City Football Group (CFG) [Owner of Melbourne City]

[haz]

Out of all our goals as City, this has to be one of my favourites. The most ironic thing?.... It screams CFG goal! Simple, but smart passes. One touch. Forward movement.

(#7)

 

Edited November 27, 2018 by haz

[playmaker]

1 hour ago, bt50 said:

some of our fans couldn't tell their arse from their elbow when it comes to diagnosing or analysing anything.

Like who?

I think most of the posters here are spot on with their analysis of why we are in this position as a club every year.

What's your view on the situation and how does it differ?

[haz]

3 minutes ago, playmaker said:

Like who?

Social media.

Edited November 27, 2018 by haz

[neio]

I know I'm probably in the minority here but I actually don't mind is being owned by CFG and their overall vision of us. Would I like to get the big names and win the next 10 titles, of course but that's not going to happen. 

We are and always going to be a feeder for Man City and I personally really enjoy seeing our players like mooy, arzani, behich (I know he was heart not city) doing their stuff overseas

The only thing is there needs to be more of a balance of being a success here and being a feeder club entirely. We all know the quality of visa players we could get is much better than what we get. Every season there is 1 that is a complete flop. Balance that with the best young aussie kids and a few mature aged aussies who have been in the aleague and we should have a title competing squad every year

[HeartOfCity]

13 hours ago, haz said:

Out of all our goals as City, this has to be one of my favourites. The most ironic thing?.... It screams CFG goal! Simple, but smart passes. One touch. Forward movement.

(#7)

 

My god what have we become 😭 

Just want this every game, JVS, Warren Joyce or Aloisi. No fucks who delivers it! What a player! 

[Bob Latchford]

19 hours ago, neio said:

I know I'm probably in the minority here but I actually don't mind is being owned by CFG and their overall vision of us. Would I like to get the big names and win the next 10 titles, of course but that's not going to happen. 

We are and always going to be a feeder for Man City and I personally really enjoy seeing our players like mooy, arzani, behich (I know he was heart not city) doing their stuff overseas

The only thing is there needs to be more of a balance of being a success here and being a feeder club entirely. We all know the quality of visa players we could get is much better than what we get. Every season there is 1 that is a complete flop. Balance that with the best young aussie kids and a few mature aged aussies who have been in the aleague and we should have a title competing squad every year

On paper before the start of the season, it looked like we had exactly this, minus a back-up striker which I daresay they planned to use Wales for. MOH going down in pre-season and Florin being better suited inside rather than on the wing has left us light and pushed Wales out wide. 

McGree, Wales, Atkinson, Najjarine and the old heads of Griffiths, Brattan, Vidosic, Jamieson, Bruno, Bart and Galekovic on paper should have City in the top 2. 

If the cap gets binned, I can see CFG making a decent play at the a-league and trying to keep players like Bart in the squad well past this season, as he's far too good to be playing in Australia in the first place. 

It took NYCFC a couple of years to get roaring and now they've only been beaten in the Semi-Final by an Atlanta team bursting with talent.

[n i k o]

9 minutes ago, Bob Latchford said:

On paper before the start of the season, it looked like we had exactly this, minus a back-up striker which I daresay they planned to use Wales for. MOH going down in pre-season and Florin being better suited inside rather than on the wing has left us light and pushed Wales out wide. 

McGree, Wales, Atkinson, Najjarine and the old heads of Griffiths, Brattan, Vidosic, Jamieson, Bruno, Bart and Galekovic on paper should have City in the top 2. 

If the cap gets binned, I can see CFG making a decent play at the a-league and trying to keep players like Bart in the squad well past this season, as he's far too good to be playing in Australia in the first place. 

It took NYCFC a couple of years to get roaring and now they've only been beaten in the Semi-Final by an Atlanta team bursting with talent.

Assuming we continue to struggle this season we will be going into our 6th season under CFG next year. NYCFC starting to do well after a couple years doesn't make me feel optimistic when comparing our half decade of underperforming. 

[rass]

I think it's obvious what they need to do - and they would know it as well.

They went through a review process with Roy after correctly identifying a soft culture within the playing/coaching group.

They then acted accordingly on Roy's recommendations and brought in a hard arsed coach, who also fits in with their mission to nurture and groom young talent.

On the surface, Joyce would have seemed the perfect candidate. However, as often happens with these decisions, they over-adjusted and have ended up with a coach who has us playing boring football and will not tolerate any criticism/difference in opinion from senior players. Only the young talent metric is the one that he seems to be delivering on.

They would know what they need now in terms of the right coach as they have ample evidence over the past few seasons as to what is required.

HOWEVER, will they act on this or are they too proud to admit they're wrong? ....and if they do, when will it happen? The longer they take, the more damage they're doing to their supporter base, player morale and marketability of the club.

For all our sake, let's hope they make the decision and get the right coach asap before everything falls apart terminally.

 

Edited November 28, 2018 by rass

[citypool]

From what I’ve heard and seen NYCFC shits on us in every way. I think we need a marquee player badly to show cfg care about us. David villa not playing ten games was really disappointing 

[Bob Latchford]

3 minutes ago, n i k o said:

Assuming we continue to struggle this season we will be going into our 6th season under CFG next year. NYCFC starting to do well after a couple years doesn't make me feel optimistic when comparing our half decade of underperforming. 

I guess the main difference here is that CFG took over an existing club with Heart. NYCFC was theirs from the start and they employed every single person in the building. I'm sure we're all aware of some head honchos at Melb City now that, if it wasn't for them being at the club during Heart, would be nowhere near these positions now...

[jw1739]

3 minutes ago, Bob Latchford said:

I guess the main difference here is that CFG took over an existing club with Heart. NYCFC was theirs from the start and they employed every single person in the building. I'm sure we're all aware of some head honchos at Melb City now that, if it wasn't for them being at the club during Heart, would be nowhere near these positions now...

...after another four years I would have thought that any incompetence at Heart would have been removed long ago. My take is that many of the personnel now at City are not much better, if at all, than who we had back then.

Edited November 28, 2018 by jw1739

[n i k o]

1 minute ago, Bob Latchford said:

I guess the main difference here is that CFG took over an existing club with Heart. NYCFC was theirs from the start and they employed every single person in the building. I'm sure we're all aware of some head honchos at Melb City now that, if it wasn't for them being at the club during Heart, would be nowhere near these positions now...

By that thinking then it is an obvious problem that Sorian and Marwood have failed to address and have continued to appoint these people at Melbourne City. Whatever way I look at it it comes back to being a top management issue at the club. 

[rayv36]

1 hour ago, citypool said:

From what I’ve heard and seen NYCFC shits on us in every way. I think we need a marquee player badly to show cfg care about us. David villa not playing ten games was really disappointing 

Have a read of NYCFC forum, it pretty much echoes this forum. eg;

CFG kinda makes us suck, but at the same time, without them we wouldn't be where we are. They started us up, now let's break off of them and find an ATL-esque owner who cares about the team rather than the money, and let's get on with things the way they should be going.

It's going to be funny as hell when Torrent leads this team to MLS Cup in 6 weeks and we all pretend we weren't dragging him mercilessly the last several weeks of the season.

I know our form hasnt been great lately but the pessimism in here is driving me insane.

You seen the product on the field?

Edited November 28, 2018 by rayv36

[Dylan]

We really missed an opportunity missing out on Pingata IMO

[Imtellingyou]

Everything is folding out for the Melbourne third team to become second team.

[rass]

35 minutes ago, Imtellingyou said:

Everything is folding out for the Melbourne third team to become second team.

I still reckon Melbourne won't get a third team, but with new admin, who knows...

Anyway, I'm really starting to think the best solution is to get rid of both of them. Get a new manager and 2 strikers in January and start again.

[Dylan]

1 hour ago, rass said:

I still reckon Melbourne won't get a third team, but with new admin, who knows...

Anyway, I'm really starting to think the best solution is to get rid of both of them. Get a new manager and 2 strikers in January and start again.

3rd Melbourne team is nailed on. Its out of Team 11 and the West Melb bid. It will be one bid from Sydney and one from Melb.

If I were CFG id be getting on the front foot and establish some kind of Geographical area that City can say ok were from here etc etc.

. The two Melb bids clearly will so I would want to get in before Victory decides to

 

Edited November 30, 2018 by Dylan

[jw1739]

1 hour ago, rass said:

I still reckon Melbourne won't get a third team, but with new admin, who knows...

Anyway, I'm really starting to think the best solution is to get rid of both of them. Get a new manager and 2 strikers in January and start again.

Understand where you're coming from, but I don't agree. What that would do is perpetuate the absence of any capacity or process for conflict resolution in the City Football Group. Until that capacity is introduced we will see this dictatorial behaviour repeated over and over again. This is just the latest episode showing how rotten the administration of the club and the Group is, right to the top. Not only players have suffered - look at the casualty rate in Assistant Coaches.

 

[rass]

22 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

Understand where you're coming from, but I don't agree. What that would do is perpetuate the absence of any capacity or process for conflict resolution in the City Football Group. Until that capacity is introduced we will see this dictatorial behaviour repeated over and over again. This is just the latest episode showing how rotten the administration of the club and the Group is, right to the top. Not only players have suffered - look at the casualty rate in Assistant Coaches.

 

I agree, there's definitely something rotten in there and there needs to be some accountability high up.

Reason I said about both is I just don't know how much of a role in this bust up Bruno has played himself. We're all reacting on here Iike he's been an angel through this. I definitely agree that Joyce's man management is woeful and that he should go - but does that absolve Bruno completely? I honestly don't know. I think the Sydney story line is BS, same with the skin fold excuse, so there must be something else. Granted Joyce has a track record now of shafting players though...

Again, I don't know the answer which is why I'm not putting all my eggs in the one basket at this point.

Edited November 30, 2018 by rass

[AntiScum]

On 11/27/2018 at 2:53 PM, cadete said:

Munn also has always been a massive JVS fan dispute results... City should have started as I said at the time by throwing everything at Graham Arnold when it was known he was leaving the Central Coast, TBH I was then and still are baffled what this logically did not occur considering CFG's wealth.

And I was right because lot things would be very different now if they had done this... MHFC got of to a shit start and MCFC then employed the exact same team of Munn and JVS when getting a second chance of a new begging and the same problems with attracting support exist. Talk about not taking anything out of History.

Highly Agree!!!

City didnt know what they got themselves into when they bought Heart. A struggling club should of started out with a clean sweep from top to bottom from day one. Relocate Manchester staff for the first year, got their shit together and chased the best CEO, Coach, players the country had to offer. IMO city will always be a basket case and once a new Melbourne team gets it license City may aswell close its doors. Pretty brutal assessment of MY OWN OPINION but ive been around long enough to see the writing on the wall. 

Not wait 3 years the bring out Roy Hodgson to do a review. The place is toxic from top to bottom.

[cadete]

18 minutes ago, AntiScum said:

Highly Agree!!!

City didnt know what they got themselves into when they bought Heart. A struggling club should of started out with a clean sweep from top to bottom from day one. Relocate Manchester staff for the first year, got their shit together and chased the best CEO, Coach, players the country had to offer. IMO city will always be a basket case and once a new Melbourne team gets it license City may aswell close its doors. Pretty brutal assessment of MY OWN OPINION but ive been around long enough to see the writing on the wall. 

Not wait 3 years the bring out Roy Hodgson to do a review. The place is toxic from top to bottom.

I have meet Scott Munn a number of times in the Heart days and he seems a reasonable nice enough bloke and assisted YSIDE far more than the PPL in his position at other clubs did for their respective Active Support at the time. Since then I know he has fallen much more inline with FFA Head Office on such topics.

However, I still dont know how he has his job because when its comes Sport CEO's even the best in the AFL and NRL get turned over a fair bit... in fact a lot. 

The AFL in Australia is the Premier League for those who work these positions (Sheer Club Support Numbers makes this undeniable) and a lot of the better known CEO's have CV's with several clubs like an Old Fashioned English EPL Manager whose been around since the early 2000's.

Munn himself got his job with Heart because he was a AFL CEO for the Gold Coast Suns before the entered they AFL... Now considering the Suns are in a crippling Late Melbourne Heart like position its now been years of him being a Sport Administrator with out much too point to as a good body of work. Its great he took a pay cut for Heart but at the end of day  if this was the AFL he simply would not have his job at all.

The reality is the guy has been their for the formation of: The Gold Coast Suns, MHFC, and MCFC... after the first two you think it be established he is not good at being a CEO for a new sport club and this has been proven the case with City - shown most clearly by the re-appointment of JVS something that did help MHFC when it began.

Edited November 30, 2018 by cadete

[AntiScum]

42 minutes ago, rass said:

I agree, there's definitely something rotten in there and there needs to be some accountability high up.

Reason I said about both is I just don't know how much of a role in this bust up Bruno has played himself. We're all reacting on here Iike he's been an angel through this. I definitely agree that Joyce's man management is woeful and that he should go - but does that absolve Bruno completely? I honestly don't know. I think the Sydney story line is BS, same with the skin fold excuse, so there must be something else. Granted Joyce has a track record now of shafting players though...

Again, I don't know the answer which is why I'm not putting all my eggs in the one basket at this point.

All ill say in regards to Bruno is, all you need to do is look at his celebration when he scored his first to get the monkey off his back how much the club means to him!!

I can put a bet on with you right now that Bruno would of challenged Joyce (in one way or another) in training and Joyce would of lost his shit and threw the toys out the cot!!!

Bruno is a very intelligent footballer!!

8 minutes ago, cadete said:

I have meet Scott Munn a number of times in the Heart days and he seems a reasonable nice enough bloke and assisted YSIDE far more than the PPL in his position at other clubs did for their respective Active Support at the time. Since then I know he has fallen much more inline with FFA Head Office on such topics.

However, I still dont know how he has his job because when its comes Sport CEO's even the best in the AFL and NRL get turned over a fair bit... in fact a lot. 

The AFL in Australia is the Premier League for those who work these positions (Sheer Club Support Numbers makes this undeniable) and a lot of the better known CEO's have CV's with several clubs like an Old Fashioned English EPL Manager whose been around since the early 2000's.

Munn himself got his job with Heart because he was a AFL CEO for the Gold Coast Suns before the entered they AFL... Now considering the Suns are in a crippling Late Melbourne Heart like position its now been years of him being a Sport Administrator with out much too point to as a good body of work. Its great he took a pay cut for Heart but at the end of day  if this was the AFL he simply would not have his job at all.

The reality is the guy has been their for the formation of: The Gold Coast Suns, MHFC, and MCFC... after the first two you think it be established he is not good at being a CEO for a new sport club and this has been proven the case with City - shown most clearly by the re-appointment of JVS something that did help MHFC when it began.

Suns fail Munn

Heart Fail Munn

City Failing Munn

Good Morning Manchester!!

[CityBoyz]

 

Look at Perth last season under Lowe a embarrassment. Peter Filopoulos was a good CEO but wanted to go home to Melbourne.

So what do Perth do show ambition get Poppa and one of the best CEO in Pignata and look what happens on top of the table. 

It all starts from the top in regards to Scott Munn and filters down to Warren we need both gone and a refresh. 

 

[JMSTEP123]

What really pisses me off this this false dichotemy that seems to be both explicit and implicit in so much rhetoric from the club:

Either you invest and develop youth at the expense of league dominance, or you dominate the league at the expense of developing youth.

The way I see it, if you truly want to develop youth you surround them and train them with the best. And you do not have to look further afield from the best teams in the world to see this at work - look at Foden and Diaz at Man City.

Arzani and Mooy are quality, but also products of their environment. Mooy was rejected at youth but look where he is now. Arzani came through from AIS, and left after a short stint. Both players played in teams that allowed their dominance to shine. Both, I would say, were the prime movers of their respective seasons and were key to the tactics and flow of the season.

Who now? Wales - no. Baccus - no. I know some youth will do well, but these players need to fit into the squad. With the dilly dallying, lack of cohesion and attack, and now NO target man... these players will fade into the background. I am not doubting their quality, it just will not show under the current system and with Joyce at the helm (who I have no doubt has a good eye for youth talent). 

So, it CFG is reading this - or for anyone else. Every season prior has felt progressive, that we were building. Despite our failures, we knew we could be competitive. After successful years of underperformance, CFG has instead insisted that investing in Marquee or decent squad is not a worthwhile investment. I challenge them on this point. Look at your current model. Youth will flourish with quality teammates and under a successful club that can compete in Asia and lift silverwear. 

Currently, youth are attracted to City for their pathway; playing in the domestic team under the current climate seems like a backwards step. 

Destroy this false dichotomy. It is not either, it is both. Both are worthy investments. 

[Imtellingyou]

We need an owner for whom this club will be number one priority.  

[Shahanga]

20 hours ago, Imtellingyou said:

We need an owner for whom this club will be number one priority.  

Not owners who’s sole purpose is to distract the world  from how they treat women, gays, Jews and any other group they don’t like.

[jw1739]

20 hours ago, Imtellingyou said:

We need an owner for whom this club will be number one priority.  

You could argue that the owners of both Brisbane and Newcastle don't have the A-League as their priority, but they don't seem to be the shambles that we are at present, although both have been through tough times in the past. I don't like multiple ownership of football clubs, but I'd like to see our owners' priority for us to be winning rather than be a feeder club.

[neio]

1 hour ago, jw1739 said:

You could argue that the owners of both Brisbane and Newcastle don't have the A-League as their priority, but they don't seem to be the shambles that we are at present, although both have been through tough times in the past. I don't like multiple ownership of football clubs, but I'd like to see our owners' priority for us to be winning rather than be a feeder club.

I think brisbane have had their fair share of problems with their owners. Players not getting paid can't help. 

[Dylan]

Quote

 

Melbourne City have a massive image problem

Mike Tuckerman
The Roar

Warren Joyce is a genius, and after dropping the most popular player in Melbourne City’s history, he’s won the public relations battle now and forever.
I’m just kidding, of course. City’s 3-0 win over the Newcastle Jets on Sunday evening will do little to paper over the growing fractures in the club’s façade.

However, there are those who believe that the only way the A-League will prosper is if we all say something positive, so well done to Joyce for tuning out the noise and getting his team to play as if Sunday’s clash was business as usual. 

But for those of us who live in the real world – and ten years to the day since I started writing for The Roar, I’m still only interested in calling things as I see them – Melbourne City have a genuine image problem.

Or perhaps we’re supposed to ignore the fact that a crowd of just 6,013 bothered to turn up at AAMI Park.

And that City’s home end – the Melburnians – staged a protest during the game.

And that their inaugural player of the year and subsequent club employee, Clint Bolton, bagged them on SEN Afternoons in the build-up to Sunday’s game.

“It’s not a Bruno Fornaroli issue, it’s a Warren Joyce issue,” Bolton told SEN’s Brett Phillips on Friday afternoon.

“Ultimately, when Warren Joyce fronts up to the media and gives excuses around certain players as to why they’re not playing which don’t add up, the focus should be on Warren Joyce and not Bruno Fornaroli in this situation.” 

Tell us what you really think, Bootsa!

The state of City’s plight was probably best summed up by commentator Brenton Speed when he revealed that Fox Sports’ live feed was being censored before being transmitted onto the big screens at AAMI Park. 

City, it seems, weren’t happy with images of Fornaroli sitting in the stands being beamed out to their disgruntled supporter base.

“Credit to Melbourne City for still playing Happy Together” quipped Twitter user Declan Rooney of the club’s suddenly ironic walk-out song.

For all the original concerns about City monopolising the A-League once the City Football Group bought the club, the opposite has essentially proved true.

Instead of becoming an A-League juggernaut, City are nothing more than the bottom rung of a global chain whose focus is concentrated on Abu Dhabi and Manchester and New York.

They’re Manchester City-lite – except without any Manchester City players.

And Melbourne City’s irrelevance is exemplified by the fact that after more than 120 appearances for New York City, Spanish legend David Villa has found himself a new home.

Is he going to add to his four loan appearances in the A-League? Of course not.

He’s just joined Japanese club Vissel Kobe.

If Fornaroli does ultimately move on – and it’s worth acknowledging that the Uruguayan was hardly a household name before City plucked him from Danubio – then the club should move heaven and earth to sign a genuine marquee striker.

Because if they don’t, it will signal what many have long suspected to be true: that the City Football Group don’t particularly care about what’s going on in Melbourne – unless, of course, they can move on more players like Aaron Mooy and Daniel Arzani.  

Full credit, at least, to the likes of Riley McGree, Luke Brattan and Lachlan Wales – who all scored superb individual goals against the Jets.

It’s just a shame so few people saw them.

Quite a few more will have watched Melbourne Victory thump Western Sydney Wanderers 4-0 on Saturday night, and Keisuke Honda’s post-match interview arguably summed up the difference between the two Melbourne clubs.

When asked by Michael Zappone why he continued to press in the 92nd minute of the game, Honda summed it up perfectly.

“It doesn’t matter to me about the result. It’s important how we can make people happy here, because I think football is entertainment.”

City were entertaining enough against the Jets. But right now they resemble a club ready to throw their full support behind the captain of a sinking ship.

 

Quote

 

 

[citypool]

We are the furthest away from victory I have ever seen they are aiming for 30k members and another spell in the champions league. We can’t hit 12k for members are players are leaving and I really don’t know what will happen when team 11 come in 

[jw1739]

This Forum has been saying these things ever since the original David Villa fiasco and the early euphoria about the takeover faded away. Only now are various media outlets and commentators beginning to say the same things. Unfortunately, most will go unread and unheard because football has such a low profile here.

These are indeed sad days. "Beware Arabs bearing gifts" (to paraphrase an old adage).

[haz]

What I dont understand is people say we dont have an identity, then how do Victory have an identity? We play out of the same stadium!

[Jovan]

3 hours ago, haz said:

What I dont understand is people say we dont have an identity, then how do Victory have an identity? We play out of the same stadium!

We have a strong and distinctive identity. 

We are a club founded on fear. Fear of success, fear of failure, fear of not having an identity. 

[HEARTinator]

36 minutes ago, Bellos23 said:

Brings back great memories!

I'm tearing up

[Torn Asunder]

https://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/uefa-could-ban-manchester-city-from-2019-20-champions-league

 

Quote

Manchester City could potentially be banned from next season's Champions League due to alleged Financial Fair Play (FFP) breaches, with UEFA president Aleksander Ceferin saying an investigation could be concluded "very soon".

German magazine Der Spiegel made a number of claims against City last month in a series of articles based on documents purportedly attained from whistleblowers Football Leaks.

Der Spiegel's reporting accused Sheikh Mansour's City regime of topping up multi-million pound sponsorship deals with Abu Dhabi companies, using their owner's fortune, in order to meet UEFA's FFP stipulations.

Further allegations claimed City were cut a favourable FFP settlement when they were punished for overspending by UEFA in 2014.

The Premier League champions dismissed the stories and said "the attempt to damage the club's reputation is organised and clear".

UEFA said soon after that they could re-open investigations should more information become available to them, and Ceferin this week referred to City's case as "concrete", with findings expected in the near future after media reports suggested a Champions League ban is a possibility.

"We are assessing the situation," Ceferin told reporters in Dublin. "We have an independent body working on it. Very soon you will have an answer on what will happen in this concrete case."

FIFA president Gianni Infantino was UEFA general secretary at the time of City's 2014 FFP settlement and defended the agreements reached with them and Ligue 1 giants Paris Saint-Germain.

"Our goal at UEFA was always to keep the clubs with us, not to kick them out, so you negotiate and seek solutions. That was my job as general secretary," he told Swiss publication Blick last month.

"The fact is, in the history of FFP, 30 violations have been detected. With all but one club there were agreements - agreements and negotiations are expressly allowed."

 

[haz]

5 hours ago, Torn Asunder said:

https://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/uefa-could-ban-manchester-city-from-2019-20-champions-league

 

 

Wont affect us in anyway

[HEARTinator]

At 13.13 a discussion is started about the woes of our club in the way Bruno's situation is being handled and how poorly the club has communicated. Then at 19.09 a discussion is started about the wonderful state of the tards and lavishing praise on Honda. Wow, just fcuken sums up the state-of-the-nation at La Trobe

 

[jw1739]

Our club pumps out more than its fair share of "communications." Daily on the web-site and social media.

The problem is that they are all one way and all carefully manicured to fit "the brand." When I see them I feel that I'm living in Orwell's 1984.

There is no humanity in those communications, and no dialogue with its supporters.

[belaguttman]

2 hours ago, jw1739 said:

Our club pumps out more than its fair share of "communications." Daily on the web-site and social media.

The problem is that they are all one way and all carefully manicured to fit "the brand." When I see them I feel that I'm living in Orwell's 1984.

There is no humanity in those communications, and no dialogue with its supporters.

Yes, they all read like corporate press releases.

[haz]

Good thread about us on the Manchester City forum. Fair amount of discussion with over 260 pages

https://forums.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk/threads/melbourne-city-fc-thread.296381/page-269