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jw1739
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On 05/12/2020 at 8:33 PM, jw1739 said:

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I think the club needs to review its approach to scholarship contracts.

Other clubs have signed older, more experienced players rather than really young prospects, however talented. The older player approach means that at least physically, a player can come in and be competitive gradually building on their game over time. From the list above our Scholarship players are 17 YO or younger. 2019 signings were Borges Rodrigues, Dukuly and Stokes are all 16 years old, Abdulahi was 15 that numbers (maybe someone else knows who they are?) they are most likely with the youth due to age and inexperience. This keeps our depth at 26 or so senior players – all within the cap. Already we can see that with a couple of injuries Nabbout and Atkinson we seem stretched.

Other teams have selected older players who can come in and do a job thereby extending the squad depth, all paid for outside the cap.

For example:

Sydney – 5 players 18 – 21 (includes Niewenhoff and Swibel)

Jets – Yengi 20, Armson 22.

CCM – Alou Kuol and Aiden Casella both 19

WSW – numerous 18 – 21 YO..

(i know there are more - maybe someone else can elaborate on this list!)

The A league rules state

 “Scholarship Players – Each Club can contract up to 9 under 23 Australian Players on the national minimum wage. Any payments above the national minimum wage to these Players are included in the Club’s Salary Cap;

Perhaps we should be looking at the local NPL (like other teams have) and getting a couple of NPL 20 something’s to give us the depth we need. 3 players would be great but as I have noted I don’t know how many players in the youth (and for how long) that city have awarded Scholarships contracts.

Keen on others thoughts on Scholarship Contract’s and their use.

FMD i think our success with younger players particularly when they come from interstate or circumstances where they can't be with family has not worked for us. think Iannucci, Roberts, Dukuly. By contrast an older local player would be more emotionally ready for the additional 'non football' demands and would be closer to the family support when needed. we can still be focusing on contracting the best u18's etc but just use 5 -6 Scholarship deals, leaving the remainder for possibly revealing an overlooked local gem 18 - 22 who is plying their trade in NPL seniors . Extended benches and tight game turnarounds and ACL comniitments means the players would see minutes off the bench so that we could rest the first XI players when required. 

PS: Yes, I recognise the short sightedness of MC loaning out Najjar and Najjarine, but i feel that injuries and squad depth will hurt us this year. 

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Dukuly, Ianucci (and I think Abdulahi - no-one can confirm where he is) have all gone recently. Najjarine and Najjar are out on loan. We just don't keep players long enough and give them first-team opportunities. I don't blame them for going - a footballer's career is pretty short.

IIRC, only Atkinson has made it to the starting line-up on a semi-regular basis - and he would be at Perth if not for the virus.

And I don't see anything in some of the older players that we sign that I can't see in the younger players we've let go.

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3 hours ago, Imtellingyou said:

That would be the right approach.  However, CFG has its own plan. Trying to unearth another Mooy (transfer) from the junior players. 

Yes that’s the idea but over all these seasons only Atkinson has kind of made it. So are we systematically doing something wrong here?

I can agree with the comments that we aren’t giving many of these players enough game time in their actual positions. The problem is of course not having seasons aligned with grassroots and a non existing reserve league.

For some reason the club are far more patient with the established underperforming players, this cutting in the young players game time.

Edited by Mr MO
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3 hours ago, jw1739 said:

Dukuly, Ianucci (and I think Abdulahi - no-one can confirm where he is) have all gone recently. Najjarine and Najjar are out on loan. We just don't keep players long enough and give them first-team opportunities. I don't blame them for going - a footballer's career is pretty short.

IIRC, only Atkinson has made it to the starting line-up on a semi-regular basis - and he would be at Perth if not for the virus.

And I don't see anything in some of the older players that we sign that I can't see in the younger players we've let go.

I liked the look of Abdulahi when he played that in game against CCM for us.

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18 minutes ago, Mr MO said:

He’s such a loyal player Curtis!

He'll turn 28 in March so this contract extension will take him through until he's 31. One more contract extension after that might see him with us until the end of his career. I wonder whether we're looking at a future captain?

Edited by jw1739
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  • 3 weeks later...
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I would really like to see that we give players like Colakovski and Tilio more game time, more than 5 minutes I mean. There has been plenty opportunities in recent weeks in my opinion.

I understand that Noone and Nabbout get the starting tick but surely Tilio and Cola aren’t that bad. Next minute they walk out of the door and we keep wondering why they are so good at other clubs.

I can’t see how else we believe that talent needs to be developed.

Edited by Mr MO
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I think we have a transfer window coming up? I doubt we are looking but I’m always hopeful on squad improvements.

So we got Tsubaki only for the ACL regulations? He looks technically sound but perhaps a bit timid. What’s the point of this loan if he’s not getting game time here from his employer and development point of view.

Edited by Mr MO
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1 hour ago, Mr MO said:

I think we have a transfer window coming up? I doubt we are looking but I’m always hopeful on squad improvements.

So we got Tsubaki only for the ACL regulations? He looks technically sound but perhaps a bit timid. What’s the point of this loan if he’s not getting game time here from his employer and development point of view.

I’m not sure why he’s here to be honest.

Unless ive missed something is no better than Cola or Tullio, so why would we play him?  
Can’t imagine he’s too thrilled by the situation either.

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2 minutes ago, Shahanga said:

I’m not sure why he’s here to be honest.

Unless ive missed something is no better than Cola or Tullio, so why would we play him?  
Can’t imagine he’s too thrilled by the situation either.

Yeah I don’t know about him. I guess it was a gamble just like any other signing. He’s young and used to a different style of play. Definitely question marks over his physical strength and ability to ride tackles and win the ball. No issues with work rate and technique but ours is a physically tough league with a lot of two way running. If we lose our NT players though he might come in handy and get a few more opportunities as well as being available for the ACL. 

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3 minutes ago, Shahanga said:

I’m not sure why he’s here to be honest.

Unless ive missed something is no better than Cola or Tullio, so why would we play him?  
Can’t imagine he’s too thrilled by the situation either.

IMO it's another one of these inexplicable decisions that seems to me to indicate a serious disconnect somewhere in our management structure. As it stands the situation is just a waste of everyone's time. Colakovski and Tilio are putting visible pressure on Nabbout and Berenguer respectively - keeping them honest - but Tsubaki isn't pushing for a starting place as far as I can see.

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1 hour ago, jw1739 said:

IMO it's another one of these inexplicable decisions that seems to me to indicate a serious disconnect somewhere in our management structure. As it stands the situation is just a waste of everyone's time. Colakovski and Tilio are putting visible pressure on Nabbout and Berenguer respectively - keeping them honest - but Tsubaki isn't pushing for a starting place as far as I can see.

I'd give him more time, foreigners as a rule take a while to adjust and being young he has that as an extra obstacle. 

I don't see it at as waste per say, and if he is good enough then so be it, all he is actually doing is taking a squad place.

FWIW I actually think the boy can play, and strength or physicality is often overated.

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1 hour ago, jw1739 said:

IMO it's another one of these inexplicable decisions that seems to me to indicate a serious disconnect somewhere in our management structure. As it stands the situation is just a waste of everyone's time. Colakovski and Tilio are putting visible pressure on Nabbout and Berenguer respectively - keeping them honest - but Tsubaki isn't pushing for a starting place as far as I can see.

These are strong words. It would suggest to me that there is existing issue harming the club as a whole. I don't think that decision behind the signing or his performances to date suggest there is anything seriously worrying to that extent. 

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7 minutes ago, Jovan said:

I'd give him more time, foreigners as a rule take a while to adjust and being young he has that as an extra obstacle. 

I don't see it at as waste per say, and if he is good enough then so be it, all he is actually doing is taking a squad place.

FWIW I actually think the boy can play, and strength or physicality is often overated.

What I don’t understand from a CFG talent management point of view; why loan him out to an overseas team without guaranteed playing time? How’s that supposed to aid the development of young players, he would be better staying in the lower Japan leagues and get game time. You would think our scouting machine should be able to judge this. Now it’s looking like an overseas schooltrip for life experience, haha.

Another aspect is that we only have limited visa spots.

Can he play for us in our NPL team?

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20 minutes ago, Mr MO said:

What I don’t understand from a CFG talent management point of view; why loan him out to an overseas team without guaranteed playing time? How’s that supposed to aid the development of young players, he would be better staying in the lower Japan leagues and get game time. You would think our scouting machine should be able to judge this. Now it’s looking like an overseas schooltrip for life experience, haha.

Another aspect is that we only have limited visa spots.

Can he play for us in our NPL team?

I would argue that is exactly what he is gaining, living in a foreign country, no guaranteed start and having to battle for a spot, if he survives CFG would have a genuine prospect. 

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14 minutes ago, Jovan said:

I would argue that is exactly what he is gaining, living in a foreign country, no guaranteed start and having to battle for a spot, if he survives CFG would have a genuine prospect. 

With a cap on both squad numbers and salary, and a limit on visa players, I don't think that's the way to go.

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4 hours ago, Mr MO said:

What I don’t understand from a CFG talent management point of view; why loan him out to an overseas team without guaranteed playing time? How’s that supposed to aid the development of young players, he would be better staying in the lower Japan leagues and get game time. You would think our scouting machine should be able to judge this. Now it’s looking like an overseas schooltrip for life experience, haha.

Another aspect is that we only have limited visa spots.

Can he play for us in our NPL team?

One thing for certain is there is no guarantees that you will remain a starting or subbing player when signing up for a football team unless you're a star player. He certainly got a bit of game time early in the season. Opportunities were there for him to prove his worth. Then he would have ongoing opportunity when training to prove himself to the coach to be included in some way for the next game. That's the gamble footballers take to improve and bump their career to another level. 

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3 hours ago, n i k o said:

One thing for certain is there is no guarantees that you will remain a starting or subbing player when signing up for a football team unless you're a star player. He certainly got a bit of game time early in the season. Opportunities were there for him to prove his worth. Then he would have ongoing opportunity when training to prove himself to the coach to be included in some way for the next game. That's the gamble footballers take to improve and bump their career to another level. 

Yes I agree about no guarantee for starting berth that’s football! But we aren’t talking about a seasoned footballer here, one who makes such well waited decisions about his career.

He’s a 20yo who needs to play every week in order to develop and make sure he is still employed by 30. CFG come across as an organisation who helps developing footballers on and off field. In this case I struggle to see the advantages for both parties. He’s not playing, was always a gamble and we are essentially wasting visa spot. I can only think that he’s relatively cheap and we meet the ACL criteria.

Arzani in same boat...

Edited by Mr MO
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1 hour ago, Mr MO said:

Yes I agree about no guarantee for starting berth that’s football! But we aren’t talking about a seasoned footballer here, one who makes such well waited decisions about his career.

He’s a 20yo who needs to play every week in order to develop and make sure he is still employed by 30. CFG come across as an organisation who helps developing footballers on and off field. In this case I struggle to see the advantages for both parties. He’s not playing, was always a gamble and we are essentially wasting visa spot. I can only think that he’s relatively cheap and we meet the ACL criteria.

Arzani in same boat...

I'm a bit confused about your point, is it the players fault for coming or is the clubs and as an extension CFG for bringing him over.

To me it's a win win, if he fails and doesn't make it he goes home Japan with a season overseas and resumes where he was, if he does make it and cements a spot then his options open up. From the clubs point of veiw they are looking at bringing in a talented kid that potentially could be a decent player and if he succeeds then that may encourage others to try, we had that other guy from Tottenham almost similar scenario. Whats the cost? Obviously cap space which wouldn't be much, but that amount for a foreign visa wouldn't get you much and would almost be a mid 30s type, and also gives us an extra squad player for a few ACL games.

I honestly don't see this kid as wasting a visa spot, the only thing he is ultimately doing is keeping out a mid twenties journeyman that should be playing at NPL level. 

 

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41 minutes ago, Jovan said:

I'm a bit confused about your point, is it the players fault for coming or is the clubs and as an extension CFG for bringing him over.

 

Haha this is exactly my point, I’m confused about it.....it makes more sense now that you write it out for me.

You say it’s a win win but if things aren’t playing out like right now its a loss loss?

I guess my question is: we have limited squad places, talented local youngsters are leaving our club every year, should we really be nurturing an overseas 20yo over local Australian talent? Is this what visa spots are meant for? 

I haven’t made up my mind just thinking out loud here.

Do we know if he can make minutes in our NPL squad btw?

Edited by Mr MO
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42 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

I didn't have him on our list for this season.

I can't find much on him, did he play much for us? He was with us for several years I believe. Signed at 15 and by 18 he's gone. I'm always interested in the back stories.

https://www.melbournecityfc.com.au/news/melbourne-city-add-two-talented-youngsters-scholarship-roster?fbclid=IwAR09JSh50TXeNlpee6eAAQmLWc-yVDa_EEQcqb1WcmE5hYAbXNu3AmE4FTs

 

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