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jw1739
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1 hour ago, NewConvert said:

So if I read this correctly at the end of next season the following players are out contract: Matt Sutton (G); defenders Rostyn Griffiths and Nathaniel Atkinson; midfielders Florin Berenguer, Connor Metcalfe and Anthony Lesiotis; forwards Stefan Colavsky and R Borges Rodrigues. If Metcalfe departs, and I do expect him to depart for overseas, then the mid-field will look rather thin. For that matter any suspension or injury will make it thin.

I don't think that you can expect anything different. I probably should put their ages into the list, and you will see that one or two are potential retirees, and I would have little doubt that Petrillo would be hoping to re-sign Atkinson and Cola (just as examples). But the reality is, if we extrapolate from the past, players under contract  won't be prevented from leaving if they really want to, whatever their contract situation.

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On 22/10/2021 at 7:54 AM, jw1739 said:

I don't think that you can expect anything different. I probably should put their ages into the list, and you will see that one or two are potential retirees, and I would have little doubt that Petrillo would be hoping to re-sign Atkinson and Cola (just as examples). But the reality is, if we extrapolate from the past, players under contract  won't be prevented from leaving if they really want to, whatever their contract situation.

I think you are definitely wrong on the text in bold. Genreau for example, wanted desperately to leave but was forced to sit out his entire contract. His value of course was that he was a Home Grown player. Metcalfe, Atkinson and Colkovski are also Home Grown and therefore outside the cap. So that is a whole lot of $ made available inside the cap for visa players or the high profile locals. City will not permit these players to leave until their contract ends. Rostyn would likely be on a loyalty circumstance also given he is in his 4th year. The only signed scholarship players who have been permitted to leave as i see it, were all U18 and considered minors. 

BTW this is the SFC model of salary management. SFC promise the world to aspiring 'youth' of 20 - 22/23YO just to keep their bench and depth littered with 'older more experienced youth'. Some of these players would be starters or bench on match day in other AL clubs. - Think Swibel, Van Der Saag (still on a scholarship as i understand!) Zuvela, (i am sure their are plenty of others) who are still on Scholarship, or HG low ball contracts. Now i am stuffed if i know why these players stay at SFC as for some their careers will be exhausted before they are given a real chance, a chance that is clearly available at another club in the A league. But maybe the SFC contracts are long and pretty watertight, for their own benefit. consider a Young player that at 19YO signs a 4 year contract only to never play., or play a bit part for ACL or FFA cup. Sydney reap all the salary cap benefits with no genuine desire for the players development. It is just a means to allow them to stack their Ist team with more experienced higher cost first XI players. 

With us, we a have Metcalfe and Atkinson as bolted on Ist team players, with Cola as a fast approaching possibility. This means a cap saving of around 600K on first team players. which is probably Nabbout and some left over for the new Italian guy. So IMO No way in hell do City let players depart 'if they really want to'. 

SFC have clearly demonstrated the benefit of this strategy as evidenced by their trophy cabinet. I obviously beleive that our Youth development concepts are far more genuine than theirs, but a contract is a contract. So if you are 18 and older and have signed with City for a fixed term. IMO you could expect to serve it in full. 

i think Atkinson and Metcalfe will only be with us for this season before going OS BTW. 

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5 hours ago, citymad said:

I think you are definitely wrong on the text in bold. Genreau for example, wanted desperately to leave but was forced to sit out his entire contract. His value of course was that he was a Home Grown player. Metcalfe, Atkinson and Colkovski are also Home Grown and therefore outside the cap. So that is a whole lot of $ made available inside the cap for visa players or the high profile locals. City will not permit these players to leave until their contract ends. Rostyn would likely be on a loyalty circumstance also given he is in his 4th year. The only signed scholarship players who have been permitted to leave as i see it, were all U18 and considered minors. 

BTW this is the SFC model of salary management. SFC promise the world to aspiring 'youth' of 20 - 22/23YO just to keep their bench and depth littered with 'older more experienced youth'. Some of these players would be starters or bench on match day in other AL clubs. - Think Swibel, Van Der Saag (still on a scholarship as i understand!) Zuvela, (i am sure their are plenty of others) who are still on Scholarship, or HG low ball contracts. Now i am stuffed if i know why these players stay at SFC as for some their careers will be exhausted before they are given a real chance, a chance that is clearly available at another club in the A league. But maybe the SFC contracts are long and pretty watertight, for their own benefit. consider a Young player that at 19YO signs a 4 year contract only to never play., or play a bit part for ACL or FFA cup. Sydney reap all the salary cap benefits with no genuine desire for the players development. It is just a means to allow them to stack their Ist team with more experienced higher cost first XI players. 

With us, we a have Metcalfe and Atkinson as bolted on Ist team players, with Cola as a fast approaching possibility. This means a cap saving of around 600K on first team players. which is probably Nabbout and some left over for the new Italian guy. So IMO No way in hell do City let players depart 'if they really want to'. 

SFC have clearly demonstrated the benefit of this strategy as evidenced by their trophy cabinet. I obviously beleive that our Youth development concepts are far more genuine than theirs, but a contract is a contract. So if you are 18 and older and have signed with City for a fixed term. IMO you could expect to serve it in full. 

i think Atkinson and Metcalfe will only be with us for this season before going OS BTW. 

You conveniently left out the qualifier that precedes the bolded text "...if we extrapolate from the past...." Perhaps you are correct in your statement about Denis Genreau, but if so, it was completely pointless to make him sit out his contract because he wasn't being played.

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13 hours ago, jw1739 said:

You conveniently left out the qualifier that precedes the bolded text "...if we extrapolate from the past...." Perhaps you are correct in your statement about Denis Genreau, but if so, it was completely pointless to make him sit out his contract because he wasn't being played.

It made perfect sense for the management in a Salary Capped league such as ours, and is the entire point.I think it is a bad thing especially when it affects young players.I am just saying that Young players can be caught in a bind via a long contract that in the first instance seems generous and full of promise of playing reward. They should be permitted to seek other options but the HG status trumps player preference. 

Edited by citymad
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22 hours ago, citymad said:

This means a cap saving of around 600K on first team players. which is probably Nabbout and some left over for the new Italian guy. So IMO No way in hell do City let players depart 'if they really want to'. 

Pucciarelli is a Designated player outside the cap in 300-600k range 

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35 minutes ago, citymad said:

I guess that means more money for players inside the cap. 

Definitely needed, given the season we put together. The club's done an amazing job at keeping the squad together, keeping the departures to a minimum and the new signings being perfect replacements.

Squads like Victory, WSW and Macarthur all look great on paper with the array of new high-calibre signings but I imagine there'll be a sizeable lag between expectations and results as there always is when teams end up needing time to gel.

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On 23/10/21 at 12:58 PM, citymad said:

I think Atkinson and Metcalfe will only be with us for this season before going OS BTW. 

By the sounds of things, Petrillo will be doing all he can to keep them here for another two seasons. I’m a broken record on this but it’s better for these guys to stay until around 23-24 before heading overseas. Get a 100+ senior appearances, become one of the best in the league in your position and then make the leap.

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4 hours ago, Harrison said:

By the sounds of things, Petrillo will be doing all he can to keep them here for another two seasons. I’m a broken record on this but it’s better for these guys to stay until around 23-24 before heading overseas. Get a 100+ senior appearances, become one of the best in the league in your position and then make the leap.

I could see Atkinson leaving at the end of this season personally as he could be argued as the best in his position already, imo metcalfe needs another season or two to really prove he is the best box to box type midfielder in the league

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IMO Metcalfe is better than Genreau and Devlin as a midfielder and they have done Ok so far. Metcalfe will have at least 85 Pro games if you include ACL and FFA cup before the end of the season so i think he is ready to have a shot OS. other players such as Duncan have also done well (barring the ACL injury). There is always a risk of course but i believe he should take it. 

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  • 1 month later...
1 hour ago, Mr MO said:

So would we be looking at movement in the January window?

At the moment our two incoming have been duds. Leckie has been poor and is now injured whilst Pucciarelli has done one half of a cup match against non league opposition and has barely warmed the bench otherwise. Tilio is better than Leckie on current form. Meanwhile our keeper has the yips and is a liability. It's early doors yet and things can easily improve, but right now, those are the squad issues I'd be looking at.

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1 hour ago, fensaddler said:

At the moment our two incoming have been duds. Leckie has been poor and is now injured whilst Pucciarelli has done one half of a cup match against non league opposition and has barely warmed the bench otherwise. Tilio is better than Leckie on current form. Meanwhile our keeper has the yips and is a liability. It's early doors yet and things can easily improve, but right now, those are the squad issues I'd be looking at.

GK is the issue I would be addressing least getting a more mature back up to put pressure on Glover. 

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4 hours ago, fensaddler said:

At the moment our two incoming have been duds. Leckie has been poor and is now injured whilst Pucciarelli has done one half of a cup match against non league opposition and has barely warmed the bench otherwise. Tilio is better than Leckie on current form. Meanwhile our keeper has the yips and is a liability. It's early doors yet and things can easily improve, but right now, those are the squad issues I'd be looking at.

I assume the Italian was meant to be a replacement for Luna, we are really missing him and look mid table at the moment. Although there's been some strange squad selections, like Atkinson and Tilio on the bench after being standouts last season.

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  • 3 weeks later...
3 minutes ago, fensaddler said:

No apologies necessary! It seems the transfer is official but with the COVID outbreak at the club he may not yet have actually left. 

Remembering that he and Nabbout actually signed for Perth until COVID intervened....

Other than that, we've now lost three key players from last season's successes - Luna, Noone, and now Atkinson.

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  • 3 weeks later...

surely those off contact players will be sorted soon and we will get announcements. We don't have a No 2 goalie sorted for next year. Sutton might depart? maybe bring in another higher level goalie to push tom Glover a bit more. Seems to me like he would thrive if there was more of a threatening No 2. 

 

If Pucciarelli doesn't start this game against WU i say absolutely has to be let go.  

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Yea i realise he is contracted and has rights - but he doesn't look at all happy or settled to me from the facial expressions on game day . I am hopeful that he suddenly gets an opportunity and steals the show but if he doesn't,i hope we can release him. 

 

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  • 1 month later...

I’m looking ahead to next season already. Metcalfe gone, several players getting older and are going to slow down.

The way our squad is being used or better to say so NOT used - I can’t see immediate talent stepping up as they aren’t getting any game time or the talent isn’t truly there.

I get the feeling that this playing group (the same 13 players we use) is at the end of the development and peaked with these boys.

Next season it is going to be even more important to get the vacancies right other wise I can see a poor mediocre season ahead.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Looking back this season already, do we think PK has improved the squad or dealt adequately with the departures.

I believe, he has brought 5 new senior players in - Leckie, Pucci, Hall, Jenkinson and Endoh.

I can’t help to think we’ve gone backwards.

Edited by Mr MO
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1 hour ago, Mr MO said:

Looking back this season already, do we think PK has improved the squad or dealt adequately with the departures.

I believe, he has brought 5 new senior players in - Leckie, Pucci, Hall, Jenkinson and Endoh.

I can’t help to think we’ve gone backwards.

IMO we've slipped backwards a bit. Leckie is no better than Noone, and Luna was a major loss (but I think we can thank the Federal Government for that - thank you very much Mr. Morrison). Pucci is in the freezer and Endoh is in the fridge, and how Jenkinson is on what he's on is totally beyond me, which is why Forest are trying to get rid of him.

IMO we're nowhere near what we were in the days of Sorensen, Cahill, Mooy, Novillo, Bruno in his first two seasons, Schenkeveld etc. etc.

Then you need to look at the coaching team. Definitely gone backwards. 

But having said all that, has the A-League itself gone backwards in a general sense? And we must not forget COVID, not as an excuse, but as a reality in terms of how in can affect individuals on a long-term basis. It's documented that quite a few get "long COVID" with brain fog, lethargy etc. Most of our squad have been infected at one time or another, and we know Curtis had a tough time with it.

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4 hours ago, jw1739 said:

IMO we've slipped backwards a bit. Leckie is no better than Noone, and Luna was a major loss (but I think we can thank the Federal Government for that - thank you very much Mr. Morrison). Pucci is in the freezer and Endoh is in the fridge, and how Jenkinson is on what he's on is totally beyond me, which is why Forest are trying to get rid of him.

IMO we're nowhere near what we were in the days of Sorensen, Cahill, Mooy, Novillo, Bruno in his first two seasons, Schenkeveld etc. etc.

Then you need to look at the coaching team. Definitely gone backwards. 

But having said all that, has the A-League itself gone backwards in a general sense? And we must not forget COVID, not as an excuse, but as a reality in terms of how in can affect individuals on a long-term basis. It's documented that quite a few get "long COVID" with brain fog, lethargy etc. Most of our squad have been infected at one time or another, and we know Curtis had a tough time with it.

Luna is a huge loss which definitely hasn't been matched. Leckie IMHO is an upgrade on Noone, as good as he was. Our full back stocks are more depleted now, with Akka and the Gooch gone, Jenkinson an adequate but not similar replacement, and Bos just coming through. Jamieson is not the player he was towards the end of last season, but Berenguer is definitely playing better. Pucci and Endoh appear to be largely dead wood. The former we thought might be Luna's replacement but it hasn't worked out that way. Overall, I'd say we've gone backwards whilst several teams in the league have improved.

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, Mr MO said:

Wrong thread JW! 

Ah, apologies all! Excuse: I'm distracted because while I 'm at home working in the workshop on essential projects the missus is damaging the credit card on frivolities and fripperies at Chaddy.

However there are positives. I did manage to nip out to Bunnings for some essentials, and then pick up a six-pack of Blue Moon on the way home, which she won't notice in the account!

Edited by jw1739
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1 hour ago, fensaddler said:

Overall, I'd say we've gone backwards whilst several teams in the league have improved.

Agreed.

PKs first season of recruiting by himself is definitely not a pass. We are a top club now and that comes with high standards. The team has been set back by our own doing and / or stubbornness.

I would say that Leckie, Hall are good and within expectations.

Jenkinson is serviceable but nothing more, not a City fullback and I wonder if we are getting value for money. Nobody watching our games would say this is a premier league fullback. 

For the other important spots, Pucci and Endoh, nothing more to add. Complete fail and which can cost us dearly. 

 

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Now this is an interesting list, if accurate.

https://www.sportingfree.com/football/melbourne-city-players-salaries/

Reis, JMAC and Florin by far the highest earners. Of course front loading or back loading agreements can’t be drawn from here. It might mean that any of these 3 are marquee players for this season.

Pucci is missing but we know he is on minimum $300k. Jenkinson might even be topping this list.

Idris was on the payroll too at the start of the season.

Edited by Mr MO
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