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Patrick Kisnorbo - most swol manager in the league


Jimmy
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3 minutes ago, Mr MO said:

In fairness all those deficiencies were very well present among most of us last season too - we barely made subs or tactical adjustments either. We put a good string of games together in a weakened league after poor start and lost momentum towards the end, in those games every second chance was nearly goal. I think, that is what is in his mind, stick to the process and just work harder – these goals will come, hence I don’t need to sub or adjust as it worked last season.

Yes, you have point - Pep doesn't always sub either but the rotates the starting line up, the latter we don't do.

Guardiola has a very different squad from ours. Pretty much top-class players*2 in every position so he can rotate the starting line-up. We don't have that luxury, so what we should be doing is using our substitutes.

IIRC even the great Mombaerts wasn't too crash hot at making subs either.

But I don't see this being just a question of substitutes. IMO there are serious questions about the starting line-up.

Finally it's not as if the club did not know PK's attributes and weaknesses before appointing him and then renewing his contract. He's been here some considerable time.

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I think Kisnorbo is fine, and as shown last season can certainly get results, but his squad management and in game adjustments are both in need of major improvement. 

We have a very complicated and involved system, and really should be performing much better than we have thus far. We are woefully out of form atm, and while there are plenty of excuses (mostly covid related) he has to be responsible for the solution. Last season we were awesome, and from a personnel issue we are facing issues:

-Glover is in his worst form yet with us and has been directly responsible for the Adelaide result and arguably a major reason the Victory game did not go our way (and one other maybe that I'm forgetting). 

-Maclaren's golden run with us has finally ended, he was unstoppable prior to this season but so far has constantly been caught on the back foot, has not gelled with teammates and has failed to take his chances. 

-Noone leaving and Leckie replacing was a no brainer, but for whatever reason Leckie has given us nothing. 

-Berenguer has been pretty good for the most part, but is not as good as Luna and we are still yet to see someone put their hand up as being good enough in this role. 

They are all excuses and problems that PK has to be responsible in fixing, but I think it's fair to say we have played pretty well this season considering most of the above are key players who are not performing as hoped.

The problem is vastly exacerbated by PK's unwillingness to bring in players who deserve it (Atkinson was just about MOM in every game he started and could barely get more than 25 minutes off the bench), (Tilio has been impactful every game and has proven himself at this level as of last season), and in many cases he hasn't even given potential/actual A-League quality players even any gametime to make a case for their inclusion (Colakovski, Pucciarelli the obvious two with 3 minutes gametime between them despite the players in their exact positions all being out of form and needing pushing). 

He can manage at this level; we were dominant last season, and he has had a lot of success at a lot of levels (albeit with excellent support every time). This is probably his biggest challenge yet, and so far his strategy of doing the same thing but better is not working. I don't think his position should be questioned at all, but his ability to learn from new experiences and improve himself is something that needs to be proven now and fast. 

 

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2 hours ago, bt50 said:

Was great to see somewhat of a club legend steer us to our first major titles, but imo he's not much of a coach. Too much of a football idealogue that puts how he sees the game should be played, over what will make the team the hardest to beat.
Tactical inflexibility showing its hand big time this season.

TBF, every coach is going to have strengths and deficiencies, PK will be no different, the coaching team, like the team on the park needs to be balanced. PK is the head coach but perhaps the issue is that the coaching team is not as strong as it was last season.

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  • 3 weeks later...

https://www.ftbl.com.au/news/english-club-poised-to-hand-a-league-coach-golden-opportunity-575443

 

Quote

Sources in the UK claim the ex-Hearts, Leicester City and Leeds United defender’s A-League Men accomplishments have grabbed the attention of the unnamed club who are willing to take a calculated risk and fulfil Kisnorbo’s dream of joining Australia’s select band of overseas-based coaching pilgrims.

 

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54 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

I wouldn't be too fussed if he left. 

Depends on who comes in... Kisnorbo definitely seems too rigid in his style, but he brought us trophies. I shudder at the thought of recruiting another Joyce.

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Yeah better the devil you know.

Aside from Mombaerts I would think Kisnorbo is the best manager we have ever had, and I am doubtful we would be able to find much better. Maybe with a whole season to think about it, but for all his faults there's maybe 3 managers that spring to mind as maybe realistic that are as good or better (Arnold, Popovic, Talay). 

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I think the key to our coaching position and indeed the whole coaching team is that we're really setting ourselves up as a feeder club. Therefore IMO we need coaches who can relate well to young players, not only in terms of their football but also in terms of their personal development.

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3 hours ago, jw1739 said:

I wouldn't be too fussed if he left. 

We've gone with other managers for years with nothing to show for it. As much as we all feel Kisnorbo isnt ticking the boxes this season I feel much more confident trusting him than an unknown. For the simple reason that he brought us silverware last season.

Regardless of opinions about how much help he had, he is still the head coach. I doubt CFG would sit around and let the head coach do less than the majority of the heavy lifting when it comes to managing this team. And I doubt the players would respect/accept or listen to a head coach that was second in the pecking order (over the assistant coach) and further to this, be premiers, with such a dynamic within the team.

So in terms of wanting him to be moved on, be careful what you wish for I say. In terms of him moving on because of another opportunity, well not much we can do there.

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1 hour ago, n i k o said:

We've gone with other managers for years with nothing to show for it. As much as we all feel Kisnorbo isnt ticking the boxes this season I feel much more confident trusting him than an unknown. For the simple reason that he brought us silverware last season.

Regardless of opinions about how much help he had, he is still the head coach. I doubt CFG would sit around and let the head coach do less than the majority of the heavy lifting when it comes to managing this team. And I doubt the players would respect/accept or listen to a head coach that was second in the pecking order (over the assistant coach) and further to this, be premiers, with such a dynamic within the team.

So in terms of wanting him to be moved on, be careful what you wish for I say. In terms of him moving on because of another opportunity, well not much we can do there.

You are right to an extent. Last season a lot of things clicked and we should note that the other team in the final, Sydney FC, are not doing much better.

And barring an accident the manager will always do the heavy lifting. But like in any corporation having good assistants and assistants that you listen to means a better balanced outcome. One of the doubts expressed in this forum has been whether PK is listening/working with the assistants and whether the assistants are up to the same calibre remains to be seen.

And of course if PK gets an opportunity and wants to take it, then we cannot do much. Which brings on the other point, who replaces PK and how much trust you can have in them.

 

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1 hour ago, NewConvert said:

You are right to an extent. Last season a lot of things clicked and we should note that the other team in the final, Sydney FC, are not doing much better.

And barring an accident the manager will always do the heavy lifting. But like in any corporation having good assistants and assistants that you listen to means a better balanced outcome. One of the doubts expressed in this forum has been whether PK is listening/working with the assistants and whether the assistants are up to the same calibre remains to be seen.

And of course if PK gets an opportunity and wants to take it, then we cannot do much. Which brings on the other point, who replaces PK and how much trust you can have in them.

 

It is hard right now to choose who would replace him, another international coach? Des? maybe someone like Arthur Pappas?

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15 hours ago, NewConvert said:

You are right to an extent. Last season a lot of things clicked and we should note that the other team in the final, Sydney FC, are not doing much better.

And barring an accident the manager will always do the heavy lifting. But like in any corporation having good assistants and assistants that you listen to means a better balanced outcome. One of the doubts expressed in this forum has been whether PK is listening/working with the assistants and whether the assistants are up to the same calibre remains to be seen.

And of course if PK gets an opportunity and wants to take it, then we cannot do much. Which brings on the other point, who replaces PK and how much trust you can have in them.

 

So I'm not sure who would be responsible for the choice of assistant coaches. The club would most likely be involved in the process but PK would surely have his own say for who he wants by his side day in day out. 

Maybe we're over complicating the situation. It could be that we are simply unsure how to deal with being the hunted. I've seen this so often through my previous work in sport. So much easier having less expectation. Later, everyone expects what you delivered. Can lead to over thinking and anxiety when performing. I'll admit I don't have as much knowledge about it at a team based sport level but I know even 1-2% difference in the shift of mindset can sway performances greatly. In our case perhaps our manager is also learning to deal with this as well. 

Edited by n i k o
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1 hour ago, n i k o said:

So I'm not sure who would be responsible for the choice of assistant coaches. The club would most likely be involved in the process but PK would surely have his own say for who he wants by his side day in day out. 

Maybe we're over complicating the situation. It could be that we are simply unsure how to deal with being the hunted. I've seen this so often through my previous work in sport. So much easier having less expectation. Later, everyone expects what you delivered. Can lead to over thinking and anxiety when performing. I'll admit I don't have as much knowledge about it at a team based sport level but I know even 1-2% difference in the shift of mindset can sway performances greatly. In our case perhaps our manager is also learning to deal with this as well. 

For me this clubs long term really needs a manager capable of running the first team and spearheading the academy. 

PK is “one of the boys” in appearance and mannerism, who is very confusing on the byline - screaming and shouting doesn’t help when the team needs minor tactical adjustments. I wish him the best if he goes overseas, I’m just not convinced at this time in his career and outside the CFG environment. It will be a good test.

My feeling is also that the playing group is not convinced and then when the individual performances are low, doubt creeps in everybody’s mind.

The foundations laid out by the organisation and individual performances won us the league last season and perhaps any manager coming straight after EM would have done well as long they continued the same philosophy and style around that playing group which PK did.

Now this season is different with a stronger league, key player replacements of Luna and Noone and no experienced senior support staff.

Edited by Mr MO
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22 minutes ago, Mr MO said:

For me this clubs long term really needs a manager capable of running the first team and spearheading the academy. 

PK is “one of the boys” in appearance and mannerism, who is very confusing on the byline - screaming and shouting doesn’t help when the team needs minor tactical adjustments. I wish him the best if he goes overseas, I’m just not convinced at this time in his career and outside the CFG environment. It will be a good test.

My feeling is also that the playing group is not convinced and then when the individual performances are low, doubt creeps in everybody’s mind.

The foundations laid out by the organisation and individual performances won us the league last season and perhaps any manager coming straight after EM would have done well as long they continued the same philosophy and style around that playing group which PK did.

Now this season is different with a stronger league, key player replacements of Luna and Noone and no experienced senior support staff.

I'll have to pull you up on that claim that any manager could come in and win us the league last season after EM departure. Our players were/are aleague standard without doubt. They all performed well as a unit and some were better than most in the league (eg. Maclaren) but not one of them you could say could jump into a league overseas of much higher quality to claim they are world beaters and the reason why we won the league. 

Secondly, it is damn hard to 'simply' continue what EM left behind. But as you mentioned PK did it. 

I agree the league is stronger, and our replacements haven't had the same impact as the two players you mentioned. Although on paper they should. 

What do you feel the players aren't convinced about? PK, stylevof play, support staff...? 

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2 hours ago, n i k o said:

So I'm not sure who would be responsible for the choice of assistant coaches. The club would most likely be involved in the process but PK would surely have his own say for who he wants by his side day in day out. 

Maybe we're over complicating the situation. It could be that we are simply unsure how to deal with being the hunted. I've seen this so often through my previous work in sport. So much easier having less expectation. Later, everyone expects what you delivered. Can lead to over thinking and anxiety when performing. I'll admit I don't have as much knowledge about it at a team based sport level but I know even 1-2% difference in the shift of mindset can sway performances greatly. In our case perhaps our manager is also learning to deal with this as well. 

IMO this is a very good point. Eight years as an CFG club, a double now under our belts, and as fans we're no longer satisfied with just being dear old Heart, but expect that we're the best both on and off the pitch every time and all the time. But that's what you get if you are CFG and take over an existing club. The "big clubs" in every competition face that same expectation.

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53 minutes ago, n i k o said:

I'll have to pull you up on that claim that any manager could come in and win us the league last season after EM departure. Our players were/are aleague standard without doubt. They all performed well as a unit and some were better than most in the league (eg. Maclaren) but not one of them you could say could jump into a league overseas of much higher quality to claim they are world beaters and the reason why we won the league. 

Secondly, it is damn hard to 'simply' continue what EM left behind. But as you mentioned PK did it. 

I agree the league is stronger, and our replacements haven't had the same impact as the two players you mentioned. Although on paper they should. 

What do you feel the players aren't convinced about? PK, stylevof play, support staff...? 

You know I’m a big critic of course, hard to please and not easily convinced.

I guess we have to remember that PK is a child of this organisation and it was fairly easy to continue. I guess I’m downplaying a little the claims here that PK is already one of the great Australian managers and closely to be named behind Staijic, Arnold and Popovic. He has simple not stood on his own legs yet, last year was a full year inheritance - this season I’m yet to see his own influence. To date he’s failed to incorporate his hand picked new recruits and all I hear is “work harder and stick to the process” when questioned about tactics or adjustments.

Next home game go and pay attention to the byline and the players reaction, then you get what I mean!

I think long term PK leaving is a win win. He can test himself and MCFC can appoint a different category manager for the club.

Edited by Mr MO
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Fully agree with this.  Watch him on the sidelines.  He is completely staying in the moment and literally playing the game as it happens from the sidelines.  He constantly tells the players what to do (to little effect in all honesty) ... the bench players looked pissed and disinterested.  When they do go and warm up, its half hearted.  They often finish their warm up routine and then just meander around.

Even when the game is in the balance, or its time when they should be coming on, they don't look interested because they've lost hope that they have any chance of coming on.

Anytime a journo has actually put him under the grill a little (they dont do this much as he intimidates them by his mannerisms), he doesn't really answer in a convincing way

Edited by Torn Asunder
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32 minutes ago, Mr MO said:

You know I’m a big critic of course, hard to please and not easily convinced.

I guess we have to remember that PK is a child of this organisation and it was fairly easy to continue. I guess I’m downplaying a little the claims here that PK is already one of the great Australian managers and closely to be named behind Staijic, Arnold and Popovic. He has simple not stood on his own legs yet, last year was a full year inheritance - this season I’m yet to see his own influence. To date he’s failed to incorporate his hand picked new recruits and all I hear is “work harder and stick to the process” when questioned about tactics or adjustments.

Next home game go and pay attention to the byline and the players reaction, then you get what I mean!

I think long term PK leaving is a win win. He can test himself and MCFC can appoint a different category manager for the club.

 

12 minutes ago, Torn Asunder said:

Fully agree with this.  Watch him on the sidelines.  He is completely staying in the moment and literally playing the game as it happens from the sidelines.  He constantly tells the players what to do (to little effect in all honesty) ... the bench players looked pissed and disinterested.  When they do go and warm up, its half hearted.  They often finish their warm up routine and then just meander around.

Even when the game is in the balance, or its time when they should be coming on, they don't look interested because they've lost hope that they have any chance of coming on.

Anytime a journo has actually put him under the grill a little (they dont do this much as he intimidates them by his mannerisms), he doesn't really answer in a convincing way

Interesting take, I will try get a better look at the goings on on the sideline. I'm a bit fat away to hear or notice the smaller details. 

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12 minutes ago, Torn Asunder said:

Fully agree with this.  Watch him on the sidelines.  He is completely staying in the moment and literally playing the game as it happens from the sidelines.  He constantly tells the players what to do (to little effect in all honesty) ...

Haha perhaps no coincidence we won the league when he sat on the esky with a broken leg!

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Our journos in this country are so piss weak. It's the same with politicians, health professionals and the pandemic - no-one is ever really put under the pump and asked the hard questions about how we're managing it. I'm longing to hear direct questions put to PK such as - "Why aren't you starting our designated player Manuel Pucciarelli?" and keep hammering until there is a satisfactory answer. Same with Cola. Same with substitutions. And so on and so on.

Edited by jw1739
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59 minutes ago, NewConvert said:

There is no way an EPL side would appoint someone from a non-European league. Hell not even from the Danish or Greek leagues would be in the frame. The most likely candidate to coach an EPL side remains Ange P. As his CV is now building to the next level.

@NewConvert It's EFL rather than EPL, i.e. the rumour refers to a club in the Championship, League 1 or League 2.

Edited by jw1739
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1 hour ago, NewConvert said:

There is no way an EPL side would appoint someone from a non-European league. Hell not even from the Danish or Greek leagues would be in the frame. The most likely candidate to coach an EPL side remains Ange P. As his CV is now building to the next level.

Did you miss that documentary where Ted Lasso was appointed coach of AFC Richmond?😀

 

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17 minutes ago, n i k o said:

I watched PKs post match interview from last game, it was like nails down a chalkboard. And as mentioned earlier I would have liked them to press him further on our Italian import. 

They pressed him more in the pre match conference today 

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