Fentonthescreamingcactus Posted October 3, 2014 Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 why dont we play a 3-4-3 with a back three of wielart/chapman,hoff/archibald and kisnorbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murfy1 Posted October 3, 2014 Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 (edited) Very good preview: Melbourne City 2014-15 season preview: a new look club, but a familiar team Tim Palmer October 2, 2014 Although there’s been much off-field overhaul at Melbourne City (formerly Heart), on the pitch John Van’t Schip has retained a semblance of consistency. City’s preferred 4-3-3 is more or less the same as the system he implemented after taking over from John Aloisi at the start of the year. Although there’s been much change in personnel, the dynamic of the side will be very familiar. In terms of style, Van’t Schip is flexible, happy to switch between a possession-based system and a more direct, counter-attacking style. That was evident at the tail end of last season, where the Heart had 51% possession against Wellington Phoenix, then just 37% the following week verus Brisbane. They also combined technical and physical aspects, mixing careful ball retention with sheer brute force – the strength and power of the enormous Orlando Engelaar was crucial in this aspect. With his departure, and the arrival of smaller, more technical players, the Heart will probably be more possession-based this season. That has been the case in pre-season and there’s been an obvious focus on playing out from the back, using the width and depth of the pitch to stretch opponents and create space to build attacks. While we often talk about centre-backs ‘splitting’ the penalty box to make the field as wide as possible (which City do), Van’t Schip also asks his front three to sit very high up, as this pushes defences back and again, makes the field as large as possible. Therefore, the side can feel very spread out when in the ‘reset’ position (playing out from a goal-kick or when the centre-backs have possession), which can cause problems if mistakes are made out when playing out – naturally, the further apart players are with the ball, the more distance they have to cover to be compact defensively. Nevertheless, City will persist with this positive approach, pushing the full-backs very high up when in possession. Jason Hoffman and Iain Ramsay, right and left respectively, are probably the weakest players in the side, but perform an important role providing attacking width by constantly driving up and down the touchline. Ramsay, a converted forward, is particularly energetic, and gets forward with at-times reckless ambition. The counter-effect of this, of course, is that City look vulnerable on the counter-attack, especially in wide areas. The centre-backs (Rob Wielaert and Patrick Kisnorbo) will move out to cover in the channels but often dive in, and a lack of discipline is a worrying concern. With the ball, Kisnorbo’s very positive. He is happy to carry it forward and hits long, forward balls into the final third. Another consideration is Van’t Schip’s previous inclination to switch between a back three and four in his first spell at Melbourne City. He prescribes to the Bielsa ‘spare man’ principle – so a back four against one striker, a back three against two – and often switched between the two shapes accordingly. Back in February, he switched to a back three against Sydney FC, freeing up the wing-backs to charge forward into space, but still keeping a 3v2 advantage at the back against Sydney’s front two. Van’t Schip’s flexibility isn’t limited to his defence either, and in fact when first taking over from Aloisi he used a 4-4-2 diamond. It was an unorthodox diamond, however, in the sense that it became a flat 4-4-2 defensively with the right-hand striker, Mate Dugdanzic, dropping back into a deep right-midfield position to create a second bank of four. This freed up the no.10, Harry Kewell, from defensive responsibility. Such a complex, fluid system demonstrates Van’t Schip’s adaptability, and we can expect more of the same this season. However, the 4-3-3 seems to firmly be his ‘base’ formation, with the powerful midfield trio capable of out-passing most sides in the competition. At the base is Erik Paartalu, a tall, domineering holding midfielder who will play a very disciplined role in front of the back four, dropping in between the centre-backs and allowing the full-backs forward. He was excellent in this role for Ange Postecoglou’s Brisbane and if he returns to the form from their Championship winning seasons, he will be this City’s side keystone. As Van’t Schip put it simply, “the way he played at Brisbane will be his role here too”. Paartalu’s signing seems to pushed fellow new arrival Aaron Mooy into a slightly more advanced position. Mooy played most of pre-season as the #6, demonstrated his superb range of long passing (perhaps the best in the league) but never seemed entirely comfortable defensively, often being tempted forward and leaving too much space in front of the centre-backs. Instead, he should have more freedom in a slightly more advanced position to the right of Paartalu, helping the side retain possession, and facilitating counter-attacks with sweeping diagonals. To his left is surprise marquee Robert Koren. The Slovenian has had a long, successful career between the various levels of English football, and brings lots of experience and leadership to the side. Playing as the most advanced midfielder in a 4-3-3 is his ‘token’ role. It’s where Steve Bruce used him at Hull City, because in Bruce’s own words Koren nowadays lacks the mobility to adequately defend in a two-man midfield, and also where he played for West Brom and Slovenia at the 2010 World Cup. The cover of three midfielders in the 4-3-3 allows Koren to make lots of late runs into the penalty box – his trademark move, and one which saw him finish as Hull’s top scorer in the 2012-13 Championship (with nine). Koren will play a similar role in this City side – effectively given the same freedom as Engelaar, and roaming down that left channel to make clever, darting forward runs. He’s not as physically imposing as the Dutchman, but is technically sound and is better suited to the more possession-based style this season. This appears to be the favoured midfield trio and is very fluid, with the players happy to rotate through each position to find space. This will probably be less common with Paartalu happy to anchor at the base, but Mooy and Koren are happy to swap sides and drag defenders out of position. City have lots of options in the midfield zone. Nick Kalmar is a favourite of Van’t Schip’s and can play that #6 role, as can Jonaton Germano, who can be a ‘solid’ holding player like Paartalu. Massimo Murdocca brings lots of energy and is useful when pressing high up the pitch, and will battle for Mooy for a starting spot. Meanwhile, youngsters Paolo Retre, Stefan Mauk and Ben Garuccio will also get opportunities. Further forward, the two wide players either side of the central striker have switched flanks incessantly throughout pre-season, so much so at times it’s been impossible to designate players to a certain side. Nevertheless, it’s generally Damien Duff on the left, and either David Williams or Mate Dugdanzic on the right. While the latter tend to be more direct and power towards goals themselves, Duff constantly whips in dangerous crosses from the by-line. His ability to drop the shoulder to get half a yard on a defender is excellent and he will provide lots of creativity from either flank. There’s a valid question about whether a cross-based attack suits David Villa, though. The Spanish striker, a genuine great of the modern game, can challenge in the air but is more comfortable running onto passes in behind, even though his pace has decreased with age. Villa’s movement off the shoulder is tremendous and not only will he create his own space to receive through balls, he’ll also drag defenders out of position by drifting wide and making diagonal runs towards the channels. Clearly, he’s not at his peak, but his pedigree is that he’s probably in better condition than Alessandro Del Piero, and may well prove to be the league’s best ever player even in his short stint. The trouble with Villa, of course, is that his loan spell is just ten games, meaning Van’t Schip will have to find alternatives upfront at the turn of the new year. In pre-season David Williams has been used upfront. He drops quite deep in that role, but is also capable of sprinting in behind. Marc Marino is a promising youngster, but is raw. City’s lack of striking options beyond Villa is probably their biggest weakness. Across the rest of the squad, though, there’s encouraging depth. Connor Chapman will challenge Kisnorbo and Wielaert at the back, while James Brown has had a disappointing couple of seasons but can play from either flank and can play clever passes. In goals, Tando Velaphi and Andrew Redmayne have a healthy rivalry, but both can make baffling errors of judgement, and this is another clear area of weakness (relative to the strengths elsewhere in the side). It’s undeniable the core of the side has improved as a whole, but it feels like there are too many flaws in this side for them to be genuine challengers this season. http://www.australiascout.com/2014/melbourne-city-season-preview/ Edited October 3, 2014 by Murfy1 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loriente Posted October 3, 2014 Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 (edited) 'Dugdanzic' Article is spot on though. Edited October 3, 2014 by loriente Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonyboozeadams Posted October 3, 2014 Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 Yeah, great article Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marteaux Posted October 3, 2014 Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 Good article Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murfy1 Posted October 3, 2014 Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 (edited) Photo gallery of training: http://www.fourfourtwo.com/au/features/pics-melbourne-city-training Edited October 3, 2014 by Murfy1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulhollanddrive Posted October 3, 2014 Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 I'm a fan of 3 CBs and wingbacks with our line. ----------------------Redmayne -----------Chapman Kisnorbo Wielaert Hoffman -------------------------------- Ramsey ----------------------Paartalu ------------Mooy----------------Duff ----------------------Koren -----------------------Villa Put arrows on our FBs. We cover our weaknesses with extra CB, play to our FB running strength, load up our midfield and have the finisher. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jovan Posted October 3, 2014 Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 I think we may see a 4,2,3,1 at some stage. Redmayne Weilaert Kisnorbo Hoffman Ramsey(or any one else) Paartalu Mooy Duga Koren Duff Villa. But fullbacks are major concern, but at the end of the day we have to settle with what we got and maybe in Jan transfer window get a quality fullback. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted October 3, 2014 Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 I'm a fan of 3 CBs and wingbacks with our line. ----------------------Redmayne -----------Chapman Kisnorbo Wielaert Hoffman -------------------------------- Ramsey ----------------------Paartalu ------------Mooy----------------Duff ----------------------Koren -----------------------Villa Put arrows on our FBs. We cover our weaknesses with extra CB, play to our FB running strength, load up our midfield and have the finisher. I like this, Hoffman and Ramsay can have some defensive support from Chapman and Wielaert, and Paartalu can drop back into a CB support position. It frees Hoffman and ramsay up to push forward and overlap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defibrillator Posted October 3, 2014 Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 (edited) I'm a fan of 3 CBs and wingbacks with our line. ----------------------Redmayne -----------Chapman Kisnorbo Wielaert Hoffman -------------------------------- Ramsey ----------------------Paartalu ------------Mooy----------------Duff ----------------------Koren -----------------------Villa Put arrows on our FBs. We cover our weaknesses with extra CB, play to our FB running strength, load up our midfield and have the finisher.I like this, Hoffman and Ramsay can have some defensive support from Chapman and Wielaert, and Paartalu can drop back into a CB support position. It frees Hoffman and ramsay up to push forward and overlap. The problem with this (essentially a 3-5-2) is that you need FBs who are confident going forward (which the Hoff is definitely not) and who are incredibly fit (and unless something dramatic has happened, Ramsay has one of the worst engines in our team - he was pathetic last year in terms of fitness). Otherwise the strikers are too isolated with no support and easily countered by a 4-3-3. We haven't got the cattle to play this system. Again concerns me the inherent weakness and lack of flexibility we are handicapped with by having two pretty average fullbacks. I like the 4-2-3-1 better and Mooy has the fitness/engine and grunt to push forward more, much like Ramsay does at Arsenal. Mooy has the air of a box to box midfielder to me and seems to be very disciplined for such a young player. And if Koren is having a bad day or injured you could play Mooy/Mauk in the advanced role and drop Murdocca or Germano in next to Paartalu as the other DM. Would work well. Edited October 3, 2014 by Defibrillator 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSK_47 Posted October 3, 2014 Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 (edited) I really wish that arrow for Hoff was pointing towards the sideline On a serious note, thats a pretty fucking solid lineup Edited October 3, 2014 by KSK_47 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonyboozeadams Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 I'm a fan of 3 CBs and wingbacks with our line. ----------------------Redmayne -----------Chapman Kisnorbo Wielaert Hoffman -------------------------------- Ramsey ----------------------Paartalu ------------Mooy----------------Duff ----------------------Koren -----------------------Villa Put arrows on our FBs. We cover our weaknesses with extra CB, play to our FB running strength, load up our midfield and have the finisher.I like this, Hoffman and Ramsay can have some defensive support from Chapman and Wielaert, and Paartalu can drop back into a CB support position. It frees Hoffman and ramsay up to push forward and overlap.The problem with this (essentially a 3-5-2) is that you need FBs who are confident going forward (which the Hoff is definitely not) and who are incredibly fit (and unless something dramatic has happened, Ramsay has one of the worst engines in our team - he was pathetic last year in terms of fitness). Otherwise the strikers are too isolated with no support and easily countered by a 4-3-3. We haven't got the cattle to play this system. Again concerns me the inherent weakness and lack of flexibility we are handicapped with by having two pretty average fullbacks. I like the 4-2-3-1 better and Mooy has the fitness/engine and grunt to push forward more, much like Ramsay does at Arsenal. Mooy has the air of a box to box midfielder to me and seems to be very disciplined for such a young player. And if Koren is having a bad day or injured you could play Mooy/Mauk in the advanced role and drop Murdocca or Germano in next to Paartalu as the other DM. Would work well. Ramsey is shite, so play Garuccio at left back. Very confident going forward. And Germano if fit at rb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombegongal Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 I'm a fan of 3 CBs and wingbacks with our line. ----------------------Redmayne -----------Chapman Kisnorbo Wielaert Hoffman -------------------------------- Ramsey ----------------------Paartalu ------------Mooy----------------Duff ----------------------Koren -----------------------Villa Put arrows on our FBs. We cover our weaknesses with extra CB, play to our FB running strength, load up our midfield and have the finisher. I like this, Hoffman and Ramsay can have some defensive support from Chapman and Wielaert, and Paartalu can drop back into a CB support position. It frees Hoffman and ramsay up to push forward and overlap. The problem with this (essentially a 3-5-2) is that you need FBs who are confident going forward (which the Hoff is definitely not) and who are incredibly fit (and unless something dramatic has happened, Ramsay has one of the worst engines in our team - he was pathetic last year in terms of fitness). Otherwise the strikers are too isolated with no support and easily countered by a 4-3-3. We haven't got the cattle to play this system. Again concerns me the inherent weakness and lack of flexibility we are handicapped with by having two pretty average fullbacks. I like the 4-2-3-1 better and Mooy has the fitness/engine and grunt to push forward more, much like Ramsay does at Arsenal. Mooy has the air of a box to box midfielder to me and seems to be very disciplined for such a young player. And if Koren is having a bad day or injured you could play Mooy/Mauk in the advanced role and drop Murdocca or Germano in next to Paartalu as the other DM. Would work well. Ramsey is shite, so play Garuccio at left back. Very confident going forward. And Germano if fit at rb Good luck with that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonyboozeadams Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 I'm a fan of 3 CBs and wingbacks with our line. ----------------------Redmayne -----------Chapman Kisnorbo Wielaert Hoffman -------------------------------- Ramsey ----------------------Paartalu ------------Mooy----------------Duff ----------------------Koren -----------------------Villa Put arrows on our FBs. We cover our weaknesses with extra CB, play to our FB running strength, load up our midfield and have the finisher.I like this, Hoffman and Ramsay can have some defensive support from Chapman and Wielaert, and Paartalu can drop back into a CB support position. It frees Hoffman and ramsay up to push forward and overlap.The problem with this (essentially a 3-5-2) is that you need FBs who are confident going forward (which the Hoff is definitely not) and who are incredibly fit (and unless something dramatic has happened, Ramsay has one of the worst engines in our team - he was pathetic last year in terms of fitness). Otherwise the strikers are too isolated with no support and easily countered by a 4-3-3. We haven't got the cattle to play this system. Again concerns me the inherent weakness and lack of flexibility we are handicapped with by having two pretty average fullbacks. I like the 4-2-3-1 better and Mooy has the fitness/engine and grunt to push forward more, much like Ramsay does at Arsenal. Mooy has the air of a box to box midfielder to me and seems to be very disciplined for such a young player. And if Koren is having a bad day or injured you could play Mooy/Mauk in the advanced role and drop Murdocca or Germano in next to Paartalu as the other DM. Would work well. Ramsey is shite, so play Garuccio at left back. Very confident going forward. And Germano if fit at rb Good luck with that Glass half full..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofhearts Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 I'm a fan of 3 CBs and wingbacks with our line. ----------------------Redmayne -----------Chapman Kisnorbo Wielaert Hoffman -------------------------------- Ramsey ----------------------Paartalu ------------Mooy----------------Duff ----------------------Koren -----------------------Villa Put arrows on our FBs. We cover our weaknesses with extra CB, play to our FB running strength, load up our midfield and have the finisher. I like this, Hoffman and Ramsay can have some defensive support from Chapman and Wielaert, and Paartalu can drop back into a CB support position. It frees Hoffman and ramsay up to push forward and overlap. The problem with this (essentially a 3-5-2) is that you need FBs who are confident going forward (which the Hoff is definitely not) and who are incredibly fit (and unless something dramatic has happened, Ramsay has one of the worst engines in our team - he was pathetic last year in terms of fitness). Otherwise the strikers are too isolated with no support and easily countered by a 4-3-3. We haven't got the cattle to play this system. Again concerns me the inherent weakness and lack of flexibility we are handicapped with by having two pretty average fullbacks. I like the 4-2-3-1 better and Mooy has the fitness/engine and grunt to push forward more, much like Ramsay does at Arsenal. Mooy has the air of a box to box midfielder to me and seems to be very disciplined for such a young player. And if Koren is having a bad day or injured you could play Mooy/Mauk in the advanced role and drop Murdocca or Germano in next to Paartalu as the other DM. Would work well. Ramsey is shite, so play Garuccio at left back. Very confident going forward. And Germano if fit at rb Good luck with that A man can dream. One day he'll play, one day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulhollanddrive Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 Our midfield should be good enough to be a posession based team. Which will help Hoffman and Ramsay, as they have the speed to get back on the counter attack. There are some nice things about our team if players can perform their role. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murfy1 Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 Our midfield should be good enough to be a posession based team. Which will help Hoffman and Ramsay, as they have the speed to get back on the counter attack. There are some nice things about our team if players can perform their role. Fully agree. I'm pretty excited to see this midfield playing possession football, and think they'll do it wonderfully. For instance, I don't think Mooy has really ever been in a team that played possession football, so I can see him lifting his game and being a true standout in our team (if not in the A-League as well) this season. Also agree about our full-backs being helped by our style of play. For example, if the team can have 60% of possession, that means that our opponents will only have the ball 40% of the time, and that would mean that our fullbacks like Hoffman and Ramsay won't be under that much pressure that often. If the likes of Ramsay and Hoffman are helping the team out in attack 60% of the time and are only defending 40% of the time, then I believe our full-backs will be good enough and they won't be real liabilities in the team. That doesn't mean that they won't necessarily be our weakest positions in the team, but it does importantly mean that they won't be liabilities costing the team points through their shortcomings on a consistent basis. I'm bullish that if this team can play the style of football it wants to play, and all players can perform their respective roles, that this will be a real successful season that'll surprise many an observer. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n i k o Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 Murphy I think at the very least we will have the majority of the possession for most games. So defensively this is definitely suitable considering some players in our back line. And for me if we are having the majority possession against most teams for the season then we should also be one of if not the highest scoring team in the league. 'Should' being the operative word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Defibrillator Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 I'm going to get a reputation for being too negative, but a majority of possession often exposes weak defences more than equal or negative possession. As possession is racked up and the team is known for over possessing and pushing higher, opposition tactics are often to concede space, drop deeper and aim to get them on the counter at great speed. (This is pretty well how we've won more than lost against Brisbane over the last few years.). So with two pretty slow centre backs and two full backs who are suspect in defensive capabilities, the last thing we need is to leave ourselves exposed to this. The days of greater possession meaning an assured win are over - people have nutted it out. An average defence is still an average defence no matter how much you have the ball. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murfy1 Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 I'm going to get a reputation for being too negative, but a majority of possession often exposes weak defences more than equal or negative possession. As possession is racked up and the team is known for over possessing and pushing higher, opposition tactics are often to concede space, drop deeper and aim to get them on the counter at great speed. (This is pretty well how we've won more than lost against Brisbane over the last few years.). So with two pretty slow centre backs and two full backs who are suspect in defensive capabilities, the last thing we need is to leave ourselves exposed to this. The days of greater possession meaning an assured win are over - people have nutted it out. An average defence is still an average defence no matter how much you have the ball. Will have to respectfully agree to disagree with your conclusion. I fully agree though that teams that play possession football and try to play the game in the opponent's final third risk getting hit on the counter, as all our players, including the defensive backline, push up field. So it becomes important for our players to try and win the ball back as fast as possible when we lose possession. We saw a lot of this swarming defence last season after JVS took over, and I believe it'll be the cornerstone of our defence this season. An added advantage of this tactic is that the defending doesn't start and rely upon the likes of Ramsay, Wielaert, Kisnorbo, Hoffman, as the defending starts further up field with the midfielders and even forwards quickly pressuring our opponents after we lose possession to try and quickly win it back. And another strength of this approach is that we don't even necessarily have to win the ball back after losing it: we just need to frustrate our opponents counter-attacks and buy the team enough time to get back, get their shape and defensively settle. I also think Paartalu could well be a game-changer, and think he'll very effectively screen our defence and break up play. Last season I don't think Murdocca, Migliorini or even Germano were that good at breaking up play, especially when our opponents were counterattacking. So I expect the big presence of Paartalu to be a very useful 2nd last line of defence, that'll effectively screen our aging CBs and our suspect fullbacks. And then there's just the aim of our team trying to score the first goal, as that statistically gives a team significant odds of finishing the game with points. I think our team still needs to improve on holding onto leads, but still I'm pretty certain we have a respectable winning & drawing record after we score first (as opposed to an abysmal record of of getting back into games after falling behind, which became especially horrendous under Aloisi [indeed, we never won after our opponents scored under Aloisi...]). So IMO, with the defenders we've got, attack is the best form of defence. And if the team can fully implement the desired tactical approach (where we quickly try to win the ball back after losing it), I believe that approach is safer, given the players we've got, than leaving players back near our half to prevent the counter-attack. I'm sure the team will occasionally get hit on the counter, and there will occasionally be moments where our defenders have moments where they look distinctly average. But nonetheless I'm of the opinion that having the majority of possession will minimise our defensive mistakes and goals conceded, and doing the opposite and setting up our team to defend for more than half of the game, and pretending that our defenders can defend, is asking for trouble. Anyway, I guess we'll see how things go pretty soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jovan Posted October 4, 2014 Report Share Posted October 4, 2014 The major concern I have is that our back 5 including both keepers are suspect at bringing the ball out. Playing a possession based game is the right way to play, and pressing manically on the transition stage is vital, but there are still dozens of times when playing out from the back requires well drilled and error free plays. When we dominate the possession most of it will be amongst the back 4 it only takes 1 mistake to invite a goal threat which in turn encourages long balls in future. Not sure Ramsey especially is up to making the right decisions often enough. Having said all that I am confident that over the season it will prove to be a less of a problem than before we kick a ball. We are not far off having really super competitive side and we will play a good style, just hope the errors at the back don't cost too much. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perthheart Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 I'm going to get a reputation for being too negative, but a majority of possession often exposes weak defences more than equal or negative possession. As possession is racked up and the team is known for over possessing and pushing higher, opposition tactics are often to concede space, drop deeper and aim to get them on the counter at great speed. (This is pretty well how we've won more than lost against Brisbane over the last few years.). So with two pretty slow centre backs and two full backs who are suspect in defensive capabilities, the last thing we need is to leave ourselves exposed to this. The days of greater possession meaning an assured win are over - people have nutted it out. An average defence is still an average defence no matter how much you have the ball. This. 30% of possession when you are up against a stretched defence with slow centre backs and dodgy full backs is more than enough to score plenty of goals. Far more dangerous than 60% of sideways tiki taka around two compact lines of 4. Hopefully the better players in midfield will make us more dangerous as a possession based side . So far in our history it's been a piss poor attempt at it and we've been far more enjoyable to watch as a counter attacking team. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 (edited) I'm going to get a reputation for being too negative, but a majority of possession often exposes weak defences more than equal or negative possession. As possession is racked up and the team is known for over possessing and pushing higher, opposition tactics are often to concede space, drop deeper and aim to get them on the counter at great speed. (This is pretty well how we've won more than lost against Brisbane over the last few years.). So with two pretty slow centre backs and two full backs who are suspect in defensive capabilities, the last thing we need is to leave ourselves exposed to this. The days of greater possession meaning an assured win are over - people have nutted it out. An average defence is still an average defence no matter how much you have the ball. This. 30% of possession when you are up against a stretched defence with slow centre backs and dodgy full backs is more than enough to score plenty of goals. Far more dangerous than 60% of sideways tiki taka around two compact lines of 4. Agreed. We've seen Heart concede so many goals like this in four seasons that it's not funny. I've lost count of the times we have come out of the blocks looking a million dollars, have monopolized the ball for 20 minutes or so... and then conceded on a quick break by the opposition. We did it in our very first game, and not much has changed since. Once those full-backs push up too far we are very vulnerable. Edited October 5, 2014 by jw1739 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonyboozeadams Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 I'm going to get a reputation for being too negative, but a majority of possession often exposes weak defences more than equal or negative possession. As possession is racked up and the team is known for over possessing and pushing higher, opposition tactics are often to concede space, drop deeper and aim to get them on the counter at great speed. (This is pretty well how we've won more than lost against Brisbane over the last few years.). So with two pretty slow centre backs and two full backs who are suspect in defensive capabilities, the last thing we need is to leave ourselves exposed to this. The days of greater possession meaning an assured win are over - people have nutted it out. An average defence is still an average defence no matter how much you have the ball. Will have to respectfully agree to disagree with your conclusion. I fully agree though that teams that play possession football and try to play the game in the opponent's final third risk getting hit on the counter, as all our players, including the defensive backline, push up field. So it becomes important for our players to try and win the ball back as fast as possible when we lose possession. We saw a lot of this swarming defence last season after JVS took over, and I believe it'll be the cornerstone of our defence this season. An added advantage of this tactic is that the defending doesn't start and rely upon the likes of Ramsay, Wielaert, Kisnorbo, Hoffman, as the defending starts further up field with the midfielders and even forwards quickly pressuring our opponents after we lose possession to try and quickly win it back. And another strength of this approach is that we don't even necessarily have to win the ball back after losing it: we just need to frustrate our opponents counter-attacks and buy the team enough time to get back, get their shape and defensively settle. I also think Paartalu could well be a game-changer, and think he'll very effectively screen our defence and break up play. Last season I don't think Murdocca, Migliorini or even Germano were that good at breaking up play, especially when our opponents were counterattacking. So I expect the big presence of Paartalu to be a very useful 2nd last line of defence, that'll effectively screen our aging CBs and our suspect fullbacks. And then there's just the aim of our team trying to score the first goal, as that statistically gives a team significant odds of finishing the game with points. I think our team still needs to improve on holding onto leads, but still I'm pretty certain we have a respectable winning & drawing record after we score first (as opposed to an abysmal record of of getting back into games after falling behind, which became especially horrendous under Aloisi [indeed, we never won after our opponents scored under Aloisi...]). So IMO, with the defenders we've got, attack is the best form of defence. And if the team can fully implement the desired tactical approach (where we quickly try to win the ball back after losing it), I believe that approach is safer, given the players we've got, than leaving players back near our half to prevent the counter-attack. I'm sure the team will occasionally get hit on the counter, and there will occasionally be moments where our defenders have moments where they look distinctly average. But nonetheless I'm of the opinion that having the majority of possession will minimise our defensive mistakes and goals conceded, and doing the opposite and setting up our team to defend for more than half of the game, and pretending that our defenders can defend, is asking for trouble. Anyway, I guess we'll see how things go pretty soon. Agree about paartalu. His ability to hold onto possesion and complete a high amount of his passing is going to be key. But most of all his fitness, tackling and aggression will be important. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperfuzz Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 AAMI Park pitch looking incredible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drewmelbcity Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 AAMI Park pitch looking incredible Sad part bigger crowed than what we usually turn out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperfuzz Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 AAMI Park pitch looking incredible Sad part bigger crowed than what we usually turn out don't see the appeal, but then again, i've seen my fair share of shit trucks on AAMI Park over the years #mifsud 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drewmelbcity Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 AAMI Park pitch looking incredible Sad part bigger crowed than what we usually turn out don't see the appeal, but then again, i've seen my fair share of shit trucks on AAMI Park over the years #mifsud Mate I don't either #maycon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 AAMI Park pitch looking incredible I've read somewhere that a new pitch is to be laid ready for our first home game. I'm fascinated to know how that is going to be achieved in the time available - and be suitable to play on from a player safety perspective. There's a time lapse video of the original pitch installation here: http://www.aamipark.com.au/about/tennis/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperfuzz Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 With @MonsterJam on this Saturday, we are taking every measure to protect our award-winning pitch! #AAMIPark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n i k o Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 AAMI Park pitch looking incredible Sad part bigger crowed than what we usually turn out don't see the appeal, but then again, i've seen my fair share of shit trucks on AAMI Park over the years #mifsud Don't know about trucks but I've seen a few buses parked at aami 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jovan Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 Last season was a car wreck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LR9 Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agoalie Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 They just changed his name, nothing about his appearence at all, that is so lazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 Now that is whinging! The kids like Ticker/Bluey, leave him be. At least he's something from the old Heart days that hasn't been over-Manchesterised. I wonder how long before the seats at the MRS are sky-blue? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperfuzz Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 KILL IT WITH FIRE 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse... I thought that Hoffman was suspended Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drewmelbcity Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 Getting me a bluey 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loriente Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 (edited) For fucks sake, CFG clearly not taking the fan survey seriously. I demanded that Ticker receive a public hanging at half time during first home game, and yet here we are. Edited October 6, 2014 by loriente 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cityzen Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 Don't think people get the point of it..... It's for the little kids......... Don't get why everyone is complaining 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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