hence the avoidance. 

IMO after four months better to get any real issues out in the open. Supporters like to be emotionally invested in a football club, not just customers or consumers. Getting something out in the open is the first step in resolving it.

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1 hour ago, jw1739 said:

IMO after four months better to get any real issues out in the open. Supporters like to be emotionally invested in a football club, not just customers or consumers. Getting something out in the open is the first step in resolving it.

I was going to reply in agreement, which i still do but I'll also add that if its out in the open between the parties involved then its not necessary anyone outside that with no say or knowledge about the situation needs to know. Maybe it simply comes down to courtesy to your fan base more than anything. 

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6 hours ago, kingofhearts said:

This guy was amazing tonight, definitely the man of the match. Money well spent

How many minutes tonight?

With a minimum of $400k to $500k per season the club should give us free memberships next year. If money is that easily wasted I rather get some people for free in the stands than an expensive designated player on the bench. 

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Did I miss the club rule that every season we have to have a visa player basically not play for one reason or another. Every year we have one

Pucciarelli, Tsubaki, Cabrera/Hendry, Fornaroli, Carrusca/Budzinski, Sorenson, Hughes

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2 hours ago, neio said:

Did I miss the club rule that every season we have to have a visa player basically not play for one reason or another. Every year we have one

Pucciarelli, Tsubaki, Cabrera/Hendry, Fornaroli, Carrusca/Budzinski, Sorenson, Hughes

...and then regularly play players like Meeuwis who looked like they'd only ever watched football on television

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8 minutes ago, fensaddler said:

I suspect we will never see him again. What a waste of money...

Can only blame the club and PK.

Designated, player, visa and handpicked.

A visa player being disappointing on the field is bad but this is another level.

Obviously there is more going on than “he doesn’t work hard enough at training”

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36 minutes ago, fensaddler said:

I suspect we will never see him again. What a waste of money...

 

23 minutes ago, Mr MO said:

Can only blame the club and PK.

Designated, player, visa and handpicked.

A visa player being disappointing on the field is bad but this is another level.

Obviously there is more going on than “he doesn’t work hard enough at training”

For some reason this situation makes me feel very angry. What an absolute waste. Of everyone's time and money, and what a let-down for us, the supporters, who looked forward to seeing him in action. We could have kept Noone.

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25 minutes ago, Tommykins said:

Or he simply hasn't been good enough. 

Is that still an acceptable excuse?

We handpick a designated player in a league where salary cap management is imperative and squad depth ways heavy on the congested schedule.

We can’t act like we’ve just taken a punt on a NPL player.

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6 minutes ago, Mr MO said:

Is that still an acceptable excuse?

We handpick a designated player in a league where salary cap management is imperative and squad depth ways heavy on the congested schedule.

We can’t act like we’ve just taken a punt on a NPL player.

But tbf from where he cane from is pretty much European NPL level. 

He is obviously in top few for our team but this is basically what we get from Europe. 

What is glaring is that generally speaking we didn't have many visa fails lately. 

Just need to accept he just didn't workout and hope the Jap bloke isn't a spud.

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14 hours ago, kingofhearts said:

How can we know if he's any good if he hasn't even been given a proper chance in games?

I agree that pucci hasn’t been given enough of a go but in the 10 minutes of Endoh last night already feel he fits our press so much better than Pucci 

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2 hours ago, Missing_Moy said:

I agree that pucci hasn’t been given enough of a go but in the 10 minutes of Endoh last night already feel he fits our press so much better than Pucci 

Same.

I watched him during that game at Bentleigh and was very average. 

Obviously you can't judge a bloke from a game and a few minutes. 

But the coaches will be working with him everyday and they are the ones with the decision to make.

What I think is rustling some jimmies is the time afforded to Leckie early on. His first 3 or 4 games were very poor by his standards and even compared to his his last 3. And FWIW i still think Leckie is just getting to some level of form, when he clicks he will monster games.

Anyway getting back to Pucci, I think for whatever reason he is just not suited/good enough. I don't buy the personality clash angle, i reackon as a player he just doesn't fit.

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28 minutes ago, Jovan said:

Anyway getting back to Pucci, I think for whatever reason he is just not suited/good enough. I don't buy the personality clash angle, i reackon as a player he just doesn't fit.

So we didn't do our homework on a "designated player?" That's just not good enough from an overall club perspective or from the so-called global scouting network of CFG.

Edited by jw1739
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5 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

So we didn't do our homework on a "designated player?" That's just not good enough from an overall club perspective or the so-called global scouting network of CFG.

That’s it, that annoys me most and some don’t realise this, we have player here on over $500k per season. Which can be potentially be the difference come seasons end. 7 games in 21 days coming up and we aren’t using our salary house properly.

At least in the past the club and fans could judge a player in games, not even the case now.

Edited by Mr MO
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2 hours ago, Mr MO said:

That’s it, that annoys me most and some don’t realise this, we have player here on over $500k per season. Which can be potentially be the difference come seasons end. 7 games in 21 days coming up and we aren’t using our salary house properly.

At least in the past the club and fans could judge a player in games, not even the case now.

Assuming he is on 500K per season, do you seriously think your going to get a "marquee level" player. 

 

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2 hours ago, Jovan said:

Assuming he is on 500K per season, do you seriously think your going to get a "marquee level" player. 

 

Let me turn the question around; for that money do you buy yourself 20 minutes of football and taking up a visa and squad spot?

Yes, for that money you buy yourself a competitive player as it’s out of the cap even if it’s $300k. That is a lot of money within a salary capped league, with $2.5mil to spend for the rest of team.

“From next season, clubs will also be able to add a "designated player" whose salary will also not count in the cap. This "designated player" must have a salary that falls between $300,000 and $600,000 per season”

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59 minutes ago, Mr MO said:

Let me turn the question around; for that money do you buy yourself 20 minutes of football and taking up a visa and squad spot?

Yes, for that money you buy yourself a competitive player as it’s out of the cap even if it’s $300k. That is a lot of money within a salary capped league, with $2.5mil to spend for the rest of team.

“From next season, clubs will also be able to add a "designated player" whose salary will also not count in the cap. This "designated player" must have a salary that falls between $300,000 and $600,000 per season”

What I'm saying is 500K per season is not marquee level.

500K is going to get you a lower level tier 2 player. 

Berenguer type, and no disrespect but he is from French div 2. 

So yeah its a waste if they don't play but ultimately you get what you pay for. 

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1 minute ago, Jovan said:

What I'm saying is 500K per season is not marquee level.

500K is going to get you a lower level tier 2 player. 

Berenguer type, and no disrespect but he is from French div 2. 

So yeah its a waste if they don't play but ultimately you get what you pay for. 

Sure but he isn’t marquee is he, not sure why we are making this comparison. Berenguer almost played every game available in recent years, much to frustration in earlier years.

I hope you can at least agree that the salary range of a designed player is of the level for starting player in this league. Next to this he is also taking up a visa spot. 

Nothing to do with “you get what you pay for” as stated above. We got this completely wrong.

 

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52 minutes ago, Jovan said:

What I'm saying is 500K per season is not marquee level.

500K is going to get you a lower level tier 2 player. 

Berenguer type, and no disrespect but he is from French div 2. 

So yeah its a waste if they don't play but ultimately you get what you pay for. 

Surely the category of "designated player" was introduced to improve the standard of football in the League - not only by signing a third player outside the cap for his own quality, but to allow for the players under the cap to be of better quality too? Irrespective of what we pay marquees I would have expected a designated player to be a starting player, and if that is not the case - for whatever reason - then we got the signing completely wrong.

It's worth reading again what we actually said when we announced the signing. 
https://melbournecityfc.com.au/news/melbourne-city-signs-italian-attacking-midfielder-manuel-pucciarelli. That is Petrillo waxing eloquent over the signing. So what went wrong?

Edited by jw1739
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14 hours ago, Jovan said:

What I'm saying is 500K per season is not marquee level.

500K is going to get you a lower level tier 2 player. 

Berenguer type, and no disrespect but he is from French div 2. 

So yeah its a waste if they don't play but ultimately you get what you pay for. 

$500K would surely be enough to poach all but the top three players at any other A-League club. Thats the level he should be compared against. 

Obviously even if he was on a minimum wage contract like Jordan Hall he would be considered a fail, so to have that much money wasted when it could be invested in upgrading Sutton into actual competition with Glover for instance is dissapointing. 

 

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17 hours ago, Mr MO said:

Sure but he isn’t marquee is he, not sure why we are making this comparison. Berenguer almost played every game available in recent years, much to frustration in earlier years.

I hope you can at least agree that the salary range of a designed player is of the level for starting player in this league. Next to this he is also taking up a visa spot. 

Nothing to do with “you get what you pay for” as stated above. We got this completely wrong.

 

Reason I brought up the Berenguer comparison that after his fist season even 2 from memory, many would have said he was a fail. And I'm assuming he is on the 400-500k wage.

But I'll go back to what i was trying to point out, obviously badly. 500k is going to get a very average player, probably mid table Serie B, French Div 2, etc. These types of players are really hit and miss, mostly miss.

Thinking about it, we have had more success with South Americans on this level of money.

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1 hour ago, Jovan said:

Reason I brought up the Berenguer comparison that after his fist season even 2 from memory, many would have said he was a fail. And I'm assuming he is on the 400-500k wage.

But I'll go back to what i was trying to point out, obviously badly. 500k is going to get a very average player, probably mid table Serie B, French Div 2, etc. These types of players are really hit and miss, mostly miss.

Thinking about it, we have had more success with South Americans on this level of money.

I don’t think you are explaining it badly but I think you are overestimating on how much players actually earn in the lower divisions of Europe and what that gets you here in Australia.

Some of us look at $500k, and put this in perspective of the $2.5m salary cap and come to conclusion that this type of pay belongs to a starting player in our league. This isn’t just a random number plugged out of thin air to take punt on.

Perhaps, you are drawing the conclusion of some of our failures in the past. Have now generally accepted that visa players can be a gamble, even though we did well in recent seasons and irrespective of the pay levels. Luna was on less for example.

When your designated player belongs to the top 5 highest squad players, for me there is no excuse. Mind you it doesn’t even need to a be visa player.

Edited by Mr MO
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I guess I'm more forgiving of both the player and the club.

At the end of the day there are so many variables at play, and we are talking about a persons ability under as above mentioned variables.

Yes 500k is huge amount and yes because of the amount there should be far less room for error, and yes this player should walk into a team and boss a game, but from our experiences it just doesn't happen. 

Overseas players are IMO the biggest risk in building a squad,  but get it right greatest reward.

 

Edited by Jovan
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5 minutes ago, Jovan said:

I guess I'm more forgiving. 

At the end of the day there are so many variables at play, and we are talking about a persons ability under as above mentioned variables.

Yes 500k is huge amount and yes because of the amount there should be far less room for error, and yes this player should walk into a team and boss a game, but from our experiences it just doesn't happen. 

Overseas players are IMO the biggest risk in building a squad,  but get it right greatest reward.

 

Out of interest to see how other clubs are faring. Did the league actually present a list with marquees and designated players? 

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5 minutes ago, Jovan said:

I guess I'm more forgiving. 

At the end of the day there are so many variables at play, and we are talking about a persons ability under as above mentioned variables.

Yes 500k is huge amount and yes because of the amount there should be far less room for error, and yes this player should walk into a team and boss a game, but from our experiences it just doesn't happen. 

Overseas players are IMO the biggest risk in building a squad,  but get it right greatest reward.

IMO what hurts most is that we've (apparently) used our two marquee places on Australians, and that made it important that if we went for a designated player from overseas we needed to get it right. And we appear not to have done so.

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On 28/02/2022 at 2:08 PM, Jovan said:

Reason I brought up the Berenguer comparison that after his fist season even 2 from memory, many would have said he was a fail. And I'm assuming he is on the 400-500k wage.

But I'll go back to what i was trying to point out, obviously badly. 500k is going to get a very average player, probably mid table Serie B, French Div 2, etc. These types of players are really hit and miss, mostly miss.

Thinking about it, we have had more success with South Americans on this level of money.

If i was hazarding a guess re Flo's wage over the four seasons and into next, my guesstimates would be

2018/19  500k front ended marquee deal over 2 seasons

2019/20  150k 

2020/21  200k

2021/22  150k

2022/23  300k

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