Falastur Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 (edited) Lonestay, I'm not sure you're helping things. What they are arguing for here is no different to what City fans would say if Mansour had come into City and said "blue is the colour of failure, red is the colour of success," and made our kits into replicas of the United kits. I said before that I wouldn't stop supporting the club if that happened, and I stick by it, but there would be a massive disconnect among the fans and it wouldn't feel like "our club" anymore. So what if there's a glorious future coming, it wouldn't feel right. This is not just a case of balancing pros and cons. The arguments for and against have dramatically different weighting. I don't know what's going to happen with the colours, and of course I'm mildly disappointed at the prevailing attitude of blindly assuming the worst will happen -though I understand why people are doing it - but really, saying "it's worth selling out your soul for the future that's coming" is not going to win any followers here, and it's risking damaging what good will towards our club remains on this forum. Edited April 12, 2014 by Falastur 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rellum Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 I don't think he is helping things either. Right now we have had our say and we wait to see what the new owners will do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 Lonestay I think that you also need to be clear about the challenges: Heart had a culture of failure and mediocrity from top to bottom under the previous owners, this is the establishment organisational culture. This will take time to change, CFG can make a difference with good back room recruitment but the culture won't change overnight and it isn't a problem that can be solved solely by spending money. The on-field performance reflects the culture of failure, you can see the team grasp defeat from the hands of victory over and over - it just freezes with anxiety when in a winning position and crumbles under pressure. This will take time to address and change. Heart has the facilities of an English pub team. This can't be changed overnight, it takes time to scout sites, get permits, build. The salary cap limits MHFC to the same player salary limits as other franchises except for the marquee and the coaching staff so we can't spend our way to success. This makes the HAL fundamentally different from the EPL. Sure we have the most extensive scouting network in the league and this will help but again, it'll take time to build a team. We may not finish last again next season but I'm not expecting too much too soon either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonestay Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 The thing is tho falastur what ever way you look at it Heart have been bought because they do not have history, they are four seasons old so are the perfect club for ANY new owner to mould into what they want . people seem to be getting all knotted up over colours and a name that has existed for a very short space of time, harsh as that sounds its true . I personally dont think the colours will change i think the name will though . I am sure a few fans on this forum will walk away after four seasons BUT not everyone will, and once people see how the club is shaped and set up for the future then there will be an influx of new fans and probably the old faces will be back on the terraces as well! people as a whole hate change but in life it happens ,sometimes good, sometimes bad but people have to face up to change in life . In four seasons time melbourne city fans will look back and think how lucky the change was . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rellum Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 The thing is tho falastur what ever way you look at it Heart have been bought because they do not have history, they are four seasons old so are the perfect club for ANY new owner to mould into what they want . people seem to be getting all knotted up over colours and a name that has existed for a very short space of time, harsh as that sounds its true . I personally dont think the colours will change i think the name will though . I am sure a few fans on this forum will walk away after four seasons BUT not everyone will, and once people see how the club is shaped and set up for the future then there will be an influx of new fans and probably the old faces will be back on the terraces as well! people as a whole hate change but in life it happens ,sometimes good, sometimes bad but people have to face up to change in life . In four seasons time melbourne city fans will look back and think how lucky the change was . Easy to say when it is not your club. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonestay Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 Belaguttman of course it takes time to build stadia and training facilities, but these guys bring a level of experience and expertise that is equal to the mony they will spend on the club, the management side and the way the club go about the revenue and promotion of the club is probably gonna get a big kick up the backside. Just because at this moment in time you have pub training facilities doesnt mean you have to have a pub team attitude to running the club . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonestay Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 Rellum yep your right, easy to say when its not your club but true though none the less, ADUG did not buy Heart cos they are the top team in the league and the finished article, they were bought because they have huge potential . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 Belaguttman of course it takes time to build stadia and training facilities, but these guys bring a level of experience and expertise that is equal to the mony they will spend on the club, the management side and the way the club go about the revenue and promotion of the club is probably gonna get a big kick up the backside. Just because at this moment in time you have pub training facilities doesnt mean you have to have a pub team attitude to running the club . No doubting their professionalism, just their relationship to the fans Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rellum Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 Rellum yep your right, easy to say when its not your club but true though none the less, ADUG did not buy Heart cos they are the top team in the league and the finished article, they were bought because they have huge potential . So nice someone from another country coming on here and telling us we have no history and we should just get over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonestay Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 not saying you have no history just a short history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silva10 Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 Belaguttman of course it takes time to build stadia and training facilities, but these guys bring a level of experience and expertise that is equal to the mony they will spend on the club, the management side and the way the club go about the revenue and promotion of the club is probably gonna get a big kick up the backside. Just because at this moment in time you have pub training facilities doesnt mean you have to have a pub team attitude to running the club . No doubting their professionalism, just their relationship to the fans I have said before Bela that the way the owners go about their business can be very frustrating for fans. They tend not to do their business through the media. Therefore the only thing your hearing is from the media who are assuming the colours and name will change. Now I don't think many would be surprised to see the name change, but I do still believe the colours will stay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 Belaguttman of course it takes time to build stadia and training facilities, but these guys bring a level of experience and expertise that is equal to the mony they will spend on the club, the management side and the way the club go about the revenue and promotion of the club is probably gonna get a big kick up the backside. Just because at this moment in time you have pub training facilities doesnt mean you have to have a pub team attitude to running the club . No doubting their professionalism, just their relationship to the fans I have said before Bela that the way the owners go about their business can be very frustrating for fans. They tend not to do their business through the media. Therefore the only thing your hearing is from the media who are assuming the colours and name will change. Now I don't think many would be surprised to see the name change, but I do still believe the colours will stay. I hope that you are right silva10, otherwise it'll feel like winning the lottery but then having your ticket confiscated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonestay Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 belaguttman if any team was run like a pub team then it was City before Sheik Mansour !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 At least you had somewhere to train, we've had 6 different training locations this season alone and infamously use wheelie bin ice baths. It was a legacy of the loser poverty aesthetic of the previous owners. The on field performance reflects that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 My experience in dealing with English people in management and developments is that they have no regard for the people they are dealing with. They do not take the other parties interests or feelings into account. I know this is a gross generalisation but there is a reason generalisations are made. The English in my experience also do not keep their word or end of agreements unless they are forced to either by a stronger or third party. I am pessimistic that Man City care at all about Melbourne Heart or our existing supporters. They have not demonstrated or expressed any love for us and my gut feeling is that we have been taken over, not just invested in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falastur Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 The thing is tho falastur what ever way you look at it Heart have been bought because they do not have history, they are four seasons old so are the perfect club for ANY new owner to mould into what they want . people seem to be getting all knotted up over colours and a name that has existed for a very short space of time, harsh as that sounds its true . I personally dont think the colours will change i think the name will though . I am sure a few fans on this forum will walk away after four seasons BUT not everyone will, and once people see how the club is shaped and set up for the future then there will be an influx of new fans and probably the old faces will be back on the terraces as well! people as a whole hate change but in life it happens ,sometimes good, sometimes bad but people have to face up to change in life . In four seasons time melbourne city fans will look back and think how lucky the change was . I reject that line of thought utterly. If Mansour and Khaldoon wanted newbuilds - wanted clubs where they could say "look, we've created something from nothing" then why didn't they write off City's history when they bought us in 2008? Why didn't they create a new club and pay for its progression from non-league into Premier League? They have studiously not take Red Bull's approach to buying clubs, they have instead respected our history every step of the way. He k, if they wanted a club with no history, why did they - let's not pretend it didn't happen - make an attempt to buy Sydney FC first, a club who date back to the founding of the A-League. Why did they reject the chance to buy WSW, a club even newer than Heart? They moved for Heart because they knew they had the right combination of factors - location, potential, fanbase, opportunity to integrate into CFG. Anyway, you're toying with the fans of a club which is not your own. Maybe you honestly do believe these things, but it's become obvious now that the Heart fans don't agree and never will. This is not your club to determine whether their history is important or not. Incidentally, what do you make of the stories of City looking into buying either Boavista (founded 1903) or Estoril (founded 1939) in Portugal? Presumably they have no viable history either, because both of them date back to only the 20th century? If City only wants blank slates, then why these clubs? Continuing to push this line of thought is only going to foster disharmony and anger. I respect your right to an opinion, but sometimes you have to accept that advertising that opinion simply does not improve the situation, and in fact only makes it worse. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonestay Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 Its true what Silva 10 says the way the owners go about things can be frustrating at times, so much gets written in the press in England about City that is just made up by the journalists,( if you can cal them that) to fill column inches because the club does not actively talk to them . What does happen though is that they just get on with what they say they will do, quietly in the back ground and before you know it boom ! new world class training facility opening in July something that the press over here have really not picked up on yet, no column inches given over to that project and what it is doing for the local community. So i guess the same thing is happening in Melbourne local press get no tit bits from the club so just make up bullshit to fill the back pages . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silva10 Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 My experience in dealing with English people in management and developments is that they have no regard for the people they are dealing with. They do not take the other parties interests or feelings into account. I know this is a gross generalisation but there is a reason generalisations are made. The English in my experience also do not keep their word or end of agreements unless they are forced to either by a stronger or third party. I am pessimistic that Man City care at all about Melbourne Heart or our existing supporters. They have not demonstrated or expressed any love for us and my gut feeling is that we have been taken over, not just invested in. We are owned by Abu Dhabi and I can tell you that image is very important to them and how they are portrayed. Added to this our CEO and Director of Football are Spanish. The English management you speak of is very diluted at City. If you also look at CITC you will see that we have been involved in community football for almost 30 years. I believe they will take note of what your fans are saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falastur Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 My experience in dealing with English people in management and developments is that they have no regard for the people they are dealing with. They do not take the other parties interests or feelings into account. I know this is a gross generalisation but there is a reason generalisations are made. The English in my experience also do not keep their word or end of agreements unless they are forced to either by a stronger or third party. I am pessimistic that Man City care at all about Melbourne Heart or our existing supporters. They have not demonstrated or expressed any love for us and my gut feeling is that we have been taken over, not just invested in. That's fine then. There are basically no Englishmen in City's leadership structure. The owner and Chairman are Emirati. The people pulling the footballing strings and running the global academy structure are Spaniards. Your old Australian Chairman seems to still be around. No Englishmen in sight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonestay Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 Falastur if you were looking to buy a club in a league that is not a long established league. then Heart would be your choice, it is only four years old and has fantastic potential. Now if you are looking to buy in a league that is very well established of course you cant wipe out history, Mr Tan at Cardiff city is trying that right now by changing team colours, but those colours are 110 years old not 4. I am not trying to be provocative just trying to get some perspective on this, Heart are four years old In a relatively young league, If you were the new owner and you were trying to bring some uniformity across your footballing group what would you do? Any new owner would look to unify colours and a common name that would be recognised world wide . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 Peter, that's a fairly insulting post you've made there about "the English." I don't think it's helpful. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 Lonestay we'd better just butt out then, with only 4 years of passionate support for our club what the fuck would we know and who cares then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silva10 Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 Falastur if you were looking to buy a club in a league that is not a long established league. then Heart would be your choice, it is only four years old and has fantastic potential. Now if you are looking to buy in a league that is very well established of course you cant wipe out history, Mr Tan at Cardiff city is trying that right now by changing team colours, but those colours are 110 years old not 4. I am not trying to be provocative just trying to get some perspective on this, Heart are four years old In a relatively young league, If you were the new owner and you were trying to bring some uniformity across your footballing group what would you do? Any new owner would look to unify colours and a common name that would be recognised world wide . 4 year, 40 years or 400 years it makes no difference Some points of yours I agree with, but to be honest you come across as arrogant and condescending If the shoe was on the other foot I am sure you would be making the same comments as fans on here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonestay Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 Belaguttman hey its all about opinions if we all saw the world the same way it would be a boring world !! we have the same owners, one thing is for sure you have exciting times ahead whatever colour you play in or whatever you get called, stick with it because its about to get good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jovan Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 I think you miss the point lonestay. There is a group who may not stick around or may have their connection and involvement reduced if there is a name/colour change they don't agree with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 Belaguttman hey its all about opinions if we all saw the world the same way it would be a boring world !! we have the same owners, one thing is for sure you have exciting times ahead whatever colour you play in or whatever you get called, stick with it because its about to get good! The point is that if the name and colours are both changed before next season then it isn't my club anymore. It isn't an organic wish to change that comes from within it'll be an imposed change that kills my club off. New club? I'll have to see what it is like 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silva10 Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 I think you miss the point lonestay. There is a group who may not stick around or may have their connection and involvement reduced if there is a name/colour change they don't agree with. Oh I think he understands that but it doesn't really matter to him I do hope you will stay around if the worse happens, but I fully understand if you didn't. Hoping the colours will remain though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jovan Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 yep staying. A few of my group are borderline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonestay Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 Silva10 if i supported a team that was four years old, i would want that team to grow and realise its potential and if i saw A Sheik Mansour type riding over the sand dune on a camel who was able to release that potential i would welcome him into the club. But as a supporter i would have to except that to get that potential fulfilled then i will probably have to give something up, and in this case it looks like it is possibly colours and name but who knows ? The club has that chance to fulfill its potential and if it did, how many fans would, in all honesty really worry about the colours and the name ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 Silva10 if i supported a team that was four years old, i would want that team to grow and realise its potential and if i saw A Sheik Mansour type riding over the sand dune on a camel who was able to release that potential i would welcome him into the club. But as a supporter i would have to except that to get that potential fulfilled then i will probably have to give something up, and in this case it looks like it is possibly colours and name but who knows ? The club has that chance to fulfill its potential and if it did, how many fans would, in all honesty really worry about the colours and the name ? Why would I have to give something up to get the potential fulfilled? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caddy Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 Silva10 if i supported a team that was four years old, i would want that team to grow and realise its potential and if i saw A Sheik Mansour type riding over the sand dune on a camel who was able to release that potential i would welcome him into the club. But as a supporter i would have to except that to get that potential fulfilled then i will probably have to give something up, and in this case it looks like it is possibly colours and name but who knows ? The club has that chance to fulfill its potential and if it did, how many fans would, in all honesty really worry about the colours and the name ? So sick of hearing shit like this! It matters to a whole lot of fans who have followed this club from the start and have shared experiences in those colours. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silva10 Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 Silva10 if i supported a team that was four years old, i would want that team to grow and realise its potential and if i saw A Sheik Mansour type riding over the sand dune on a camel who was able to release that potential i would welcome him into the club. But as a supporter i would have to except that to get that potential fulfilled then i will probably have to give something up, and in this case it looks like it is possibly colours and name but who knows ? The club has that chance to fulfill its potential and if it did, how many fans would, in all honesty really worry about the colours and the name ? How long the club has been going is not important. Changes should only be made with the involvement of the fans. That way everyone is happy if changes are made I also don't think the owners find the wishes of the Heart fans irrelevant. Personally I think it would be best if they competed as Melbourne Heart next season so a proper consultation could take place Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonestay Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 cos nothing comes for free blaguttman ,if you were a multi millionare thats assuming your not! then you are going to want somrthing in return and in this case it seems it could possibly be colours and name to fit the club with the global footballing group that you are building . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kippax75-MCFC Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 Do city fans find it hard supporting england in the world cup. Only the none English one's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caddy Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 cos nothing comes for free blaguttman ,if you were a multi millionare thats assuming your not! then you are going to want somrthing in return and in this case it seems it could possibly be colours and name to fit the club with the global footballing group that you are building . That's a really insipid and weak approach to life; nothing worth fighting for, and everything can be bought. Pathetic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonestay Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 Caddy you have been bought though! no doubt CFG will listen to the supporters, i personally think the colours are going to stay the same, but you cannot deny that if you were building a global company you would want a standard colour scheme and name that was associated with othe members of the group . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caddy Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 Clubs are bought and change owners all the time, rarely if ever are colours changed and for good reason. Calling us Melbourne City will do enough to bring us into line with the "brand". We should not accept or expect a colour change though. And I don't blame anyone that feels like it's not the same club any more, because it really isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 (edited) cos nothing comes for free blaguttman ,if you were a multi millionare thats assuming your not! then you are going to want somrthing in return and in this case it seems it could possibly be colours and name to fit the club with the global footballing group that you are building . No, I'm no multi-millionaire, the franchise isn't my plaything so I'd better just suck it up and be grateful for what is served up to me. I'd better let my betters work out what is good for me. Edited April 12, 2014 by belaguttman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonestay Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 so caddy you accused me of an insipid and weak approach nothing worth fighting for pathetic. BUT three posts later you are willing to compromise on the name ?????? so fans would except chang then ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strider Posted April 12, 2014 Report Share Posted April 12, 2014 Well I wouldn't mind a completely new slate to work on. Get rid of the players, name and colours. A new terrace should also be a high priority because Yarraside is a clusterfuck littered and led by either retards or 12 year old kids using their lunch money to purchase fred perry polo t shirts. Good riddance to this season and good riddance to this pathetic chapter of a club nobody will remember. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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