Newcastle Jets vs Melbourne heart 5:30pm Saturday 8th March

[NewConvert]

 

What I got from the game was that the Heart players cannot cope with physical treatment. Basically rough the boys up and then watch them crumble. The team should be aware that no ref is going to come to their assistance by applying the rules - that was made specially clear when Dugandzic was fouled in the box. The second thing was that last week MV tried to mark OE but failed however Zadcovic succeeded - this need not be the end of a game after all when Heart last played the Jets OE did not come on until the 60 min mark.

Up forward we had many opportunities but could not put them away. Hopefully this will not occur again this season.

The worst for me was the hoofball which I thought that the team had left behind. It did not work for the first 12 weeks, it did not work again.

 

Duga, Murdocca, Ramsay, Hoffman, Behich DO NOT WIN 50-50 challenges.  They lack the lower body strength to hold their ground in 50-50 ball challenge.  It happened against Brisbane, its happened since forever against Perf, and it happened against the Jest today.  THe conditioning department need to look at this because make no mistake this is a physical league.

 

True.

[Shahanga]

What I got from the game was that the Heart players cannot cope with physical treatment. Basically rough the boys up and then watch them crumble. The team should be aware that no ref is going to come to their assistance by applying the rules - that was made specially clear when Dugandzic was fouled in the box. The second thing was that last week MV tried to mark OE but failed however Zadcovic succeeded - this need not be the end of a game after all when Heart last played the Jets OE did not come on until the 60 min mark.

Up forward we had many opportunities but could not put them away. Hopefully this will not occur again this season.

The worst for me was the hoofball which I thought that the team had left behind. It did not work for the first 12 weeks, it did not work again.

Agree with this.

 

We've seen this before, particularly from those lovely people at Sydney FC.  Basically we are not very good at wrestling in a lot of positions, there is no point crying in our beer though, we have to play in a manner that negates a wrestling team and makes the result dependant on the football.  Last night we didn't do that. 

 

I expect JVS will take it on board and adapt.  He'll need to, because everyone else will have noticed and will be looking to do the same (well the mid table clubs anyway, Brisbane and Adelaide will just play their own games). 

[belaguttman]

Poor game, it's going to happen. I'd suspect that whatever was going on off the field for OE had more impact on his performance than Zadkovoc.

I'm not sure what JVS sees in Ramsay when he had BG on the bench - I'd be starting him over Ramsay

As others have said, I'm surprised he didn't shift to a back three and move an extra player into midfield to disrupt the Jets man marking strategy.

I'd like to find a way to have OE and HK on the pitch at the same time.

 

JVS' task is to motivate the team for next week's game at home, a must win for the rest of the season, although I'm more concerned about the way we play than a finals appearance.

[Dylan]

You would expect it's the response from games and results like this to be one of the main things that they would take into account in hiring JVS and if they decide to cut some players.

I'd say aziz may be on thin ice after that game and given the performance of Benny g in the derby

[Rellum]

 

What I got from the game was that the Heart players cannot cope with physical treatment. Basically rough the boys up and then watch them crumble. The team should be aware that no ref is going to come to their assistance by applying the rules - that was made specially clear when Dugandzic was fouled in the box. The second thing was that last week MV tried to mark OE but failed however Zadcovic succeeded - this need not be the end of a game after all when Heart last played the Jets OE did not come on until the 60 min mark.

Up forward we had many opportunities but could not put them away. Hopefully this will not occur again this season.

The worst for me was the hoofball which I thought that the team had left behind. It did not work for the first 12 weeks, it did not work again.

Agree with this.

 

We've seen this before, particularly from those lovely people at Sydney FC.  Basically we are not very good at wrestling in a lot of positions, there is no point crying in our beer though, we have to play in a manner that negates a wrestling team and makes the result dependant on the football.  Last night we didn't do that. 

 

I expect JVS will take it on board and adapt.  He'll need to, because everyone else will have noticed and will be looking to do the same (well the mid table clubs anyway, Brisbane and Adelaide will just play their own games). 

 

We shouldn't be letting the opposition players get close enough to start a wrestle battle for the ball. Player and ball movement should be too fast for them to get that close so often. This is where the pitch condition came into the game, it slowed down our ball movement and that played right into their hands. 

 

We should have overcome the pitch issue though, as I said during the game, we should have pushed someone up to play along side Orlando to give Newcastle two players to mark, take the man marking out of the game or at lest lessen it. We also needed another outlet to pass out of the back so I think we should have switched to a 3-4-3 during the first half. 

[hakz7]

Why were we playing so many long balls in the first half especially? It felt like a JA match. Was it cos of the pitch?

[Torn Asunder]

You win some, you lose some ...

It was just a bugger because:

A) it was against Newcastle, who are shite

B ) Ruben Zadkospaz got MOTM

C) we should have scored at least 1 b4 they did

D) we were denied a clear penalty at 0-0

E) it was a shocking game to watch

F) it ruined my mood Sat night

Lets hope we bounce back next week to keep our season alive

BTW, even though it hurts our chances, was glad to see WSW lose last night - that was sweet

Edited March 9, 2014 by Torn Asunder

[milanista93]

Why were we playing so many long balls in the first half especially? It felt like a JA match. Was it cos of the pitch?

Can't guarantee this was the reason, but it's what my money would be on. Not sure what it looked like on tv, but any time we tried a short pass, it fell dead. Looked like the ball was flat.

[xXJawsaXx]

Honestly, even though it was a shit performance I am not too concerned about making finals. To me, this season will be somewhat less of a disappointment if we could at least show an improvement after JvS came back, and in the grand scheme of things, we have. Some of the aspects that caused us to go nineteen or so games without a win are still going to be there despite getting a string of wins together.

[japiedog]

ok a few points

 

My first "session" at the Imp, great atmosphere, met some nice prople etc

 

We had enough chances to win that , I don't buy into the shit pitch etc, both teams played on that, we fluffed too many chances, Newcastle took one, plain and simple

 

The Engelaar / Zatcovich matchup was exactly the same as the Hernandez / Paddy G matchup.

Paddy stopped Carlos, we won 5-0

Ruben stopped Orlando they won 1-0

 

I know I'm going to get cruicified for this, but Zatkovich is the type of midfielder we need

Runs all day, is good on the ball, tackles, can score and has some mongrel in him ( nice way of saying it)

 

I stand to be corrected, but who in our squad ticks all those boxes

[kingofhearts]

I'm sick of this mediocrity, we all know what needs to be done.

sack JVS

[The Aardvark]

Watched it this morning not knowing the result and left dissapointed.

 

Unlike every other game JVS has managed us for, we had no discernable method or style of attack. It was very much Aloisi era of "lets just kick it and see what happens". 

 

Engelaar getting taken out of the match really hurt our focal point, but I was equally dissapointed with Ramsay and Dugandzic. Neither ever really managed to find space, and when they did very rarely did they finish the job, Ramsay especially. 

 

Hoffman actually was the more attacking of our two full backs, but unfortunately didn't have a good game and was taken off. He did atleast try and run the ball forward and force the Jets players to come to him, Aziz used to be great at taking them on and dragging them out of position, and yet now he rarely even tries. 

 

Kewell should have come on for any of the front three and forced newcastle to choose between he and Engelaar. We are yet to use these two at the same time and putting him in for Orlando played into Zadkovich's hands. We needed to make a change to open up space, and having two focal points who are very capable of releasing teammates with dangerous through balls may well have snatched a draw for us in that last twenty minutes. I thought that was just about the first blatant missed opportunity from JVS this year.

 

Garuccio in his limited time on the pitch also demonstrated why he should be on ahead of Aziz, and I would back him in next week with another start. Aziz needs a kick up the arse and Garrucio has earnt the opportunity.

 

Also Redmayne after a shkay first half was quality and deserves all the praise he gets. Some of his efforts were quality.

 

I think some of the reactions on here are a bit ridiculous. Ramsay has been pretty good underneath JVS including recent weeks, and while he does lack polish his crosses from set pieces have all been more dangerous than anybody else's and his work rate and ability to pose a threat have improved markedly. Our form still reads well and this gives us an opportunity to show that we are really a changed side and that we can make this loss an aberration instead of a return to the Heartless side we endured the first half of the season.

[jw1739]

You would expect it's the response from games and results like this to be one of the main things that they would take into account in hiring JVS and if they decide to cut some players.

I'd say aziz may be on thin ice after that game and given the performance of Benny g in the derby

Don't understand why Garuccio was dropped in the first place. He'd had a blinder in the derby, and it wasn't as if Aziz has been at his best lately.

[LR9]

You would expect it's the response from games and results like this to be one of the main things that they would take into account in hiring JVS and if they decide to cut some players.

I'd say aziz may be on thin ice after that game and given the performance of Benny g in the derby

Don't understand why Garuccio was dropped in the first place. He'd had a blinder in the derby, and it wasn't as if Aziz has been at his best lately.Apparently there is a clause in his loan deal from Bursaspor, which says he must start if fit/availible...

[jw1739]

 

 

You would expect it's the response from games and results like this to be one of the main things that they would take into account in hiring JVS and if they decide to cut some players.

I'd say aziz may be on thin ice after that game and given the performance of Benny g in the derby

Don't understand why Garuccio was dropped in the first place. He'd had a blinder in the derby, and it wasn't as if Aziz has been at his best lately. Apparently there is a clause in his loan deal from Bursaspor, which says he must start if fit/availible...

 

Are you serious?

[SF33]

 

I believe I heard something about Orlando arriving late in Newcastle due to personal reasons. Perhaps we could cut him some slack as his performances have been good. Today he wasn't in the game, but one game doesn't define a player. Hopefully he is up for the Wellington match.

source?

 

 

Yeah good point, Peter. Not having too much of a go (hopefully), more just saying that the other teams now have the blueprint for Engelaar. Hopefully his off-field issues aren't serious and he's back to his best next week.

 

Possiblygeorge: They said it 2-3 times on the telecast.

[K-aram92]

Very difficult game to watch. Felt like I'd gone back in time and was watching the Heart under JA. 

 

Now I'll probably get crucified for this comment but for all of the ridicule that has been dished out to Ramsey, I actually have been feeling the same way for Dugandzic. Despite the fact that he has had a few assists and goals to his name recently, if you took into consideration the amount of missed opportunities that he's had recently, it's certainly concerning. He works so hard to get into a goal scoring position where he's one on one with the goalie or on the end of a cross and all he needs to do is connect with the ball and ensure it's on target, but he finds a way to miss them more times that not. He did it against victory and from memory against brisbane as well. 

 

Mind you, I think this is the case with Willo and Ramsey too. Despite Williams having some blinders, more times than not he plays ordinary games where he misses golden opportunities. 

 

I'm desperately hoping that over the off season we sign a striker who is just clinical in front of goal because we'll never be the most consistent side in the league when Willo, Mate and Ramsey are relied on to score most of our goals. 

[MUTD/MLBHRT/ESSNDON]

Williams first touch is world class!

[Fingman]

With the outcome of today's games we are actually still not looking too bad. A win yesterday would have been a much better outcome, but I wouldn't say finals are any more or less likely to be honest.

Game by game. We can't get too ahead of ourselves.

[HEARTinator]

 

Mind you, I think this is the case with Willo and Ramsey too. Despite Williams having some blinders, more times than not he plays ordinary games where he misses golden opportunities. 

 

I'm desperately hoping that over the off season we sign a striker who is just clinical in front of goal because we'll never be the most consistent side in the league when Willo, Mate and Ramsey are relied on to score most of our goals.

Correct. The Tards have signed the Albanian Sharp Shooter to give them that edge in front of goals. When Willo is good he can be very good but when he is ordinary he is absolute shite. That is the problem. We want a stiker who can be a world beater on his day but when he's having an off day it should still be a reasonable perfomance that gives the team some grunt.

[Aaron Italia]

Williams first touch is world class!

said no one ever

[Peter]

 

 

I believe I heard something about Orlando arriving late in Newcastle due to personal reasons. Perhaps we could cut him some slack as his performances have been good. Today he wasn't in the game, but one game doesn't define a player. Hopefully he is up for the Wellington match.

source?

 

 

Yeah good point, Peter. Not having too much of a go (hopefully), more just saying that the other teams now have the blueprint for Engelaar. Hopefully his off-field issues aren't serious and he's back to his best next week.

 

Possiblygeorge: They said it 2-3 times on the telecast.

It will be a good test for Orlando. Hopefully he has the experience and ability to handle being man marked. If not to get the ball himself, at least to drag the opposition players out of position to make space for our other players.

As is said here, hopefully his personal issues will be resolved quickly. Both for the Heart and Orlando himself.

[FB.]

The season aint over until the fat grandma yoddles.

As Ronan Keating once said.

"This is the loss we had to have"

The boys will come out all Munns blazing next week and get the 3 points. Its a fatal complete if you ask me.

[malloy]

The season aint over until the fat grandma yoddles.

As Ronan Keating once said.

"This is the loss we had to have"

The boys will come out all Munns blazing next week and get the 3 points. Its a fatal complete if you ask me.

 

 

Do you mean Paul Keating?

[theresonlyonebzamora]

I also think he means 'fait accompli' but I'm not going to be that guy that corrects people (even though I am doing just that)

[Kiro Kompiro]

The season aint over until the fat grandma yoddles.

As Ronan Keating once said.

"This is the loss we had to have"

The boys will come out all Munns blazing next week and get the 3 points. Its a fatal complete if you ask me.

 

Post of the season.  Funny on so many levels.

[silva10]

Just wanted to say unlucky for you guys

The pitch was awful and stopped you playing your usual game.

Having said that had Ramsey been able to head the ball you would have had a great start.

Then a few missed chances kept them in it

Still all to play for so keep the faith lads

[M13]

Crap weekend this..Heart lost, City lost and my mother in law have just settled in for a longer stay

[MHFCROB24]

shame that we lost, However some chances were created, surface was horrible and the jets took their chance, The last 2 months have been such a joy to watch, So finals or not i hope we can keep up the good work we have displayed the last 2 months.

[NewConvert]

Perhaps the team was flat because of the derby a week earlier. It happens in the AFL where a big match is followed by a disappointing result/game the following week due to players being physically and mentally spent.

[Jovan]

If 5 weeks ago you said we would have 2 out of 3 wins. All would take it. We just got spoilt with actually pretty committed consistent performances by entire squad. Too many below par efforts including JVS. Next 2 games will put the last 6 in full context. Hopefully we bounce back and go on another roll. Can't wait.

[Murfy1]

Some stats from the game:

 

Passes completed

 

Kalmar 22 out of 27 (81%)

Dugandzic 19 out of 24 (79%)

Murdocca 28 out of 36 (78%)

Kisnorbo 38 out of 50 (76%)

Ramsay 13 out of 17 (76%)

Wielaert 45 out of 62 (73%)

Redmayne 19 out of 28 (68%)

Germano 26 out of 40 (65%)

Williams 19 out of 30 (63%)

Kewell 12 out of 19 (63%)

Engelaar 11 out of 18 (61%)

Hoffman 15 out of 26 (58%)

Garuccio 7 out of 12 (58%)

Behich 12 out of 22 (55%)

 

Heart total passes completed 286 out of 411 (70%)

 

 

Only 4 out of 17 'take-ons' were successful

 

 

Shots. 9 shots taken, none on target:

 

 

 

Pretty much bad across the board. But the things I'd highlight are Engelaar barely getting on the ball, the team poorly passing overall (and in particular forward passes weren't good. And there were too many long balls), the team wasn't very good in an attacking/creative sense (as shown by Heart failing 11 out of 15 'take-ons') and the finishing was woeful, without a single shot on target (and far too few shots in general and too few chances created. The fact is this Heart side needs a lot more shots than 9, and more better chances, to consistently find the back of the net).

[kingofhearts]

It still amazes me that 'professional footballers' can play a game of soccer, and not have 1 shot on goal.

 

We were playing Newcastle, not Barcelona ffs

[Defibrillator]

Just watched the replay after being away for the weekend and the thing that struck me was complacency from Heart - sheer complacency. Gone was the manic desire to win the ball like the derby, gone the enthusiasm and some of the efforts seen were really poor.

Although it's poor I'm not overly surprised. The hype of the biggest ever derby win, the press all this week saying we are a shoe in for finals, it just looked like they thought it would just happen and reverted to old bad habits. One thing football teaches you is you take nothing for granted and anything can happen. You just don't show up and get a result - look at MCFC last night for example. Hopefully we can recover from this very quickly. The glory dash for finals is still possible (highly unlikely I admit), but there can't be any missteps now. The next two home games crucial but more importantly to me than finals, I just don't want us to revert to the long ball shit like we did on Saturday. We were progressing, and yes Saturday was a setback, but I hope JVS can again turn the ship around and have us playing football worth watching. The thought of more Aloisi style viewing makes me feel sick.

[silva10]

I really do believe the state of the pitch dictated the style of football played.

 

The home team was quite happy to play a long ball game and fight for the scraps. It doesn't suit the Heart from what I have seen of them this last 6 weeks or so.

 

Personally I would have dropped Engelaar into a deeper position after 30 minutes and see if he could have controlled the game from there.

[Embee]

Watched it this morning not knowing the result and left dissapointed.

 

Unlike every other game JVS has managed us for, we had no discernable method or style of attack. It was very much Aloisi era of "lets just kick it and see what happens". 

 

Engelaar getting taken out of the match really hurt our focal point, but I was equally dissapointed with Ramsay and Dugandzic. Neither ever really managed to find space, and when they did very rarely did they finish the job, Ramsay especially. 

 

Hoffman actually was the more attacking of our two full backs, but unfortunately didn't have a good game and was taken off. He did atleast try and run the ball forward and force the Jets players to come to him, Aziz used to be great at taking them on and dragging them out of position, and yet now he rarely even tries. 

 

Kewell should have come on for any of the front three and forced newcastle to choose between he and Engelaar. We are yet to use these two at the same time and putting him in for Orlando played into Zadkovich's hands. We needed to make a change to open up space, and having two focal points who are very capable of releasing teammates with dangerous through balls may well have snatched a draw for us in that last twenty minutes. I thought that was just about the first blatant missed opportunity from JVS this year.

 

Garuccio in his limited time on the pitch also demonstrated why he should be on ahead of Aziz, and I would back him in next week with another start. Aziz needs a kick up the arse and Garrucio has earnt the opportunity.

 

Also Redmayne after a shkay first half was quality and deserves all the praise he gets. Some of his efforts were quality.

 

I think some of the reactions on here are a bit ridiculous. Ramsay has been pretty good underneath JVS including recent weeks, and while he does lack polish his crosses from set pieces have all been more dangerous than anybody else's and his work rate and ability to pose a threat have improved markedly. Our form still reads well and this gives us an opportunity to show that we are really a changed side and that we can make this loss an aberration instead of a return to the Heartless side we endured the first half of the season.

 

Agree with you 100% here, especially on Aziz and Ramsay.

 

Ramsay was horrendous in front of goal today but at least he gets involved and causes problems, when Williams is off he literally does nothing at all and Duga was invisible for large periods of the game.

 

Aziz has regressed terribly in the last 12 months and I can't quite understand why. I get that JVS didn't drop him after one brilliant Garuccio performance but after how well the kid played again when he came on I think that next week he has to come in for Aziz.

 

Redders is actually a quality shot stopper but he can be a little flappy at times. Still, he really kept us in it against Newcastle and deserves a fair bit of praise.

 

Changes for next match:

 

Kewell in for Willo

Benny G in for Aziz

[jw1739]

I really do believe the state of the pitch dictated the style of football played.

 

The home team was quite happy to play a long ball game and fight for the scraps. It doesn't suit the Heart from what I have seen of them this last 6 weeks or so.

 

Personally I would have dropped Engelaar into a deeper position after 30 minutes and see if he could have controlled the game from there.

This is the sort of thing that is going to happen in the FFA Cup, and the A-League teams are going to have to cope with it.

[Embee]

 

I really do believe the state of the pitch dictated the style of football played.

 

The home team was quite happy to play a long ball game and fight for the scraps. It doesn't suit the Heart from what I have seen of them this last 6 weeks or so.

 

Personally I would have dropped Engelaar into a deeper position after 30 minutes and see if he could have controlled the game from there.

This is the sort of thing that is going to happen in the FFA Cup, and the A-League teams are going to have to cope with it.

 

 

Too true, but circumstances like having a Sprinsteen concert or a Motocross event (apparently what caused the damage in Newcastle) are appalling in my opinion. That's different than simply travelling to a semi-professional team who simply don't have the cash to maintain their pitch to an A-League level.

 

I understand teams/The FFA don't always own these stadiums (do any A-League teams own their own?) and can therefore not monopolize the use of them but there needs to be a level of respect towards our sport when these events are planned. The event in Newcastle changed the complexity of an A-League match on Saturday, can anything be done about it though? Probably not.

Edited March 11, 2014 by King Malta

[jw1739]

 

I understand teams/The FFA don't always own these stadiums (do any A-League teams own their own?) and can therefore not monopolize the use of them but there needs to be a level of respect towards our sport when these events are planned. The event in Newcastle changed the complexity of an A-League match on Saturday, can anything be done about it though? Probably not.

 

No, all are owned and operated by some level of government.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_A-League_stadiums

[Kiro Kompiro]

 

 

I really do believe the state of the pitch dictated the style of football played.

 

The home team was quite happy to play a long ball game and fight for the scraps. It doesn't suit the Heart from what I have seen of them this last 6 weeks or so.

 

Personally I would have dropped Engelaar into a deeper position after 30 minutes and see if he could have controlled the game from there.

This is the sort of thing that is going to happen in the FFA Cup, and the A-League teams are going to have to cope with it.

 

 

Too true, but circumstances like having a Sprinsteen concert or a Motocross event (apparently what caused the damage in Newcastle) are appalling in my opinion. That's different than simply travelling to a semi-professional team who simply don't have the cash to maintain their pitch to an A-League level.

 

I understand teams/The FFA don't always own these stadiums (do any A-League teams own their own?) and can therefore not monopolize the use of them but there needs to be a level of respect towards our sport when these events are planned. The event in Newcastle changed the complexity of an A-League match on Saturday, can anything be done about it though? Probably not.

 

 

 

A-League has always been disrespected by the stadium owners.

 

 Even when Victory was averaging bigger crowds than some AFL club at Etihad they had to play in horse paddock surfaces.  Muscat as much as I hate him,gave Etihad management a spray about the state of the pitch, and AFAIR he did actually use the words "disrespectful to the game".  It was no surprise that they had Kemp, Thompson and Celeski sustain ACL injuries at Etihad.