Ambition

[Torn Asunder]

Its time to get serious.

With free to air TV coming, this club needs to stop being unambitious and borderline amateur.

The market is there to be taken. The Visitors vs Liverpool at the MCG sold out in record time and most probably will be on 7 or 10 live. What an opportunity missed, and out of 90k at the stadium and from the millions watching on the box how many neutrals may become tard supporters?

With this many people into football why can't we get bigger crowds?

We need a marquee, we need a full competitive squad, we need a more professional set up all round (staffing numbers, coaching, training facilities). For instance players like RG / Madashi should be quietly sown up contractually and just stay - period.

If not we will get left behind and we will never catch up...

What should be the clubs ambition? What fundamental changes, both physical and philosophical, are required?

[Damiano]

A complete overhaul of the team, tactics, even the name should be looked at

[Defibrillator]

We need a coach. Period.

[Melburnian]

The club has long lacked ambition.

I am yet to see any evidence of this changing. We have other agendas to winning and it will cost is so much support.

At least we break even and the owners keep their money. Self sufficient football club and all that jazz.

[Tony999]

Win a friggen game outside of Melbourne for crying out loud!

[HEARTinator]

Not sure if there'll be 90k but something like 60-70 k for sure. So, that's up to 30k more than have turned up to our local derbies. That's 30k potential recruits to the HAL and to Heart. Mostly these are EPL followers who haven't turned their attention to the HAL seriously enough to turn up to matches except probably when ADP or Heskey were in town. We can look to grass roots support in the long term but in the immediate future there are a hell of a lot of football people just waiting to be engaged. A quality 'star' signing (plus good supporting players) us can give us a big boost. It would also signal that we are a serious contender for silverware and a serious football club to rival the Vuctree.

[Ando]

The Liverpool match crowd will be 50% exchange students from SE Asia who've never been to a domestic game in their life.

[Tommykins]

A few things.

 

The club has seemingly had a lack of ambition on a short term scale, however it does have a vision on a long term scale.

 

Given that the two other unsupported expansion teams didn't survive through 3 years, the club wanted to make sure that it got through the initial period. They are expanding the training grounds, getting better facilities, hunting better grounds.

 

When Liverpool come out for a friendly, they want to maximise the appeal they have on a larger scale, they look for the largest venue and the biggest team, Melbourne Heart never really stood a chance on that front.

 

This 'we'll get left behind' rubbish needs to stop, MV had won championships, held attendance records and had the city to itself for years, it would have been ridiculous if we were anywhere near them in terms of members or crowd pulling power yet.

[Kiro Kompiro]

IMO the rot set in the second season. JVS went to a more pragmatic style- one trillion gazillion back passes to Bolton and all that. The crowds declined and stagnated, the owners got nervous about doing their dosh, so we went on a fire sale of our best talent, did not make an effort to buy out Madaschi when it was clear how different a team we were with him. The on-field vision was lost. Fortunatley Victory self imploded and we dodged a bullet.

Aloisi's appointment at the expense of the coach groomed to take over was a continuation of this loss of direction at the expense of breaking even.

People who think the club is not at a cross roads,are kidding themselves. Victory IMO would be an assured grand finalist this year withuout injuries to Traore and Finkler. They still may get there and then its anyone's game. They will better again next season after Postecoglou has had another pre-season with them. If some damned good recruiting doesn't happen and we have a repeat of this season we will be irrelevant.

Edited April 12, 2013 by Kiro Kompiro

[Ando]

I'd hate to become the VVV Venlo of the A-League, but then I guess Meeuwis would be well at home. 

[jw1739]

I wouldn't overplay the Visitors-Liverpool thing too far, because people always turn up for these sorts of matches. But I agree, the staging of such a match does show ambition.

 

Our ambition every season must be to win every game we play, whatever that game happens to be. Our ambition every season must be to be Premiers, Champions, and FFA Cup-winners (apparently Gallop says starting in 2014). And to win the ACL when we participate in it. Nothing less. I never want to hear the term 'make finals' again as far as Melbourne Heart is concerned - 'making finals' is an embodiment of mediocrity.

 

To do this the first thing that has to change is the mind-set of everyone connected with the club. This can only come top down, and the agents for this change have to be PS and SM.

 

We need an international marquee to lift the excitement index. Every single signing needs to be directed at assembling and maintaining a highly competitive squad where every individual is fighting for a place in the team and collectively the players give their all for the shirt. We need to be ruthless in player management - no more duds FFS. No more re-signing players who have not delivered.

 

In terms of the back-room people - everyone employed by Melbourne Heart needs to have the ambition of 'getting it right first time.' FFS no more surveys or hyperlinks that don't work. Everyone needs to demonstrate a high level of professionalism.

 

A good number of the membership ideas that have been floated on this Forum need to be given serious consideration by MHFC.

 

Many good steps have been taken. I don't agree with any re-branding of the club - to do that would simply undo the good things we've done and take us back to square one. We may be second fiddle for a while yet, but I agree with TA's basic premise that unless we show demonstrable ambition we will never be a serious candidate for first violin.

[HEARTinator]

The Liverpool match crowd will be 50% exchange students from SE Asia who've never been to a domestic game in their life.

That's if they're prepared to pay $80 per ticket maybe which was what was on offer mid week. Mostly I reckon will be local and some interstate EPL/Euro snob types.

[belaguttman]

Our sirectors do have ambition, it's to breal even financially by trading within their means. They have realised their ambition, it's their franchise so it's their call, it isn't a member owned club. Of course as supporters we are equally ambitious but our focus is on the on-field performance and this seems to have become a much lower priority for the owners since season 1. They've made noises about changing the focus of their ambition, they've released some players, the real extent of their ambition will be revealed if we sign appropriate players that cost money, build some decent training facilities that don't injure our players, and if we have a real pre-season without flattering strolls against state league teams

[Murfy1]

A few things need to be remembered before making sweeping claims about the club's ambition.

 

Going into Heart's first season the club managed to capture the spine of the previous season's championship team in Aloisi (who scored 10 goals for Sydney 2009-10), Colosimo and Bolton. The club also managed to secure the captain of the Newcastle Jets in Matt Thompson (who also won the A-League championship with the Jets in 2007-2008). Josip Skoko, a golden generation Socceroos who is the only Australian to captain a European team to win a European league (Genk in the Belgium league in 2002), was also lured to the club. Heart also signed Beauchamp, who had played for the Socceroos at the World Cup. The club also signed 2 Eredivisie players (yes, only one of them was pretty good) and a striker who had played for Fluminense for 5 years (Terra). Heart scoured Australia for talented young players and secured the likes of Eli Babalj and Michael Marrone. Talented young Victorian players were signed in Behich, Zahra and Kalmar. And last but not least, Heart spent more than any club ever has to secure an Ajax coach, with the best coaching pedigree that the A-League has ever seen.

 

Now, I've been as disappointed as anyone else over the limited success the club has achieved over its first three seasons. Season 2 and 3 did see some financial belt tightening, which, as pointed out, is to be expected in the early years of any new enterprise. And while the club did make the finals for the first time last season, I expected the club could achieve more and was disappointed that they didn't.

 

But to sweepingly state that the club has no ambition and has never had any ambition is to ignore the club's history. There was plenty of ambition going into Heart's first season, yet unfortunately for various reasons things went awry.

 

Now the club has stated it will spend significantly more and might sign a marquee, if that marquee player could fit within the team and is a sensible investment as well. The club has 7 to 8 months to to sign several players to fill the squad, so there is a long time to go before we can say the club has gone into its fourth season lacking ambition. As I've said before, the club secured the likes of Tadic, Gerhardt, Garcia and Vrankovic on a shoestring budget, so there is no reason to think we can sign players of that caliber or better going into next season. So, I reckon it would be wise to wait until we have assembled a full squad of players before passing judgement over whether the club is ambitious or not.

[Peter]

It was the clubs first season that has had me sign my family up for the last two. Over the last two years I have watched the downhill slide.

As Murfy pointed out the first season saw us put together a solid squad of youth and experience. I remember an interview where a Heart official said that they put together a squad which was based on the standard of Sydney's title winning side and that the A-League standard had improved and so our first year squad wasn't competetive enough. Well, what has changed and what has been learned?

The signings over the off season will obviously show the clubs future direction. It needs to be positive, as every Heart supporter I have spoken to is disillusioned and has had enough.

[jw1739]

Correction Murfy. The players will start pre-season in mid-June. We do not have 7-8 months in which to bring our squad up to strength. In a league of only 27 games you have to hit the ground running, and there is no time to allow a team to 'gel.' I hope that we have been working on our potential signings for months, not just thinking about it now. Last season players we are still 'negotiating' with ought to be given a deadline - you take the offer or it's withdrawn. We need to harden up.

[Roz]

Marquee signing is paramount, will change the club for the better in nearly every aspect.

[Bobbobbobmarley]

Every single aspect of this club needs a revamp. Scrap the lot and start again.

[Portillo]

We need a marquee.

 

Heart definately need a marquee. Someone that will excite the crowd and increase attendance.

Edited April 13, 2013 by Portillo

[HEARTinator]

Murfy1, agree with "So, I reckon it would be wise to wait until we have assembled a full squad of players before passing judgement over whether the club is ambitious or not."

Yes, in season 1 the club did assemble a pretty decent squad but then found that it was burning a hole in the pockets of the investors so belt tightening was enforced in the last season. But at the last fan forum I got a sense that Munn and the board realise that investment in players must be made to make Heart competitive.

[belaguttman]

Correction Murfy. The players will start pre-season in mid-June. We do not have 7-8 months in which to bring our squad up to strength. In a league of only 27 games you have to hit the ground running, and there is no time to allow a team to 'gel.' I hope that we have been working on our potential signings for months, not just thinking about it now. Last season players we are still 'negotiating' with ought to be given a deadline - you take the offer or it's withdrawn. We need to harden up.

Agree, except that the club can only sign players out of contract immediately, otherwise it has to wait for a transfer window.

[jw1739]

Correction Murfy. The players will start pre-season in mid-June. We do not have 7-8 months in which to bring our squad up to strength. In a league of only 27 games you have to hit the ground running, and there is no time to allow a team to 'gel.' I hope that we have been working on our potential signings for months, not just thinking about it now. Last season players we are still 'negotiating' with ought to be given a deadline - you take the offer or it's withdrawn. We need to harden up.

Agree, except that the club can only sign players out of contract immediately, otherwise it has to wait for a transfer window.

Correct. My point was that I hope we have already identified who we are trying to get to Heart.

[fiz.heart]

Being in a situation where we are forced to get a top quality marquee to increase crowds shows how dire things are.

Club should be rebranded; new logo and new playing kit. Fuck off kappa FFS

Edited April 14, 2013 by fiz.heart

[kingofhearts]

Being in a situation where we are forced to get a top quality marquee to increase crowds shows how dire things are.

Club should be rebranded; new logo and new playing kit. Fuck off kappa FFS

Surely you joke about Kappa???

 

By far they have made the best uniform we've ever worn, to fuck them off would be a stupid move

[belaguttman]

 

Correction Murfy. The players will start pre-season in mid-June. We do not have 7-8 months in which to bring our squad up to strength. In a league of only 27 games you have to hit the ground running, and there is no time to allow a team to 'gel.' I hope that we have been working on our potential signings for months, not just thinking about it now. Last season players we are still 'negotiating' with ought to be given a deadline - you take the offer or it's withdrawn. We need to harden up.

Agree, except that the club can only sign players out of contract immediately, otherwise it has to wait for a transfer window.

Correct. My point was that I hope we have already identified who we are trying to get to Heart.

Yes, me too

[Kiro Kompiro]

@Peter.

 

The first season was a very good time to be starting a club in Melbourne.

 

There were many disillusioned fans watching Victory.  Disillusioned by the type of football being played, by the type of players being recruited, by the Scottish flavour running through the club.  

 

I went to the second AU Grand Final and the Sydney Grand Final: garbage mind-numbing football where the crowd was bored shitless.  These fans were there for the taking.

 

It a was massive period of opportunity for this club to say we will play a different way, we will have a continental flavour to our playing philosophy, we will play youth (which by the way is another way to say:"there are senior players that are playing the game that do not meet the criteria of how we want to play" -youth for youth's sake is a mistake).  

 

Playing philosophy is the "identity problem" fixed right there.

 

And I could see the vision in Season 1 on the pitch.  But we had some costly incidents and injuries that meant we failed to make the finals.  But the ambition was there and that gave me hope for season 2.

 

Season 2 JVS threw it all out: a million back passes to the keeper, long balls to a 5 foot nothing Alex Terra, predictable wing play. This was not the dream.  In the end I was glad to see the back of JVS. 

 

I was hopeful that Aloisi would go back to the Season 1 vision, but he simply tried to implement JVS's second year game plan, with worse players and less knowledge.

 

Now Victory have actually implemented what we set out to do.  But they're still a work in progress.  We can catch them.

 

The club needs to go back to the on field vision because I know many members will wait and see next season before committing again.

[jw1739]

One of the best posts on the forum KK. Well said. It was when we reached second on the ladder, just before Christmas 2011, that JvS lost his nerve and we started playing to hang on to that wretched 'finals' spot. The club has gone steadily down hill ever since.

[HEARTinator]

While we ponder, WSW is out their:

 

http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/news/1147864/Wanderers-reveal-grand-plan

 

maybe it's hype and bullshit but then maybe it's not. Wot about FFA giving Heart, as one of the teams that came in 5 years after the other 8 had been given time to establish a solid supporter base, the same help as they have given WSW

Edited April 15, 2013 by HEARTinator

[Melburnian]

Difference between a well run club and well, a not well run club.

[Peter]

My understanding is that there are player concessions available to us if we want them - but our management has turned them down.

[jw1739]

While we ponder, WSW is out their:

 

http://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/news/1147864/Wanderers-reveal-grand-plan

 

maybe it's hype and bullshit but then maybe it's not. Wot about FFA giving Heart, as one of the teams that came in 5 years after the other 8 had been given time to establish a solid supporter base, the same help as they have given WSW

 

 

Difference between a well run club and well, a not well run club.

Possibly better run - we don't really know. WSW has had a fairytale start to life, and it's therefore the darling of the media and everything about it receives a positive treatment - even bad behaviour by spectators. It's also completely funded by a government grant, and there's not a dollar of private money invested in it.

 

I'm not saying that Heart couldn't do better - indeed, IMO Heart could do a lot of things better - but I think direct comparison is not apples and apples at this stage.

 

I also read that Heart was offered some player concessions as a start-up club, but declined them. Possibly because Heart is a private investment and not funded by government? After all, if you have to fund the concessions - or a large part of them - you're not likely to be so keen. Once again, not apples with apples.

 

Personally getting a little tired again of WSW and Sydney-centric FFA.

[belaguttman]

WSW, is not only owned by FFA but has had the advantage of having Lyall Gorman as it's CEO. Lyle had previously been CEO at CCM but had also spent a season running the HAL for FFA and was instrumental in running the HAL fan forums so he's arrived at WSW with a lot of knowledge and FFA connections. He's been able to use that to good effect to maximise the budget and player concessions. Perhaps Heart should re-consider their reported refusal of assistance if that story is true.

 

I agree, with 442, TWG, Foxsport and FFA all being Sydney based it really feels like the rest of the country is almost irrelevant for them.

[HEARTinator]

WSW, is not only owned by FFA but has had the advantage of having Lyall Gorman as it's CEO. Lyle had previously been CEO at CCM but had also spent a season running the HAL for FFA and was instrumental in running the HAL fan forums so he's arrived at WSW with a lot of knowledge and FFA connections. He's been able to use that to good effect to maximise the budget and player concessions. Perhaps Heart should re-consider their reported refusal of assistance if that story is true.

 

I agree, with 442, TWG, Foxsport and FFA all being Sydney based it really feels like the rest of the country is almost irrelevant for them.

http://www.theroar.com.au/2013/04/16/gorman-can-take-credit-for-a-league-showdown/

 

What The Roar article points to is how effectively Gorman went about cultivating grass root support for the two clubs. Lesson for HeartFC CEO and Board - listen to the fans. I think on this score Munn and the board have started to positively engage with the members.

[belaguttman]

Yes, my point is that Gorman came into the job with previous experience as CEO, first hand experience with fan engagement through the fan forums and had substantial assistance from FFA, all things missing in our establishment. Heart management are learning those lessons now, but could benefit from some of the same assistance that FFA gave WSW.

[jw1739]

Yes, my point is that Gorman came into the job with previous experience as CEO, first hand experience with fan engagement through the fan forums and had substantial assistance from FFA, all things missing in our establishment. Heart management are learning those lessons now, but could benefit from some of the same assistance that FFA gave WSW.

Not only Heart of course. NQF were chopped off at the knees by FFA who would not give them time to get their community ownership model going. And GCU were chopped off by a needless dummy-spit by Frank Lowy (however much people might dislike Clive Palmer, it was Lowy who pulled the pin on GCU and not Palmer).

 

FFA killed off two clubs and now its darling WSW can do no wrong. Double standard.

[cadete]

jw1739, on 16 Apr 2013 - 11:42, said:

belaguttman, on 16 Apr 2013 - 11:21, said:

Yes, my point is that Gorman came into the job with previous experience as CEO, first hand experience with fan engagement through the fan forums and had substantial assistance from FFA, all things missing in our establishment. Heart management are learning those lessons now, but could benefit from some of the same assistance that FFA gave WSW.

Not only Heart of course. NQF were chopped off at the knees by FFA who would not give them time to get their community ownership model going. And GCU were chopped off by a needless dummy-spit by Frank Lowy (however much people might dislike Clive Palmer, it was Lowy who pulled the pin on GCU and not Palmer).

FFA killed off two clubs and now its darling WSW can do no wrong. Double standard. This Sydney Bias has been going on for years...

Northern Spirit, Parramatta Power, Sydney FC, Central Coast, have all had a few rub and tugs themselves in their time before FFA/SA moved on to WSW.

Edited April 16, 2013 by cadete

[Attack11]

What I have said since the Fan Forum. Stop trying to attract members, stop trying to entertain the public with pre match spectacles. The ambition should be Head down and work your Fucking Ass off, to do whatever it takes to be successful. Our Goal should be to become the first Australian club to win the ACL and we should achieve that my any means necessary.

[MrAiDaN66]

Win and they will come

[Jimmy]

Honestly think our goal should be to be the biggest club in Asia.