Current squad

[Le Hack]

That's why I'd keep Jenkinson, he's a known quantity that can do a job in that position well. As opposed to both Pucci and Endoh who are obviously not in PKs plans and the risk you always have of picking up Visa's that turn out like both of those players and God knows we've had a long history of those types.

[NewConvert]

Not sure what Jenkinson himself or the parent club would like him to stay in Melbourne or not. I think that he has been dependable and has height. I am not sure about Talbot as I don't recall watching him play. Hence my preference for CCM's Lewis Miller.

It is always tricky as to when to tell a player that the team needs to refresh and they no longer are in the coaches plans. I wonder how Jammo feels like joining the club administration in some capacity.

[Mr MO]

8 hours ago, Le Hack said:

That's why I'd keep Jenkinson, he's a known quantity that can do a job in that position well. As opposed to both Pucci and Endoh who are obviously not in PKs plans and the risk you always have of picking up Visa's that turn out like both of those players and God knows we've had a long history of those types.

True, at least we know what you have with him and he’s a PK favourite.

My biggest criticism would be that he’s not a City style fullback and the tandem with Nabbout is just not working optimally.

Despite his height I find him very often under the ball or miss timing cross passes (see ACL). Then again he has scored some good goals but assists less.

I alway assess against wages and how a players compare to the rest of the league. Is he that much better than the likes of Galloway, Geria and Miller?

Edited May 20, 2022 by Mr MO

[n i k o]

10 hours ago, bt50 said:

Agree and understandable they fell into the trap. I do think the writing was on the wall a bit when a young Melbourne City side ran absolute rings around them in that grand final last year and they couldnt keep up, esp in the front third.

And likewise, I believe we may be seeing our own writing on the wall. I don't like how we struggled to contain victory during the last derby. We need to recruit very smartly in the of season to ensure the squad is up for the challenge next season. I reckon it will shape up to be our most difficult season yet with many teams gaining ground this year. Teams like victory and Sydney will be a hungry as ever to gain top spot. 

[MHFC-FAN]

28 minutes ago, n i k o said:

And likewise, I believe we may be seeing our own writing on the wall. I don't like how we struggled to contain victory during the last derby. We need to recruit very smartly in the of season to ensure the squad is up for the challenge next season. I reckon it will shape up to be our most difficult season yet with many teams gaining ground this year. Teams like victory and Sydney will be a hungry as ever to gain top spot. 

Sydney will have to have some pretty handy players to come in, given the overhaul this off season before they will be considered 'challengers' next season...

[Mr MO]

41 minutes ago, n i k o said:

And likewise, I believe we may be seeing our own writing on the wall. I don't like how we struggled to contain victory during the last derby. We need to recruit very smartly in the of season to ensure the squad is up for the challenge next season. I reckon it will shape up to be our most difficult season yet with many teams gaining ground this year. Teams like victory and Sydney will be a hungry as ever to gain top spot. 

Agreed. The “stick to system and it worked last season with the same players” is eventually coming to crash down and before you know it we do a repeat as Sydney. I’m seriously concerned about the frustrated looks on the field of some players, something is off despite winning the league.

I don’t think PK has the smarts to do this overhaul nor will see it coming, he’s got thought the Mombaerts way with the same player group - that’s all he knows. 

Edited May 20, 2022 by Mr MO

[Mr MO]

Amini as a Metcalf replacement?

[jw1739]

6 minutes ago, Mr MO said:

Amini as a Metcalf replacement?

He's no longer a promising youngster you know. He's 29 now. The Academy is no use if we have to turn to these late 20s players.

[Mr MO]

11 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

He's no longer a promising youngster you know. He's 29 now. The Academy is no use if we have to turn to these late 20s players.

I meant more in his starting role in midfield, it’s clear now we can’t have a midfield full of youngsters.

[n i k o]

Other clubs: re sign coach after failed season and boring tactics

MC Forum: smart decision, makes sense, good to have faith etc.

MCFC: Re sign title winning coach

MC Forum: Get rid of him, lost the dressing room, sack him.

 

[Jovan]

10 hours ago, MHFC-FAN said:

Sydney will have to have some pretty handy players to come in, given the overhaul this off season before they will be considered 'challengers' next season...

Not sure.

Victory this season compared to last is a prime example of how to rebuild a team.

Yes they've been lucky with injuries and have a proven coach but still bringing in so many players can be done.

Difference between the two IMO will be the coach, I don't rate Corica, I can't see him rebuilding and challenging. 

[rass]

Corica is just an entitled whinger. Glad they kept him on.

Edited May 20, 2022 by rass

[NewConvert]

1 hour ago, Jovan said:

Not sure.

Victory this season compared to last is a prime example of how to rebuild a team.

Yes they've been lucky with injuries and have a proven coach but still bringing in so many players can be done.

Difference between the two IMO will be the coach, I don't rate Corica, I can't see him rebuilding and challenging. 

Almost a one off - Popovic brought with him Perth's core group that won the premiership back in 2019.

[Mr MO]

48 minutes ago, NewConvert said:

Almost a one off - Popovic brought with him Perth's core group that won the premiership back in 2019.

And several players back from Greece, he’s surrounded himself with known players.

[MHFC-FAN]

10 hours ago, n i k o said:

Other clubs: re sign coach after failed season and boring tactics

MC Forum: smart decision, makes sense, good to have faith etc.

MCFC: Re sign title winning coach

MC Forum: Get rid of him, lost the dressing room, sack him.

 

Some people on this forum would complain if they won $1,000,000...

[Jovan]

58 minutes ago, MHFC-FAN said:

Some people on this forum would complain if they won $1,000,000...

This.

[jw1739]

1 hour ago, MHFC-FAN said:

Some people on this forum would complain if they won $1,000,000...

If they were on the age pension they probably would...

[Mr MO]

2 hours ago, MHFC-FAN said:

Some people on this forum would complain if they won $1,000,000...

I’ll use that money to pay out incompetent coaches and recruitment managers!

[Torn Asunder]

In between the hysterics,  this forum offers intelligent criticisms and often lands on the truth. Far better than mainstream media or social media. 

For instance, the failings of PK and Glover this season have been rightly discussed.  Also when things go well, like on the weekend when PK gets it right with tactics and subs, this is also reflected. 

[jw1739]

Edited May 25, 2022 by jw1739

[Jake]

Didn’t realise pucciarelli was signed for two years. That doesn’t appear to have gone well. 

[heart1011]

On 29/05/2022 at 11:28 AM, Jake said:

Didn’t realise pucciarelli was signed for two years. That doesn’t appear to have gone well. 

What is with the club having a track record of signing these Visa players but never playing them and at best have them on the bench but never making an appearance?

[MHFC-FAN]

32 minutes ago, heart1011 said:

What is with the club having a track record of signing these Visa players but never playing them and at best have them on the bench but never making an appearance?

We have failed on so many occasions with visa players. More often than not they are either shite or hardly given a chance. These players ultimately should be good enough for the first 11. Not keeping the bench warm... 

[jw1739]

1 hour ago, heart1011 said:

What is with the club having a track record of signing these Visa players but never playing them and at best have them on the bench but never making an appearance?

IMO this is an overstatement. Several have been below what we expected, but "never" playing them? I can immediately think of disappointments such as Koren, Hughes, O'Halloran, Tsubaki, Endoh and Pucci. Earlier there was Meeuwis and Gray. Who are you thinking of, and also who do you rate as a success visa player?

[Le Hack]

Heart/City has had 44 visas play for us. It's difficult to rate each one. Do you rate them on games played, well then players like say Koren and Tadic were probably acceptable and players like say Fred and Windbichler weren't. If you rate on expected output in the games played then maybe they weren't but players like Mifsud and Colazo were fails. But simply on games played bearing in mind some came for only half a season and also accepting injury as a fail then you would probably rate 13-14 as unacceptable, so around 30 percent. So say out of 5 visas one and a half will be fails. Trouble this year is we went in with three visas only, one which counted as a fail, and then topped up mid season with two with another a fail, which brings season fail to 40 percent.

[Mr MO]

2 hours ago, Le Hack said:

Heart/City has had 44 visas play for us. It's difficult to rate each one. Do you rate them on games played, well then players like say Koren and Tadic were probably acceptable and players like say Fred and Windbichler weren't. If you rate on expected output in the games played then maybe they weren't but players like Mifsud and Colazo were fails. But simply on games played bearing in mind some came for only half a season and also accepting injury as a fail then you would probably rate 13-14 as unacceptable, so around 30 percent. So say out of 5 visas one and a half will be fails. Trouble this year is we went in with three visas only, one which counted as a fail, and then topped up mid season with two with another a fail, which brings season fail to 40 percent.

When doing such comparison we need to make a clear distinction between  visa marquee/ designated and normal visa squad players. 

For me with an open cheque book and our scouting resources, the failing of visa marquee and designated players are just unacceptable. These players can win you more silverware and they must be of a level to be in the starting eleven.

Edited June 1, 2022 by Mr MO

[NewConvert]

3 hours ago, Mr MO said:

When doing such comparison we need to make a clear distinction between  visa marquee/ designated and normal visa squad players. 

For me with an open cheque book and our scouting resources, the failing of visa marquee and designated players are just unacceptable. These players can win you more silverware and they must be of a level to be in the starting eleven.

To me whether a player fails or succeeds does not automatically mean that it is unacceptable - disappointing, yes but not necessarily unacceptable. No player is guaranteed to succeed in a new team, after all Zlatan Ibrahimovic failed at Barcelona when Pep Guardiola was coaching them. Personally, I feel that sometimes the club has not had a clear game plan that enables a better selection of players. Mifsud suffered because he was a lone striker that had to receive long balls (Aloisi still uses this basis but at least he has taller players) and as we have seen lately (much to my disgust) bombing balls at JMac or Nabbout does not get much return.

[Mr MO]

2 hours ago, NewConvert said:

To me whether a player fails or succeeds does not automatically mean that it is unacceptable - disappointing, yes but not necessarily unacceptable. No player is guaranteed to succeed in a new team, after all Zlatan Ibrahimovic failed at Barcelona when Pep Guardiola was coaching them. Personally, I feel that sometimes the club has not had a clear game plan that enables a better selection of players. Mifsud suffered because he was a lone striker that had to receive long balls (Aloisi still uses this basis but at least he has taller players) and as we have seen lately (much to my disgust) bombing balls at JMac or Nabbout does not get much return.

I’m more talking about the high earners here, not just any visa player.

Zlatan did get game time and Barcelona could deal with this fall out, did you see who else was playing that Barcelona team at the time?  

I find it such a contrast comparing a non capped league with a capped league.  

Given the standard of the league in Australia, marquee and designated players can suddenly be deemed not good enough, I don’t understand that we just accept that this is a hit and miss risk? This shouldn’t even be an debate they need to play and should be recruited at that level. If not, it’s an unacceptable recruitment failure. It cost you this season already.

Melbourne Heart didn’t have the funds we have…To put it in CFG perspective, Haaland is earning $650k per week!

Edited June 1, 2022 by Mr MO

[NewConvert]

50 minutes ago, Mr MO said:

I’m more talking about the high earners here, not just any visa player.

Zlatan did get game time and Barcelona could deal with this fall out, did you see who else was playing that Barcelona team at the time?  

I find it such a contrast comparing a non capped league with a capped league.  

Given the standard of the league in Australia, marquee and designated players can suddenly be deemed not good enough, I don’t understand that we just accept that this is a hit and miss risk? This shouldn’t even be an debate they need to play and should be recruited at that level. If not, it’s an unacceptable recruitment failure. It cost you this season already.

Melbourne Heart didn’t have the funds we have…To put it in CFG perspective, Haaland is earning $650k per week!

My point was that no one can guarantee that a player will be successful - no matter which club (and corresponding resources) it is. The better coaches and recruiters have fewer misses. So I can be disappointed but the threshold for unacceptable is different. So if we have for two or three seasons 4 visa players on the bench, then the recruiter needs to be replaced. In the case of Pucciarelli and Endoh, they have not been given enough game time, so it is hard to quantify them. Couple with the doubts around PK, then the problem may not be the players.

And I do agree that for a team to be successful all visa players must be on the park every game. Although I do dream of the day when there are no visa players on the park and the team is successful.

[Mr MO]

9 minutes ago, NewConvert said:

My point was that no one can guarantee that a player will be successful - no matter which club (and corresponding resources) it is. The better coaches and recruiters have fewer misses. So I can be disappointed but the threshold for unacceptable is different. So if we have for two or three seasons 4 visa players on the bench, then the recruiter needs to be replaced. In the case of Pucciarelli and Endoh, they have not been given enough game time, so it is hard to quantify them. Couple with the doubts around PK, then the problem may not be the players.

And I do agree that for a team to be successful all visa players must be on the park every game. Although I do dream of the day when there are no visa players on the park and the team is successful.

Of course, there are no guarantees in life besides death and taxes.

But yeah what I find unacceptable is perhaps just dissappinting to you. 

I can't comment too much on Endoh, I don't think he is on much money anyway and he just a squad player.

Now look at Pucciarelli, I say PK has a personal issue with him, others say nah man he's just not good enough. Now that latter is unacceptable for a club with our resources in my IMO and if we don't take such matter seriously we will never shed the Melbourne Heart attitude and become a force. It goes without saying that Adelaide, MV and WU all had their squad in order and we failed to beat any of them.

I wonder that FFA thinks of giving the club a salary cap exemption for the purpose to raise the quality of the league then find out we just don't play the guy not based on league games but just because he doesn't run hard enough at training or due a personal dispute.

 

[n i k o]

22 minutes ago, NewConvert said:

My point was that no one can guarantee that a player will be successful - no matter which club (and corresponding resources) it is. The better coaches and recruiters have fewer misses. So I can be disappointed but the threshold for unacceptable is different. So if we have for two or three seasons 4 visa players on the bench, then the recruiter needs to be replaced. In the case of Pucciarelli and Endoh, they have not been given enough game time, so it is hard to quantify them. Couple with the doubts around PK, then the problem may not be the players.

And I do agree that for a team to be successful all visa players must be on the park every game. Although I do dream of the day when there are no visa players on the park and the team is successful.

 

1 hour ago, Mr MO said:

I’m more talking about the high earners here, not just any visa player.

Zlatan did get game time and Barcelona could deal with this fall out, did you see who else was playing that Barcelona team at the time?  

I find it such a contrast comparing a non capped league with a capped league.  

Given the standard of the league in Australia, marquee and designated players can suddenly be deemed not good enough, I don’t understand that we just accept that this is a hit and miss risk? This shouldn’t even be an debate they need to play and should be recruited at that level. If not, it’s an unacceptable recruitment failure. It cost you this season already.

Melbourne Heart didn’t have the funds we have…To put it in CFG perspective, Haaland is earning $650k per week!

I think you're both right in what you say. However are we talking about a specific player within our squad? Or in general terms? 

@NewConvert I would say successful is one thing and you are right there are no guarantees. However, one thing I beleive we should be gauranteed (outside of injury or personal reasons) is that our designated player is played when he's fit and healthy. And if he is not it should be deemed unnaceptable regardless of who is at fault. 

I find it pretty unacceptable that not he has he not been played and furthermore the lack of coverage on it from both the club and the media. If he played and he isnt good enough it would be dissapointing, not unacceptable. 

[NewConvert]

9 hours ago, Mr MO said:

Of course, there are no guarantees in life besides death and taxes.

But yeah what I find unacceptable is perhaps just dissappinting to you. 

I can't comment too much on Endoh, I don't think he is on much money anyway and he just a squad player.

Now look at Pucciarelli, I say PK has a personal issue with him, others say nah man he's just not good enough. Now that latter is unacceptable for a club with our resources in my IMO and if we don't take such matter seriously we will never shed the Melbourne Heart attitude and become a force. It goes without saying that Adelaide, MV and WU all had their squad in order and we failed to beat any of them.

I wonder that FFA thinks of giving the club a salary cap exemption for the purpose to raise the quality of the league then find out we just don't play the guy not based on league games but just because he doesn't run hard enough at training or due a personal dispute.

 

The Pucciarelli situation is bewildering. He is not getting played and there is no indication why. When Leckie was out of form, PK had no issues in giving him game time. And on this I agree - this is totally unacceptable, at least the fact that there is no explanation why is unacceptable. Ditto Endoh.

9 hours ago, n i k o said:

 

I think you're both right in what you say. However are we talking about a specific player within our squad? Or in general terms? 

@NewConvert I would say successful is one thing and you are right there are no guarantees. However, one thing I beleive we should be gauranteed (outside of injury or personal reasons) is that our designated player is played when he's fit and healthy. And if he is not it should be deemed unnaceptable regardless of who is at fault. 

I find it pretty unacceptable that not he has he not been played and furthermore the lack of coverage on it from both the club and the media. If he played and he isnt good enough it would be dissapointing, not unacceptable. 

Both. Pucciarelli and Endoh in specifics but generally the role that visa players have within a team.

For me the lack of explanation is unacceptable and that is a club issue.

As for the FFA, who knows whether they are getting an explanation.

Maybe the way forward is to have contracts that allow clubs an exit clause if the players don't fit. How it would be written I would leave it to the legal experts.

[Le Hack]

You would have thought the club would have learners to be more transparent after the debacle with Fornaroli. Major reason why people get jack of a club when decisions that defy logic are unexplained

[jw1739]

IMO the problem is that opinion is very much subjective, and with signings it's largely based on expectations. In addition, a particular fan's opinion takes account of what style of footballer they like or don't like. For guidance I would turn to what I think is, or was, the gist of the PFA's approach to visa players - that is they need to show something over and above what can be expected from Australian players. What fans do is take that further and anyone who exceeds expectation is regarded as a "good signing" and anyone who is below expectation is a "poor signing" and a "waste of a visa space."

It's pretty easy to classify some - players such as Bruno, Schenkeveld, McCormack and de Laet would be in the "good" basket for many City fans, whereas players such as Gray, Meeuwis, Hughes would likewise probably be in the "poor" basket. IMO the difficulty arises with players somewhere in the middle, such as Colazo and Budzinski. I mention these two because I actually liked both as players - Budzinski had 17 appearances for 5 goals, and Colazo 22 for 4 and battled a punctured eardrum while here. Colazo in particular, but IMO he suffered because he had the "Boca" tag around his neck.

Another interesting one for me is Jenkinson. I happen to think that he's a "waste of a visa place," because I can't see that he offers any more than Galloway, and is not even in the now departed Atkinson's class.

I agree that some signings are just not going to work out for a variety of reasons. Should the club give an explanation of what's going on? I don't think it's in CFG's DNA to be transparent. The "inside coverage" of the trip to Bangkok was good, but otherwise this season it's been poor IMO. People depart the club, or just disappear, without anything ever being said. Idrus Abdulahi is/was a perfect example. The GK coach another.

There are always going to be tensions within any club. But I have to say that this apparent "freezing out" of players is real kindergarten sandpit stuff and is doing nothing to help the club engage with its supporters.

[bt50]

34 minutes ago, Le Hack said:

You would have thought the club would have learners to be more transparent after the debacle with Fornaroli. Major reason why people get jack of a club when decisions that defy logic are unexplained

I think you'll probably find that its more of a case of the club having a bit of a policy of not publically throwing players under the bus when they cock up or do the wrong thing.

[n i k o]

28 minutes ago, bt50 said:

I think you'll probably find that its more of a case of the club having a bit of a policy of not publically throwing players under the bus when they cock up or do the wrong thing.

For sure. And on that, I believe the club should withhold specifics of any given situation that may arise that contains issues regarding players, management relationships etc. Its not that we the members don't deserve to know the particulars or will use the information for our own benefit but more to protect the club from the broader aleague community. 

If lets say there has been a falling out between Pucci and PK, we don't need the club to divulge that this is the case. But at least say something about the player we signed, even if it is very general. He has after all missed the whole aleague season. At the very least we as invested ticket holders deserve that much. 

[jw1739]

10 minutes ago, n i k o said:

For sure. And on that, I believe the club should withhold specifics of any given situation that may arise that contains issues regarding players, management relationships etc. Its not that we the members don't deserve to know the particulars or will use the information for our own benefit but more to protect the club from the broader aleague community. 

If lets say there has been a falling out between Pucci and PK, we don't need the club to divulge that this is the case. But at least say something about the player we signed, even if it is very general. He has after all missed the whole aleague season. At the very least we as invested ticket holders deserve that much. 

Other than Jonathan Bru (MV), are there any other examples of an A-League club "not playing" a visa signing, or indeed any signing?

[MHFC-FAN]

57 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

Other than Jonathan Bru (MV), are there any other examples of an A-League club "not playing" a visa signing, or indeed any signing?

Hmm it kinda feels like we are the biggest culprit of freezing out/benching players for unknown reasons... 

[jw1739]

36 minutes ago, MHFC-FAN said:

Hmm it kinda feels like we are the biggest culprit of freezing out/benching players for unknown reasons... 

A list of possibly Colosimo, Sorensen, Birighitti, Fornaroli, Kilkenny,Tsubaki, Pucci and Endoh...? Even Tim Cahill left because he wasn't getting enough game time.

[malloy]

16 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

A list of possibly Colosimo, Sorensen, Birighitti, Fornaroli, Kilkenny,Tsubaki, Pucci and Endoh...? Even Tim Cahill left because he wasn't getting enough game time.

Didn't Heffernan falloyt with JVS too?

I think Beauchamp was another, wasn't he the one that was benched and we kept playing Matt Thompson in midfield.