Start planning for 2016-17 now

[jw1739]

If Davutovic is right and Murf and I are wrong, then I for one will be disappointed, because it's going to make it harder for the new owners and coach to make the changes necessary to make us competitive. We will have only three visa places available; I certainly don't see Kalmar holding a first-team place at any other A-League club; like others IMO there are big questions over Germano (mainly physical), and I also don't think Wielaert is worth a visa place because he is short on pace.

 

We need to add quality all over the park to be top four next season.

[jw1739]

Is it usual in the A-League for teams to be staffed by players with such short-deals?

 

 

 

Is it usual in the A-League for teams to be staffed by players with such short-deals?

yeah, also a lot of squad changes at the end of each season. Just the nature of the league with any good young players going overseas or good senior players being poached by Asian teams. Add to that that some of the good Aussie players coming back are old. It's hard to build a team that will stay together for a while. This is where things might change for us. Better young internationals that will be at the club for a while, and young players that might stay on one or two years longer because they are getting better coaching and in their interests.

 

Also IMO because we have that cap on numbers (23), so clubs try to avoid signing someone for a longer term who might not be up to it for more than one season. The term often used for such players is "list-cloggers." We've had a number of them.

 

Clubs either have to carry list-cloggers through to the end of their contracts, come to release terms with them, or find them a gig somewhere else - usually in a lesser league in Asia.

 

The idea of the numbers cap is of course to stop the wealthier clubs from signing a player not because they particularly want them but rather so they can't play for another club. Which, Falastur, you would know occurs with some of the top European clubs!

 

One thing A-League clubs sometimes do is leave one or two places in the 23 unfilled so that they can perhaps pick up a player during the season. With a full list, as Heart had before Macallister and Golgol departed, that is not possible unless the club "engineers" a departure.

Edited February 3, 2014 by jw1739

[marteaux]

How did Georgios Samaras enjoy his time at City?

Pretty sure he's out of contract at seasons end and eligible to be Australian Marquee. If so should be number 1 target, before Jesus Kennedy!

As a Celtic supporter I can assure you that Kennedy would def score more goals than Samaras... but obv I would be happy with either player. But Samaras can also play on the wing or behind the striker, no?He can also play on the wing, but lets just say watching Samaras from afar and watching him play for your side are two very different things. How so?

He is the single most frustrating player I have ever seen in any sport. Shows incredible talent when he feels like it, which is about 30% of the time. .

already have gol gol for that

This: Samaras is the World Game's version of those sterotypical inconsistent livewire fowards in AFL...

Richard Osborne, Clive Waterhouse, Ronnie Burns, etc. haha, richard osborne's son was my best mate in primary school.

very excited to see who the club signs as an aussie marquee. i'd love Kennedy but seems unlikely with City's attacking style.

would take Holman or McDonald either, with a european attacking midfielder alongside Mooy.

Edited February 3, 2014 by marteaux

[Rellum]

If Davutovic is right and Murf and I are wrong, then I for one will be disappointed, because it's going to make it harder for the new owners and coach to make the changes necessary to make us competitive. We will have only three visa places available; I certainly don't see Kalmar holding a first-team place at any other A-League club; like others IMO there are big questions over Germano (mainly physical), and I also don't think Wielaert is worth a visa place because he is short on pace.

 

We need to add quality all over the park to be top four next season.

The new owners can always pay out a contract if they want to move a contracted player on, or even sell then overseas if they can find a club the player and said would be willing to have that player move too.

[Alexxandro]

 

If Davutovic is right and Murf and I are wrong, then I for one will be disappointed, because it's going to make it harder for the new owners and coach to make the changes necessary to make us competitive. We will have only three visa places available; I certainly don't see Kalmar holding a first-team place at any other A-League club; like others IMO there are big questions over Germano (mainly physical), and I also don't think Wielaert is worth a visa place because he is short on pace.

 

We need to add quality all over the park to be top four next season.

The new owners can always pay out a contract if they want to move a contracted player on, or even sell then overseas if they can find a club the player and said would be willing to have that player move too.

 

Bingo. 

[Murfy1]

 

Wielaert's contract is definitely only for this season, with the official club statement saying we only signed him 'for the upcoming A-League season' (http://www.footballaustralia.com.au/news-display/heart-sign-dutch-defender/68848).

That's not explicit, it's just a general piece of writing to says he's signed on for this season. No time frame on length of stay, etc.

 

I agree, it doesn't explicitly say Wielaert was only signed up for 1 season. Melbourne Heart seem to try and be as tight-lipped and as vague about player contracts as possible, so it's hard to know what's going on.

 

It will be interesting to see if Man City try to pay out contracts for any Heart players contracted beyond this season. If they tried to, I reckon some players might stubbornly want to stick around, like Bru at Victory.

[Murfy1]

I think I'd be fine keeping Redmayne, Wielaert, Ramsay, Murdocca, Germano, Garuccio, Mauk, Kalmar and Mate for next season.

 

I think Wielaert is an excellent player, who's maybe the best passing defender in the A-League, and he's a real boss and organiser in our back third. If he's paired with a more athletic central defender, I think he could be an asset for next season (assuming he keeps up good form).

 

As I said in the Germano thread, especially if he could get Aus citizenship in the season after next (2015-16), I'd be open to keeping him.

 

Kalmar is something of a sentimental choice. I'd like to keep 1 foundation player for next season, but also I do think he has a lot of good qualities. The fact is, not every one of our 23 players can regularly be one of the starting XI, and Kalmar is a fine squad player. If Kalmar can't thrive or show enough by next season, I'm fine for the club to release him after that.

 

We already have 2 (Aussie) spots free, and I reckon Velaphi, Hoffman, Williams, Mitchinson, Behich, Gerhardt and Mifsud will/should go, so that's 7 Australian spots and 2 VISA spots (3 if Engelaar goes), including the international marquee deal (if Engelaar stays he'll be under the cap) and the Australian marquee deal.

I reckon that's enough spots to remake the team. You could change most of the starting XI if it was desired.

 

It should be remembered as well that there's only so many Australian footballers out there who's contracts finish this year. So we're going to have to keep at least some players, as it would be foolish to try and sign 20 or 23 players in the off-season.

Edited February 3, 2014 by Murfy1

[NewConvert]

I think I'd be fine keeping Redmayne, Wielaert, Ramsay, Murdocca, Germano, Garuccio, Mauk, Kalmar and Mate for next season.

 

I think Wielaert is an excellent player, who's maybe the best passing defender in the A-League, and he's a real boss and organiser in our back third. If he's paired with a more athletic central defender, I think he could be an asset for next season (assuming he keeps up good form).

 

As I said in the Germano thread, especially if he could get Aus citizenship in the season after next (2015-16), I'd be open to keeping him.

 

Kalmar is something of a sentimental choice. I'd like to keep 1 foundation player for next season, but also I do think he has a lot of good qualities. The fact is, not every one of our 23 players can regularly be one of the starting XI, and Kalmar is a fine squad player. If Kalmar can't thrive or show enough by next season, I'm fine for the club to release him after that.

 

We already have 2 (Aussie) spots free, and I reckon Velaphi, Hoffman, Williams, Mitchinson, Behich, Gerhardt and Mifsud will/should go, so that's 7 Australian spots and 2 VISA spots (3 if Engelaar goes), including the international marquee deal (if Engelaar stays he'll be under the cap) and the Australian marquee deal.

I reckon that's enough spots to remake the team. You could change most of the starting XI if it was desired.

 

It should be remembered as well that there's only so many Australian footballers out there who's contracts finish this year. So we're going to have to keep at least some players, as it would be foolish to try and sign 20 or 23 players in the off-season.

 

Of the internationals for me the must go has to be Mifsud, the rest we can keep but Gerhardt and Kisnorbo are competing for the same spot so not sure. Wieleart has improved in the last three weeks, probably because the defense isn't so much under attack and the midfield is working now. Engelaar I am torn over since we have seen so little of him but what I have seen is good. Germano is also a maybe, good when he plays which is not often.

As for Kalmar well I lost patience with him. He has had two really good games a couple of average games and the rest not good enough. I wonder if there are some youth league players ready to take a step up and be promoted to the senior contract. I note that Heart has a lot of young players on its senuior list but rarely are they getting even to the bench.

Of course a lot will depend on who the coach will be andhow they see a team playing. It may also be that JvS be preparing a list of players to keep and develop, and the type of players that the team needs just in case he gets the nod or the new admin asks for his opinion.

[jw1739]

Sorry, I can't agree with the the philosophies of keeping players on sentimental grounds, or players who are "if", "perhaps", "may be", "might be", and so on and so forth. This is simply allowing for and even expecting mediocrity, and I have had enough of that.

 

Now is the best time to reshape, balance, and greatly improve the squad, where every player is worthy of a regular place and fighting for it.

 

We will never challenge for honours in the league, cup, or in Asia if we don't change this fundamental attitude problem we have had up to now. 

[Jestr]

Sorry, I can't agree with the the philosophies of keeping players on sentimental grounds, or players who are "if", "perhaps", "may be", "might be", and so on and so forth. This is simply allowing for and even expecting mediocrity, and I have had enough of that.

Now is the best time to reshape, balance, and greatly improve the squad, where every player is worthy of a regular place and fighting for it.

We will never challenge for honours in the league, cup, or in Asia if we don't change this fundamental attitude problem we have had up to now.

Agree with the general sentiment here.

Only problem is salary cap will always force you to have certain percentage of the squad that one may consider just ok (so so)

Great Coaching will turn those into well performing team players.

Just look what popovic has done with, IMO mainly very average players.

Even roar has few players I'd consider as just fine but nothing special

Stil,l bar has to be rised during recruitment time

No doubt

[cadete]

Sorry, I can't agree with the the philosophies of keeping players on sentimental grounds, or players who are "if", "perhaps", "may be", "might be", and so on and so forth. This is simply allowing for and even expecting mediocrity, and I have had enough of that.

 

Now is the best time to reshape, balance, and greatly improve the squad, where every player is worthy of a regular place and fighting for it.

 

We will never challenge for honours in the league, cup, or in Asia if we don't change this fundamental attitude problem we have had up to now. 

This,

 

Time has to be up for Kalmar - Its been almost four seasons now and his nowhere closer to securing a spot in a struggling side.

[belaguttman]

We also need to stop thinking just about individual players and start thinking about the team and the role of each player in the team. Roar and CCM and WSW have some excellent players and some pretty average ones, but each player knows their specific role, how it fits into the team style and tactics and they perform their own role pretty well. That creates a champion team from average players. This is our template, we can't afford a Galacticos approach with the salary cap. It does help to have a player to 2 that are game changers (ADP, Hernandez. Broich) but their impact is limited in a limited team.

[Embee]

 

 

Wielaert's contract is definitely only for this season, with the official club statement saying we only signed him 'for the upcoming A-League season' (http://www.footballaustralia.com.au/news-display/heart-sign-dutch-defender/68848).

That's not explicit, it's just a general piece of writing to says he's signed on for this season. No time frame on length of stay, etc.

 

I agree, it doesn't explicitly say Wielaert was only signed up for 1 season. Melbourne Heart seem to try and be as tight-lipped and as vague about player contracts as possible, so it's hard to know what's going on.

 

It will be interesting to see if Man City try to pay out contracts for any Heart players contracted beyond this season. If they tried to, I reckon some players might stubbornly want to stick around, like Bru at Victory.

 

 

If they're paying out the full value of the contract I don't think the player actually has a choice.

 

I think Bru's situation was a case of the club trying to get him to meet them halfway and him refusing to any sort of mutual agreement.

Edited February 4, 2014 by King Malta

[Torn Asunder]

I would be surprised if we kept any of our internationals.  I think the new owners will be keen to bring in a full compliment of new young foreign players, who they have found using their network of scouts, and to give these guys an opportunity to show their wares within the A-League.

 

I think they will hang onto most of our young Australian players, at least until they get a chance overseas at the Manchester Acadamy in the UK.  With this type of opportunity, who knows how much improvement we will see in guys like Walker, Garrucio and Vrankovic, and even Kalmar.

 

I also look forward to seeing who our foreign, Australian and youth marquee will be, as I reckon they will spend and spend well on these positions.

[Murfy1]

 

Sorry, I can't agree with the the philosophies of keeping players on sentimental grounds, or players who are "if", "perhaps", "may be", "might be", and so on and so forth. This is simply allowing for and even expecting mediocrity, and I have had enough of that.

Now is the best time to reshape, balance, and greatly improve the squad, where every player is worthy of a regular place and fighting for it.

We will never challenge for honours in the league, cup, or in Asia if we don't change this fundamental attitude problem we have had up to now.

Only problem is salary cap will always force you to have certain percentage of the squad that one may consider just ok (so so)

Great Coaching will turn those into well performing team players.

Just look what popovic has done with, IMO mainly very average players.

Even roar has few players I'd consider as just fine but nothing special

Stil,l bar has to be rised during recruitment time

No doubt

 

 

This is pretty much what I meant to say. We can't have a squad full of Australian players as good as Aaron Mooy, if only because there aren't that many good Australian players available this year.

 

I also fully agree about the importance of the head coach and the whole football situation at any given club (the training facilities, the entire coaching staff, the pre-seasons etc.). As WSW shows, in the right context pretty ordinary players (and WSW has many ordinary players) can become very good.

 

Nonetheless, I expect our recruitment for next season to far exceed anything seen at Heart, and probably anything seen at an A-League club before.

[MaliMate]

I would be surprised if we kept any of our internationals. I think the new owners will be keen to bring in a full compliment of new young foreign players, who they have found using their network of scouts, and to give these guys an opportunity to show their wares within the A-League.

I think they will hang onto most of our young Australian players, at least until they get a chance overseas at the Manchester Acadamy in the UK. With this type of opportunity, who knows how much improvement we will see in guys like Walker, Garrucio and Vrankovic, and even Kalmar.

I also look forward to seeing who our foreign, Australian and youth marquee will be, as I reckon they will spend and spend well on these positions.

I too hope we take this route although as I've stated earlier I really think keeping Germano until he gains citizenship would be worthwhile. He's better than most Aussies lets be honest. You can harp on about his injuries all you like but I still feel he was frozen out by JA and not utilized effectively.

[Murfy1]

I'm pretty curious, who do people want to be our goalkeeper, our right-back, our left-back, our centre-backs and our striker/s for next season? When you start to look at it, 5 VISA spots isn't many. And especially in the positions I mentioned before, I think there are very few good Australian players available.

 

Here's a long list of Australian players that might be available for next season:

 

AUSSIE MARQUEES

- Scott McDonald (June 2015)

- Josh Kennedy (?)

- Mark Bresciano (?)

AUSSIES

- Aaron Mooy (June 2014)

- Jason Davidson (June 2014)

- Erik Paartalu (Dec 2014)

- Nathan Burns (?)

- Matthew Spiranovic (June 2014)

- Zach Anderson (June 2014)

- Chris Herd (June 2014)

- Daniel Georgievski (June 2014)

- Ryan McGowan (Dec 2014)

- Richard Porta (June 2014)

- Shane Lowry (June 2014)

- Carl Valeri (June 2014)

- James Wesolowski (June 2014)

- Travis Cooper (June 2014)

 

Even though the marquee Australians above aren't coming out of contract soon, we should be able to secure 1 if we pay enough (also, McDonald seems to wantaway from Milwall).

 

I don't think there's any good Australian goalkeepers coming out of contract, so I hope Redmayne proves he's good enough for next season. Mark Schwarzer is maybe the most interesting option, and perhaps he'd make a solid 2nd GK (who could also mentor Redmayne), otherwise no names come to mind.

 

Right-back is really tough as well, especially now that Marrone's signed up with Adelaide for next season. Daniel Georgievski is a 25 year old Australian Macedonian (17 caps for the Macedonian NT) who currently plays at Steaua Bucuresti, and is probably best and just about only RB available for next season.

 

I hope we get Jason Davidson for left-back. He's out of contract at the end of June and he'd be excellent IMO. Not many else besides though.

 

Very undecided on what we should do regarding our CBs. I think we should have 1 experienced CB who can be a leader, so maybe Wielaert, Kisnorbo or maybe we could get Adrian Madaschi. And then maybe Spiranovic or McGowan alongside.

 

I'd be pleased if the club tried hard to get Scott McDonald as our Aussie marquee. He's only 30, so he could give us multiple good seasons. Besides Kennedy, are there any other good options for striker/s?

 

If transfer fees count towards the salary cap, that will make a large rebuild of the squad very difficult, and it means we would probably miss out of a number of quality players like McGowan, who we can't afford to make our Aussie marquee (who's transfer fees wouldn't count towards the cap, so we could pay as much as we want).

 

 

So I hope we hold on to the likes of Dugandzic, Mauk, Garuccio and Murdocca and maybe some others, because I just don't think there's enough good Australians out there to fill every position, and especially in a few positions like goalkeeper, unless we use up a VISA spot then I'm not sure we can actually do much better than Redmayne.

Edited February 4, 2014 by Murfy1

[Kiro Kompiro]

 

 

 

Wielaert's contract is definitely only for this season, with the official club statement saying we only signed him 'for the upcoming A-League season' (http://www.footballaustralia.com.au/news-display/heart-sign-dutch-defender/68848).

That's not explicit, it's just a general piece of writing to says he's signed on for this season. No time frame on length of stay, etc.

 

I agree, it doesn't explicitly say Wielaert was only signed up for 1 season. Melbourne Heart seem to try and be as tight-lipped and as vague about player contracts as possible, so it's hard to know what's going on.

 

It will be interesting to see if Man City try to pay out contracts for any Heart players contracted beyond this season. If they tried to, I reckon some players might stubbornly want to stick around, like Bru at Victory.

 

 

If they're paying out the full value of the contract I don't think the player actually has a choice.

 

I think Bru's situation was a case of the club trying to get him to meet them halfway and him refusing to any sort of mutual agreement.

 

 

My understanding is that you cannot simply pay out a player as this money still counts towards the salary cap.

 

The only way that could work out is if by mutual agreement the contract is terminated, and whatever was left on the contract can then be spent on a replacement. MV did this with Allsop, at least.

[jw1739]

Murf, transfer fees are not connected to the salary cap at all.

[Murfy1]

Murf, transfer fees are not connected to the salary cap at all.

 

Thanks for that. I was trying to remember instances of A-League clubs paying transfer fees, and I really couldn't think of any examples, so that's why I wondered if there were restrictions (like including those fees in the cap).

 

The A-League currently is full of selling clubs, with no clubs that seriously work to buy players (apart from the odd marquee, all players really come to the A-League through Bosman moves). If Heart starts paying transfer fees for players, that alone could be the biggest change that Many City could bring to Australian football, making clubs look much more widely for talent, and not just focusing on the smaller pool of players that can be got on a Bosman.

 

Nonetheless, I still believe there is a limited amount of good Australian players out there, and it won't be a walk in the park to find a good player for every position (yet alone 2 good players for every position).

Edited February 4, 2014 by Murfy1

[alexli]

 

I'm pretty curious, who do people want to be our goalkeeper, our right-back, our left-back, our centre-backs and our striker/s for next season? When you start to look at it, 5 VISA spots isn't many. And especially in the positions I mentioned before, I think there are very few good Australian players available.

 

Here's a long list of Australian players that might be available for next season:

 

AUSSIE MARQUEES

- Scott McDonald (June 2015)

- Josh Kennedy (?)

- Mark Bresciano (?)

AUSSIES

- Aaron Mooy (June 2014)

- Jason Davidson (June 2014)

- Erik Paartalu (Dec 2014)

- Nathan Burns (?)

- Matthew Spiranovic (June 2014)

- Zach Anderson (June 2014)

- Chris Herd (June 2014)

- Daniel Georgievski (June 2014)

- Ryan McGowan (Dec 2014)

- Richard Porta (June 2014)

- Shane Lowry (June 2014)

- Carl Valeri (June 2014)

- James Wesolowski (June 2014)

- Travis Cooper (June 2014)

 

Even though the marquee Australians above aren't coming out of contract soon, we should be able to secure 1 if we pay enough (also, McDonald seems to wantaway from Milwall).

 

I don't think there's any good Australian goalkeepers coming out of contract, so I hope Redmayne proves he's good enough for next season. Mark Schwarzer is maybe the most interesting option, and perhaps he'd make a solid 2nd GK (who could also mentor Redmayne), otherwise no names come to mind.

 

Right-back is really tough as well, especially now that Marrone's signed up with Adelaide for next season. Daniel Georgievski is a 25 year old Australian Macedonian (17 caps for the Macedonian NT) who currently plays at Steaua Bucuresti, and is probably best and just about only RB available for next season.

 

I hope we get Jason Davidson for left-back. He's out of contract at the end of June and he'd be excellent IMO. Not many else besides though.

 

Very undecided on what we should do regarding our CBs. I think we should have 1 experienced CB who can be a leader, so maybe Wielaert, Kisnorbo or maybe we could get Adrian Madaschi. And then maybe Spiranovic or McGowan alongside.

 

I'd be pleased if the club tried hard to get Scott McDonald as our Aussie marquee. He's only 30, so he could give us multiple good seasons. Besides Kennedy, are there any other good options for striker/s?

 

If transfer fees count towards the salary cap, that will make a large rebuild of the squad very difficult, and it means we would probably miss out of a number of quality players like McGowan, who we can't afford to make our Aussie marquee (who's transfer fees wouldn't count towards the cap, so we could pay as much as we want).

 

 

So I hope we hold on to the likes of Dugandzic, Mauk, Garuccio and Murdocca and maybe some others, because I just don't think there's enough good Australians out there to fill every position, and especially in a few positions like goalkeeper, unless we use up a VISA spot then I'm not sure we can actually do much better than Redmayne.

 

I don't think transfer fee would count in salary cap.

Would love to see Paddy K and Ryan McGowan as our central defenders. Could be a very solid defence there, but I don't think we could have him from season start as Shandong eyes him an important part of the squad as all other visa players in the club are attackers like Vagner Love and Walter Montillo.

[Dylan]

I think that transferre fees not being within the cap are the reason Sydney are able to keep signing players

[Murfy1]

It's going to be interesting. I expect Man City will bring at least a few players to Heart who everyone thought were settled at their respective clubs and were not going to move. Aaron Mooy already is pretty much an example. On the face of it, why would he move when he's made such a name for himself at WSW? But hint after hint seems to suggest we'll see Mooy in Red and White next season.

 

Very keen to see their recruitment plans unfold in the off-season, as I'm pretty stumped as to what Australian players they can bring in to rebuild the team.

[Shahanga]

I have put a fair bit of thought into considering a squad for next year.  When you put your head into it you start to see the challenges for clubs.  To sign 23 that are good enough to start in a team that can win the league, you are going to blow the salary cap out of the water.

 

There are definitely enough good Aussies around that you don't need too many foreigners within the cap IF YOU CAN SIGN THE ONES YOU WANT, which you most probably can't, hence the need for foreigners within the cap.

 

A sensible strategy would seem to be a strong spine, then as much quality as you can to about 14 players, then a few cheaper up and comers or second chancers and some kids who look like rising stars.  Guys like Kewell who could command a lot more money but are (seemingly) "doing it to put something back" (or whatever) and will play for low wages are worth their weight in gold. 

 

BTW I think Kalmar has to go, replace him with a kid.  Sorry Nicky, its not personal.

[malloy]

Is there anything stopping a team paying a large signing on fee to a player and then paying them peanuts during the season to keep them under the cap?

[Tesla]

Is there anything stopping a team paying a large signing on fee to a player and then paying them peanuts during the season to keep them under the cap?

Wouldnt surprise me if signing on fee is divided up amongst the amount of years the contract is for and added to the salary.

[Shahanga]

Is there anything stopping a team paying a large signing on fee to a player and then paying them peanuts during the season to keep them under the cap?

The player's bank balance needs/wants/desires!

 

Transfer fee goes to the club.  Salary goes to the player.  You need a favourite son coming home to help out who has already got more money than he can count.

Maybe an ex-Bulleen junior might be interested?   

[malloy]

 

Is there anything stopping a team paying a large signing on fee to a player and then paying them peanuts during the season to keep them under the cap?

The player's bank balance needs/wants/desires!

 

Transfer fee goes to the club.  Salary goes to the player.  You need a favourite son coming home to help out who has already got more money than he can count.

Maybe an ex-Bulleen junior might be interested?   

 

 

 

Did you even read what I wrote? I said nothing about a transfer fee. It is not uncommon for free agent players to be paid a signing on fee. 

 

The player would still get the same amount of cash, a lump sum up front as a signing on fee and then small wages during the contract.... 

[Dylan]

Is there anything stopping a team paying a large signing on fee to a player and then paying them peanuts during the season to keep them under the cap?

The player's bank balance needs/wants/desires!

Transfer fee goes to the club. Salary goes to the player. You need a favourite son coming home to help out who has already got more money than he can count.

Maybe an ex-Bulleen junior might be interested?

Did you even read what I wrote? I said nothing about a transfer fee. It is not uncommon for free agent players to be paid a signing on fee.

The player would still get the same amount of cash, a lump sum up front as a signing on fee and then small wages during the contract....

This has to be what Sydney does

[Shahanga]

 

 

Is there anything stopping a team paying a large signing on fee to a player and then paying them peanuts during the season to keep them under the cap?

The player's bank balance needs/wants/desires!

 

Transfer fee goes to the club.  Salary goes to the player.  You need a favourite son coming home to help out who has already got more money than he can count.

Maybe an ex-Bulleen junior might be interested?   

 

 

 

Did you even read what I wrote? I said nothing about a transfer fee. It is not uncommon for free agent players to be paid a signing on fee. 

 

The player would still get the same amount of cash, a lump sum up front as a signing on fee and then small wages during the contract.... 

 

Clearly no. (apologises).

 

AFL do this kind of thing i think?

Might be worth looking at- OK the FFA would probably ban it after it happened, but that would only stop someone else doing it!

Edited February 4, 2014 by Shahanga

[jw1739]

A club probably has to submit its accounts to FFA to keep its licence? Not sure how FFA would view "signing-on" payments, or non-salary extras such as house, school fees, cars, etc. etc. And I'm sure it's impossible to stop third-party deals, such as payments from sponsors.

 

Pretty clear that Sydney and Geelong Victory are doing plenty of creative accounting.

[mus-28]

The only way I could see around the cap is with marquees. By loading the first year of the players contract and then moving them to within the cap for the following years of their contract. E.g Paying Bresciano 700k in season 1, then 200k in season 2, allowing the club to sign Kennedy as Australian marquee the following year. Would be a lot harder to do with foreign players I'd assume as we'd be looking at genuine marquee quality who would expect a hefty amount that would be taxed substantially if you tried to load it up in the 1st year.

[Defibrillator]

The only way I could see around the cap is with marquees. By loading the first year of the players contract and then moving them to within the cap for the following years of their contract. E.g Paying Bresciano 700k in season 1, then 200k in season 2, allowing the club to sign Kennedy as Australian marquee the following year. Would be a lot harder to do with foreign players I'd assume as we'd be looking at genuine marquee quality who would expect a hefty amount that would be taxed substantially if you tried to load it up in the 1st year.

What's to stop Man City buying up all the best junior talent in Australia, putting them on the Manchester payroll on good money, and then loaning them back to us for a pittance?? As mentioned previously, Aziz Behich is apparently having his wages paid for by his Turkish team and he doesn't count as a foreign player. Surely City could splash the cash and then be creative? Don't forget, City are in a powerful position. If the FFA make life too difficult, they can easily withdraw their support and leave - something the FFA would desperately try to avoid from a reputational and financial point of view.

Another possibility is paying huge agent's fees or 3rd party fees for a player (which are held in trust by the agent until they leave or retire) and the player's wages capped whilst still active with the club. Barcelona seem to be good at this!!

I'm watching with interest how this will pan out.

Edited February 4, 2014 by Defibrillator

[Rellum]

Gallop is already aware of the loan loop hole and I am sure that will be closed.

 

One other way around the cap is City could sign a players in Brazil for example. Loan them back to the hypothetical Brazilian club, pay the player most of their contract in the first season then loan them to us in the second season.

[MaliMate]

Loan them back to the hypothetical Brazilian club, pay the player most of their contract in the first season then loan them to us in the second season.

Surely this would work.

[belaguttman]

Why would we want to rort the salary cap? Let's just recruit astutely.

[NewConvert]

Why would we want to rort the salary cap? Let's just recruit astutely.

 

Agree. Rorting the cap does not help to achieve what MCFC want to achieve in the East Asia/Australia market as it could tarnish the brand.

[M13]

If it was just about MCFC... But as we know all three teams are owned by CFG Ltd who in turn got a single shareholder (Sheikh Mansour) but act as a marketing vehicle for several Emirati stakeholders as well.
So acting in a way that makes a major stakeholder like say Etihad Airways look bad is simply out of the question even if it might be advantageous to MCFC itself..

[jw1739]

Gallop is already aware of the loan loop hole and I am sure that will be closed.

 

One other way around the cap is City could sign a players in Brazil for example. Loan them back to the hypothetical Brazilian club, pay the player most of their contract in the first season then loan them to us in the second season.

But Gallop also needs to recognise that the earth is moving under his feet and that he's part of a global game and market.

 

The entry of big international stakeholders into the A-League means that deregulation is inevitable.

[Tommykins]

 

Gallop is already aware of the loan loop hole and I am sure that will be closed.

 

One other way around the cap is City could sign a players in Brazil for example. Loan them back to the hypothetical Brazilian club, pay the player most of their contract in the first season then loan them to us in the second season.

But Gallop also needs to recognise that the earth is moving under his feet and that he's part of a global game and market.

 

The entry of big international stakeholders into the A-League means that deregulation is inevitable.

 

 

If there was more then one, then deregulation would be on the horizon, its likely that initially it will have the opposite effect as the FFA tries to keep the competition as equal as possible.