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Melbourne Heart FC buy out - Man City, Melbourne City FC, etc.


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Off-field if they can let us members know what they are doing and why they are doing it.......great. I couldn't care less if they drink apple juice and piss on the AAMI Park pitch to help make it grow quicker. It'd be something.

On-field I want to see improvement, as everyone does.

As others have said in posts, we just hear the same bullshit and excuses. Coach and players don't give us much. If the board or owners group can let us know something.

Very important point. A big difference between Manchester and New York/Melbourne, and a difference that CFG better learn pretty quickly, is that football is not the mainstream sport as it is in Manchester. It may well be that in Manchester CFG can afford to lose a few disenchanted supporters, because there will always be a ready supply of replacements. Not so here,and especially in Melbourne, the home of Australian Rules. Someone disenchanted with Melbourne City is not easily replaced.

 

I take on board everything you've said Falustur, but I really think that CFG are going to have to manage Melbourne City more aggressively and more openly than they apparently do with the home club. We have had four years of mistakes, excuses and being taken for granted; and we need these things to be corrected sooner rather than later. And, of course, seemingly we have no way to get this message across. Our local management just does not have enough dialogue with Melbourne City supporters.

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And just to add some more info (actually I've written this before) regarding the sophistication of the Melbourne public, is that in 2012 for the AFL (the dominant sport in this city) game between Melbourne Demons and Port Power (both teams being crap at the time) less than 6,000 people showed up at the MCG, a venue that holds almost 100k. People do not turn up to watch sub-standard games (or anything else for that matter).

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This isn't Europe or South America where generations are aligned with a club through history.

From grandfather and his long term friends attending local games as well as training sessions where he helped on week nights.

They bled for the club and it was the only sport which gelled the society through good and often bad times.

No other options where on offer that would encapsulate the passion in the way football has.

People would watch and support their team even when it has been relegated.....people were the club.

In Australia it is totally different landscape. Anyone coming over here will not understand complexity and enormous challenge of how to successfully make it work, we all have be swimming agaist the current for many years.

I personally couldn't fathom why the sport I love to death was referred to in such a derogatory way.

Took me good 10 years to see how entrenched local attitudes were.

CFG throwing some petty cash into our market by buying licence to run a club and hoping people will just embrace them, show how little they know about this country.

We are not fools and don't want be just plastic fans either.

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And just to add some more info (actually I've written this before) regarding the sophistication of the Melbourne public, is that in 2012 for the AFL (the dominant sport in this city) game between Melbourne Demons and Port Power (both teams being crap at the time) less than 6,000 people showed up at the MCG, a venue that holds almost 100k. People do not turn up to watch sub-standard games (or anything else for that matter).

 

That is absolute rubbish.

 

Cant remember any AFL game at the G getting less than 5 figures in my lifetime, if not 15K.

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The overall premise is correct, in many ways the A-league will be harder than Man City was as money alone can only go so far in a salary capped league, as lets face it a marginal sport.

 

This is where the CEO position is just SO IMPORTANT for CFG - they need to go out and fine the best, most experienced CEO they can in this country, who understands the league from top to bottom. Not sure exactly who, but I am sure there would be some great candidates out there.

 

That person has to be the conduit to the CFG, basically translation world football to a-league football for them, so they can better understand us and us them.

 

This CEO needs to then great the football department which will work best in this country, and will do that with the help of the CFG.

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Plenty of statistics on AFL attendances. http://afltables.com/afl/afl_index.html

 

And for Melbourne specifically. http://afltables.com/afl/crowds/melbourne.html#3a

 

The lowest I can see at the MCG since 1997 for Melbourne is vs. Port Adelaide Round 7, 2003, attendance 12,410.

 

But let's not get off the point, which is that football is not the no. 1 spectator sport in Australia, and certainly not here in Melbourne, and that someone lost to the game, for whatever reason, is not easily replaced or persuaded to come back.

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When the club was taken over there were high expectations and unfortunately they are nowhere near being realised. Some fans left due to the take-over and the changes others stayed not liking the changes but understanding they were to get much more in return for the changes. So far it seems the promise has yet to be realised and there have been too many missed opportunities.

David Villa - that announcement blew the league away and the fans away but in the end we got him but for 4 games and he rocked up just before we were to start. If they announcement was earlier we'd get him for 4 games everyone would have been happy. 

Marque Signing - (I know I'm going to get slammed for this) I was never expecting to sign anyone playing champions league level but I was expecting the best the A-League had seen but we got a low Premier Leagur League 1 player. He'd probably sneak into the top players we've seen but below Ono, Del Pierro and Kewell. I think they did do well to sign Duff.

Player development centre - has anyone heard anything on this since the take-over was first announced?

 

Shirts - we still don't have away shirts available for the fans. How hard is that to organise?

Recruitment - this was done well for the midfield - Duff, Mooy, Paartalu but no forwards or defence.


 

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And just to add some more info (actually I've written this before) regarding the sophistication of the Melbourne public, is that in 2012 for the AFL (the dominant sport in this city) game between Melbourne Demons and Port Power (both teams being crap at the time) less than 6,000 people showed up at the MCG, a venue that holds almost 100k. People do not turn up to watch sub-standard games (or anything else for that matter).

 

That is absolute rubbish.

 

Cant remember any AFL game at the G getting less than 5 figures in my lifetime, if not 15K.

 

My mistake! The attendance figure for round 17 was 6714 on July 21 BUT not at the G - it was at the TIO. And yes the average figure seems to be around about the 18k mark for the demons at the G when not performing. Which given the cost of the stadium it would have been deep in the red.

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Without researching ( really can't be bothered) but off the top off my head I think CFG underestimated the Melbourne market. In fact its probably unique worldwide for the amount of professional sports teams worldwide. 10 AFL, 2 rugby, 2 A league, 2 20/20 cricket, 1 state cricket, 1 basketball, plus a few womens teams. That 20 plus (elite I use that losely in our case) professional team set up for a population of just under 4.5 million. Not to mention stand alone events such as Australian open tennis, Spring racing carnival, Formula 1 and motorbike grand prixs.

 

For CFG to transform Melbourne Heart into a leader in this saturated market would and will require a huge total commitment and will take time, maybe a generation of fans. To reach a point being competitive and financially viable could take 5 years plus. In the meantime we have to cop up and down teams and the standard bullshit cliques on results.

 

I am not going anywhere, but to frank I am not going to happy either.

 

CFG need to come out and make a statement about short term long term goals and not take us for granted. I am not asking for immediate transformation, just a bit of hope that things are turning and things will get better.   

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We sometimes get carried away a bit though. I'm all for progress and want to see change immediately but we are only 8 rounds into our first season with CFG. I think it will take a bit more time before they making any huge changes. But that doesn't mean that changes aren't imminent though.

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We sometimes get carried away a bit though. I'm all for progress and want to see change immediately but we are only 8 rounds into our first season with CFG. I think it will take a bit more time before they making any huge changes. But that doesn't mean that changes aren't imminent though.

Wrong forum to be rational. At least leave that to murf

Edited by Tonyboozeadams
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In our league, with the challenges of salary caps and player restrictions, and with most other clubs well ahead of us in all aspects prior to CFG taking over, the club was well behind the 8 ball in terms of a rebuild.

 

The transformation into a powerhouse team will take time, and I suspect 3 years at least is needed before we can seriously challenge for any silverware and be considered a contender.

 

What is frustrating is that this season is turning out to be a learning curve year for CFG, which means they didn't do enough last season to really understand the club's strengths, weaknesses and culture, when they first took over the club.  For instance, based on last seasons record, and after a full pre-season including the trip to Manchester, to allow our recruitment strategy not to include strengthening our defence was criminal & sackable ... it should have been the main priority.

 

Also, given how outspoken the old guard was on Marquees, the Villa debacle should not have occurred.

 

It feels like 1 step forward, 2 steps back at moment.

 

However, I do trust that CFG will facilitate the club's transformation.  When the FRG met with Simon Pearce last year, I recall he was unsure about the A-League in terms of how to create a competitive squad.  He talked about Manchester City's model, with regard to having 2 world class players for each position and 4 or 5 world class utility players.  He knew that this couldn't be applied in the A-League and he indicated that work needed to be done to determine the best way to compile a competitive balanced squad.

 

I think CFG will be looking closely at the other clubs who have well balanced squads ... perhaps the best and brightest football operations and club admin people are being tapped on the shoulder at present to come to City in the future.  I am sure that a few would have been sounded out whilst guests of CFG in Abu Dhabi recently.  This types of personnel acquisitions will take time, but I think we will see it happen, and this will translate into the creation of a balanced and competitive squad.   

 

I also think there will be some action in the January transfer window and surely we will see a new defender or two come to the club.  If this happens, then I reckon we will be a chance of sneaking into the 6.

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This types of personnel acquisitions will take time, but I think we will see it happen, and this will translate into the creation of a balanced and competitive squad.   

 

I also think there will be some action in the January transfer window and surely we will see a new defender or two come to the club.  If this happens, then I reckon we will be a chance of sneaking into the 6.

"All we are sayin', is give us some progress".

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And just to add some more info (actually I've written this before) regarding the sophistication of the Melbourne public, is that in 2012 for the AFL (the dominant sport in this city) game between Melbourne Demons and Port Power (both teams being crap at the time) less than 6,000 people showed up at the MCG, a venue that holds almost 100k. People do not turn up to watch sub-standard games (or anything else for that matter).

What you see as sophistication I see as disloyalty and a selfish me me me attitude that's evident in our society. Things should be easy, everything should be free without lifting a finger and if they're not we won't bother. Sophistication my arse.

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Maybe the club could organise something like this......

 

http://www.foxsports.com.au/football/premier-league/paper-talk-dortmund-players-give-back-to-fans-a-four-minute-hat-trick-mario-arrives-in-style/story-fn8uzjqx-1227144770280?nk=539825b2634f87f0fbe8a5ecaf44d84c

 

Would love to see how many glasses Redders would let slip through his hands whilst pouring.

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agree ... but with our squad, the calibre of the other teams, and the salary cap limitations, etc, sooner seems improbable, noting that I am talking three years to seriously challenge for any silverware and be considered a contender.  In the meantime,if we sneak into the 6, and get on a run, we could win something, however, this would be unexpected.

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Maybe the club could organise something like this......

 

http://www.foxsports.com.au/football/premier-league/paper-talk-dortmund-players-give-back-to-fans-a-four-minute-hat-trick-mario-arrives-in-style/story-fn8uzjqx-1227144770280?nk=539825b2634f87f0fbe8a5ecaf44d84c

 

Would love to see how many glasses Redders would let slip through his hands whilst pouring.

 

He'd be too busy clapping his hands every time someone poured a successful beer

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It is difficult to argue with supporters who have been at Heart from the beginning. Watching as their team laboured to create a winning culture. Then watch as CFG bought them out, changed the colours, and then watch the same shit they have been for the last 4 years!

 

 

However, CFG will be well aware that whatever changes happen in the background, the main thing for a team to keep and attract supporters is success on the field for the first team. That is why first Mark Hughes and then Roberto Mancini were replaced.

 

Of course they like to give people a chance, but they won't shirk from acting if things continue on their current trend.

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In 2008, when Sheikh Mansour bought MCFC....

It amazes me how you place so much faith in CFG when they have only one success(Manchester City) under their belt. Sure, there are no gaping failures that I am aware of, but I don't really see how they can be seen for being in for the long haul when they have never really been in a position to cut and run yet. Six years is hardly long term, not for anyone older than 35 at least. In regards to their A-League adventure they are, at best, an unknown.

I'm no expert on the subject, so I wouldn't mind being enlightened upon what makes CFG so great. Perhaps you could tell me what massive failures of their own doing that they've managed to rectify?

 

 

You asked me to address this and I said I would, so I'd better. Sorry I didn't get round to doing so earlier.

 

Honestly, you're probably not going to like this answer. CFG have definitely committed some stupid actions and got things very wrong. The first things that came to mind were the sackings of both Hughes and Mancini. After only a few days, I agreed with the logic of both, but both were handled in a poor way. CFG have a quite continental (i.e. Italian/German/Spanish etc) understanding of football - they did even before hiring Soriano and Beguiristain - and their take on hiring managers seems to be that you don't fire someone before you have prepared the successor. In Hughes' case, they forced him to manage his last game at the club even after the press had become aware that he was going to be sacked, and he did so even though the press had identified that Mancini was (reportedly, although some sources say it was false) sitting in the crowd at the game, waiting to be appointed. The media fallout over that was monolithic, and the main reason they didn't break their relationship with the fans over it was that so many City fans had hated Hughes for his United connections and refused to accept him from Day One anyway. When it came to sacking Mancini it was more palatable, as it was clear to all and sundry of the supporters that Mancini had burned his bridges with his poor attitude to both those under him and over him, and the club tried to pretend that they hadn't already lined up a successor by waiting a month to appoint Pellegrini, but the media had been reporting that he had been in contact with the club since the stories of Mancini's departure sprang up. They also copped a huge amount of flack for not waiting until the end of the season (two games away with nothing to play for) to do it.

 

There have been other things, too. The hiring of Brian Marwood was widely unpopular with the fans, and there were vehement calls for him to be sacked after his ineptitude in the transfer market saw us wait until the last day of the 2012 summer window to sign 5 players who would achieve a grand total of virtually nothing between them for something like £50m. Thankfully Marwood was moved sideways into an academy role, though there remain many fans who want him sacked. Similarly, a lot of fans are strongly disappointed that we haven't signed any top-notch players this season either, and there's a decently-sized thread on Bluemoon calling for Soriano and Beguiristain to be sacked for failing to bring in world class players since they were hired two years ago, which is believed by many to have been pretty much their sole purpose for being hired. I can't say I subscribe to this idea, but many do.

 

I guess you could also highlight the issues of off-field stuff as well. Despite having the cheapest season ticket in the league, a lot of our season tickets are actually quite expensive, and the club doesn't seem to have taken many steps to do anything about it. They've also run a couple of schemes which have turned into total white elephants, such as an initiative to surround the stadium with glass circles paid for by the fans, spelling out club messages and with individual inscriptions on them. When they failed to sell enough they quietly toned down the ideas to a radically smaller proposition, without really publicising that they were doing it.

 

You'll realise that I've listed a few issues without talking about what they did. That's because their actions in every case have been virtually identical. The club, as a general rule, does not publicly acknowledge criticism of its failures. It does not issue apologies when it gets things wrong. It doesn't respond when questioned about them by the press. It soaks up any negative publicity it receives without doing anything to mitigate it. But it doesn't refuse to act. The club does act - I think that they're actually very good about sitting down and realising when they've got things wrong. But they act silently. They're like the kid at school who never talks to anyone and is treated as a bit of a loner and an outcast, but behind that solemn exterior is a kid who pays attention in every class, and when anyone tells them they've done something wrong they don't apologise but they don't do it again. I found it quite hard to recall half of those things, because frankly most of them barely register as failures to me anymore. People were upset - some people were furious - when Hughes and Mancini were sacked, but these days it's rare to find anyone who criticises the decisions. If anyone does criticise them, it'll mainly be a "we should have hired Mourinho" post, which usually earns the poster a fair bit of ire anyway. The lack of recruitment in 2012 is cited as stupid, but fans don't really care anymore as the club turned a misfiring team in 2012-13 into the record highest-scoring team in English history only a season later. People do still moan about ticket prices, but they then admit that they get decent value for it anyway, and finish by adding that it's not the club's fault but the fault of modern-day football. Somehow CFG is just very good at making you forget the bad times. But it does require patience.

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Falastur, 4 years of patience is to long for us Melbourne Heart/city. CFG have got the recruiting completely wrong this season. Last season we had a weak defensive line and were short up front. The signing of Koren was a major stuff up. Duff although he has been great they should have signed a number 10 as we deeply need a goal score. If you look at Sydney FC they lacked a number 10 and went out and got Janko. I think CFG need to spend more time in Melbourne and learn the sporting landscape and not go about it in an arrogant way. They can also do us a favour and sack mr Munn and JD

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agree ... but with our squad, the calibre of the other teams, and the salary cap limitations, etc, sooner seems improbable, noting that I am talking three years to seriously challenge for any silverware and be considered a contender.  In the meantime,if we sneak into the 6, and get on a run, we could win something, however, this would be unexpected.

 

Perth Glory....

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Falastur, 4 years of patience is to long for us Melbourne Heart/city. CFG have got the recruiting completely wrong this season. Last season we had a weak defensive line and were short up front. The signing of Koren was a major stuff up. Duff although he has been great they should have signed a number 10 as we deeply need a goal score. If you look at Sydney FC they lacked a number 10 and went out and got Janko. I think CFG need to spend more time in Melbourne and learn the sporting landscape and not go about it in an arrogant way. They can also do us a favour and sack mr Munn and JD

CFG didnt do the recruiting. Thats all JVS and JD and we are 20% owned by storm who know melbourne so you can hardly accuse then of being arrogant

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Heart of Melbourne I agree that we want those changes to happen but remember whenever you mention to a Man City supporter that you have been patient four years, they on the other hand have probably been patient all their lives watching a team that is unsuccessful. Koren still isn't proven to be a success but neither has he been proven not to be a success so we'll see about that. I know for a fact Soriano has been here quite a bit and the two training sessions I've gone to watch I've seen him there, which means they're most likely on top of things. As I a said in another post I believe they are watching everyone at the club very closely and that includes Munn and JD and the time will come when they decide whether they stay or not. But it won't happen 8 rounds into the season.

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Heart of Melbourne I agree that we want those changes to happen but remember whenever you mention to a Man City supporter that you have been patient four years, they on the other hand have probably been patient all their lives watching a team that is unsuccessful. Koren still isn't proven to be a success but neither has he been proven not to be a success so we'll see about that. I know for a fact Soriano has been here quite a bit and the two training sessions I've gone to watch I've seen him there, which means they're most likely on top of things. As I a said in another post I believe they are watching everyone at the club very closely and that includes Munn and JD and the time will come when they decide whether they stay or not. But it won't happen 8 rounds into the season.

He is also here for the base and academy as well

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I know that things are happening behind the scenes but we have an under performing senior team that has Heart written all over it. Our crowds have gone from 15k to 9k. We are trending backwards and this is not good for the club, the new members or potential members who are still undecided on which Melbourne team to follow.

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I looked on the Man City website and General admission tickets were $35 Aus for one game.  Ours $26 (plus the Ticketek tax).  $9 more to see Aguero as opposed to Williams.

 

Yeah....but the travelling costs would be so much more lol

 

Seriously though I am just beginning to realise how much it does cost to watch A League football.

 

How does it compare to the costs of other sports in Australia?

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In Melbourne roughly about the same. Most events are in the city so that means $10 parking plus $30 give or take a bit for the game.

 

I thought you got more Aussie dollars for our pound Niko

 

I mean a typical City game would cost circa £45. Kiro's prices suggest you get less Aussie dollars for the pound.

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conversion rate is around 0.6 pounds to the dollar atm

You lads must get paid very well then

I pay £600 season ticket for 18 games which is just over £33 per game.......and I think that is expensive!

Any work over there? ;)

Sure just don't come by boat

 

 

Why not?

 

Surely we will be winning by then :D

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Season tickets start at about $220 I think

 

In the A League?

 

The cheapest adult ticket at City is £250....but you have to take the seat you are given if your lucky enough to get one.

 

However, we are still one of the cheapest grounds to get into in the EPL. God help you if you live in London!

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Season tickets start at about $220 I think

In the A League?

The cheapest adult ticket at City is £250....but you have to take the seat you are given if your lucky enough to get one.

However, we are still one of the cheapest grounds to get into in the EPL. God help you if you live in London!

Yes, cheaper if you're a student though. 12-14 home games per season

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