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The Paddy Kisnorbo thread


TheStig
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We have seen Melbourne City play very differently under Rado ... more responsibility to the players, subs, player rotation, changed tactics and formations. much more attractive attacking football.  To me the games have been highly entertaining, and even our losses and draws could have (should have) been wins.

PK was one dimensional and we did well because of the players he had, and the resources at his disposal, despite his lack of tactical nous.  He was a fackn horror show to watch at times during match day with his sideline antics, and his tactics and lack of subs killed me.

Go back and watch his pressers, compared to Rados ... that tells you everything you need to know

I've said it before, I think PK would make a great coach (not manager) ... he'd probably be a decent asset to the Socceroo setup

In terms of his French experience, I hate to say it, but it was always doomed 

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  • 3 weeks later...
14 hours ago, Jeremy Martins said:

One more for PK… this guy is a scam… I understand why so many of you don’t even want to hear his name…

It's not as simple as him being a scam. Our team has lost significant strengths since his departure. He's a young coach, he was very good at mobilising and unifying the playing list around his style of play; we were a tough and resilient team when he was our coach. Like all coaches, he had his weaknesses, he wasn't very tactically flexible. I don't know how well his advantages will translate, taking over a team mid-season, in a different culture and language.

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  • 2 weeks later...
52 minutes ago, Jeremy Martins said:

Hi Melbourne City fans! If you have not seen it yet, Troyes has lost at home again this Sunday. It was for us, the very last chance to keep fighting for Ligue 1. After a soaked oatmeal of football served, we can now officially say that we won’t be playing Ligue 1 anymore next season! Sad sad to say the least! 

Sorry to hear that. The rebuild will be slow.

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5 hours ago, Jeremy Martins said:

Hi Melbourne City fans! If you have not seen it yet, Troyes has lost at home again this Sunday. It was for us, the very last chance to keep fighting for Ligue 1. After a soaked oatmeal of football served, we can now officially say that we won’t be playing Ligue 1 anymore next season! Sad sad to say the least! 

PK won all his trophies here with an inherent squad so it’s definitely not him.

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21 hours ago, Jeremy Martins said:

Hi Melbourne City fans! If you have not seen it yet, Troyes has lost at home again this Sunday. It was for us, the very last chance to keep fighting for Ligue 1. After a soaked oatmeal of football served, we can now officially say that we won’t be playing Ligue 1 anymore next season! Sad sad to say the least! 

You have signed a blinder in Aiden O'Neil, watching some of your games he would be a star player, hopefully you will be back up.

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2 minutes ago, moops said:

You have signed a blinder in Aiden O'Neil, watching some of your games he would be a star player, hopefully you will be back up.

I read that O'Neill's transfer to Troyes is conditional on them remaining in Ligue 1, and that City have an offer on the table to him to stay with us.

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On 16/03/2023 at 5:02 PM, Mr MO said:

It’s very Australian to defend PK as we did here, results help of course.

I think he's earned it. He'd secured 16 of a possible 18 points while he was still here this season, odds on at the time to win a third premiership plate for the first time in the history of the league.

It seemed a surprising move at the time: not that he was leaving, but that he was going to France and Ligue 1, it felt like he was skipping a step or two in his career progression. Melbourne City isn't Ligue 1 and it appears Kisnorbo isn't either. I think he's made his bed and I wouldn't want to see him back soon, I think a move to the UK (where he has numerous ties) would be the logical step from here.

But hell, a bit of respect for a club legend wouldn't go astray. We've had talented squads for many years now, he's the one who's been able to start filling up the trophy cabinet. We've gone from perennial semi final fodder to a powerhouse since Kisnorbo took over.

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1 hour ago, SF33 said:

I think he's earned it. He'd secured 16 of a possible 18 points while he was still here this season, odds on at the time to win a third premiership plate for the first time in the history of the league.

It seemed a surprising move at the time: not that he was leaving, but that he was going to France and Ligue 1, it felt like he was skipping a step or two in his career progression. Melbourne City isn't Ligue 1 and it appears Kisnorbo isn't either. I think he's made his bed and I wouldn't want to see him back soon, I think a move to the UK (where he has numerous ties) would be the logical step from here.

But hell, a bit of respect for a club legend wouldn't go astray. We've had talented squads for many years now, he's the one who's been able to start filling up the trophy cabinet. We've gone from perennial semi final fodder to a powerhouse since Kisnorbo took over.

I fully agree with your second paragraph. Perhaps a little less with the other two.

Of course he has earned it as he worked for it! But does make him a good coach, less so in my opinion.

I just looking deeper into how this success actually came about. Winning and dominating the league was always bound to come with any coach, City clearly had set out a multi year plan, never rushed, all this was done before PK. He clearly peaked on the foundations of another coach, had a good squad in a weaker year of the A-league, minimal changes were required. The following seasons that’s when the real deficiencies started to appear as he had coach and select teams himself. We were still winning as he good squad and resources.

Now am I fair, perhaps not as he’s a young coach and can still develop but in my opinion there are just certain coaching and personality traits which great football tacticians never had. 

Europe is ruthless.

By the way he’s a legend in my mind but mostly as a player! So it’s not personal.

 

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Id sum Paddy up as follows;

Pros

- Excellent, fluent Plan A that is both attractive to watch and is generally effective

- Extracts the most out of most of his players and doesnt allow complacency to set in

- Generally speaking inspires his players 

- Best suited to a side that has a superior squad to most rivals

 

Cons

- Tactically inflexible, his idea of Plan A is do Plan B better which in some respects makes him easy to coach against, albeit execution is harder than the theory

- Aggressive approach is inspiring to some, but others will thoroughly dislike it.

- IMO his gameplan is useless when he's using subpar cattle, which would appear to be the case at Troyes.

 

Personally i think he can thrive overseas, but he needs the right conditions and tbh, a mid to lower table battler won't suit his style.

 

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24 minutes ago, Jovan said:

Disagree with this. You can't selectively look at his results and and add caveats to support your opinion.

but saying winning with a superior squad makes you automatically a good coach isn’t fully true either.

 

4 minutes ago, bt50 said:

Id sum Paddy up as follows;

Pros

- Excellent, fluent Plan A that is both attractive to watch and is generally effective

- Extracts the most out of most of his players and doesnt allow complacency to set in

- Generally speaking inspires his players 

- Best suited to a side that has a superior squad to most rivals

 

Cons

- Tactically inflexible, his idea of Plan A is do Plan B better which in some respects makes him easy to coach against, albeit execution is harder than the theory

- Aggressive approach is inspiring to some, but others will thoroughly dislike it.

- IMO his gameplan is useless when he's using subpar cattle, which would appear to be the case at Troyes.

 

Personally i think he can thrive overseas, but he needs the right conditions and tbh, a mid to lower table battler won't suit his style.

 

Excellent summary.

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4 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

I'm lost as per usual. What defines a "good coach?" Is a "good coach" the same as a "successful coach?"

If you put Guardiola in charge at Concord Rangers could he get them off the bottom of the National League South?

Its a good point. Some people are brilliant at driving Ferrari's but wouldnt know what to do with a Datsun, and vice-versa

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All good points, knowing CFG they'll be playing the longer game with Troyes and PK and I wouldn't be surprised if they're not that concerned about dropping out of Ligue 1 and giving PK more time with a squad he wants to put together and to see how he goes as a bigger fish in Ligue 2 before making any changes

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The task for any coach is to build the squad, extract the most of the squad, have a good game plan, have a resilient team so that Plan B is rarely required, pick the right team every week and make the most of the substitutes. PK is now being tested on all of these points.

Locally, Popovic did well with the inaugural WSW squad but it has been all downhill since then. I suspect that PK could easily be going the same way.

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1 hour ago, NewConvert said:

The task for any coach is to build the squad, extract the most of the squad, have a good game plan, have a resilient team so that Plan B is rarely required, pick the right team every week and make the most of the substitutes. PK is now being tested on all of these points.

Locally, Popovic did well with the inaugural WSW squad but it has been all downhill since then. I suspect that PK could easily be going the same way.

He led Perth to the 2018-19 Premiership too.

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On 13/04/2023 at 3:35 PM, jw1739 said:

I'm lost as per usual. What defines a "good coach?" Is a "good coach" the same as a "successful coach?"

If you put Guardiola in charge at Concord Rangers could he get them off the bottom of the National League South?

Imo a good coach is a coach that regardless of circumstances (small club, player injuries,  club turmoil ext) can still be successful. I think of Graham Arnold in a sense,  started at ccm and with very little to no resources, was able to bring great success to the club.

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13 hours ago, kingofhearts said:

Imo a good coach is a coach that regardless of circumstances (small club, player injuries,  club turmoil ext) can still be successful. I think of Graham Arnold in a sense,  started at ccm and with very little to no resources, was able to bring great success to the club.

A good coach means a club achieves things it would not have done otherwise, that it punches above its weight. If I use an example from my home town club in the UK, I'd cite Dean Smith. A former player at Walsall, he came back to manage the club and had it right in the mix for automatic promotion from League 1 to the Championship before he left for bigger things at Brentford, Aston Villa, Norwich and now Leicester. After he left, Walsall slipped down League 1, and last season were at serious risk of relegation from League 2. Also worth noting that whilst he was manager, Walsall equalled its record run of consecutive losses (thirteen as I recall) before he was able to build success. So sometimes a good manager needs patience whilst they build the platform for success. 

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So Troyes drew with Nantes last night 2-2.

This now means Troyes are 10 points behind safety. With only 6 games remaining and a fairly tough run home you'd almost certainly say that they will be relegated..  What's everyone's thoughts on PK getting the boot or being kept on to see what sought of rebuild he can do in the transfer window and results he could achieve in Ligue 2?

Also. I remember seeing somewhere that part of O'Neil going across to play with Troyes was that they stayed in Ligue 1 and didn't get relegated.. if that is the case you wonder what that might mean for O'Neil..

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9 minutes ago, heart1011 said:

So Troyes drew with Nantes last night 2-2.

This now means Troyes are 10 points behind safety. With only 6 games remaining and a fairly tough run home you'd almost certainly say that they will be relegated..  What's everyone's thoughts on PK getting the boot or being kept on to see what sought of rebuild he can do in the transfer window and results he could achieve in Ligue 2?

Also. I remember seeing somewhere that part of O'Neil going across to play with Troyes was that they stayed in Ligue 1 and didn't get relegated.. if that is the case you wonder what that might mean for O'Neil..

AFIK it has only been speculation that O'Neill was being pursued by Troyes and even further speculation that he would move if they remain in Ligue 1. This means that for O'Neill is that his contract finishes at season's end and therefore either Melbourne City offer him a new contract which he accepts or his management may be looking at other opportunities.

I don't know anything about Ligue 2 but over in Germany the Bundesliga second division is a much higher standard than the A-League. Let's not forget that Leckie could not get much game time there, and of course Irvine and Metcalf are both with St Pauli.

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35 minutes ago, heart1011 said:

So Troyes drew with Nantes last night 2-2.

This now means Troyes are 10 points behind safety. With only 6 games remaining and a fairly tough run home you'd almost certainly say that they will be relegated..  What's everyone's thoughts on PK getting the boot or being kept on to see what sought of rebuild he can do in the transfer window and results he could achieve in Ligue 2?

Also. I remember seeing somewhere that part of O'Neil going across to play with Troyes was that they stayed in Ligue 1 and didn't get relegated.. if that is the case you wonder what that might mean for O'Neil..

They have certainly had woeful results since PK took charge.  Apparently doesn't even have a translator on the training pitch or side-lines with him... As for Troyes wanting to keep him in charge in League 2 would depend on the expectations they had set out for this season after he took over coaching. Sounds like the fans are pissed (rightfully so) and it kind of looks like the players have checked out (looking purely on results) so there doesn't seem like much hope for Paddy going into League 2 with Troyes!

O'Neil regardless of the Troyes situation is surely going to end up playing overseas somewhere in Europe next season. He's been too good this season and really does deserves a shot overseas. I'm fully expecting him and Bos not to be here next season, Tilio not so certain he'll be going overseas. 

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0-1 defeat at home to Nice. Interesting to see that Aaron Ramsey, Welsh international and formerly with Arsenal, is playing for Nice.

Theoretically Troyes can still escape relegation but their chances seem remote based on form!

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2 hours ago, belaguttman said:

I was watching a video of Troyes latest defeat, there's a brief shot of Paddy; he looks like he's added 'several kilos', the food is obviously good in Troyes!

He's probably stress eating and smashing those beef bourguignon and creme brulee...

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46 minutes ago, MHFC-FAN said:

He's probably stress eating and smashing those beef bourguignon and creme brulee...

You must admit that preceded by the French onion soup, a couple of bread rolls with butter, and accompanied by a decent bottle of beaujolais, that's pretty easy on the palate and hard to resist...

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Hell yeah the food is great in Troyes! It takes me a couple of days only to get 5 kilos easy when I’m back home! Darn the  food is good! 
 

PK wise, yep! The honey moon is long gone and now his speeches before/after games are totally inaudible! No one understand how it is possible for him to still be here! I had the chance to speak with an ESTAC legend recently who shared with me how unbelievably ugly the team became. He does not recognise how the club could lose its football in the space of a few months since PK arrived! 

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