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jw1739

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I dont really care whether he's a name, i tend to think the league is a better standard that wheeling in some geriatric name, given thats about all we can afford as clubs on the global scale.

I tend to think Battocchio reads reasonably well CV wise. Still only 30, plenty of experience at strong European leagues and interestingly, looking at how often he is substituted in and out, he's definitely a player that performs a specific role. Seems to me to be exactly the sort of player that you would want when teams set up a low block against you; in which case im very interested as its really been our achilles heel.

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1 hour ago, bt50 said:

I dont really care whether he's a name, i tend to think the league is a better standard that wheeling in some geriatric name, given thats about all we can afford as clubs on the global scale.

I tend to think Battocchio reads reasonably well CV wise. Still only 30, plenty of experience at strong European leagues and interestingly, looking at how often he is substituted in and out, he's definitely a player that performs a specific role. Seems to me to be exactly the sort of player that you would want when teams set up a low block against you; in which case im very interested as its really been our achilles heel.

How do you see him bringing anything different that RvdV?

We would essentially be replacing Metcalf (CM/AM), Endoh (AM), Pucci (AM/FW) with RvdV (CM/AM) and Batto (CM/AM/DM). Midfield did become a concern throughout the season so I welcome reinforcements.

For years now we seem to be targetting foreign midfield players with similar profiles and age groups with only Luna meeting the expected standards.

The issue with team defending deep and the ability to break them down also sits with the forward 3, so we need to do something different there too. 

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3 minutes ago, Mr MO said:

How do you see him bringing anything different that RvdV?

My question too.

Further, whether we like it or not, APL has decided that the league does need an injection of name/reputation players, and IMO we're looking at the name of Battocchio and saying that he doesn't cut it in that respect. Football is more than just the football - it's entertainment and showbiz.

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30 minutes ago, Mr MO said:

How do you see him bringing anything different that RvdV?

 

It's a good question and a valid concern. Ultimately i don't really have an answer as to whether VdV is more a Metcalfe or a 10 until i see him play, but its entirely possible they are cut from the same cloth.
Battochio to me has better credentials in terms of a 10 than VdV, but its really hard to know until we see them in action. Ultimately i have more trust in the guys that do it for a job than anyone else in terms of picking the men for the job in advance though. Hindsight is obviously much easier to criticise.

 

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55 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

My question too.

Further, whether we like it or not, APL has decided that the league does need an injection of name/reputation players, and IMO we're looking at the name of Battocchio and saying that he doesn't cut it in that respect. Football is more than just the football - it's entertainment and showbiz.

Exactly well said I want the club to be successful on the pitch and off it. When we won the title nobody cared I want the club to be known in the community 

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1 hour ago, jw1739 said:

My question too.

Further, whether we like it or not, APL has decided that the league does need an injection of name/reputation players, and IMO we're looking at the name of Battocchio and saying that he doesn't cut it in that respect. Football is more than just the football - it's entertainment and showbiz.

Bang on would like the club to show more ambition in visa signings, our club should be targeting players with a higher echelon which ultimately could bring some more fans to the ground. 
 

This signing is just meh should aim higher 

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Mixed feelings on this discussion. I'm not hugely excited by signing big name has-beens. We've seen ourselves how useless that can be, and the saga of Sturridge should be in everyone's mind. Our best players have often been unknown, or previously modest in their profile. Think Fornaroli, Mooy and Luna. I'd far rather build a team which is greater than the sum of its parts, but is great to watch. For sure, let's aim for high standards and try to sign good players, but I am not interested in some big name Charlie who ends up being here for the sun and the salary, and doesn't contribute sufficiently. We're not Perth or Victory.  We're a serious, professional operation.

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3 hours ago, fensaddler said:

Mixed feelings on this discussion. I'm not hugely excited by signing big name has-beens. We've seen ourselves how useless that can be, and the saga of Sturridge should be in everyone's mind. Our best players have often been unknown, or previously modest in their profile. Think Fornaroli, Mooy and Luna. I'd far rather build a team which is greater than the sum of its parts, but is great to watch. For sure, let's aim for high standards and try to sign good players, but I am not interested in some big name Charlie who ends up being here for the sun and the salary, and doesn't contribute sufficiently. We're not Perth or Victory.  We're a serious, professional operation.

I completely agree with this of course. This is what we all want but we are low on confidence on the ability to operate in such an professional way as we have more failures than wins (Bruno and Luna) IMO.

The below keeps haunting me.

Melbourne City FC Director of Football Michael Petrillo said:

“Manuel is a really talented player, he has excellent technical skills to play as a midfielder but also the sharpness to play as an attacker which makes him the ideal player for our squad. 

“We took our time in making this choice, not only were we looking for these attributes, we also want a player with the ability and desire to work hard in and out of possession, which is a vital for the way we play football.

Edited by Mr MO
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It's all about what each player contributes to the team and what the team contributes to each player. David Villa, playing in that standard of the team we had then, was far less effective than he would be if he were signed to our current team. It was clear that his understanding of space and movement was not shared by his teammates then, whereas now, he would be far more of a goal-scoring machine. This is exactly when a quality player will be more effective, not just in terms of bums on seats, but in outcome for the team.

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1 hour ago, Mr MO said:

I completely agree with this of course. This is what we all want but we are low on confidence on the ability to operate that professional way as we have more failures than wins (Bruno and Luna).

The below keeps haunting me.

Melbourne City FC Director of Football Michael Petrillo said:

“Manuel is a really talented player, he has excellent technical skills to play as a midfielder but also the sharpness to play as an attacker which makes him the ideal player for our squad. 

“We took our time in making this choice, not only were we looking for these attributes, we also want a player with the ability and desire to work hard in and out of possession, which is a vital for the way we play football.

You're never going to ht 100% of your imports - there are too many factors at play when scouting and signing foreign players to a salary capped league, played in summer, on the other side of the world. I think the idea we've had more hits than misses is nonsense too. Let's have a closer look (going back to the 2015/16 season):

Sorensen - Hit

Hughes - Miss

Novillo - Hit

Fornaroli - Hit

Colazo - Miss

Jakobsen - Hit

Brandan - Miss (but was very fun)

Schenkeveld - Hit

La Rocca - Hit

Budzinski - Miss

De Laet - Hit

Harrison - Miss

Florin - Hit

Noone - Hit

Windbichler - Miss

Luna - Hit

Cabrera - Miss

Susaeta - Miss

Hendry - Miss

Reis - Hit

Tsubaki - Miss

Jenkinsn - Hit?

Endoh - Miss

Pucciarelli - Miss

 

So we probably hit on half of our import signings, and I think a lot of the misses could be put down to signing mid season (far less likely to succeed) and injury.

 

Additionally, we know it makes little to no financial sense to sign big name and money international players, and that's not even taking into consideration what they can bring to the table on field at 35yo+. 

 

Anyway, I'm keen to see what Battocchio can do. I like the CV and think our midfield was our clear weak link last season - hopefully him and RvdV are creative types.

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5 minutes ago, marn11 said:

You're never going to ht 100% of your imports - there are too many factors at play when scouting and signing foreign players to a salary capped league, played in summer, on the other side of the world. I think the idea we've had more hits than misses is nonsense too. Let's have a closer look (going back to the 2015/16 season):

Sorensen - Hit

Hughes - Miss

Novillo - Hit

Fornaroli - Hit

Colazo - Miss

Jakobsen - Hit

Brandan - Miss (but was very fun)

Schenkeveld - Hit

La Rocca - Hit

Budzinski - Miss

De Laet - Hit

Harrison - Miss

Florin - Hit

Noone - Hit

Windbichler - Miss

Luna - Hit

Cabrera - Miss

Susaeta - Miss

Hendry - Miss

Reis - Hit

Tsubaki - Miss

Jenkinsn - Hit?

Endoh - Miss

Pucciarelli - Miss

 

So we probably hit on half of our import signings, and I think a lot of the misses could be put down to signing mid season (far less likely to succeed) and injury.

 

Additionally, we know it makes little to no financial sense to sign big name and money international players, and that's not even taking into consideration what they can bring to the table on field at 35yo+. 

 

Anyway, I'm keen to see what Battocchio can do. I like the CV and think our midfield was our clear weak link last season - hopefully him and RvdV are creative types.

We always forget the fat Scotsman, who was an absolute hit, albeit for too short a time, and one of the highlights of an otherwise dire season. Brandan was surely a hit? I'd also argue about Harrison, who was actually promising, and Cabrera, who looked marginally better than Luna when he left due to homesickness. Hendry would have been a hit but for almost immediate injury. Windybich was OK, but another one felled by injury.

But largely agree with the thrust of this. We've had plenty of import successes to set alongside some notable failures.

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4 hours ago, marn11 said:

You're never going to ht 100% of your imports - there are too many factors at play when scouting and signing foreign players to a salary capped league, played in summer, on the other side of the world. I think the idea we've had more hits than misses is nonsense too. Let's have a closer look (going back to the 2015/16 season):

Sorensen - Hit

Hughes - Miss

Novillo - Hit

Fornaroli - Hit

Colazo - Miss

Jakobsen - Hit

Brandan - Miss (but was very fun)

Schenkeveld - Hit

La Rocca - Hit

Budzinski - Miss

De Laet - Hit

Harrison - Miss

Florin - Hit

Noone - Hit

Windbichler - Miss

Luna - Hit

Cabrera - Miss

Susaeta - Miss

Hendry - Miss

Reis - Hit

Tsubaki - Miss

Jenkinsn - Hit?

Endoh - Miss

Pucciarelli - Miss

 

So we probably hit on half of our import signings, and I think a lot of the misses could be put down to signing mid season (far less likely to succeed) and injury.

 

Additionally, we know it makes little to no financial sense to sign big name and money international players, and that's not even taking into consideration what they can bring to the table on field at 35yo+. 

 

Anyway, I'm keen to see what Battocchio can do. I like the CV and think our midfield was our clear weak link last season - hopefully him and RvdV are creative types.

Koren? Was still part of the squad on 15/16 I believe.

You make it sound like that’s an achievement to be proud of, having a subjective 50% succes rate. For a club with our resources it’s not good enough IMO, we need to up our game.

There is a big category of players in between the big old star names and level of our current marquees, and yes they cost a little money hence we got this salary cap exemptions in place.


 

3 hours ago, fensaddler said:

We always forget the fat Scotsman, who was an absolute hit, albeit for too short a time, and one of the highlights of an otherwise dire season. Brandan was surely a hit? I'd also argue about Harrison, who was actually promising, and Cabrera, who looked marginally better than Luna when he left due to homesickness. Hendry would have been a hit but for almost immediate injury. Windybich was OK, but another one felled by injury.

But largely agree with the thrust of this. We've had plenty of import successes to set alongside some notable failures.

We need to differentiate between failed normal visas and failed marquees. It’s the latter what hurts most.

 

Edited by Mr MO
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I think that the this most recent discussion started in the context of a rumour that we are interested in signing Battocchio and that this is in the context of APL's interest in 35 players it hopes could rekindle interest in the league (or leagues if women are included).

Neither may be true of course.

I would have said that in our history we've signed only two players who could really be called bums-on-seats players - David Villa and Tim Cahill. Even they are not in the same class. There's no question Villa drew the fans, but Timmy's impact on attendances was marginal at best.

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Also forgot about O'Halloran in 2016 which was a Miss. There's an article in the Roar posing a question from where are the best Visas from, with one guy saying South America and another arguing Eastern Europe. I've gone through our Heart/City players and I reckon South America runs at around 66 percent of a sample of 9, Europe at 60 per cent of a sample of 32, Asia at 33 per cent of a sample of 3, and Africa of a sample of one was debatable. Best country Netherlands despite Meeuwis and Denmark and France in Europe. Uruguay in South America, Cabrera being debatable. Worst is Ireland apart from Duff and Scotland apart from McCormack, and Italy, La Rocca was ok, and Argentina in South America 

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41 minutes ago, fensaddler said:

We always forget the fat Scotsman, who was an absolute hit, albeit for too short a time, and one of the highlights of an otherwise dire season. Brandan was surely a hit? I'd also argue about Harrison, who was actually promising, and Cabrera, who looked marginally better than Luna when he left due to homesickness. Hendry would have been a hit but for almost immediate injury. Windybich was OK, but another one felled by injury.

But largely agree with the thrust of this. We've had plenty of import successes to set alongside some notable failures.

Yeah, I should've mentioned I probably missed a few as I just ran a 2 minute wikipedia scout. 

 

Point still stands - we sit at about 50/50. 

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17 minutes ago, marn11 said:

Yeah, I should've mentioned I probably missed a few as I just ran a 2 minute wikipedia scout. 

 

Point still stands - we sit at about 50/50. 

No worries, it was a good list! Think we're a bit better than 50% success, but it's always about subjective opinions at the margins. FWIW I suspect we're no worse, and possibly better than average at this, compared to our peers. It's difficult to get it right all of the time, even with decent resources. Pucci was a horrible fail which we'd prefer not to repeat this season, but by the law of averages we're due a few hits soon, even from dumb luck...

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19 minutes ago, fensaddler said:

No worries, it was a good list! Think we're a bit better than 50% success, but it's always about subjective opinions at the margins. FWIW I suspect we're no worse, and possibly better than average at this, compared to our peers. It's difficult to get it right all of the time, even with decent resources. Pucci was a horrible fail which we'd prefer not to repeat this season, but by the law of averages we're due a few hits soon, even from dumb luck...

Agree, I also think we're better than 50%, was just trying to be extra critical for the sake of fairness. 

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3 hours ago, marn11 said:

You're never going to ht 100% of your imports - there are too many factors at play when scouting and signing foreign players to a salary capped league, played in summer, on the other side of the world. I think the idea we've had more hits than misses is nonsense too. Let's have a closer look (going back to the 2015/16 season):

Sorensen - Hit

Hughes - Miss

Novillo - Hit

Fornaroli - Hit

Colazo - Miss

Jakobsen - Hit

Brandan - Miss (but was very fun)

Schenkeveld - Hit

La Rocca - Hit

Budzinski - Miss

De Laet - Hit

Harrison - Miss

Florin - Hit

Noone - Hit

Windbichler - Miss

Luna - Hit

Cabrera - Miss

Susaeta - Miss

Hendry - Miss

Reis - Hit

Tsubaki - Miss

Jenkinsn - Hit?

Endoh - Miss

Pucciarelli - Miss

 

So we probably hit on half of our import signings, and I think a lot of the misses could be put down to signing mid season (far less likely to succeed) and injury.

 

Additionally, we know it makes little to no financial sense to sign big name and money international players, and that's not even taking into consideration what they can bring to the table on field at 35yo+. 

 

Anyway, I'm keen to see what Battocchio can do. I like the CV and think our midfield was our clear weak link last season - hopefully him and RvdV are creative types.

Lot of misses in the last 2-3 seasons on visa which is why the scepticism is valid 

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6 minutes ago, CityBoyz said:

Lot of misses in the last 2-3 seasons on visa which is why the scepticism is valid 

A lot depends on how the assessment of hit or miss is made. What are the criteria? I'd say it's desirable that a visa player should command a regular starting XI place, but others might disagree with that because frequently we don't know why a player is not selected, especially during the past two seasons with COVID. I also think it is unfair to rate a player as a miss if he has an traumatic injury - as an example Jack Hendry - but how do you assess a player who has a series of niggling injuries - such as Windbichler?

Just looking at the past two seasons we have had the following visa players:
Florin Berenguer
Nuno Reis
Craig Noone
Naoki Tsubaki
Adrian Luna
Carl Jenkinson
Tsubasa Endoh
Manuel Pucciarelli

I would have said that Tsubaki, Endoh and Pucci were fails because they barely had any minutes. Berenguer had a good season but it took him a long time to get there. Reis was OK but perhaps not so impressive as in his first season? I don't think we realised quite how important Noone and Luna were until they had left. For me Jenko was a bit of a carthorse, but he scored a couple and we won a Premiership with him, so...? And the season before we did the double, so were any of them really fails?

It's very subjective.

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12 hours ago, jw1739 said:

A lot depends on how the assessment of hit or miss is made. What are the criteria? I'd say it's desirable that a visa player should command a regular starting XI place, but others might disagree with that because frequently we don't know why a player is not selected, especially during the past two seasons with COVID. I also think it is unfair to rate a player as a miss if he has an traumatic injury - as an example Jack Hendry - but how do you assess a player who has a series of niggling injuries - such as Windbichler?

Just looking at the past two seasons we have had the following visa players:
Florin Berenguer
Nuno Reis
Craig Noone
Naoki Tsubaki
Adrian Luna
Carl Jenkinson
Tsubasa Endoh
Manuel Pucciarelli

I would have said that Tsubaki, Endoh and Pucci were fails because they barely had any minutes. Berenguer had a good season but it took him a long time to get there. Reis was OK but perhaps not so impressive as in his first season? I don't think we realised quite how important Noone and Luna were until they had left. For me Jenko was a bit of a carthorse, but he scored a couple and we won a Premiership with him, so...? And the season before we did the double, so were any of them really fails?

It's very subjective.

I think Luna was the key player, we really struggled to break the defensive lines of teams this season just gone. Luna repeatedly played those precise balls between the lines that broke down defences. 

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24 minutes ago, malloy said:

I think Luna was the key player, we really struggled to break the defensive lines of teams this season just gone. Luna repeatedly played those precise balls between the lines that broke down defences. 

Absolutely. He also had as good a work rate in terms of closing as anyone ive seen play for us; the energiser bunny role. Clearly we very much struggled to replace him imo.

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Realistically we are not gonna bring in a "bums in seat" kinda player due to 2 main reasons

1. who is actually available who is of a good age and won't get injured on the spot

2. we have no marquee slots left but we do have 2 Designated player slots which I believe Battocchio will probably go in IF we sign him 

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6 hours ago, bt50 said:

Absolutely. He also had as good a work rate in terms of closing as anyone ive seen play for us; the energiser bunny role. Clearly we very much struggled to replace him imo.

I'm assuming that we have signed Van Der Venne for this role.

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2 hours ago, jw1739 said:

I'm assuming that we have signed Van Der Venne for this role.

Not sure if you read the latest on the RvdV thread. Seems like he plays a more advanced role. Anyway, there's bound to be more incoming so waiting to see what we sign and how that shapes up on the pitch. Have to hope we've got something new and different to throw at the league in the coming season.

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59 minutes ago, fensaddler said:

Not sure if you read the latest on the RvdV thread. Seems like he plays a more advanced role. Anyway, there's bound to be more incoming so waiting to see what we sign and how that shapes up on the pitch. Have to hope we've got something new and different to throw at the league in the coming season.

That update from Tommykins was posted afterwards I think.

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7 hours ago, Zanty said:

Realistically we are not gonna bring in a "bums in seat" kinda player due to 2 main reasons

1. who is actually available who is of a good age and won't get injured on the spot

2. we have no marquee slots left but we do have 2 Designated player slots which I believe Battocchio will probably go in IF we sign him 

Were not even trying Sydney almost got Torres and now victory got Nani. We gotta at least go for someone 

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Looks like Macarthur didn't get their man. For us I'd be looking at three areas to strengthen, another midfielder, a centre back, and a tall forward. Quite a few decent urugayans as free agents in this bracket, there's Vecino 30 year old who's had a good career in Italy and Ramirez 31 who has played all over Europe although he's a bit of a luxury player. Also two Danish tall forwards I like the look of in Jorgensen and Makienok, 1.91cm and a giant 2.03cm. Both in Bundesliga, Jorgensen with Leverkusen and Feyenoord, Makienok recently with St Pauli with Jackson Irvine. I think on occassions we need something different to pint sized Maclaren. Especially at corners and crosses. We've always had decent visas from both these places so why not?

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37 minutes ago, Le Hack said:

Looks like Macarthur didn't get their man. For us I'd be looking at three areas to strengthen, another midfielder, a centre back, and a tall forward. Quite a few decent urugayans as free agents in this bracket, there's Vecino 30 year old who's had a good career in Italy and Ramirez 31 who has played all over Europe although he's a bit of a luxury player. Also two Danish tall forwards I like the look of in Jorgensen and Makienok, 1.91cm and a giant 2.03cm. Both in Bundesliga, Jorgensen with Leverkusen and Feyenoord, Makienok recently with St Pauli with Jackson Irvine. I think on occassions we need something different to pint sized Maclaren. Especially at corners and crosses. We've always had decent visas from both these places so why not?

I totally get where you're coming from with regards to a second striking option, but we'd be mental to allocate too much cap space to a player that is likely going to see very limited minutes as a second striker.
Totally different ball game when theres no cap and clubs are awash with money, but theres a reason most A League clubs in history dont have 2nd strikers that either arent Australian journeymen or kids.

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19 minutes ago, bt50 said:

I totally get where you're coming from with regards to a second striking option, but we'd be mental to allocate too much cap space to a player that is likely going to see very limited minutes as a second striker.
Totally different ball game when theres no cap and clubs are awash with money, but theres a reason most A League clubs in history dont have 2nd strikers that either arent Australian journeymen or kids.

I agree. We've got three front players in Maclaren, Leckie and Nabbout already, with Raph in reserve, and then the Academy boys. Nabbout is a bit erratic, but the other three are capable of scoring plenty IMO. I think what's missing, if anything, is not the striking power but rather the final pass - so many times it seems that we can't get it to where it should go.

If you look at last season, was our problem scoring or was it conceding?

Maybe we need another good MF, although it means someone is going to be on the bench, a replacement for Griff, possibly Jamo (or is that Talbot?) and I still would like to see a class GK although I doubt that the latter will happen.

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