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Potential A-league signings


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This is something I just don’t get; yes I understand that some players have played for the tards and that when we sign them we sign a player from a crosstown rival.  Yes I get that it doesn’t give a great impression when the team has a number of former tards in the line-up.

 

However, what gives the greater perspective; the way the team plays or the prior A League clubs of a particular player? 

 

If the player is good enough, I don’t care where he played in the past.  A winning and high quality / well playing Heart side is ALL I care about.  It is the biggest factor in growing the club.  Otherwise I don’t give two shits.

 

You may have overlooked that we finished 8th, 6th and 9th in our three seasons so far.

 

 

or perhaps you have missed what i was getting at; a successful side (or lack thereof) will play a massive part in the growth of the club.  the lack of success so far says to me that the growth of the club has stagnated due to a lack of genuinely interesting and consistent high quality performances.

Edited by mattyh001
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A lot of posters on here dont have a proper grasp of the Australian Player Market within which Heart operate.

Many enter the debate with preconceived notions from the European Market or other sports.

This is reflected in same old themes  on how we sould be recruiting which are posted again and again on here.

 

Theme One: We should not sign MVFC Players:

Do people realise that if the club refused to sign Ex MVFC players then we would be drawing a line through 10% of the total pool of professional footballers in Australia?

And that this pool at its highest is only 230 players deep?

(It should be also noted that the league is financed by the FFA so that the bottom 50/60 of the players are professionals where as if it was normal Free Market league then guys like Hoff would never be professionals.)

 

Theme Two: We should play our NYL players (Instead of former MVFC Players or A League Rejects):

Another thing PPL need to realise is that NYL are NYL players for a reason, if a NYL player proves himself good enough for the seniors he will become a senior player at MH or another club will sign him if we dont. There is no more valuable commodity to a A League club like MHFC than a young player who could earn the club some transfer money.

No coach is going to ever play an ageing veteran if a young player can do the job.

 

Theme Three: We should sign VPL players (Instead of MVFC Players or A League Rejects):

It is clear most who say this on here dont actually watch the VPL as like the VFL it is a league full of A League rejects, in fact it is the A League rejects that are the highest paid and often the most dominate players in the league. This is the reason why the League’s Model is being overhauled as the FFA sees the VPL as a hindrance to Youth Development (A debate for another time). So therefore finding players up to A League standard that are not A League Rejects from the State Leagues is a very hard task.

 

Also has anyone thought about how hard it is to get some to relocate for their job?

All MVFC players have a least lived in Melbourne (Some even come from here) so obv its sometimes easier to convience a guy like Mate to cross town than a similar player from Perth to move across the nation.

 

 

They're good points Cadete, but I suggest they are a little over-simplified. For starters, the market is not only confined to Australia. Even if we're talking about players of Australian nationality there is a pool of more than 230. Granted, some are beyond our reach, but when it comes down to specific players - and I think this issue of ex-MVFC players is raised again because of our need to sign a reserve goalkeeper and not for any other reason such as Dugandzic or Kewell - I for one would prefer not to sign an ex-MVFC player if there is a reasonable alternative. And I believe that there are several in the case of the reserve goalkeeper position.

 

I threw in my lot with Melbourne Heart. I want to see us have our own identity and not be seen as Melbourne Victory Seconds.

 

 

 

They're good points Cadete, but I suggest they are a little over-simplified. For starters, the market is not only confined to Australia. Even if we're talking about players of Australian nationality there is a pool of more than 230. Granted, some are beyond our reach, but when it comes down to specific players - and I think this issue of ex-MVFC players is raised again because of our need to sign a reserve goalkeeper and not for any other reason such as Dugandzic or Kewell - I for one would prefer not to sign an ex-MVFC player if there is a reasonable alternative. And I believe that there are several in the case of the reserve goalkeeper position.

 

I threw in my lot with Melbourne Heart. I want to see us have our own identity and not be seen as Melbourne Victory Seconds.

I agree there are Australian players applying their trade overseas we can target.

However the general experience over the past two years has been that such players is will prefer to place in even play in places like China, Korea  and the Middle East over coming home. You could probably label this the National Team Theory.

 

We only scored Garcia because of how injury ridden he was and he was wanting to be noticed so he could move on to Asia so he could be noticed for the NT. And whilst I am pretty optimistic about Kewell next season, we all know he had no options but to head home to play some kind of football to be looked at fot the NT.

 

 

cadete - love the original post!!

 

the challenge with getting players from overseas (whether they are Australian or otherwise) is that the A League has significant financial constraints.  With a maximum 21 players (2 down on the 23 player cap since the club can nominate 2 marquees) we are only looking at around $119k for the average wage (salary cap of 2.5 mil / 21).  argumentively you could push the average up for better players by placing 10 or so players on youth development / squad position based contracts between the league minmum (50k IIRC) and 100k, but that only takes around 500k-800k away (assuming there that those 10 won't all get 100k).  with the remaining 11 players and 1.7 to 2.0 mil, thats an average for the "quality players" of roughly 155k-180k.  Any visa player worth his salt or quality Socceroo is going to be in the higher end of the club's wage list, so like Cadete I think we are going to have to focus locally for the majority of the squad base positions.

Edited by mattyh001
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I'm a little amazed at some of the perspectives on here. Just so negative. Some great posts from mattyh and cadete. I'd like to add another perspective as I think there is a lot of group think occuring here due to the on going negativity on this forum.

 

Two years ago when Madaschi played for ten games our record was excellent during that time. With the excpetion of him and the coach what was the difference between that list and the list we had running around last year? Not much I'd say. So when we bitch that Wielhaerdt or w/e his name is is the only decent signing has anyone stopped to think we have solved our biggest issue in the first 3 seasons. It's no coincidence that when Madaschi played and organised our team at the back we were a much better side. IF this guy can do the same thing I'd argue we are already ahead of last year. 

 

Yes we need a striker and a dm but if we are solid at the back and I'm going to guess our first choice central defenders should be amongst the best in the league we should be in reasonable shape to build. McBreen has shown any monkey can score goals given the opportunity and I think Golgol and Mate can put a few in between them given the chances. Kewell will score goals as well I'm sure. Bring in another scoring threat and we should kick enough goals.

 

Either way all the negative talk or for that matter positive talk means dick until we see what this team when its together can do on the park. As a supporter all we can do is turn up and support the team. I know it's a long off season but honestly the amount of tears on here is ridiculous.

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Nicolás Canales

Solid suggestion. Can't find any information about him other than he played for Baku in May. Hasn't played in their CL qualifiers so far so no idea if he even has a club at the moment. Surely wouldn't cost that much.

... So where have you dug him up from?

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This is to quickly clarify my long post. I'll try to be brief.

 

The possible signing of Tando annoys me because it represents uninspired recruiting, and it looks too much like the club isn't searching thoroughly enough and pursuing possible signings appropriately. 

 

I have not minded the majority of victory players that we've signed. I think Behich and Dugandzic are some of the best players to play at Heart, and I believe they deserve a lot of respect for their efforts. I also was one of the early backers of Kewell, because I believe he's well motivated and he could do big things for Heart. However, I don't want this to be a long term strategy. In other words, I don't want Heart to repetitively sign Victory players.

 

I find it a bit hypocritical as well. John Didulica said, with regards to Heart and Victory, that "Establishing our point of difference was our biggest challenge,” (http://www.goal.com/en/news/808/australia/2010/06/01/1952471/exclusive-john-didulica-on-building-the-melbourne-heart). To repeat, I don't mind signing a few of their players, when they are good, but I don't want the club to sign more than a few.

 

And then there's the progress of this off-season's signings. At the same time last season, we had already signed Patrick Gerhardt and Josip Tadic. And we had completed both those signings about 2 week ago to today, and that was on what Heart itself described as a "shoe-string budget".

 

I recall that Heart said the club had about 4 European targets, and it looks like Wielaert was the only player we managed to secure. The most recent comment Heart has made on recruitment was a tweet John Didulica made 5 days ago, which read: "searching far & wide, but not going to rush. Haste makes waste." So, we are apparently just searching, and we don't have any targets at the moment. I don't mind Heart taking its time to sign good players. If we sign 2 or 3 quality players right before the season starts, Heart would still get high praise from me. I would just like some simple statements from the club. If Heart were merely to say "we still intend to use up all our VISA spots", that would put my mind at ease. I don't even care if we don't sign a single marquee (whether junior, Australian or International). I think it would help, but it's not something I'm really fussed about. 

 

I'm just concerned that Heart might be acting complacently, and that the club might be thinking that they effectively completed their squad when they completed our 4th new signing, Harry Kewell. Going off the club's statements, one could think that, as there have been no statements besides statements regarding Garcia and a backup GK. I just hope Heart's management realise that their work isn't done yet.

 

I think we have a decent squad at the moment, despite the fact we have only used up 3 VISA spots and we don't currently have any players using the junior marquee, Australian marquee or international marquee deals. I would happily support this squad next season. Heck, if Heart pretty much only signed ex-Victory players I would still support this club. I might be incredibly frustrated, but I would still buy my memberships and support this club. I just want Heart to give itself the best chances to go all the way and finished 1st next season, and/or win the final. If I criticise, it's because I want Heart to do well, and sometimes I think it is worthwhile to light a fire someone (that is, add pressure), to make someone achieve all they can.

 

I think Heart is thinking the same, and there is more to come, which is why they said multiple times that Heart plans to spend more on the football department (which includes the squad). I'd just like to hear some more positive noises from the club, and assurances that our off-season isn't done yet, and that Heart intends to give the club very good chances of achieving success next season. 

Edited by Murfy1
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Nicolás Canales

Solid suggestion.Can't find any information about him other than he played for Baku in May. Hasn't played in their CL qualifiers so far so no idea if he even has a club at the moment. Surely wouldn't cost that much. ... So where have you dug him up from?

Wiki ffs

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fuck me dead lad

 

we have signed what 4 players, 5 if Velaphi is true?? how can you not be happy with that so far?? we are still many weeks off the start of the season so relax your flaps, we are going to sign more players. i would rather they didnt rush into signing players so people like you can be happy

 

tl;dmfr - the off-season isnt done yet and the players will come

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I have come up with a theory regarding Hearts transfer dealings I could well be right, the players to be signed could well be "higher profile" then what we  have signed so far and with that comes "higher wages" so if the players that are in line to be signed command a higher wage the club "could" well be waiting to announce these signings to save on "paying higher wages" to these players. I could also be very wrong but it seems to save the club some money they could well be waiting closer to the season proper to announce these players.

If your paying a Marquee player $1,000,000 a year which equals to some $20,000 a week there is still 3 months to go before the league actually starts so to have them come in now that's some $200,000 saved in wages the risk with this is the obvious risk of missing out on these players but the club is rolling the dice!

Edited by AntiScum
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fuck me dead lad

 

we have signed what 4 players, 5 if Velaphi is true?? how can you not be happy with that so far?? we are still many weeks off the start of the season so relax your flaps, we are going to sign more players. i would rather they didnt rush into signing players so people like you can be happy

 

tl;dmfr - the off-season isnt done yet and the players will come

what we need is a solid pre-season with a team of players who can all work with the coach's system and get to know how to work with each other, this requires time. It's also important to improve the team fitness levels far beyond that reached in previous seasons, player need to be available for a full pre-season to reach that level, any player joining the team with 2 weeks until the season starts will be behind the game for a half season. There's also the small matter of a striker, rather an important position for the club, and unless Kewell is going to be played in that position, it's hard to see how it'll all come together by the season opener.

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I wonder if the club makes use of recruitment tools such as this one ...

 

http://www.prozonesports.com/service-player-recruitment.html

 

Also, found this article on having a clear recruitment strategy...

 

http://www.totalfootballmag.com/features/columnists/the-ben-smith-column-whats-your-teams-recruitment-strategy/

 

 

No doubt Heart is under resourced with respect to recruiting.

 

It also appears that due to the worldwide infrastructure in place, 99.9% of kids with attributes to make them a star are identified very early and sent of to a European Acadamy, so short term, youth development, will be an ongoing challenge, although the club's track record is good in this regard.  I think it will get harder in Australia, however, as quite a few A-league clubs now have a strong youth focus with programs in place.

 

On recrutment, I really do get the impression that we are pretty much a one man band (JD).   I have no idea how many scouts the club use?? 

 

With overseas players, I think our only choice is to keep targeting players at the PG level, and hope for the occasional oppurtunity to grab an aging star (HK), or a player looking to re-establish themself (RG).   Although not absolutely ideal, I think that club needs to get cleverer about bringing in players short term as needed to the extent that Heart creates a niche as a team that uses short term high profile (quality) loan players (look at the success of Madaschi).  Perhaps we could forge a relationship with some high profile O/S clubs and offer stars recovering from injury / fitness issues some game time.

 

As discussed elsewhere, the Australian market is tough with respect to recruitment.  The club needs to be as clever as possible and look to create a point of difference that sets us apart.

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I have come up with a theory regarding Hearts transfer dealings I could well be right, the players to be signed could well be "higher profile" then what we  have signed so far and with that comes "higher wages" so if the players that are in line to be signed command a higher wage the club "could" well be waiting to announce these signings to save on "paying higher wages" to these players. I could also be very wrong but it seems to save the club some money they could well be waiting closer to the season proper to announce these players.

If your paying a Marquee player $1,000,000 a year which equals to some $20,000 a week there is still 3 months to go before the league actually starts so to have them come in now that's some $200,000 saved in wages the risk with this is the obvious risk of missing out on these players but the club is rolling the dice!

If we look at the list of players who have departed the club and those who have joined this pre-season, and bearing in mind that we were inside the salary cap anyway, there must be a bucket-load of money still sitting there. And FFA are going to pick up the wages up to the salary cap aren't they?

 

I think it's unlikely that quality players have already signed but that we haven't said anything yet. It's pretty hard these days to keep things quiet for too long.

 

Debate is healthy, and good points are being made on all sides of this debate.

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I have come up with a theory regarding Hearts transfer dealings I could well be right, the players to be signed could well be "higher profile" then what we  have signed so far and with that comes "higher wages" so if the players that are in line to be signed command a higher wage the club "could" well be waiting to announce these signings to save on "paying higher wages" to these players. I could also be very wrong but it seems to save the club some money they could well be waiting closer to the season proper to announce these players.

If your paying a Marquee player $1,000,000 a year which equals to some $20,000 a week there is still 3 months to go before the league actually starts so to have them come in now that's some $200,000 saved in wages the risk with this is the obvious risk of missing out on these players but the club is rolling the dice!

If we look at the list of players who have departed the club and those who have joined this pre-season, and bearing in mind that we were inside the salary cap anyway, there must be a bucket-load of money still sitting there. And FFA are going to pick up the wages up to the salary cap aren't they?

 

I think it's unlikely that quality players have already signed but that we haven't said anything yet. It's pretty hard these days to keep things quiet for too long.

 

Debate is healthy, and good points are being made on all sides of this debate.

 

 

Yep, the FFA are increasing their club funding model / grant system to $2.5 mil per year (up from $1.3 mil) to cover the cost of the salary cap.

 

Agree jw1739 that there must be a bit left in the cap.  Hopefully thats a good sign of some good future incoming players

Edited by mattyh001
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Only 3 out field spots left now that Aziz is back, two of which will be foreigners. Need a high quality CF, DM and AM with our next three signings. Our whole season pretty much rests on these players.

 

Provided he's keen as mustard to get on with restarting his career at the club (unlike Babelj) then its a good signing if true.  Jimmy, do you have a source?

Edited by mattyh001
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Only 3 out field spots left now that Aziz is back, two of which will be foreigners. Need a high quality CF, DM and AM with our next three signings. Our whole season pretty much rests on these players.

 

Provided he's keen as mustard to get on with restarting his career at the club (unlike Babelj) then its a good signing if true.  Jimmy, do you have a source?

 

 

 

Has aziz been confirmed?

FWIW it's on transfermarkt.co.uk http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/aziz-eraltay/transfers/spieler_136834.html and http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/melbourne-heart-fc/transfers-alle/verein_25580.html

showing a loan from Bursaspor back to Heart for one year.

 

Also see http://spor.bugun.com.tr/bursasporda-iki-isimle-yollar-ayrildi-haberi/731780

 

Would be nice if the club could confirm.

 

Transfermarkt still shows Apostu...

Edited by jw1739
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I have come up with a theory regarding Hearts transfer dealings I could well be right, the players to be signed could well be "higher profile" then what we  have signed so far and with that comes "higher wages" so if the players that are in line to be signed command a higher wage the club "could" well be waiting to announce these signings to save on "paying higher wages" to these players. I could also be very wrong but it seems to save the club some money they could well be waiting closer to the season proper to announce these players.

If your paying a Marquee player $1,000,000 a year which equals to some $20,000 a week there is still 3 months to go before the league actually starts so to have them come in now that's some $200,000 saved in wages the risk with this is the obvious risk of missing out on these players but the club is rolling the dice!

If we look at the list of players who have departed the club and those who have joined this pre-season, and bearing in mind that we were inside the salary cap anyway, there must be a bucket-load of money still sitting there. And FFA are going to pick up the wages up to the salary cap aren't they?

 

I think it's unlikely that quality players have already signed but that we haven't said anything yet. It's pretty hard these days to keep things quiet for too long.

 

Debate is healthy, and good points are being made on all sides of this debate.

 

With the FFA picking up the tab no doubt there will be terms and conditions placed on the clubs just like GAYFL with Melbourne. No doubt they will have some influence on certain players being picked up so my theory makes a little bit of sense when you have a "potential" marquee in the wings they will say hold off. if im not wrong most marquee players have been signed with a month of league starting and in saying that that`s a fair bit of wages saved by the clubs. In saying that the clubs are also their own identity and should be able to press ahead with signings when ready to do so. The FFA have more pull over clubs then people actually think.

Edited by AntiScum
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fuck me dead lad

 

we have signed what 4 players, 5 if Velaphi is true?? how can you not be happy with that so far?? we are still many weeks off the start of the season so relax your flaps, we are going to sign more players. i would rather they didnt rush into signing players so people like you can be happy

 

tl;dmfr - the off-season isnt done yet and the players will come

what we need is a solid pre-season with a team of players who can all work with the coach's system and get to know how to work with each other, this requires time. It's also important to improve the team fitness levels far beyond that reached in previous seasons, player need to be available for a full pre-season to reach that level, any player joining the team with 2 weeks until the season starts will be behind the game for a half season. There's also the small matter of a striker, rather an important position for the club, and unless Kewell is going to be played in that position, it's hard to see how it'll all come together by the season opener.

 

 

 

wait...Aloisi has a system?

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The Club also confirms the signing of goalkeeper Tando Velaphi to a one-season deal.

An agile shot stopper, Aloisi believes Velaphi is the ideal back-up keeper to compliment established first-choice ‘keeper Andrew Redmayne.

“We had a number of ‘possibles’ on trial and all the coaches agreed Tando is in all respects the best option,” Aloisi said.

“He is the best goalkeeper in Australia not currently with an A-League deal, an excellent professional and his chemistry with Andrew Redmayne is superb, so it is a great fit.”

 

I like the strong emphasis in this statement about Redmayne being our no. 1 keeper. I'm not thrilled with Tando, and though I personally would have preferred one of the other options (though not necessarily Bray), he should be sufficient as a backup GK.

 

Also, there's this at the end of the article, which is possibly a hint about 2 of our final 3 signings being internationals:

Melbourne Heart now has 20 squad members contracted for the 2013-14 season, with three spots remaining, including two international places. 
Edited by Murfy1
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