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jw1739
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A professional footballer has a pretty short career by most standards. Suppose he turns professional at the age of 18 and plays until he's 39, that's 21 years - I don't think it's unreasonable to have been at 7 clubs during that time because in the lower leagues  many contracts are one and two years only. Liam Reddy is now 41 - OK he's been at a few clubs but he's been at Perth for a good few years now.

Old farts like me can look back at "permanent employment" but these days it's not the same, and many so-called "professional" people are on 3-year contracts and have to start looking around for something new after two years or so.

So overall I don't think we should be critical of players who move clubs. I would just like to see more of our academy players given more minutes with City before they move on. That's why I'd like to see us play at least 33 league matches (3 rounds with the current 12 clubs) and introduce a League Cup or something similar, and extend the season accordingly. As it is the League shuts down for 6 months and then has to re-start almost from scratch to create a new footprint with the fans.

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8 hours ago, NewConvert said:

Well City is JMac's third A-League club and his overseas career also includes three clubs for a total of six. Nabbout also is on his third A-League club and has had two overseas clubs. So that for me indicates minor journeyman. Of course Nikor Tpor-Stanley and Reddy would be the gold stars for journeyman.

My interpretation of a journeyman differs. I consider a journeyman more of squad player used to cover a position rather than a genuine starting player. To me it doesn't matter how teams you have played for, its more what the player is actually contributing at a club. A journeyman to me is term to bag a paticular player that he is not good enough to start for a particular team and moves around trying to find a starting spot. To me a journeyman should be by and large avoided and replaced with talent pushing the incumbent senior.

Therefore under no circumstances would I ever consider JMAC or Nabbout under my own understanding journeymen.

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28 minutes ago, Jovan said:

My interpretation of a journeyman differs. I consider a journeyman more of squad player used to cover a position rather than a genuine starting player. To me it doesn't matter how teams you have played for, its more what the player is actually contributing at a club. A journeyman to me is term to bag a paticular player that he is not good enough to start for a particular team and moves around trying to find a starting spot. To me a journeyman should be by and large avoided and replaced with talent pushing the incumbent senior.

Therefore under no circumstances would I ever consider JMAC or Nabbout under my own understanding journeymen.

Yes. A journeyman was originally a qualified tradesman who rather than work for himself worked for another qualified tradesman, usually termed his "master" and usually on a daily basis. So, for example, a master shoemaker might have one or more apprentice learning the trade, and employ a journeyman shoemaker at the same time. Over time it has tended to become a somewhat derogatory term, but that was not the original intent of its use.

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5 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

Yes. A journeyman was originally a qualified tradesman who rather than work for himself worked for another qualified tradesman, usually termed his "master" and usually on a daily basis. So, for example, a master shoemaker might have one or more apprentice learning the trade, and employ a journeyman shoemaker at the same time. Over time it has tended to become a somewhat derogatory term, but that was not the original intent of its use.

Okay, but my question is can you regard JMAC and Nabbout journeymen.

I say that's unfair and inaccurate.

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47 minutes ago, bt50 said:

I dont think we have a single player on our list that could be considered that tbh. 

I think Galloway comes pretty close, despite being good enough to be a regular starter and often being so at his various clubs. 

But multiple years solely in the A-League never as a top 5 player at a club, often spending a lot of time on the bench and being at an age were he isn't just getting spots on potential anymore (27) has him pretty close. If he went to another club that wasn't a top 2 club/he wasn't a standout for I think he'd 100% qualify. 

Agree though that players who clubs build their club around and occupy key spots don't really qualify even if they have been to a few clubs on their "journey". 

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4 hours ago, Jovan said:

My interpretation of a journeyman differs. I consider a journeyman more of squad player used to cover a position rather than a genuine starting player. To me it doesn't matter how teams you have played for, its more what the player is actually contributing at a club. A journeyman to me is term to bag a paticular player that he is not good enough to start for a particular team and moves around trying to find a starting spot. To me a journeyman should be by and large avoided and replaced with talent pushing the incumbent senior.

Therefore under no circumstances would I ever consider JMAC or Nabbout under my own understanding journeymen.

 

4 hours ago, jw1739 said:

Yes. A journeyman was originally a qualified tradesman who rather than work for himself worked for another qualified tradesman, usually termed his "master" and usually on a daily basis. So, for example, a master shoemaker might have one or more apprentice learning the trade, and employ a journeyman shoemaker at the same time. Over time it has tended to become a somewhat derogatory term, but that was not the original intent of its use.

The actual meaning in the UK/USA is as per @Jovan definition - the journey is not derived from travel but from journal that is daily. It is only in Australia that the term has acquired a negative connotation when used with sports. This is probably because the AFL always placed loyalty to the club ahead of everything else, including player welfare. Hence for AFL players that would switch clubs they would be called journeyman. These days the AFL being more professional means that people are getting used to players moving clubs but then I don't know of any AFL player that has played at more than three clubs.

The reason I brought it up is because some coaches/clubs are prepared to keep playing an average but known journeyman player rather than take a gamble/time in developing youth. Kudos to AU/CCM/City for developing talent which was @jw1739original point.

Personally, it should not matter whether players keep changing clubs but it does. And if a player finds a club that suits them (and vice versa) and they are able to cement a spot on the starting line up, fantastic. If not they will most likely keep changing clubs.

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  • 1 month later...

With Berenguer returning to fitness.

Potentially having a bench of Reis, Galloway, Jamieson, Florin and Nabout plus a handful of good youth.

I actually think this is the strongest squad we’ve ever assembled!?

We really need to starting giving Raphael some game time in games when we are some goals up or are chasing a come back. Never, like never subbing JMAC is not good for anything.

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59 minutes ago, Mr MO said:

With Berenguer returning to fitness.

Potentially having a bench of Reis, Galloway, Jamieson, Florin and Nabout plus a handful of good youth.

I actually think this is the strongest squad we’ve ever assembled!?

We really need to starting giving Raphael some game time in games when we are some goals up or are chasing a come back. Never, like never subbing JMAC is not good for anything.

Remember the restrictions on the composition of the bench.

I agree on Rafa. Very nice player from what I've seen of him. Our forward line is ageing, and he does need match time.

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6 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

Remember the restrictions on the composition of the bench.

I agree on Rafa. Very nice player from what I've seen of him. Our forward line is ageing, and he does need match time.

Looking at recent matches, of our attacking youngsters, we've had Rafa and Sulemani on the bench. Keen to see more of both of them. But I do trust the club on this, they'll play when they're ready. Difficult to break into a strong, successful squad.

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13 hours ago, fensaddler said:

Looking at recent matches, of our attacking youngsters, we've had Rafa and Sulemani on the bench. Keen to see more of both of them. But I do trust the club on this, they'll play when they're ready. Difficult to break into a strong, successful squad.

No game time also means they won’t develop and are more than likely going to look elsewhere.

Both are central strikers and with PK I always thought we were taking big risks playing JMAC every game and every minute available (he was once subbed in 88th minute). In some games he was visibly exhausted or grabbing his hammy.

Game time doesn’t necessarily mean starting matches of course.

Edited by Mr MO
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  • 1 month later...
15 minutes ago, MHFC-FAN said:

Gomulka jumping ship too soon once again? Surely he would have had a real chance to take O'Neils spot in the starting 11 when he likely departs at the end of the season... 

At this rate, if we assume Florin will finish up, O'Neill goes to Troyes, and Berisha goes back to Reims, we'll be left with Oresti, Durakovic and Van der Venne as a midfield. Another major rebuild required.

Depends what Gomulka's plans are, but prima facie it does seem a bit hasty on the part of whoever initiated his departure.

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1 hour ago, jw1739 said:

At this rate, if we assume Florin will finish up, O'Neill goes to Troyes, and Berisha goes back to Reims, we'll be left with Oresti, Durakovic and Van der Venne as a midfield. Another major rebuild required.

Depends what Gomulka's plans are, but prima facie it does seem a bit hasty on the part of whoever initiated his departure.

I think at worst case scenario we're left with Oresti, Dutakovic and VDV... But we're likely to be slightly better off then that. We've been pretty fortunate for the past 3 seasons to retain most of our squad. 

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19 hours ago, MHFC-FAN said:

Gomulka jumping ship too soon once again? Surely he would have had a real chance to take O'Neils spot in the starting 11 when he likely departs at the end of the season... 

Well he’s had his chance and didn’t convince me.

Unfortunately his neutral and go with the flow play has been an issue in that key position. That was very obvious last season. He played his part but mostly as a passenger IMO. Rado must see this the same as he’s rarely been used.

He needs to play and just can’t get minutes with us.

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2 hours ago, Mr MO said:

Well he’s had his chance and didn’t convince me.

Unfortunately his neutral and go with the flow play has been an issue in that key position. That was very obvious last season. He played his part but mostly as a passenger IMO. Rado must see this the same as he’s rarely been used.

He needs to play and just can’t get minutes with us.

Yeah I guess he was in his limited games by in large just an average member of the midfield. He did have a nice corner kick to him though... 

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22 minutes ago, MHFC-FAN said:

Yeah I guess he was in his limited games by in large just an average member of the midfield. He did have a nice corner kick to him though... 

Bit of a Catch-22 situation. Do you keep the solid player, who might be a steady performer for you over a number of seasons, or do you keep the more spectacular player who as soon as he sees a better opportunity he moves elsewhere? This is a problem for all feeder clubs and feeder leagues.

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  • 3 weeks later...
12 minutes ago, fensaddler said:

Some interesting injury news today. Leckie out for 6-8 weeks as had been hinted. We've also lost Arion Sulemani, one of our best youngsters and on the edge of the first team, for best part of a year. Good and Jamieson close to being back.

https://melbournecityfc.com.au/news/alm-injury-update

Melbourne City will be without star winger Mathew Leckie for an extended period.

Leckie suffered an injury in training late last week and scans have now confirmed a hamstring strain which will see the Socceroo sidelined for the next 6-8 weeks.

We can also confirm that young striker, Arion Sulemani, is set for a long stint on the sidelines after tearing his ACL.

The injury comes at a disappointing time with the youngster on the verge of receiving his first senior minutes after impressing on the training pitch in recent weeks.

Sulemani will undergo surgery later this week before beginning what is expected to be a 9-12 month rehabilitation program.

In some more positive news, Curtis Good and Scott Jamieson are both nearing a return to action and will undergo testing this week to determine if they are ready to return to the matchday squad.

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1 hour ago, fensaddler said:

Some interesting injury news today. Leckie out for 6-8 weeks as had been hinted. We've also lost Arion Sulemani, one of our best youngsters and on the edge of the first team, for best part of a year. Good and Jamieson close to being back.

Injuries in a squad are part and parcel of the game. In our case it's up to the senior players in the squad to stand up with Leckie out for the business end of the season. Berenguer, Van Der Venne, Berisha, and particularly Nabbout have got to start putting away the chances.

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2 hours ago, jw1739 said:

Injuries in a squad are part and parcel of the game. In our case it's up to the senior players in the squad to stand up with Leckie out for the business end of the season. Berenguer, Van Der Venne, Berisha, and particularly Nabbout have got to start putting away the chances.

True. but geez we seem to have a lot of soft tissue injuries this season. I wonder what has changed.

On a separate note, Beringuer and Berisha contract finish at season's end. Do either of them merit a contract extension? Further Reis has one more season, honour it or try and find him a new home?

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15 hours ago, jw1739 said:

Injuries in a squad are part and parcel of the game. In our case it's up to the senior players in the squad to stand up with Leckie out for the business end of the season. Berenguer, Van Der Venne, Berisha, and particularly Nabbout have got to start putting away the chances.

Saddest about Sulemani. He's 16, 17 at most and a real prospect. Scored for fun in the youth and knocking on the door of the first team. Will be tough for him being out that long, and I was looking forward to seeing him play in the first team.

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On 27/02/2023 at 9:58 PM, NewConvert said:

True. but geez we seem to have a lot of soft tissue injuries this season. I wonder what has changed.

On a separate note, Beringuer and Berisha contract finish at season's end. Do either of them merit a contract extension? Further Reis has one more season, honour it or try and find him a new home?

IMO both players are enigmatic. Berenguer is so good at times and then slow and ineffective at others. Berisha is with us on loan from Reims of Ligue 1 but I don't think he's demonstrated Ligue 1 talent while he's been here. Berenguer is 33, Berisha 30. Given that a few others in the squad are also up around 30 it could be better if we were bringing in and through some younger players.

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1 hour ago, jw1739 said:

IMO both players are enigmatic. Berenguer is so good at times and then slow and ineffective at others. Berisha is with us on loan from Reims of Ligue 1 but I don't think he's demonstrated Ligue 1 talent while he's been here. Berenguer is 33, Berisha 30. Given that a few others in the squad are also up around 30 it could be better if we were bringing in and through some younger players.

The problem that I have in that right now we don't players that can fill those roles. Rafa definitely needs game time, Colavski left, Caputo is out injured and so on. So we would need to find almost ready replacement in other teams.

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48 minutes ago, NewConvert said:

The problem that I have in that right now we don't players that can fill those roles. Rafa definitely needs game time, Colavski left, Caputo is out injured and so on. So we would need to find almost ready replacement in other teams.

Caputo is playing. https://melbournecityfc.com.au/news/npl-report-city-6-3-eastern-lions

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Not as simple as that. Firstly, Berenguer stays he will be on the loyalty player in the salary cap meaning part of his salary is outside the cap as played over 4 years with us. Berisha is only on loan so may be called back or sold by Reims. Also we don't know if Berenguer is applying for citizenship. If he does he no longer is a Visa. As such there's good reasons to hang onto him for another year

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  • 1 month later...

Who do we anticipate won't be around/cut in the offer season?

GKs 

Believe Glover is heading out and Young is coming in.

Sutton I will happily cut.

Defenders

Jamie needs to retire.

Nino seems a bit slow now 50/50

Bos certainly departing 

Stokes can go

Midfielders 

Berenguer if he becomes Aus citizen keep him if not let go.

Berisha is likely not being extended. 

O'Neil is most likely departing 

Forwards 

Rumor Raphael is going to Adelaide next season 

Tilio would like to keep but may try overseas 

 

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Just reviewing the men's squad on the club's website and I noticed that Lam is a listed as a mid-fielder but he always appears to be named as a defender. In any case I think that Jamo's time is up as well as Nuno's. If Bos departs as expected there will be a hole on the left side as none of the other players listed appear to be natural left backs. Hall can cover the cover for Lam or Good. Galloway is cover for Talbot. Where Stokes and Esposito fit in, I have no idea.

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IMO it's a "wait and see" at this point. Suddenly the squad seems a bit thin to me - a few players are ageing in football terms, and there's not a lot waiting to come up from the Academy.

IMO this coming season, both domestically and in the ACL, is going to be a stern test for Rado and whatever players he will have at his disposal. Fans' expectations are going to be high too - you don't win three in a row and then be accepting of mediocrity!

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