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jw1739
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4 minutes ago, Mr MO said:

Now this is an interesting list, if accurate.

https://www.totalsportal.com/money/contacts/melbourne-city-players-salaries/amp/

Reis, JMAC and Florin by far the highest earners.

I'd read with a pinch of salt. Idrus Abdulahi hasn't been sighted for a long time.

BTW, shopping update. I knew it - new dress. Ah well, out with the viagra I suppose, otherwise no return on the investment...

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6 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

I'd read with a pinch of salt. Idrus Abdulahi hasn't been sighted for a long time.

BTW, shopping update. I knew it - new dress. Ah well, out with the viagra I suppose, otherwise no return on the investment...

It’s the wages as published at the start of the season by the way.

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28 minutes ago, Mr MO said:

It’s the wages as published at the start of the season by the way.

Well, I'm not as confident as you are. It mentions Alec Mills and Abdulahi, both of who are no longer with the club. The author also changes currencies in the final paragraph and doesn't get the conversion factor anywhere near correct unless the dollars quoted are US dollars.

I looked at the website - where are these guy based?

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8 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

Well, I'm not as confident as you are. It mentions Alec Mills and Abdulahi, both of who are no longer with the club. The author also changes currencies in the final paragraph and doesn't get the conversion factor anywhere near correct unless the dollars quoted are US dollars.

I looked at the website - where are these guy based?

It doesn’t really matter what website you look at, all using the same figures. Just Google Melbourne City salary cap.

Perhaps Mills and Idris were still with the club late last year.
 

 

Edited by Mr MO
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One of the things that irritate me about sport is how a coach/manager decides the team. So with regards to Pucci and Endoh, it is difficult to assess whether they should get game time. It was also noted early in the season that PK just did not use the substitutes, which means that the bench players don't get game time so when an injury occurs then they rarely meet expectations. We know that Cola and Tilio can play but they have not had much of a look in this season. If Cola was getting 15 minutes every game then he would be a far more effective player than what he currently is. And as I noted that Leckie was given game time purely on reputation alone (well at least I hope that it was reputation). Dropping Tilio and Bos after being awarded MOTM is just plain wrong.

So is the squad stronger? no. Is it worse? on results you would have to say that it is slightly worse but it does not help when players are not being given meaningful game time.

Biggest weakness - coaching. Second biggest weakness - require a decent second goal keeper to provide competition to Glover.

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With Atkinson and Metcalfe gone you will also miss out on a fair bit of salary cap concessions for your homegrown players. Perhaps Griffiths retires too with respect to the loyalty concession. 

This would mean proper recruitment and good use of the salary cap is only becoming more important until more youth players become genuine starters again. Next season the salary cap cannot afford the games PK is playing this season.

Edited by Mr MO
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24 minutes ago, Mr MO said:

It doesn’t really matter what website you look at, all using the same figures. Just Google Melbourne City salary cap.

Perhaps Mills and Idris were still with the club late last year.

I'll bet they're are all taken from the same source.

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1 hour ago, NewConvert said:

One of the things that irritate me about sport is how a coach/manager decides the team. So with regards to Pucci and Endoh, it is difficult to assess whether they should get game time. It was also noted early in the season that PK just did not use the substitutes, which means that the bench players don't get game time so when an injury occurs then they rarely meet expectations. We know that Cola and Tilio can play but they have not had much of a look in this season. If Cola was getting 15 minutes every game then he would be a far more effective player than what he currently is. And as I noted that Leckie was given game time purely on reputation alone (well at least I hope that it was reputation). Dropping Tilio and Bos after being awarded MOTM is just plain wrong.

So is the squad stronger? no. Is it worse? on results you would have to say that it is slightly worse but it does not help when players are not being given meaningful game time.

Biggest weakness - coaching. Second biggest weakness - require a decent second goal keeper to provide competition to Glover.

Okay how should a coach/manager decide a team? Genuine question. 

My opinion is that a coach ultimately works on trust. Who does he think will be able to do what he wants. 

Obviously personality and behaviour influences but at the end of the day I reackon it comes down to trust. 

He doesn’t trust Pucciarelli. 

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35 minutes ago, Jovan said:

Okay how should a coach/manager decide a team? Genuine question. 

My opinion is that a coach ultimately works on trust. Who does he think will be able to do what he wants. 

Obviously personality and behaviour influences but at the end of the day I reackon it comes down to trust. 

He doesn’t trust Pucciarelli. 

He has a personal issue with him and is too stubborn and embarrassed to play him now, all to save face and avoid more questions. It’s just easier just to finish the season without him.

I do agree with the trust part but even players you aren’t sure about would get some play time, when the game allows it of course and we had games like that. After all, he’s your personal recruit and you actually never seen him play at A-League level for longer than 10 minutes. Everybody deserves a chance right?

It’s an absolute expensive fuck up and cannot be repeated in a salary capped league.

But who knows, he might play against City United!

Edited by Mr MO
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33 minutes ago, Jovan said:

Okay how should a coach/manager decide a team? Genuine question. 

My opinion is that a coach ultimately works on trust. Who does he think will be able to do what he wants. 

Obviously personality and behaviour influences but at the end of the day I reackon it comes down to trust. 

He doesn’t trust Pucciarelli. 

Dispense with the Pucci issue first - he has his own thread - I still cannot get past this rave bio from Michael Petrillo. https://melbournecityfc.com.au/news/melbourne-city-signs-italian-attacking-midfielder-manuel-pucciarelli Something has gone terribly wrong from there.

I'm not close enough to a professional club to know how coaches pick teams. When I played (VERY low level) the selection committee selected who it thought was most capable of filling the particular position out of who was available to play. There were no substitutes anyway, so if your name wasn't on the team sheet you didn't play. Of course it was a very different game at a very different level!

My impression is that our coach is a slave to a formula, and he is not going to budge from it unless forced to do so. He reminds me so much of the horse in "Animal Farm" (was it Boxer or Clover?) whose solution to everything was "I must work harder." I happen to think that that is not a good way to go. I was watching some old stuff last night featuring Dennis Bergkamp and Matt Le Tissier - those guys didn't play to a formula, they played from the heart. Play to a formula and you will become stale and predictable. We are so predictable now - pump it long for Nabbout or Tilio to run on to and hope that the cross from there actually finds someone in the box. Last season we were better than that, and at times were weaving delightful patterns that no-one could predict.

An impression is also forming in my mind that our coach does not brook anyone who disagrees with him. Perhaps he never wanted Tsubaki (last season), Pucci or Endoh in the first place. The rave bios come from Petrillo. I'm also mindful that our GK coach left unceremoniously early this season, and another player, Lesiotis, got a big welcome back from Petrillo only to have seemingly disappeared again.

I haven't answered the question. But I don't think that the squad is as good as last season, and I don't think that the coaching is anywhere near last season.

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9 hours ago, Jovan said:

Okay how should a coach/manager decide a team? Genuine question. 

My opinion is that a coach ultimately works on trust. Who does he think will be able to do what he wants. 

Obviously personality and behaviour influences but at the end of the day I reackon it comes down to trust. 

He doesn’t trust Pucciarelli. 

A good friend of mine was very close to the Essendon Football Club during the Sheedy era. It isn't only about trust (I don't think he ever mentioned trust) but there are players that coaches fall in love with and others they come quickly to despise. It is an emotional response which has little basis on the player's capability, attitude or output. Some of the components is that the player plays the way the coach use to play. PK ought to be reminded that he never played first division football whilst in Europe.

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3 hours ago, NewConvert said:

A good friend of mine was very close to the Essendon Football Club during the Sheedy era. It isn't only about trust (I don't think he ever mentioned trust) but there are players that coaches fall in love with and others they come quickly to despise. It is an emotional response which has little basis on the player's capability, attitude or output. Some of the components is that the player plays the way the coach use to play. PK ought to be reminded that he never played first division football whilst in Europe.

Hate to correct you, but in 2003-04 and 2004-05 PK did make 64 appearances for Heart of Midlothian in the (now defunct) Scottish Premier League, at the time the senior league in Scotland.

He was no bunny as a player.

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1 hour ago, jw1739 said:

Hate to correct you, but in 2003-04 and 2004-05 PK did make 64 appearances for Heart of Midlothian in the (now defunct) Scottish Premier League, at the time the senior league in Scotland.

He was no bunny as a player.

He also played a couple internationals, during a time when we were not dog shit.

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43 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

Any views on scouting an Asian GK for next season? We've got to do something about our current situation.

Certainly need to look at bringing in a proper number 1 or at least some good competition for Glover if they will continue with him as number 1.

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4 hours ago, jw1739 said:

Any views on scouting an Asian GK for next season? We've got to do something about our current situation.

Depends what we can get as an aussie. If we could get Izzo, or we can get a genuine number 1 from another aleague team, I'd go for them. And then look at using the Asian player (assuming we have ACL again next season) in midfield to replace Metcalfe, there are plenty that are very good technically that could do a very good job. Just finding the right one 

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1 hour ago, neio said:

Depends what we can get as an aussie. If we could get Izzo, or we can get a genuine number 1 from another aleague team, I'd go for them. And then look at using the Asian player (assuming we have ACL again next season) in midfield to replace Metcalfe, there are plenty that are very good technically that could do a very good job. Just finding the right one 

As it stands now there will be no ACL next season.

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14 minutes ago, Mr MO said:

If you don’t win the league or win the FFA cup you won’t qualify for the ACL is my understanding.

From next season I believe we only have 1 automatic qualifier and then theirs 2 other teams have to play in play in games to get into the main pool?

So I'm assuming the three teams that get those opportunities have to win one of the following:

-FFA cup

-A-league regular season

-A-league final

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41 minutes ago, kingofhearts said:

From next season I believe we only have 1 automatic qualifier and then theirs 2 other teams have to play in play in games to get into the main pool?

So I'm assuming the three teams that get those opportunities have to win one of the following:

-FFA cup

-A-league regular season

-A-league final

This is my understanding so correct me.

Winner of the FFA cup will get an ACL qualification spot. League winner is direct ACL placement. 

And I think the 3rd Asia spot will go to the runner up of the regular season but only for the Asian Cup competition.

All this depends on the Australian clubs ranking.

Edited by Mr MO
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9 minutes ago, Mr MO said:

This is my understanding so correct me.

Winner of the FF cup will get an ACL qualification spot. League winner direct placement. 

And I think the 3rd Asia spot will go to the runner up of the regular season but only for the Asian Cup competition.

All this depends on the Australian clubs ranking.

No correction needed. The above is correct.

A-League clubs and fans need to understand that going forward our finals system is irrelevant as far as the AFC is concerned.

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So if I read the squad table correctly at the end of this season the following players contract finish: Matt Sutton (GK), Rostyn Griffiths (D), Carl Jenkinson (D), Connor Metcalfe (M), Anthony Lesiotis (M), Tsubaka Endoh (M), Stefan Colakovski (F), and Raphael Borges Rodrigues (F). Metcalfe has already announced that he is going to Germany so in that sense he does not count. For me Endoh, Cola and RBR are worth keeping on the books for one more season if they wish to stay. I presume that Sutton won't be offered an extension and the club is looking at bringing in a new keeper.

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1 hour ago, NewConvert said:

So if I read the squad table correctly at the end of this season the following players contract finish: Matt Sutton (GK), Rostyn Griffiths (D), Carl Jenkinson (D), Connor Metcalfe (M), Anthony Lesiotis (M), Tsubaka Endoh (M), Stefan Colakovski (F), and Raphael Borges Rodrigues (F). Metcalfe has already announced that he is going to Germany so in that sense he does not count. For me Endoh, Cola and RBR are worth keeping on the books for one more season if they wish to stay. I presume that Sutton won't be offered an extension and the club is looking at bringing in a new keeper.

Yes, I think you are correct. The only question I have is whether Lesiotis is still with us because I have not seen his name mentioned for some time and the club website cannot be relied upon.

I agree on your proposed contract extensions. Definitely need a quality GK and much more in midfield. I don't think we can rely on Florin too much longer at 33, and we must replace Metcalfe.

The Academy will continue to produce quality local players. None of our marquee/designated players are coming off-contract, and I don't think our visa players are outstanding. I don't think we can do much about that for another season, but I'd like to see us get some real quality in those categories and also recruit in east Asia for the future.

Organisationally we have to sort out and actually do something about the size of the A-League, linkages with the "second division"/NPL if any, the youth league, and getting meaningful competition for "reserve" players. IMO this is the root cause of the "stagnation" in our football.

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30 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

Yes, I think you are correct. The only question I have is whether Lesiotis is still with us because I have not seen his name mentioned for some time and the club website cannot be relied upon.

I agree on your proposed contract extensions. Definitely need a quality GK and much more in midfield. I don't think we can rely on Florin too much longer at 33, and we must replace Metcalfe.

The Academy will continue to produce quality local players. None of our marquee/designated players are coming off-contract, and I don't think our visa players are outstanding. I don't think we can do much about that for another season, but I'd like to see us get some real quality in those categories and also recruit in east Asia for the future.

Organisationally we have to sort out and actually do something about the size of the A-League, linkages with the "second division"/NPL if any, the youth league, and getting meaningful competition for "reserve" players. IMO this is the root cause of the "stagnation" in our football.

I wonder if Tando Velaphi can be brought back. He is 35 playing in the local leagues. As a back up, he would be good. I would prefer Birighitti but he is unlikely to return.

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1 hour ago, jw1739 said:

Yes, I think you are correct. The only question I have is whether Lesiotis is still with us because I have not seen his name mentioned for some time and the club website cannot be relied upon.

I agree on your proposed contract extensions. Definitely need a quality GK and much more in midfield. I don't think we can rely on Florin too much longer at 33, and we must replace Metcalfe.

The Academy will continue to produce quality local players. None of our marquee/designated players are coming off-contract, and I don't think our visa players are outstanding. I don't think we can do much about that for another season, but I'd like to see us get some real quality in those categories and also recruit in east Asia for the future.

Organisationally we have to sort out and actually do something about the size of the A-League, linkages with the "second division"/NPL if any, the youth league, and getting meaningful competition for "reserve" players. IMO this is the root cause of the "stagnation" in our football.

Hey next season we have a second designated spot to waste! 

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I tend to feel that the "alternative" is a better way of thinking about the squad than "back-up." Maybe semantics, but In the case of the GK IMO you need two keepers who are real challengers to each other, and the "back-ups" are the Scholarship players. At the moment no-one is really a challenge to Tom Glover, and I don't think that's healthy. Scholarship players should really only be in the senior squad if they are capable of playing senior football when required, IMO we have shown that we do have those players (such as Bos, Valadon, Raph). Appreciate that there are salary cap issues to negotiate but AFAIK we can have six Scholarship players outside the cap provided they are not paid above a certain level. Even if they are so paid, then it is only the excess that counts towards the cap.

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On 22/04/2022 at 3:48 PM, jw1739 said:

Yes, I think you are correct. The only question I have is whether Lesiotis is still with us because I have not seen his name mentioned for some time and the club website cannot be relied upon.

I agree on your proposed contract extensions. Definitely need a quality GK and much more in midfield. I don't think we can rely on Florin too much longer at 33, and we must replace Metcalfe.

The Academy will continue to produce quality local players. None of our marquee/designated players are coming off-contract, and I don't think our visa players are outstanding. I don't think we can do much about that for another season, but I'd like to see us get some real quality in those categories and also recruit in east Asia for the future.

Organisationally we have to sort out and actually do something about the size of the A-League, linkages with the "second division"/NPL if any, the youth league, and getting meaningful competition for "reserve" players. IMO this is the root cause of the "stagnation" in our football.

The club's social media pages have posted a happy birthday message to Lesiotis today. So seems he is still with the club.

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  • 2 weeks later...

One of the problems I see going forward is that we don't have a lot of room to manoeuvre for next season. Many of our more highly paid player - or thought to be - are contracted for next season.

Players coming out of contract are:
Sutton,
Griffiths
Jenkinson (V, L)
Metcalfe
Lesiotis (S)
Endoh (V, L)
Colakovski
Raphael (S)

There can't be a lot under the cap to play with.

 

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54 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

One of the problems I see going forward is that we don't have a lot of room to manoeuvre for next season. Many of our more highly paid player - or thought to be - are contracted for next season.

Players coming out of contract are:
Sutton,
Griffiths
Jenkinson (V, L)
Metcalfe
Lesiotis (S)
Endoh (V, L)
Colakovski
Raphael (S)

There can't be a lot under the cap to play with.

 

The squad needs some serious investment in midfield, a goalkeeper and some competition for JMAC. We will extend with Rafa.

I do expect some mutual terminations.

If I remember correctly we will have a second designated player spot as well.

Edited by Mr MO
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1 hour ago, jw1739 said:

One of the problems I see going forward is that we don't have a lot of room to manoeuvre for next season. Many of our more highly paid player - or thought to be - are contracted for next season.

Players coming out of contract are:
Sutton,
Griffiths
Jenkinson (V, L)
Metcalfe
Lesiotis (S)
Endoh (V, L)
Colakovski
Raphael (S)

There can't be a lot under the cap to play with.

 

Most of those will, I suspect, be going. Raphael is probably the exception. Otherwise broadly agree with @Mr MO, the money needs to go into a decent keeper and midfield. And a few mutual terminations would help. Not least our invisible Italian...

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Well Jenkinson and Endoh are on loan, so that would clear some space. Sutton would not be on much. Whatever Metcalfe is on that would be freed up as well. Griffioths is likely to be on some bigger cash but time is catching up with him. So for me Rfa and Cola should be kept but given PK's philosophy of no rotation and no replacing out of form players, why would they stay?

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