hardsy Posted October 29, 2013 Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 This is puzzling me, how are we so bad away from home? Here are some of my thoughts. http://www.fromthestandsal.com/2013/10/30/melbourne-heart-home-away/ If anyone is interested in joining the @_FTSAL team shoot me an email enquiries@fromthestandsal.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mus-28 Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 Answer: New Coach /thread 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadete Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 Home and Away form whats the answer? More of Maddy doing her Surf Life Saving Training on the Beach. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 Home and Away form whats the answer? More of Maddy doing her Surf Life Saving Training on the Beach. maybe we could enlist her as assistant physic, but only for away games Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DutchPride Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 Different philosophy; At home we're obviously more positive, pushed higher up and willing to push men forward. While away we play an at the moment awful counter attacking style where we don't press (which is fucking retarded) and end up getting the ball deep in our own half, meaning we have to run 70-80 meters which is near impossible to rely on. IF Aloisi would diagonal press, and push higher up meaning we are on the halfway line/in our own half when we get the ball back more times than not we'd obviously be a lot better off. Our home style is really encouraging as it was last year, obviously we aren't going to be able to replicate that fully away from home, although Aloisi's counter attacking style is awful at the moment, he has the right idea because we have the players for the system but it needs major altercations - at the moment it's the same as last season and it got us nowhere and will continue that way because we can't rely on getting the ball back so deep and running it all the way up the pitch with at most 5 players. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeartFc Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 I'd say parking the bus when we're 1-0 down is probably part of problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadete Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 Different philosophy; At home we're obviously more positive, pushed higher up and willing to push men forward. While away we play an at the moment awful counter attacking style where we don't press (which is fucking retarded) and end up getting the ball deep in our own half, meaning we have to run 70-80 meters which is near impossible to rely on. IF Aloisi would diagonal press, and push higher up meaning we are on the halfway line/in our own half when we get the ball back more times than not we'd obviously be a lot better off. Our home style is really encouraging as it was last year, obviously we aren't going to be able to replicate that fully away from home, although Aloisi's counter attacking style is awful at the moment, he has the right idea because we have the players for the system but it needs major altercations - at the moment it's the same as last season and it got us nowhere and will continue that way because we can't rely on getting the ball back so deep and running it all the way up the pitch with at most 5 players. Ok, So whose your favourite River Boy? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toogood18 Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 In all seriousness we go interstate looking to draw. We don't go out to win games, we go out with a plan to avoid getting smashed 5-0. That is the main problem, at home we play like we want to win, but away from home we try to play out dour 0-0 draws and it hasn't worked for us at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post jw1739 Posted October 30, 2013 Popular Post Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 I don't see any real difference between home and away TBH. Our "style" of football has degenerated to the same low level for both. We have gone 8 league games and a number of pre-season matches against A-League clubs without a win. We sit far too deep, allowing the bulk of the play to be just outside or even in our penalty area (hence the number of penalties that we concede) and allow the pace and form of the game to be dictated by the opposition. The recent home game against CCM demonstrated that to perfection. 2-0 up with 30 minutes to go and we invited CCM back into the game - truly pathetic. The only difference that I see between home and away is that because when they are at home the opposition - whoever they are - make a better job of outplaying us for the usual reasons - in front of their own supporters, don't have to travel, etc. This malaise actually started in the second half of season 2, ironically at the time when we were in second place in the table. JvS went defensive for the second half of the season, and we just hung on for 6th place. Results have deteriorated under JA, and at the same time the club has seemingly abandoned its two basic ideals - those of developing and promoting young Australian talent, and possession football with a "European ethos." Negative and defensive football produces a negative and defensive mindset. Football is a very simple game - score more goals than the opposition and you win the game; do that quite often and you win the league. Whilst there is a time and place for being defensive, over the longer term it will not win any silverware. We have become so defensive that we have scored but 4 goals in our last 8 league games, and our highest individual goalscorer remains Eli Babalj, who barely played at all for us after season 2. To me the answer is pretty clear. If the coach won't change then the club has to change the coach. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sash Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 (edited) I don't see any real difference between home and away TBH. Our "style" of football has degenerated to the same low level for both. We have gone 8 league games and a number of pre-season matches against A-League clubs without a win. We sit far too deep, allowing the bulk of the play to be just outside or even in our penalty area (hence the number of penalties that we concede) and allow the pace and form of the game to be dictated by the opposition. The recent home game against CCM demonstrated that to perfection. 2-0 up with 30 minutes to go and we invited CCM back into the game - truly pathetic. The only difference that I see between home and away is that because when they are at home the opposition - whoever they are - make a better job of outplaying us for the usual reasons - in front of their own supporters, don't have to travel, etc. This malaise actually started in the second half of season 2, ironically at the time when we were in second place in the table. JvS went defensive for the second half of the season, and we just hung on for 6th place. Results have deteriorated under JA, and at the same time the club has seemingly abandoned its two basic ideals - those of developing and promoting young Australian talent, and possession football with a "European ethos." Negative and defensive football produces a negative and defensive mindset. Football is a very simple game - score more goals than the opposition and you win the game; do that quite often and you win the league. Whilst there is a time and place for being defensive, over the longer term it will not win any silverware. We have become so defensive that we have scored but 4 goals in our last 8 league games, and our highest individual goalscorer remains Eli Babalj, who barely played at all for us after season 2. To me the answer is pretty clear. If the coach won't change then the club has to change the coach. I'm not trying to sound like a smart arse, but I don't get the impression you watch many of our away games. I reckon there was a pretty big difference between the CCM and Perth games. Two weeks ago we had speed and sharpness in attack, created good chances, less long balls, and the two penalties weren't a reflection of Central Coast gaining an overwhelming ascendancy. Sometimes shit happens. I remember spectators around me after the game were happy despite the disappointment. Andn we had a few good performances at home last year - against Brisbane, Adelaide, Perth and Sydney off the top of my head. There's a massive gulf between those games and every single away game over the last two seasons. A simple comparison between points gained at home and away last season suggests something's going on. Edited October 30, 2013 by Sash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommykins Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 Different philosophy; At home we're obviously more positive, pushed higher up and willing to push men forward. While away we play an at the moment awful counter attacking style where we don't press (which is fucking retarded) and end up getting the ball deep in our own half, meaning we have to run 70-80 meters which is near impossible to rely on. IF Aloisi would diagonal press, and push higher up meaning we are on the halfway line/in our own half when we get the ball back more times than not we'd obviously be a lot better off. Our home style is really encouraging as it was last year, obviously we aren't going to be able to replicate that fully away from home, although Aloisi's counter attacking style is awful at the moment, he has the right idea because we have the players for the system but it needs major altercations - at the moment it's the same as last season and it got us nowhere and will continue that way because we can't rely on getting the ball back so deep and running it all the way up the pitch with at most 5 players. Ok, So whose your favourite River Boy? I actually had to google this because I wasn't sure if I was missing something obvious or important. No on both counts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DutchPride Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 All except Casey. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rellum Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 I don't see any real difference between home and away TBH. Our "style" of football has degenerated to the same low level for both. We have gone 8 league games and a number of pre-season matches against A-League clubs without a win. We sit far too deep, allowing the bulk of the play to be just outside or even in our penalty area (hence the number of penalties that we concede) and allow the pace and form of the game to be dictated by the opposition. The recent home game against CCM demonstrated that to perfection. 2-0 up with 30 minutes to go and we invited CCM back into the game - truly pathetic. The only difference that I see between home and away is that because when they are at home the opposition - whoever they are - make a better job of outplaying us for the usual reasons - in front of their own supporters, don't have to travel, etc. This malaise actually started in the second half of season 2, ironically at the time when we were in second place in the table. JvS went defensive for the second half of the season, and we just hung on for 6th place. Results have deteriorated under JA, and at the same time the club has seemingly abandoned its two basic ideals - those of developing and promoting young Australian talent, and possession football with a "European ethos." Negative and defensive football produces a negative and defensive mindset. Football is a very simple game - score more goals than the opposition and you win the game; do that quite often and you win the league. Whilst there is a time and place for being defensive, over the longer term it will not win any silverware. We have become so defensive that we have scored but 4 goals in our last 8 league games, and our highest individual goalscorer remains Eli Babalj, who barely played at all for us after season 2. To me the answer is pretty clear. If the coach won't change then the club has to change the coach. I'm not trying to sound like a smart arse, but I don't get the impression you watch many of our away games. I reckon there was a pretty big difference between the CCM and Perth games. Two weeks ago we had speed and sharpness in attack, created good chances, less long balls, and the two penalties weren't a reflection of Central Coast gaining an overwhelming ascendancy. Sometimes shit happens. I remember spectators around me after the game were happy despite the disappointment. Andn we had a few good performances at home last year - against Brisbane, Adelaide, Perth and Sydney off the top of my head. There's a massive gulf between those games and every single away game over the last two seasons. A simple comparison between points gained at home and away last season suggests something's going on. Sorry I am with jw1739 here. We may look better in attack at home but to me that is more down to visiting teams sitting back than our own change of plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 I agree with both opinions, we look better at home because we are allowed to impose ourselves for greater portions of the game. Away it would never occur to us to impose ourselves on other teams. Kewell and Engelaar will theoretically give us this ability depending on how they are used. Our existing players would also give us this a degree of this ability of they were used differently. They may not be at the level of Kewell or Engelaar but they are at the level of their HAL opponents and better than many. We have a top team list of players but play as a VPL standard team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 I think that if people would listen to the Robbie Wielaert interview they'll hear just exactly what we are saying above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Hack Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 Agree need more pressure on the ball carriers. How about going in with a 3-5-2 formation to place more players in midfield and run with Mifsud and Willo up front, might make us more adventurous? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadete Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 Agree need more pressure on the ball carriers. How about going in with a 3-5-2 formation to place more players in midfield and run with Mifsud and Willo up front, might make us more adventurous? I was also thinking if this counter attacking style of football we now play under JA would not be better suited to a different formation. The Glory were very successful as a Counter Attacking side at the end of the NSL for example with two speedy Strikers up front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 (edited) Agree need more pressure on the ball carriers. How about going in with a 3-5-2 formation to place more players in midfield and run with Mifsud and Willo up front, might make us more adventurous? The formation is a nominal static representation of a dynamic process. It's less about the formation than it is about the movement of players in that formation. For instance if our fullbacks attack and overlap then a 4-3-3 becomes a 2-5-3 or 2-3-5 in attack, and we currently become a 4-4-2 or 4-5-1 in defence. This is more the problem as it leaves our number 9 unsupported and a long way from goal. Edited October 31, 2013 by belaguttman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sash Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 Different philosophy; At home we're obviously more positive, pushed higher up and willing to push men forward. While away we play an at the moment awful counter attacking style where we don't press (which is fucking retarded) and end up getting the ball deep in our own half, meaning we have to run 70-80 meters which is near impossible to rely on. IF Aloisi would diagonal press, and push higher up meaning we are on the halfway line/in our own half when we get the ball back more times than not we'd obviously be a lot better off. Our home style is really encouraging as it was last year, obviously we aren't going to be able to replicate that fully away from home, although Aloisi's counter attacking style is awful at the moment, he has the right idea because we have the players for the system but it needs major altercations - at the moment it's the same as last season and it got us nowhere and will continue that way because we can't rely on getting the ball back so deep and running it all the way up the pitch with at most 5 players. Look, I think this is a top post. It addresses the issue and gives a logical solution. I understand people don't like the gameplan as a whole and that's fine. But given that this is how we're playing at the moment I think the issue here is what to do about this problem: Outside of Melbourne, we got 1 point (1 draw, 11 losses) last season and scored 5 goals in 12 games at a rate of 0.4 per game. In Melbourne, we got 26 points (8 wins, 2 draws, 5 losses) and scored 26 goals in 15 games at a rate of 1.7 per game. But you don't need statistics to see that there's a different mentality between home and away and that we've been unable to find a way forward when away and haven't been able to put any pressure at all on the opposition. Sure we haven't always been very good in Melbourne either, but rarely that dire. Perth was just another example of the same thing - another truly horrible loss after 2 reasonably encouraging games. Theoretically, a compact defence and counter attack should be effective when playing away from home when it's done well. But we're not doing it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiro Kompiro Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 analyse all you want, the elephant's name is Aloisi. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 analyse all you want, the elephant's name is Aloisi. Kiro, I'm prepared to give him a few more games, but I expect that by then I'll be agreeing with you. I'm prepared to be, and hope to proven wrong on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torn Asunder Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 (edited) We have the players and the talent to beat anyone in this league, home or away ... and we have some fantastic young up and coming players that really could tear up the comp. But as a team we play with an apparent sole focus on defensive structure and therefore with no adventure or creative attacking freedom, and dare I say it, we don't play to win and we dont play with heart. Who knows, maybe if trust was given to some of the young players and if we actually played to win, and like it really genuinely meant something to wear the red and white, and if our team culture was to be winners, and that it is not good enough to lose without having a crack, then maybe things would turn around. I know new members who are slamming the club right now for our putrid efforts. Change is needed, and members need to let their voices be heard. Accepting this if it continues will destroy careers and define our club for years and that is not good enough. End of rant. Edited October 31, 2013 by Torn Asunder 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southerner Posted November 6, 2013 Report Share Posted November 6, 2013 I don't see any real difference between home and away TBH. Our "style" of football has degenerated to the same low level for both. We have gone 8 league games and a number of pre-season matches against A-League clubs without a win. We sit far too deep, allowing the bulk of the play to be just outside or even in our penalty area (hence the number of penalties that we concede) and allow the pace and form of the game to be dictated by the opposition. The recent home game against CCM demonstrated that to perfection. 2-0 up with 30 minutes to go and we invited CCM back into the game - truly pathetic. The only difference that I see between home and away is that because when they are at home the opposition - whoever they are - make a better job of outplaying us for the usual reasons - in front of their own supporters, don't have to travel, etc. This malaise actually started in the second half of season 2, ironically at the time when we were in second place in the table. JvS went defensive for the second half of the season, and we just hung on for 6th place. Results have deteriorated under JA, and at the same time the club has seemingly abandoned its two basic ideals - those of developing and promoting young Australian talent, and possession football with a "European ethos." Negative and defensive football produces a negative and defensive mindset. Football is a very simple game - score more goals than the opposition and you win the game; do that quite often and you win the league. Whilst there is a time and place for being defensive, over the longer term it will not win any silverware. We have become so defensive that we have scored but 4 goals in our last 8 league games, and our highest individual goalscorer remains Eli Babalj, who barely played at all for us after season 2. To me the answer is pretty clear. If the coach won't change then the club has to change the coach. +1, the club has lost its way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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