jw1739 Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 I'm in favour of increasing the cap - indeed, ultimately removing it altogether at some future time - but just increasing the cap is not necessarily going to improve the quality of the players in A-League teams. The risk is that the existing Australian players through Professional Footballers Australia simply demand and ultimately command higher salaries. What we have to do is find the best way to bring better players into the Australian game. The idea of an Australian players cap and a foreign players cap is worth toying with. It's not necessary to maintain the "one marquee of each type" rule if the two caps are set higher. IMO other changes need to be made as well. A-League clubs are simply stealing players from each other, and IMO transfer fees should be allowed for intra-league transfers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drewmelbcity Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 Thought it might be fun to speculate as to what certain players are paid. I've had a go, remember that the cap is $2.55m AFAIK (excluding Koren and Kennedy), I've come up 40k short (if I've added up correctly), which is about what I think we have left. Andrew Redmayne - $75k Rob Wielaert - $120k Connor Chapman - $70k Erik Paartalu - $190k Aaron Mooy - $190k Iain Ramsay - $80k Massimo Murdocca - $130k Robert Koren - $1m Damien Duff - $500k Jonatan Germano - $65k James Brown - $65k David Williams - $170k Joshua Kennedy - $500k Jason Hoffman - $80k Paulo Retre - $50k Ben Garuccio - $50k Tando Velaphi - $60k Stefan Mauk - $50k Mate Dugandzic - $120k Patrick Kisnorbo - $220k Jacob Melling - $60k Marc Marino - $50k Ross Archibald - $50k Jack Clisby - $65k "The Full-Time Adult Average Weekly Total Earnings in May 2014 were $1,516.90." http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/mf/6302.0 That means in May 2014 the average wage was $78,879 a year. So the majority of our squad earn below the average wage in one of the world's highest paying team sports. What a poor joke this pathetic salary cap is. Hmmm...are you suggesting that we need to increase the salary cap to pay the incumbents more money, or increase the salary cap to get better players? Because, as far as I'm aware most A-League clubs are still running at a loss and I doubt that raising the cost of admission and memberships to pay this extra money for the same players would go down too well. Beyond that: what's the average age of the players that are (estimated to be) earning less than 80k a year? Redmayne, Chapman, Ramsay, Germano, Brown, Retre, Garuccio, Velaphi, Mauk, Melling, Marino, Archibald, Clisby. Median age: 21. Eight of the thirteen are university-age (22 or under). 50-65k is probably pretty decent coin for a guy in his late-teens/early-20s, especially when he's getting paid to play football, rather than working a cash register, digging trenches, or stacking pallets in a factory. I'm quite confident that if you put our players against the general population by their age bracket, most would come out looking ok. How about having two caps, one for foreign players and one for local players. Increasing the cap for foreign players will allow clubs to be more inviting to players that are currently playing in Asian leagues. This way we will not just be employing journey men who are 34, 35 and so on. These type of players I believe bring the league down, you don't see Juric and Burns improving because they can dribble around Weilart. I would not have an increased local cap as yet because in all honesty local talent is not always the greatest or worthy of being paid the big bucks. In most cases our better players usually venture out to Europe to play. The Aussie Marquee and International Marquee status to stay as it is. Because too many teams are losing money as it is and unless said foreign players would be the difference between a profit and a loss for the season (i.e. these 'better' foreigners make back the additional money that they cost, and then some, through fan interest, to put the team into the black). Also, if it came down to that, I think teams would be too worried about making money first and sign more Heskey and Fowler types to generate some initial interest, then they'd cross their fingers and hope that those players actually helped on the park. What are Newcastle's scouting resources like? My guess is probably not up to scratch with the richer clubs. So they'd probably be in a worse position to unearth some of these hidden gems (and convincing those players to come to Newcastle) than the stronger clubs. I know what you are saying about clubs needing to make money back rather than be in the black. However as I see it increasing the salary cap in general will see us spend more money on local spuds. At least by trying to improve the quality of imports it may as some put it in this forum entice more euro snobs to take interest of the a league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewConvert Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 It really is a balancing act. More people will watch the games if the quality on the pitch improves but that requires better players which requires more money and the argument becomes circular. From my time watching the A-League, that is since Heart joined the league, I feel that the coaching is the key ingredient. Arnold at CCM, Ange at the Roar and now Merrick at Wellington. Worked with minimum resources and budgets to produce good football teams. Sydney FC OTOH have always been well financed yet have been hot and cold all the time. And as far as visa players are concerned they have been hit and miss. Personally I feel that the FFA should increase the salary cap at just above inflation and concentrate in developing the state level infrastructure and player development. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjake1234 Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 I would hope that by the end of this season the cap and the number of marquees allowed will be increased. The game is on a roll and we have to capitalise by putting on good football and getting more media attention. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 I would hope that by the end of this season the cap and the number of marquees allowed will be increased. The game is on a roll and we have to capitalise by putting on good football and getting more media attention. . No chance. They want to reduce the visa spots so there is no way theu will allow another marquee. Cap will probably increase by about 500k if it changes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiro Kompiro Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 I would hope that by the end of this season the cap and the number of marquees allowed will be increased. The game is on a roll and we have to capitalise by putting on good football and getting more media attention. . No chance. They want to reduce the visa spots so there is no way theu will allow another marquee. Cap will probably increase by about 500k if it changes yeah more money for shit kicker locals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red or Dead Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 The way I see it, each club gets $2.5m from the FFA every season to cover the salary cap so apart from the two marquee spots (& junior marquee) the clubs are not out of pocket for any player under the salary cap. This is why I think the minimum salary cap should be the full $2.5m. Now the maximum (or new) salary cap is up for debate; do you double it to $5m? Probably not because then the richer clubs , i.e us & SFC will just spend it all and dominate every year whereas the smaller clubs like Central Coast, Victory and Newcastle will finish last every season. How does $3.5m sound? It's an extra $1m from what it is now so it will allow the clubs to spend a little more on the Visa players, which means they'll be younger and/or more skilful so the A-League's quality will improve dramatically. More importantly it will allow the clubs to keep their young guns/rising stars from getting poached by Asian or lower tier European Clubs. It also means the more talented young Aussie players won't want to move abroad prematurely chasing bigger dollars which usually ends up with them sitting on the bench and halts their development. Anyway, that's my 3cents; Salary Cap Minimum: $2.55m (covered fully by FFA). Salary Cap Maximum: $1m more than the minimum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 I would hope that by the end of this season the cap and the number of marquees allowed will be increased. The game is on a roll and we have to capitalise by putting on good football and getting more media attention. . No chance. They want to reduce the visa spots so there is no way theu will allow another marquee. Cap will probably increase by about 500k if it changes yeah more money for shit kicker locals. or a 500k visa player that you could build a team around? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewConvert Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 There is an underlying belief that if we bring in more quality visa players then more people will come. I am not so sure that that would be the case. For starters the general public would only be aware of the mega-stars such as ADP, Villa or Messi. Players like Koren are known only to those that follow closely foreign leagues, and IIRC a lot of people in this forum (including me) had no idea as to his CV. Secondly there is no emotional attachment when the club is not developing youth players - this can be seen by the way members of this forum follow closely the ups and downs of players like Babalj, Behich, Marrone, etc. So I don't think that if the A-League increases the number of visa spots that the clubs will grow accordingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jovan Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 There just inst the general pool of quality players in all positions to supply with Australian players. How hard has been filling our weaknesses? Extend that look at the socceroos are there 2 or 3 players in every position genuinely challenging for spots. For the league to improve continually we need to bring better quality players continually and sadly for now we can't produce enough to fill the demand. I think in the interim next 5 years increase visa spots quota and then if there is genuine young Australians struggling to get contracts reduce the visa spots. Until then were just filling squads with players that frankly are not up to the level required. Just my humble opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF33 Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 There is an underlying belief that if we bring in more quality visa players then more people will come. I am not so sure that that would be the case. For starters the general public would only be aware of the mega-stars such as ADP, Villa or Messi. Players like Koren are known only to those that follow closely foreign leagues, and IIRC a lot of people in this forum (including me) had no idea as to his CV. Secondly there is no emotional attachment when the club is not developing youth players - this can be seen by the way members of this forum follow closely the ups and downs of players like Babalj, Behich, Marrone, etc. So I don't think that if the A-League increases the number of visa spots that the clubs will grow accordingly. I agree. People do want to see a quality local product, but is the issue that the quality isn't good enough to drag in the more casual observers, or is it more that it's just an issue with teams that are consistently down the bottom and routinely go months without a win? If it's the latter, raising the standard won't help, because it's a zero sum game. If your team is having success, it means some other poor bastards aren't. And I think the other thing to consider is that signing a lesser-known player, like Koren, doesn't necessarily guarantee that you'll get a star in this comp, just like signing a fairly recognisable name, like Heskey, doesn't necessarily guarantee that you'll get a washed-up hack. I can't imagine any team has gone in to a deal for a 'name' player with any concerns that player would struggle at this level. So the club will sign the well-known player, thinking that he will dominate and put bums on seats from day one. Those concepts don't have to be mutually exclusive, though obviously most of us don't give a fig if we've heard of the foreign players we bring in, as long as they can play at a high level and they work hard during the week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 There is an underlying belief that if we bring in more quality visa players then more people will come. I am not so sure that that would be the case. For starters the general public would only be aware of the mega-stars such as ADP, Villa or Messi. Players like Koren are known only to those that follow closely foreign leagues, and IIRC a lot of people in this forum (including me) had no idea as to his CV. Secondly there is no emotional attachment when the club is not developing youth players - this can be seen by the way members of this forum follow closely the ups and downs of players like Babalj, Behich, Marrone, etc. So I don't think that if the A-League increases the number of visa spots that the clubs will grow accordingly. Good points. IMO the key one you raise is the old chestnut of "awareness." I'd suggest that football people grossly over-estimate the awareness of the general public of particular "names", and therefore I'd support your premise that simply importing a "name" is of itself not going to draw more people towards the game. Like you, I'd never heard of Koren (sorry, Robi, but that's the truth of it). But what this means to me is that the secret is not the "name" itself, but the marketing that should go with it. I think back and I'd say that since the start of the season the City player I've heard quoted most is Patrick Kisnorbo (fair enough, he's our captain), but after that it's probably Mr. Goody-two-shoes himself, Jason Hoffman. Certainly not our marquee player Robi Koren. IMO, if we want to maximise the value of our marquee players, the league and the clubs need to use those marquee players to promote the game. I don't want to go back over the David Villa affair all over again, but that was a classic example of how not to market yourself to best advantage. And now we're doing it (or should that be not doing it?) all over again with Josh Kennedy. Josh who? We know who he is, but Joe Public out there I'd say doesn't know him from a bar of soap. And the marketing I'm talking about is not just the slick 2-minute sky-blue video on the club website. It's about the Korens, Villas and Kennedys out there at the children's clinics, school visits, hospital visits, corporate events - basically getting out there and breaking new ground, not going over the old ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bt50 Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 There is an underlying belief that if we bring in more quality visa players then more people will come. I am not so sure that that would be the case. For starters the general public would only be aware of the mega-stars such as ADP, Villa or Messi. Players like Koren are known only to those that follow closely foreign leagues, and IIRC a lot of people in this forum (including me) had no idea as to his CV. Secondly there is no emotional attachment when the club is not developing youth players - this can be seen by the way members of this forum follow closely the ups and downs of players like Babalj, Behich, Marrone, etc. So I don't think that if the A-League increases the number of visa spots that the clubs will grow accordingly. Good points. IMO the key one you raise is the old chestnut of "awareness." I'd suggest that football people grossly over-estimate the awareness of the general public of particular "names", and therefore I'd support your premise that simply importing a "name" is of itself not going to draw more people towards the game. Like you, I'd never heard of Koren (sorry, Robi, but that's the truth of it). But what this means to me is that the secret is not the "name" itself, but the marketing that should go with it. I think back and I'd say that since the start of the season the City player I've heard quoted most is Patrick Kisnorbo (fair enough, he's our captain), but after that it's probably Mr. Goody-two-shoes himself, Jason Hoffman. Certainly not our marquee player Robi Koren. IMO, if we want to maximise the value of our marquee players, the league and the clubs need to use those marquee players to promote the game. I don't want to go back over the David Villa affair all over again, but that was a classic example of how not to market yourself to best advantage. And now we're doing it (or should that be not doing it?) all over again with Josh Kennedy. Josh who? We know who he is, but Joe Public out there I'd say doesn't know him from a bar of soap. And the marketing I'm talking about is not just the slick 2-minute sky-blue video on the club website. It's about the Korens, Villas and Kennedys out there at the children's clinics, school visits, hospital visits, corporate events - basically getting out there and breaking new ground, not going over the old ground. Disagree strongly with this. Still the most recognisable Socceroo outside of Tim Cahill and Mark Bresciano to the unwitting public Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF33 Posted January 22, 2015 Report Share Posted January 22, 2015 There is an underlying belief that if we bring in more quality visa players then more people will come. I am not so sure that that would be the case. For starters the general public would only be aware of the mega-stars such as ADP, Villa or Messi. Players like Koren are known only to those that follow closely foreign leagues, and IIRC a lot of people in this forum (including me) had no idea as to his CV. Secondly there is no emotional attachment when the club is not developing youth players - this can be seen by the way members of this forum follow closely the ups and downs of players like Babalj, Behich, Marrone, etc. So I don't think that if the A-League increases the number of visa spots that the clubs will grow accordingly. Good points. IMO the key one you raise is the old chestnut of "awareness." I'd suggest that football people grossly over-estimate the awareness of the general public of particular "names", and therefore I'd support your premise that simply importing a "name" is of itself not going to draw more people towards the game. Like you, I'd never heard of Koren (sorry, Robi, but that's the truth of it). But what this means to me is that the secret is not the "name" itself, but the marketing that should go with it. I think back and I'd say that since the start of the season the City player I've heard quoted most is Patrick Kisnorbo (fair enough, he's our captain), but after that it's probably Mr. Goody-two-shoes himself, Jason Hoffman. Certainly not our marquee player Robi Koren. IMO, if we want to maximise the value of our marquee players, the league and the clubs need to use those marquee players to promote the game. I don't want to go back over the David Villa affair all over again, but that was a classic example of how not to market yourself to best advantage. And now we're doing it (or should that be not doing it?) all over again with Josh Kennedy. Josh who? We know who he is, but Joe Public out there I'd say doesn't know him from a bar of soap. And the marketing I'm talking about is not just the slick 2-minute sky-blue video on the club website. It's about the Korens, Villas and Kennedys out there at the children's clinics, school visits, hospital visits, corporate events - basically getting out there and breaking new ground, not going over the old ground. Disagree strongly with this. Still the most recognisable Socceroo outside of Tim Cahill and Mark Bresciano to the unwitting public Correct, but it depends on what your definition of 'Joe Public' is. I'd say it's probably reasonable to suggest that 'Joe Public' hasn't heard of a single national team player, besides Cahill. That being said, Kennedy does have a few things going for him, with his height and the whole 'Jesus' thing. I think the issue there so far is the other part of what jw1739 mentioned: Kennedy has barely been seen or heard from since he arrived. Of course, if he plays great football when he gets out there, that's a minor quibble, but still, it would be nice for our genuine stars to do a bit more. We've heard a bit from Duff, but, since he's such a straight shooter and he always seems to make plenty of sense to me, I wish we got more from him, as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torn Asunder Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 I think they should add another component outside of the salary cap for loan players, and then cap that component separately at say $500k per season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted January 23, 2015 Report Share Posted January 23, 2015 I think they should add another component outside of the salary cap for loan players, and then cap that component separately at say $500k per season. Now that is a very good idea indeed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjake1234 Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 JW you call it "awareness" I say "marketing". This just seems to be another thing that is not being done well by Melbourne City. I do subscribe to the belief that "names" will help but even this will not be enough while we have such a poor ability to put ourselves out there. I see much more promo for basketball. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted January 24, 2015 Report Share Posted January 24, 2015 JW you call it "awareness" I say "marketing". This just seems to be another thing that is not being done well by Melbourne City. I do subscribe to the belief that "names" will help but even this will not be enough while we have such a poor ability to put ourselves out there. I see much more promo for basketball. Couldn't agree more. We're too busy trying to promote Ballarat it seems. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted January 25, 2015 Report Share Posted January 25, 2015 We should not have any salary cap restrictions on overseas based Australians being loaned to an A League club instead of another club overseas. Why should an overseas club benefit from having a loaned Australian player instead of an Australian club and the A League should the player want to be loaned back to an A League club just because the player has gone overseas to a non salary capped football league? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jovan Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 We should not have any salary cap restrictions on overseas based Australians being loaned to an A League club instead of another club overseas. Why should an overseas club benefit from having a loaned Australian player instead of an Australian club and the A League should the player want to be loaned back to an A League club just because the player has gone overseas to a non salary capped football league? So what your saying Parrot is that the A league shouldn't have a salary cap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 (edited) We should not have any salary cap restrictions on overseas based Australians being loaned to an A League club instead of another club overseas. Why should an overseas club benefit from having a loaned Australian player instead of an Australian club and the A League should the player want to be loaned back to an A League club just because the player has gone overseas to a non salary capped football league? So what your saying Parrot is that the A league shouldn't have a salary cap. Has FFA imposed a paltry low salary cap on all the FFA administrators involved in running the A League? Bet you the administrators are paid more than the players, yet it's the players who put on the show. Edited January 26, 2015 by Parrot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 Is this like the "guess the jelly beans" competitions where you get to keep the whole amount if your guess is the closest? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jovan Posted January 26, 2015 Report Share Posted January 26, 2015 We should not have any salary cap restrictions on overseas based Australians being loaned to an A League club instead of another club overseas. Why should an overseas club benefit from having a loaned Australian player instead of an Australian club and the A League should the player want to be loaned back to an A League club just because the player has gone overseas to a non salary capped football league? So what your saying Parrot is that the A league shouldn't have a salary cap. Has FFA imposed a paltry low salary cap on all the FFA administrators involved in running the A League? Bet you the administrators are paid more than the players, yet it's the players who put on the show. Just making sure I know were you stand on this issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlings Posted January 27, 2015 Report Share Posted January 27, 2015 JW you call it "awareness" I say "marketing". This just seems to be another thing that is not being done well by Melbourne City. I do subscribe to the belief that "names" will help but even this will not be enough while we have such a poor ability to put ourselves out there. I see much more promo for basketball. Couldn't agree more. We're too busy trying to promote Ballarat it seems. It's only a matter of time until the relocation to Ballarat is complete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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