Connor Chapman

[jw1739]

IMO we're short of defenders so it would be crazy to let him go. Although I don't think he's looked at all in the matches I've seen. If we were to do a swap and get someone bit more versatile across the back line then that could be an improvement?

Sydney are doing so well because they've got a very settled team. If nothing else in the second half of the season I'd like to see us do the same.

[melby]

18 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

IMO we're short of defenders so it would be crazy to let him go. Although I don't think he's looked at all in the matches I've seen. If we were to do a swap and get someone bit more versatile across the back line then that could be an improvement?

Sydney are doing so well because they've got a very settled team. If nothing else in the second half of the season I'd like to see us do the same.

Agreed he hasn't played too full potential but he has provided security at the back shown through results.

Tongyik and Malik for me are similar type players. Both good headers and dribblers and good at bringing ball out from the back quickly. Both however lack defensive positioning and knowhow. They get dragged out of position by attackers often and leave space in behind. They try play offside trap and allow teams to attack them down the middle. They mainly play short quick passes to cdms and rbs. The games are usually higher scoring and open. They prefer to make nice tackles then jockey and prevent dangerous attacks. In saying that when they play good it looks good and they usually make a lot of interceptions because they rush out of the defensive line often.

chapman for me much more like Jacobson. Jacobson obviously superior as expected with experience. Both play percentage defending and like to sit deeper and force opponents to shoot from distance or go wide when possible. They are good at delaying attacking teams and guiding them where they want them slowing the play down. They often like to switch it up and bypass the defensive mid and play switch balls to the flanking fullbacks or wingers when possible. They generally have low shots against and the games are tighter affairs. They both excel at reading the game. 

[haz]

1 hour ago, melby said:

 

Tongyik 5 games - 8 goals conceded and 6 points won

Chapman 4 games- 3 goals conceded and 8 points won. Yet to lose. 

 

How many of these were they next to Jakobsen, or Rose?

[malloy]

2 hours ago, melby said:

Agreed he hasn't played too full potential but he has provided security at the back shown through results.

Tongyik and Malik for me are similar type players. Both good headers and dribblers and good at bringing ball out from the back quickly. Both however lack defensive positioning and knowhow. They get dragged out of position by attackers often and leave space in behind. They try play offside trap and allow teams to attack them down the middle. They mainly play short quick passes to cdms and rbs. The games are usually higher scoring and open. They prefer to make nice tackles then jockey and prevent dangerous attacks. In saying that when they play good it looks good and they usually make a lot of interceptions because they rush out of the defensive line often.

chapman for me much more like Jacobson. Jacobson obviously superior as expected with experience. Both play percentage defending and like to sit deeper and force opponents to shoot from distance or go wide when possible. They are good at delaying attacking teams and guiding them where they want them slowing the play down. They often like to switch it up and bypass the defensive mid and play switch balls to the flanking fullbacks or wingers when possible. They generally have low shots against and the games are tighter affairs. They both excel at reading the game. 

I actually think Tongyik has a bit more of a Jacobson style than Malik style. Malik is, imo, a poor header of the ball and is far more concerned with just stopping a player as opposed to defending in a way in which assists the team transitioning into attack.  

Also regarding Tongyik the games he has been played in have usually been in a makeshift back three with two fullbacks making up that three. In a back 4 with a composed CB next to him in the WS game, I believe, he has shown that he does have that tactical style of defending in him and iirc he did hit balls out to the fullbacks and wingers.

 

Edit: FWIW I would be annoyed if we lost Chapman as I think he will be good with consistency in his game time and playing next to Jacobson

 

Edited January 9, 2017 by malloy

[melby]

1 hour ago, malloy said:

I actually think Tongyik has a bit more of a Jacobson style than Malik style. Malik is, imo, a poor header of the ball and is far more concerned with just stopping a player as opposed to defending in a way in which assists the team transitioning into attack.  

Also regarding Tongyik the games he has been played in have usually been in a makeshift back three with two fullbacks making up that three. In a back 4 with a composed CB next to him in the WS game, I believe, he has shown that he does have that tactical style of defending in him and iirc he did hit balls out to the fullbacks and wingers.

 

Edit: FWIW I would be annoyed if we lost Chapman as I think he will be good with consistency in his game time and playing next to Jacobson

 

Agreed tongyik games he has been thrown in deep end. Just see tongyik similarities with Malik with the way he is dragged out of position by attackers and is comfortable on the ball. I don't however agree with wanderers judgement. Wanderers were playing without a striker and probably had more clear chances then us. 

Not bagging him at all think he has done reasonably well considering the situation he was brought into the team however just think chapman could've offered more stability in that period and moving forward. 

Next few games will be interesting to see with Jacobson back. Apparently chapman was starting over tongyik against wanderers until he asked club to leave and was removed from squad. 

[jw1739]

Chappy is 22. Sometimes IMO these young players need to settle down and realise that there is competition for places in the match-day squad, and that it won't always be them who gets the gaffer's nod. That said, we all know that JvS was liable to stuff around with the selections for no apparent reason - Eyigun, Cavallo and Genreau come readily to mind and they're not the only ones.

Overall I hope that Chappy stays, and we build some stability into the squad instead of the huge turnovers that we have seen in the past.

[haz]

1 minute ago, jw1739 said:

Chappy is 22. Sometimes IMO these young players need to settle down and realise that there is competition for places in the match-day squad, and that it won't always be them who gets the gaffer's nod. That said, we all know that JvS was liable to stuff around with the selections for no apparent reason - Eyigun, Cavallo and Genreau come readily to mind and they're not the only ones.

Overall I hope that Chappy stays, and we build some stability into the squad instead of the huge turnovers that we have seen in the past.

How much worse can Chapman be at LB then Rose?

[bt50]

Rose hasnt even been that bad. Played his best game for the club on Friday night.

I swear full backs at this club get penciled in as whipping boys amongst our fans, regardless of the performance comparatively to the rest of the squad.

Edited January 9, 2017 by bt50

[Jovan]

6 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

Overall I hope that Chappy stays, and we build some stability into the squad instead of the huge turnovers that we have seen in the past.

Feel the same about Chapman staying. 

The stability and turnover of players is more a League thing than Club thing.

The FFA has indirectly forced clubs each season to kull and or rebuild annually. As soon as a team gets a decent squad it's almost impossible to keep it. 

As for bringing through young talent into senior players forget it, better to get a fringe out of favour player from another club.

Every team is playing for the here and now and if you get a few signings wrong or serious injuries to key players you can kiss your season goodbye. 

[Dylan]

19 minutes ago, bt50 said:

Rose hasnt even been that bad. Played his best game for the club on Friday night.

I swear full backs at this club get penciled in as whipping boys amongst our fans, regardless of the performance comparatively to the rest of the squad.

Except walker

[fensaddler]

7 hours ago, melby said:

Good word says chapman has multiple offers.

early Jan graham Arnold called city offering a swap deal for chapman, not sure which player was offered. Smart coaching, clear out one of his unwanted players clearing cap space while also bringing in player you want. If only city management were that strategic.

Also most other A-League clubs enquired but mariners and Adelaide really wanting him.

word is he asked city to leave because of lack of opportunities and very lucrative Asian offer. City told him no because they don't have any replacements and haven't been proactive in market.

Don't understand how he hasn't been playing this season, he hasn't lost s game when he's played and has conceded max 1 goal in games he's played. Don't want to lose him unless we get transfer fee but to be fair he should've played more this season and hasn't been given adequate opportunity. 

Tongyik 5 games - 8 goals conceded and 6 points won

Chapman 4 games- 3 goals conceded and 8 points won. Yet to lose. 

 

Can't see Sydney offering us a defender.  They've just sold one and have another crocked.  Can see what's in it for them, but not for us.  So stick, not twist.

[belaguttman]

7 minutes ago, fensaddler said:

Can't see Sydney offering us a defender.  They've just sold one and have another crocked.  Can see what's in it for them, but not for us.  So stick, not twist.

Who are they going to offer, the pedo?

If JVS was here it would be easy, they could just offer us any midfielder

[jw1739]

1 hour ago, bt50 said:

Rose hasnt even been that bad. Played his best game for the club on Friday night.

I swear full backs at this club get penciled in as whipping boys amongst our fans, regardless of the performance comparatively to the rest of the squad.

If that was his best I'd hate to see his worst. Did well in the first half I agree, but second half he was poor - passed the ball backwards at every opportunity.

Both Walker and Aziz were fan favourites.

Goalkeepers don't fare too well either.

[Deeming]

13 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

If that was his best I'd hate to see his worst. Did well in the first half I agree, but second half he was poor - passed the ball backwards at every opportunity.

Both Walker and Aziz were fan favourites.

Goalkeepers don't fare too well either.

Lucky our forwards get all the love: Mifsud, Williams...

[jw1739]

18 minutes ago, Deeming said:

Lucky our forwards get all the love: Mifsud, Williams...

As do (did) our coaches...

Perhaps we should compile a list of "heroes and villains?"

[n i k o]

2 hours ago, haz said:

How much worse can Chapman be at LB then Rose?

Scarily enough his performances earlier in the season at right back we're worse. So him at left back now is a scary proposition. 

[n i k o]

2 hours ago, bt50 said:

Rose hasnt even been that bad. Played his best game for the club on Friday night.

I swear full backs at this club get penciled in as whipping boys amongst our fans, regardless of the performance comparatively to the rest of the squad.

He has been extremely ordinary and the criticism is more than warranted. How does one player make major blunders that costs the whole team points escape such criticism I'm wondering. Might have to rename him Josh Walker. Tbh he was alright in some areas on Friday, couple good crosses, but on the whole a big weak link that totally stifles most forward plays. You only have to look at the body language and facial expression of the other players when he fucks up monumentally or plays a poor ball to know where he sits in the team. 

 

Edited January 9, 2017 by n i k o

[Jovan]

19 minutes ago, n i k o said:

He has been extremely ordinary and the criticism is more than warranted. How does one player make major blunders that costs the whole team points escape such criticism I'm wondering. Might have to rename him Josh Walker. Tbh he was alright in some areas on Friday, couple good crosses, but on the whole a big weak link that totally stifles most forward plays. You only have to look at the body language and facial expression of the other players when he fucks up monumentally or plays a poor ball to know where he sits in the team. 

 

Harsh.

IMO he played well against Wanderers was in our best 3. But definitely coming from a low base.

[n i k o]

23 minutes ago, Jovan said:

Harsh.

IMO he played well against Wanderers was in our best 3. But definitely coming from a low base.

Granted he hasn't made major blunders recently. Earlier in the season he did, cost us points and our first choice keeper. 

IMO that's a huge call to put him in our top 3 performers. Off the top of my head I've got at least 5 players that played their roles far better than he did. I think he played his defensive duties relatively well and a some of his crosses were quality. Certainly wasn't his worst match by far. Definitely a low base as you say though. 

[bt50]

13 hours ago, n i k o said:

He has been extremely ordinary and the criticism is more than warranted. How does one player make major blunders that costs the whole team points escape such criticism I'm wondering. Might have to rename him Josh Walker. Tbh he was alright in some areas on Friday, couple good crosses, but on the whole a big weak link that totally stifles most forward plays. You only have to look at the body language and facial expression of the other players when he fucks up monumentally or plays a poor ball to know where he sits in the team. 

 

I just completely disagree. I'm not saying he's been a standout, or even in our best 11 players of the season but I think he's been unfairly maligned by some on here.
Muscat has been the same imo, albeit not as much perhaps.
I just reckon some on this forum have a) highly irrational expectations on full backs in this side, especially considering what they can earn compared to certain others in our side and b ) whipping boys they like to allocate blame to. This year its Rose or Muscat, for others its been Hoffman or Malik. 

Put it this way Rose and Muscat's body of work has been better (without being too good) than Jeremy Walkers was for the complete opposite reactions. Even Franjic and Zullo last year were probably worse, although both have had super seasons this year.   

Don't think too many people will disagree here that full back is a weak link, but that applies to most of the A League sides due to it being a poor paying position in this league. 

FWIW im a believer in Colazo at LB if we are serious about winning the toilet seat, all im saying is Rose is an ok backup.

Edited January 9, 2017 by bt50

[jw1739]

I don't recall the full-backs being the main whipping boys until Jack Clisby became a City player. IMO Zullo was picked on last season more because of his injury status and the feeling that he was only using us as a stepping stone to get back to Europe if he could. 

IMO it all stems from us being under-resourced in defence last season,and then signing two fairly ordinary full-backs towards the end of their careers for this season, and compounding that weakness by playing this stupid back three against fast counter-attacking sides. These factors have brought over-attention to the defence as a whole, not just the full-backs.

[belaguttman]

poor Iain Ramsay was the first full back whipping boy, deserved on his performance but then played out of position there by Bambi and by JVS. The problem is that whilst FBs are usually the last players recruited, they are crucial to the way that we want to play and have very demanding roles needing to be both excellent defenders and attackers as well as having good engines. I think that we are asking too much of the positions unless we recruit much better but that requires sacrifice somewhere else on the pitch

Edited January 9, 2017 by belaguttman

[bt50]

14 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

I don't recall the full-backs being the main whipping boys until Jack Clisby became a City player. IMO Zullo was picked on last season more because of his injury status and the feeling that he was only using us as a stepping stone to get back to Europe if he could. 

IMO it all stems from us being under-resourced in defence last season,and then signing two fairly ordinary full-backs towards the end of their careers for this season, and compounding that weakness by playing this stupid back three against fast counter-attacking sides. These factors have brought over-attention to the defence as a whole, not just the full-backs.

I don’t disagree with anything you’re saying there either (except perhaps the Zullo bit; he hardly did anything to warrant selection last season other than the promise of what he used to be before he went to Europe. And tbh that’s ok, I probably would have resigned him on the same deal on the premise that if he got a clean run at it he’d go well. Still, his and Franjic’s performances were ordinary last year at full back and the assertion they weren’t is a bit revisionist based on past/current form.)

It highlights the stupid coaching errors imo that forced two ageing full backs to play out of position in an unfamiliar system. Good on the coaches for trying something new, but ultimately it didn’t work and instead of them copping the heat by and large it was Muscat and Rose copping it for being expected to be able bomb up and down the wings and still be expected to account for counter attacking wingers.

[playmaker]

21 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

and compounding that weakness by playing this stupid back three against fast counter-attacking sides. 

Exactly this. Rose should never be playing as a CB in a back 3, as all he is good at is running the line all day.

 

[bt50]

7 minutes ago, belaguttman said:

poor Iaian Ramsay was the first full back whipping boy, deserved on his performance but then played out of position there by Bambi and by JVS. The problem is that whilst FBs are usually the last players recruited, they are crucial to the way that we want to play and have very demanding roles needing to be both excellent defenders and attackers as well as having good engines. I think that we are asking too much of the positions unless we recruit much better but that requires sacrifice somewhere else on the pitch

Much more eloquent way of saying what i was trying to haha

[rass]

Anyone remember Hoffman?

[Jovan]

6 minutes ago, rass said:

Anyone remember Hoffman?

I remember Behich and Marrone. 

Insert wistful sigh.....

[n i k o]

2 hours ago, bt50 said:

I just completely disagree. I'm not saying he's been a standout, or even in our best 11 players of the season but I think he's been unfairly maligned by some on here.
Muscat has been the same imo, albeit not as much perhaps.
I just reckon some on this forum have a) highly irrational expectations on full backs in this side, especially considering what they can earn compared to certain others in our side and b ) whipping boys they like to allocate blame to. This year its Rose or Muscat, for others its been Hoffman or Malik. 

Put it this way Rose and Muscat's body of work has been better (without being too good) than Jeremy Walkers was for the complete opposite reactions. Even Franjic and Zullo last year were probably worse, although both have had super seasons this year.   

Don't think too many people will disagree here that full back is a weak link, but that applies to most of the A League sides due to it being a poor paying position in this league. 

FWIW im a believer in Colazo at LB if we are serious about winning the toilet seat, all im saying is Rose is an ok backup.

Maligned is a bit far. Certainly been critical about him though. I don't set out to pick on a player for the kicks. I'd love nothing more than for his performances to improve and he certainly has had a couple of very solid games as well. Regarding Muscat true he has been average for some games however he has had some very solid games, almost being considered man of the match performances I recall.

We'll just have agree to disagree on this one. I think his blunders earlier in the season, his tendency to panick at times when he's on the ball and his forward play that often stifles us are too big a weaknesses to ignore. 

I do agree we need Colazo at left back for us to have any chance of winning the championship. 

 

[jw1739]

2 hours ago, belaguttman said:

poor Iain Ramsay was the first full back whipping boy, deserved on his performance but then played out of position there by Bambi and by JVS. The problem is that whilst FBs are usually the last players recruited, they are crucial to the way that we want to play and have very demanding roles needing to be both excellent defenders and attackers as well as having good engines. I think that we are asking too much of the positions unless we recruit much better but that requires sacrifice somewhere else on the pitch

Gosh, I'd forgotten Iain. Another winger crucified at LB was Garuccio. We have a very poor record with playing players out of position. It started with Matt Thompson.

Edited January 10, 2017 by jw1739

[mattyh001]

25 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

Gosh, I'd forgotten Iain. Another winger crucified at LB was Garuccio. We have a very poor record with playing players out of position. It started with Matt Thompson.

Which is why I have always been sympathetic in my view of Jack Clisby during his time at City.

People tend to forget Clisby came in at mid-season to nail down that position (since our other two options were Ramsey and Garuccio)

We then (by count) kept 6 clean sheets from 14 games in that time, conceding 17 (conceding 24 in our first 13).

So the way I see Clisby is that he came in and did a very good short term job.

Which is also why I agree with so much of this discussion that some people deride our fullbacks far too much.

Edited January 10, 2017 by mattyh001

[fensaddler]

5 hours ago, mattyh001 said:

Which is why I have always been sympathetic in my view of Jack Clisby during his time at City.

People tend to forget Clisby came in at mid-season to nail down that position (since our other two options were Ramsey and Garuccio)

We then (by count) kept 6 clean sheets from 14 games in that time, conceding 17 (conceding 24 in our first 13).

So the way I see Clisby is that he came in and did a very good short term job.

Which is also why I agree with so much of this discussion that some people deride our fullbacks far too much.

Tend to agree.  Two players that copped more criticism than they deserved last season were Clisby and Zullo.  And I think both have proved us wrong with their form this season for their new clubs.

[n i k o]

We might need chapman in 2 weeks should Tongyik get selected to go to Hong Kong 

[rayv36]

Chappys gone to Korea, disappointing but he wants first team action. We'll get a decent transfer fee for him. 

[Dylan]

Thwaite incoming 

[kingofhearts]

5 minutes ago, Dylan said:

Thwaite incoming 

I'll start the thread

[jw1739]

5 hours ago, rayv36 said:

Chappys gone to Korea, disappointing but he wants first team action. We'll get a decent transfer fee for him. 

Reference please?

[rayv36]

9 hours ago, jw1739 said:

Reference please?

I was lucky enough to sit up on level 2 with all the players and big wigs, I was told it up there.

[Heart of oakleigh]

7 minutes ago, rayv36 said:

I was lucky enough to sit up on level 2 with all the players and big wigs, I was told it up there.

Any other important info??

[rayv36]

11 minutes ago, Heart of oakleigh said:

Any other important info??

Nah not really but apparently the club didnt treat Chappy well during the whole process, could be a common theme hence Mauks attitude towards City?
No word on a coach but Valkanis wont get the No 1 job.

[jw1739]

1 hour ago, rayv36 said:

Nah not really but apparently the club didnt treat Chappy well during the whole process, could be a common theme hence Mauks attitude towards City?
No word on a coach but Valkanis wont get the No 1 job.

Unless we know details it's hard to say. But as an overall comment, it seems that contracts with A-League clubs don't seem to mean very much.