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City v Perth @ AAMI, Sunday 31st January, 6.40 pm


Harrison
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It’s obvious that we’re very, very vulnerable to set pieces with that XI. Reis will be a big help, even Griffiths in there would’ve solidified our defence and given us a lot more aerial strength and experience.

The midfield isn’t quite there, mainly due to Gomulka. Berenguer needs to start but who else can play as the defensive midfielder? With both big blokes available it probably will be Griffiths, which toughens up the spine a lot. Gomulka’s positioning is iffy (no surprise given his age) and that role has a lot to do with controlling space. 

Maclaren has to improve his shooting otherwise we’re toothless. Don’t know what’s happening with his shooting at the moment.

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35 minutes ago, Harrison said:

It’s obvious that we’re very, very vulnerable to set pieces with that XI. Reis will be a big help, even Griffiths in there would’ve solidified our defence and given us a lot more aerial strength and experience.

The midfield isn’t quite there, mainly due to Gomulka. Berenguer needs to start but who else can play as the defensive midfielder? With both big blokes available it probably will be Griffiths, which toughens up the spine a lot. Gomulka’s positioning is iffy (no surprise given his age) and that role has a lot to do with controlling space. 

Maclaren has to improve his shooting otherwise we’re toothless. Don’t know what’s happening with his shooting at the moment.

Agree with all points especially Reis with set pieces. Even with Griffiths there we conceded 2 goals from set pieces in 3 games, more of a structure thing

Also doesn’t help that our passing is so slow needs to be more high tempo. Need to play through lines more than just resorting to crosses into the boxes when our team is so small especially our midfield and front 3 no height there so don’t know why keep resorting to that tactic 

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I don't feel any better after that than I did last night. If anything I feel worse. That was a miserable experience. We have no shape, no ideas, no creativity. It's turgid to watch. We look just as bad as in the worst days of Joyce, and just as bad as we've threatened in our previous games. 

I'm not glad to be back at AAMI. It's a miserable experience. Covid marshalls and stewards everywhere constantly on your case and treating us like gormless children. Active scattered and neutered so that there's no atmosphere, shit food. Joyless, soulless, and the perfect accompaniment to the shite being dished up on the pitch. 

We're in for a long season of being utterly crap in a lifeless stadium. Which brings me to the biggest realisation of having slept on this. What was the point of the City takeover? We're no better, we've lost the soul and the atmosphere that I remember so vividly from the Heart days. We tried, we were together and it was fun, a laugh, noisy. What we're left with is a husk of a club, and last night I realised that the parasite which has infested us has finally eaten our heart. 

I'm glad we've got no home games for a month, because I'm over it. I don't want to have to come to games anymore. I live near Geelong. Right now WU looks a more enticing prospect, a club with roots in my locality, what looks like a future, and which plays football that is worth watching. 

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8 hours ago, Harrison said:

It’s obvious that we’re very, very vulnerable to set pieces with that XI. Reis will be a big help, even Griffiths in there would’ve solidified our defence and given us a lot more aerial strength and experience.

The midfield isn’t quite there, mainly due to Gomulka. Berenguer needs to start but who else can play as the defensive midfielder? With both big blokes available it probably will be Griffiths, which toughens up the spine a lot. Gomulka’s positioning is iffy (no surprise given his age) and that role has a lot to do with controlling space. 

Maclaren has to improve his shooting otherwise we’re toothless. Don’t know what’s happening with his shooting at the moment.

He's got precious little support or service. Tsubaki tries but he's a youngster and gets pushed off the ball. Noone has had one passable game this season, and it wasn't this one. It was notable that we scored when he managed his one contribution to the match. Otherwise he's absent, and not good enough for a player with his pedigree. And yes, last night Macca hadn't got his radar switched on at all. 

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1 hour ago, mus-28 said:

I've said previously we seemed to throw all our eggs in the Nabbout basket, hoping on days like yesterday he'd get the goals instead of Macca. WIth him not there and Macca misfiring we look like we need 30 clear cut opportunities before we can jag a goal. 

Nabbout didn't impress me at Bentleigh, and we've loaned out our only other spearhead player in Najjar. Just as we've loaned out possibly our best young midfield prospect in Najjarine. Well done whoever thought those moves were the right ones.

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Such a flat second half. We never really looked like challenging, and we are a huge liability on set pieces (both defending and attacking). We could've had double the corners and still not registered a shot on target (did we even get one from all the set pieces we had yesterday). 

Dissapointed Colakovski didn't get a run, Perth have played a lot of games recently and tired towards the end and a pacy winger would've been valuable, especially since Tsubaki (who did pretty well) had already come off. 

Didn't like bringing on Atkinson as a right wing when he hasn't played in ages so is a bit rusty and was at the expense of Colakovski. Would've brought them both on and taken Galloway off, who wasn't terrible but doesn't offer us anything near as much as Atkinson offensively. At least that would have given us two fresh attacking options down the right side who can carry the ball. 

Noone continues to be frustrating. He is a very good player with the ball and one of our best creative outlets, but he goes missing for large periods and is often no threat to the opposition. His poor touch leading to the first goal was pretty poor as well. 

The positives for me were our ability to generate chances in the first 30, Tsubaki was genuinely dangerous and played some very good balls, that's the most effective Garuccio has been thus far, Luna continues his good form in midfield, Good was pretty solid as usual and Tilio while not as good as last time I thought still put in a promising performance. 

 

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10 minutes ago, Mr MO said:

Jumping ship?

I think a lot of the original Heart supporters still left would if they had a realistic alternative. Our love of the game is life-long, and we need an outlet to enjoy it. City is not providing that - we have our moments of course - Luna's sublime pass being an example - but we're not getting our fix like we used to with Heart.

Edited by jw1739
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3 hours ago, fensaddler said:

I don't feel any better after that than I did last night. If anything I feel worse. That was a miserable experience. We have no shape, no ideas, no creativity. It's turgid to watch. We look just as bad as in the worst days of Joyce, and just as bad as we've threatened in our previous games. 

I'm not glad to be back at AAMI. It's a miserable experience. Covid marshalls and stewards everywhere constantly on your case and treating us like gormless children. Active scattered and neutered so that there's no atmosphere, shit food. Joyless, soulless, and the perfect accompaniment to the shite being dished up on the pitch. 

We're in for a long season of being utterly crap in a lifeless stadium. Which brings me to the biggest realisation of having slept on this. What was the point of the City takeover? We're no better, we've lost the soul and the atmosphere that I remember so vividly from the Heart days. We tried, we were together and it was fun, a laugh, noisy. What we're left with is a husk of a club, and last night I realised that the parasite which has infested us has finally eaten our heart. 

I'm glad we've got no home games for a month, because I'm over it. I don't want to have to come to games anymore. I live near Geelong. Right now WU looks a more enticing prospect, a club with roots in my locality, what looks like a future, and which plays football that is worth watching. 

Well WU are also splitting “home” games with AAMI and Ballarat.

They looked pretty pedestrian last week themselves, until they brought on the pace off the bench at least.

You’re right about Man City though, we’re all here despite it, not because of it.

Obviously it’s your choice but somethings (like Vic Gov and AAMI park Covid policies) are outside of our clubs control. Though on the food front my hamburger was heaps nicer than the crap ones they used to dish up a few years ago (when I stopped eating them).

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3 minutes ago, GreenSeater said:

Yeah it was a shit game, but fuck me this is an overreaction and a half. Yeah Covid restrictions are a pain, but I’d much rather go to live football with restrictions than not go at all. I also think quite a few people remember the Heart days through very VERY rose tinted glasses. I remember sitting through the longest winless streak in A-League history and never once did I say “This is fun!”  If you really hate the club so much because of how “soulless” it feels, feel free to jump ship to a club that has existed for 2 years, has no home ground, employs a predator as a coach and Berisha as a forward, I’m sure that will be nice :up:

Yeah the game was shit. Yeah we played like crap. But the sky isn’t fucking falling in so let’s stop being chicken littles alright? /rant

I signed up as a member about 3/4 of the way through the losing streak..... Maybe I enjoy pain and disappointment 🤔

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Just now, belaguttman said:

I fear that you may be right but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt at this stage. We've always had games like that, even under Le Patrone

Agreed, is this really PK?

If this season does fail, the club failed to address obvious deficiencies which had even last season under EM. By reaching the GF last year the club obviously thinks it’s further ahead than we put on the park. looked at the results rather then the actually football played.

My straight forward view; By resigning Florin, keeping Noone, getting Nabbout and with JMac as Marquee they’ve made a statement that these players will carry our team going forward, this is best they could get. Very underwhelming of course, considering we need to play ACL as well.

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2 hours ago, GreenSeater said:

Yeah it was a shit game, but fuck me this is an overreaction and a half. Yeah Covid restrictions are a pain, but I’d much rather go to live football with restrictions than not go at all. I also think quite a few people remember the Heart days through very VERY rose tinted glasses. I remember sitting through the longest winless streak in A-League history and never once did I say “This is fun!”  If you really hate the club so much because of how “soulless” it feels, feel free to jump ship to a club that has existed for 2 years, has no home ground, employs a predator as a coach and Berisha as a forward, I’m sure that will be nice :up:

Yeah the game was shit. Yeah we played like crap. But the sky isn’t fucking falling in so let’s stop being chicken littles alright? /rant

Most times in the past I'd have been with you. A crap performance, but sleep on it, see some positives, look forward to the next game, back the long term strategy. So I'm surprised to find myself instead wondering why I bother, and whether I've had enough. Sometimes it really is just a straw that breaks the camels back. 

And yes, some of its covid, and the heavy handed stewarding at AAMI that's been there for years. And I'm in my fifties and attend with my wife and a bunch of other old blokes so we're hardly hooligan central. And yes, that would be the same regardless of which team I happened to support. But my honest gut feeling today is that I'm glad we haven't got a home game for a month. And like many here, the acceptance of CFG is a Faustian bargain. I'm just not sure its ever going to deliver, and whether it's worth waiting. Right now, I've just had enough. 

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2 hours ago, GreenSeater said:

Yeah it was a shit game, but fuck me this is an overreaction and a half. Yeah Covid restrictions are a pain, but I’d much rather go to live football with restrictions than not go at all. I also think quite a few people remember the Heart days through very VERY rose tinted glasses. I remember sitting through the longest winless streak in A-League history and never once did I say “This is fun!”  If you really hate the club so much because of how “soulless” it feels, feel free to jump ship to a club that has existed for 2 years, has no home ground, employs a predator as a coach and Berisha as a forward, I’m sure that will be nice :up:

Yeah the game was shit. Yeah we played like crap. But the sky isn’t fucking falling in so let’s stop being chicken littles alright? /rant

 

18 minutes ago, fensaddler said:

Most times in the past I'd have been with you. A crap performance, but sleep on it, see some positives, look forward to the next game, back the long term strategy. So I'm surprised to find myself instead wondering why I bother, and whether I've had enough. Sometimes it really is just a straw that breaks the camels back. 

And yes, some of its covid, and the heavy handed stewarding at AAMI that's been there for years. And I'm in my fifties and attend with my wife and a bunch of other old blokes so we're hardly hooligan central. And yes, that would be the same regardless of which team I happened to support. But my honest gut feeling today is that I'm glad we haven't got a home game for a month. And like many here, the acceptance of CFG is a Faustian bargain. I'm just not sure its ever going to deliver, and whether it's worth waiting. Right now, I've just had enough. 

IMO both these reactions are entirely justifiable. Two passionate football enthusiasts, both wanting success for the club that they fell in love with. Conversations like these take place after every football match ever played. There's no right or wrong.

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2 hours ago, Mr MO said:

Agreed, is this really PK?

If this season does fail, the club failed to address obvious deficiencies which had even last season under EM. By reaching the GF last year the club obviously thinks it’s further ahead than we put on the park. looked at the results rather then the actually football played.

My straight forward view; By resigning Florin, keeping Noone, getting Nabbout and with JMac as Marquee they’ve made a statement that these players will carry our team going forward, this is best they could get. Very underwhelming of course, considering we need to play ACL as well.

No, it's not just PK, its recruitment and injuries and Covid that make this a difficult season but we clearly aren't just building on last season's success like the smurfs did with the transition from Arnold to Corica.

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In this league to absolutely succeed you need your visa players to be very good. Our simply arnt. Not including Reis we only have 1 who is a nailed on 100% starting quality player every week in Luna. 

Noone is hot and cold, and his cold games are more noticeable than his hot games. Florin has been here over 2 years and just floats around, fuck me he has had 1 standout game in 2 years. And as for Tsubaki, I don't mind him and I know why we got him for acl commitments, but is he any better than Tilio or Cola? He probably is at the moment but it's not by much. 

We made a massive effort to get the squad together and mostly complete very early, which in hindsight looks like an incorrect call. Other clubs have been able to get visa players in much later than us who look much better than ours - eg Benat at Macarthur, Iker at WU, Shotton at Victory.

And one final thing on our squad, it is so unbalanced and I don't understand how we thought it was a good idea to have 4 wing backs and 5 wingers in our squad with only 1 striker and 1 or 2 senior CB options. It's all over the place 

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1 hour ago, neio said:

We made a massive effort to get the squad together and mostly complete very early, which in hindsight looks like an incorrect call. Other clubs have been able to get visa players in much later than us who look much better than ours - eg Benat at Macarthur, Iker at WU, Shotton at Victory.

This has been the biggest factor in my opinion. 

Clearly, we thought the league was going to plunge into disarray this season and held onto most of what we had for dear life (and still lost more than we gained tbh) - at the expense of bringing any genuine, recognisable talent into the squad. It doesn't help that two of our major signings succumbed to long-term injuries, but I don't think you can argue that Nabbout and O'Neill are on the same level as some of the players other clubs have brought in anyway. 

Interestingly too, in a season where young players seem to be really thriving, (D'Agostino, Wenzel-Halls, Yuel, Najjarine, Toure etc.) ours don't seem to be anywhere near that level. Colakovski and Tilio were great when coming on against Western United but then the following game, Tilio was sloppy and Cola somehow didn't warrant even an appearance off the bench? Is it a player issue or a management issue?

Whatever it is, this squad is way too mediocre to get anywhere near winning the championship. 

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1 hour ago, kingofhearts said:

I wish I could like this post twice.

It's amazing how poor of a club Melbourne heart were on and off the field and yet people talk about that time like they were the glory days. Don't get me wrong, I'll always love Melbourne heart but before they were taken over by city we were a nothing club that had stood for nothing, and had won nothing. How long would have they even survived if it wasn't for the city group taking them over?

I was their that day where we equalled the longest losing streak in history (against the nux I believe) and I can tell you right now, if you think this game was bad, that game may have been the worst live sporting experience I have ever had in my life. People abusing the staff, memberships been thrown on the ground, just a complete shitshow and feeling of nothingness as a fan.

The best thing about heart was the fans, our active area as well as the numerous people I had met during game days were some of the best people around.You could argue too that being such a small club we felt we were more a part of it than bigger clubs.

Yes, we sold our soul to an extent when getting bought by city, but the trade off was the promise of success. We haven't reached the heights of winning multiple championships but our city era has been way more successful and sustainable and whilst not perfect, has made us relevant in this league again.

People also need to understand how thin our list is as well. Not having Griffiths, nabbout and O'Neill has really killed us. We're playing so many kids, this has been one of the first seasons in which I'm struggling to remember the names of some of our players. It seems like we're blooding a new player every week. I believe even when we played western United we fielded one of the youngest teams in a-league history I believe?

Combine that with a rookie coach, who will make mistakes along the way, to expect anymore then a finals birth this season is wishful fixing. I think it's fair to critique our list as we could've made better signings (especially our visa's) but to act like the sky is falling so early in the season is a complete overreaction.

TLDR: Get some perspective people, not all is bad!!!

Yes, the heart days were the glory days purely because of the fans. Much more passion and emotional investment in the club.

I feel that is what is lacking these days the club have shifted further towards being a product we consume and away from a club we love. Or atleast thats what it feels like to me, someone who has been through it all with Heart and to a lesser extent City.

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12 minutes ago, malloy said:

Yes, the heart days were the glory days purely because of the fans. Much more passion and emotional investment in the club.

I feel that is what is lacking these days the club have shifted further towards being a product we consume and away from a club we love. Or atleast thats what it feels like to me, someone who has been through it all with Heart and to a lesser extent City.

What specifically does the club need to do to make you feel more like it’s a club rather than a product? This is a genuine question not a dig btw

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8 hours ago, GreenSeater said:

What specifically does the club need to do to make you feel more like it’s a club rather than a product? This is a genuine question not a dig btw

Honestly, I don't really know.

Part of it might be that we just feel like an academy to produce players in the hope tgat CFG can find a gem.

Another parf of it might be that every time I start having a new favourite player we seem to no let them go.

Another part might be that the decline of active has significantly reduced the match day atmosphere.

 

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9 hours ago, GreenSeater said:

What specifically does the club need to do to make you feel more like it’s a club rather than a product? This is a genuine question not a dig btw

 

32 minutes ago, malloy said:

Honestly, I don't really know.

Part of it might be that we just feel like an academy to produce players in the hope tgat CFG can find a gem.

Another parf of it might be that every time I start having a new favourite player we seem to no let them go.

Another part might be that the decline of active has significantly reduced the match day atmosphere.

 

IMO, predominantly at least, its this.
To me it seems a significant portion of our fan base did a deal with the devil somewhat; they told themselves that they'd accept the colour changes etc in a trade off for trophies success. Thats an internal deal, its not made with anyone else, and so when the trophies didnt come, even though we seem objectively better in almost every single sense from a club operational perspective, then those fans felt like the club hasnt met their expectations.
As a flow on fan engagement has dropped, the active isn't even a shadow of its former self (due to a combination of draconian policing, poor organisation from the terraces and lack of interest from the above point) and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. 
Heart's greatest strength was Yarraside and the off field value they brought; the pre-game pub culture, the atmosphere they brought, the chants werent cookie cutter like most are now; they had specific player chants and things that took a little bit of effort to learn etc. You used to be able to go to the pub and meet fans each week and generate a real off-field club atmosphere. That's borderline dead now imo.
There is literally no other aspect that the club was better at then than they are now, and tbh you could well argue thats not really the clubs fault at all.

Edited by bt50
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44 minutes ago, bt50 said:

 

IMO, predominantly at least, its this.
To me it seems a significant portion of our fan base did a deal with the devil somewhat; they told themselves that they'd accept the colour changes etc in a trade off for trophies success. Thats an internal deal, its not made with anyone else, and so when the trophies didnt come, even though we seem objectively better in almost every single sense from a club operational perspective, then those fans felt like the club hasnt met their expectations.
As a flow on fan engagement has dropped, the active isn't even a shadow of its former self (due to a combination of draconian policing, poor organisation from the terraces and lack of interest from the above point) and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. 
Heart's greatest strength was Yarraside and the off field value they brought; the pre-game pub culture, the atmosphere they brought, the chants werent cookie cutter like most are now; they had specific player chants and things that took a little bit of effort to learn etc. You used to be able to go to the pub and meet fans each week and generate a real off-field club atmosphere. That's borderline dead now imo.
There is literally no other aspect that the club was better at then than they are now, and tbh you could well argue thats not really the clubs fault at all.

Yup. For me its definitely the atmosphere which has taken my interested to a lower level. Hence I was so annoyed when the club finally was trying to improve things with the seating arrangement but some of our fan base couldn’t see passed this.

On field, the key to ultimate succes is so obvious in this league and thus gain fan interest. Just spend proper money on actual marquee players and visa players. I know it’s not my money but silverware will come and fans will return. We do have the backing and financially edge over most other clubs but are simple not doing it, a extra 500k on marquee players can go a long way (unless we really are overpaying some players).

Edited by Mr MO
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1 hour ago, bt50 said:

 

IMO, predominantly at least, its this.
To me it seems a significant portion of our fan base did a deal with the devil somewhat; they told themselves that they'd accept the colour changes etc in a trade off for trophies success. Thats an internal deal, its not made with anyone else, and so when the trophies didnt come, even though we seem objectively better in almost every single sense from a club operational perspective, then those fans felt like the club hasnt met their expectations.
As a flow on fan engagement has dropped, the active isn't even a shadow of its former self (due to a combination of draconian policing, poor organisation from the terraces and lack of interest from the above point) and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. 
Heart's greatest strength was Yarraside and the off field value they brought; the pre-game pub culture, the atmosphere they brought, the chants werent cookie cutter like most are now; they had specific player chants and things that took a little bit of effort to learn etc. You used to be able to go to the pub and meet fans each week and generate a real off-field club atmosphere. That's borderline dead now imo.
There is literally no other aspect that the club was better at then than they are now, and tbh you could well argue thats not really the clubs fault at all.

Well, that's your judgement, but not necessarily everyone's. 

Ultimately IMO this argument or discussion comes down as to objectivity versus subjectivity. I assume that the club is meeting the objectives set for it by its owners, and is setting the course for getting where it wants to be in the future; otherwise it would be doing things differently. However, clearly for some supporters/fans they don't subjectively feel the same way about it as they once did.

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5 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

Well, that's your judgement, but not necessarily everyone's. 

Ultimately IMO this argument or discussion comes down as to objectivity versus subjectivity. I assume that the club is meeting the objectives set for it by its owners, and is setting the course for getting where it wants to be in the future; otherwise it would be doing things differently. However, clearly for some supporters/fans they don't subjectively feel the same way about it as they once did.

Perhaps, i think if you laid everything down that Heart did, and everything down that City do now i think you would find thats the case.
The gap that has widened or gone the other way imo is due to expectations, and there's nothing wrong with that either. I think we should have elevated expectations of the club in the City era. And i'm certainly not advocating the club are perfect, haven't made errors or can't improve.

I suppose what im trying to point out is that i dont think theres anything tangible the club was doing back then that they're not doing now.

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13 hours ago, GreenSeater said:

What specifically does the club need to do to make you feel more like it’s a club rather than a product? This is a genuine question not a dig btw

What CFG needs to do is treasure its fans but, more importantly, treasure the active. The atmosphere that they generate is what makes the game so good. It has certainly diminished and, whilst there are several factors, I would put some of the blame squarely with CFG and their top down approach. Active, like most of the fans now feel incidental. It doesn't take much effort but CFG just need to show some encouragement, support and inclusion.

 

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55 minutes ago, mjake1234 said:

What CFG needs to do is treasure its fans but, more importantly, treasure the active. The atmosphere that they generate is what makes the game so good. It has certainly diminished and, whilst there are several factors, I would put some of the blame squarely with CFG and their top down approach. Active, like most of the fans now feel incidental. It doesn't take much effort but CFG just need to show some encouragement, support and inclusion.

 

FWIW, as someone that was actively involved in running the active for a couple of seasons, the club were very, very rarely the issue. It was usually VicPol or FFA that caused most of the headaches.
I would probably suggest that the club are far more likely to push a cause with the third party when they have a good relationship with the leaders of the active however, that's a pretty normal reaction though.

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17 minutes ago, bt50 said:

FWIW, as someone that was actively involved in running the active for a couple of seasons, the club were very, very rarely the issue. It was usually VicPol or FFA that caused most of the headaches.
I would probably suggest that the club are far more likely to push a cause with the third party when they have a good relationship with the leaders of the active however, that's a pretty normal reaction though.

At the time of Yarraside it was said that there was direct dialogue between said group and our CEO Scott Munn.

Does such direct contact exist now?

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2 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

At the time of Yarraside it was said that there was direct dialogue between said group and our CEO Scott Munn.

Does such direct contact exist now?

Can't speak for now as im not involved anymore.
When it was Melburnians we had access to Munn if we needed him, but operationally it was always one of the more day to day staff. As it should be.

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