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The Coronavirus Thread (We nearly didn't see City in the 2021 Grand Final)


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1 hour ago, jw1739 said:

I still don't understand how we are going to implement this "vaccinated economy" with certain activities being denied to unvaccinated people. Under what legal umbrella can this be done?

Just more horseshit from the most incompetent government on planet earth.

Just sit back and laugh, not much else you can do these days.

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2 hours ago, jw1739 said:

I still don't understand how we are going to implement this "vaccinated economy" with certain activities being denied to unvaccinated people. Under what legal umbrella can this be done?

I don't know about the legal question, but there will be is already a pandemic amongst the unvaccinated, When the majority of the population is vaccinated their chance of becoming infected is reduced and the more we can encourage to vaccinate, the less pressure on the health system.

The health system is designed to routinely operate at or above 100% capacity, this is why it has absolutely no surge capacity, quality of care will drop precipitously for every health problem

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13 hours ago, jw1739 said:

I still don't understand how we are going to implement this "vaccinated economy" with certain activities being denied to unvaccinated people. Under what legal umbrella can this be done?

Not sure whether there is a law covering this already but introducing one is not that difficult as we already have templates eg driving license, site access licenses, etc. Whether the passport should be national or state based will be the big issue alongside how to police it.

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4 hours ago, NewConvert said:

Not sure whether there is a law covering this already but introducing one is not that difficult as we already have templates eg driving license, site access licenses, etc. Whether the passport should be national or state based will be the big issue alongside how to police it.

Yes, I'd considered the first of those two you mention - and there are others, such as fishing licences and so on. The two you mention deal essentially with competence/preparedness to do something. I see vaccination as different. And I think there's the matter of implementation - we'd certainly be pissed off if round every corner we had to stop the car and show our driver licence, whereas the way this "vaccine passport" is being touted you're going to have to present it multiple times per day as soon as you "enter" somewhere other than your home. And enforcement - who's going to do this? "Security" on every doorway?

And don't get me wrong - I think people refusing or avoiding vaccination are crazy. My concern is implementation. I already find QR codes a pain.

@NewConvert As for implementation I think you will be interested to read this: https://www.parliament.vic.gov.au/publications/research-papers/download/36-research-papers/13962-emergency-powers-public-health-and-covid-19
My understanding is that the restrictions and rules are only enforceable while a state of emergency or disaster is declared; once those cease the current restrictions and rules have no legal standing.

Edited by jw1739
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2 hours ago, jw1739 said:

 

@NewConvert As for implementation I think you will be interested to read this: https://www.parliament.vic.gov.au/publications/research-papers/download/36-research-papers/13962-emergency-powers-public-health-and-covid-19
My understanding is that the restrictions and rules are only enforceable while a state of emergency or disaster is declared; once those cease the current restrictions and rules have no legal standing.

This is kind of the big thing. Once we hit the 80% double vaxxed mark it will be hard to justify an ongoing state of emergency, and the vaccine passports will be pretty difficult to implement. We’re already seeing the ideas of vaccine passports struggling to get support in many countries overseas. I don’t think they will be able to last very long down here. Best advice is to go and get vaccinated if you haven’t already so you give yourself the best chance of protection you can, as not everyone is going to end up doing it.

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Remember, the 70% and 80% marks are of those eligible for vaccination, they aren't population %. 70% still leaves 9 million Australians unvaccinated or under-vaccinated. The virus will quickly pass through the population, about half the vaccinated population will get a mild infection, perhaps lasting a few days, the other half won't get infected at all. Most of the 9 million won't get seriously ill (4 million of those are children <12), 10-15% of the other 5 million will get significantly ill, we are still talking big numbers. The determinant on the rate that restrictions can be removed will be the strain on the health system. The state of the health system won't just determine the level of care available for those with Covid, but the level of care for any health problem.

The underlying health system issue is, as I've mentioned, the system is designed to constantly and routinely operate at 100% capacity. This makes it a difficult place to work at the best of times, funding is minimised to keep the system working at 100% capacity, high staff turnover from burnout (especially nurses) has just been accepted an good management practice as it could be balanced with recruitment, but there has never been any surge capacity in the healthcare system.

That describes city based health, move to the regions, where 5 million Australians live, and the level of care and the capacity for the sort of health care demands we will see is way below city health care, and rural areas won't have city hospitals for backup. This is why we need to mange coming out of restrictions carefully.

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3 hours ago, belaguttman said:

Remember, the 70% and 80% marks are of those eligible for vaccination, they aren't population %. 70% still leaves 9 million Australians unvaccinated or under-vaccinated. The virus will quickly pass through the population, about half the vaccinated population will get a mild infection, perhaps lasting a few days, the other half won't get infected at all. Most of the 9 million won't get seriously ill (4 million of those are children <12), 10-15% of the other 5 million will get significantly ill, we are still talking big numbers. The determinant on the rate that restrictions can be removed will be the strain on the health system. The state of the health system won't just determine the level of care available for those with Covid, but the level of care for any health problem.

The underlying health system issue is, as I've mentioned, the system is designed to constantly and routinely operate at 100% capacity. This makes it a difficult place to work at the best of times, funding is minimised to keep the system working at 100% capacity, high staff turnover from burnout (especially nurses) has just been accepted an good management practice as it could be balanced with recruitment, but there has never been any surge capacity in the healthcare system.

That describes city based health, move to the regions, where 5 million Australians live, and the level of care and the capacity for the sort of health care demands we will see is way below city health care, and rural areas won't have city hospitals for backup. This is why we need to mange coming out of restrictions carefully.

Easy way to solve this. Have you heard of ivermectin? Apparently it's more effective then any vaccine out there (mainly used on horses though and Joe Rogan)

If we pump a bunch of ivermectin into the water supply, it'll help build everyone's immunity up quicker.

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12 hours ago, jw1739 said:

Yes, I'd considered the first of those two you mention - and there are others, such as fishing licences and so on. The two you mention deal essentially with competence/preparedness to do something. I see vaccination as different. And I think there's the matter of implementation - we'd certainly be pissed off if round every corner we had to stop the car and show our driver licence, whereas the way this "vaccine passport" is being touted you're going to have to present it multiple times per day as soon as you "enter" somewhere other than your home. And enforcement - who's going to do this? "Security" on every doorway?

And don't get me wrong - I think people refusing or avoiding vaccination are crazy. My concern is implementation. I already find QR codes a pain.

@NewConvert As for implementation I think you will be interested to read this: https://www.parliament.vic.gov.au/publications/research-papers/download/36-research-papers/13962-emergency-powers-public-health-and-covid-19
My understanding is that the restrictions and rules are only enforceable while a state of emergency or disaster is declared; once those cease the current restrictions and rules have no legal standing.

The current rules by decree can only be enforced when a state of emergency is declared. However, this does not prevent the parliament for passing separate laws to have permanent "passports". BTW, AFAIK the Victorian parliament is the only parliament that has time limited state of emergency as all the other states appear to have one by decree in perpetuity or until the CHO declares that it is no longer required. It was Andrews who introduced the parliamentary renewal when he was health minister.

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Our approach to this is beginning to lose me. As it stands, in terms of "opening up," fully-vaccinated people are being held hostage by the minority of people who decide not to be vaccinated (for whatever reason). I might not be able to move freely in my life even though the majority of people around me have been fully vaccinated because some twerp somewhere else decides not to be vaccinated and we don't reach the required percentage.

We need to refine this model somehow.

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1 hour ago, jw1739 said:

Our approach to this is beginning to lose me. As it stands, in terms of "opening up," fully-vaccinated people are being held hostage by the minority of people who decide not to be vaccinated (for whatever reason). I might not be able to move freely in my life even though the majority of people around me have been fully vaccinated because some twerp somewhere else decides not to be vaccinated and we don't reach the required percentage.

We need to refine this model somehow.

I think it is a little harsh to blame all people who have not been vaccinated as yet. There are many who were only eligible to be vaccinated from 1 September (and only able to book an appointment a few days prior to that). Once appointments were able to be made available slots were snapped up pretty quickly and the govt booking site kept crashing. There would definitely be many people who have not had the first vaccination that are booked in for the earliest appointment they could get.

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44 minutes ago, malloy said:

I think it is a little harsh to blame all people who have not been vaccinated as yet. There are many who were only eligible to be vaccinated from 1 September (and only able to book an appointment a few days prior to that). Once appointments were able to be made available slots were snapped up pretty quickly and the govt booking site kept crashing. There would definitely be many people who have not had the first vaccination that are booked in for the earliest appointment they could get.

Good point that I confess I had overlooked. 

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15 hours ago, malloy said:

I think it is a little harsh to blame all people who have not been vaccinated as yet. There are many who were only eligible to be vaccinated from 1 September (and only able to book an appointment a few days prior to that). Once appointments were able to be made available slots were snapped up pretty quickly and the govt booking site kept crashing. There would definitely be many people who have not had the first vaccination that are booked in for the earliest appointment they could get.

Half the unvaccinated total are still ineligible for vaccinations. 5-12 yo approvals for Pfizer are coming, 6 month - 5 studies are almost complete.

Health system is close to collapse in NSW and only a few weeks away in Victoria, worse in rural areas

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1 hour ago, belaguttman said:

Half the unvaccinated total are still ineligible for vaccinations. 5-12 yo approvals for Pfizer are coming, 6 month - 5 studies are almost complete.

Health system is close to collapse in NSW and only a few weeks away in Victoria, worse in rural areas

@belaguttmanI'd say it's a matter of days rather than weeks. We're on the brink. And based on the non-compliances I saw yesterday in terms of masking it's not going to be pretty.

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On 29/09/2021 at 3:55 PM, jw1739 said:

Our approach to this is beginning to lose me. As it stands, in terms of "opening up," fully-vaccinated people are being held hostage by the minority of people who decide not to be vaccinated (for whatever reason). I might not be able to move freely in my life even though the majority of people around me have been fully vaccinated because some twerp somewhere else decides not to be vaccinated and we don't reach the required percentage.

We need to refine this model somehow.

I'll put myself out there and say I haven't been jabbed yet. Based on the extremely small chance of actually ending up sick and the even smaller chance to end up in ICU (it appears many vaccinated are ending up there anyway) I've made a choice to not be coerced by government, family and in general those that are vaccinated (yes the same people that didn't say one word prior to getting vaccinated) because I wanted to make a choice about when and which vaccine I will take. Not that it is anyone's business I decided not to go with Pfizer but will most likely go with Novavax due to its previous use in things such as Hepatitis B etc. so it has a long history of being used. Pretty sure it's supposed to be arriving on our shores end of October. 

Anyway that was a long round about way to say dont look at the unvaxxed. Look at the policy makers. These pathetic government officials and their puppets around and above them are causing your (our) problem. 

Edited by n i k o
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35 minutes ago, n i k o said:

I'll put myself out there and say I haven't been jabbed yet. Based on the extremely small chance of actually ending up sick and the even smaller chance to end up in ICU (it appears many vaccinated are ending up there anyway) I've made a choice to not be coerced by government, family and in general those that are vaccinated (yes the same people that didn't say one word prior to getting vaccinated) because I wanted to make a choice about when and which vaccine I will take. Not that it is anyone's business I decided not to go with Pfizer but will most likely go with Novavax due to its previous use in things such as Hepatitis B etc. so it has a long history of being used. Pretty sure it's supposed to be arriving on our shores end of October. 

Anyway that was a long round about way to say dont look at the unvaxxed. Look at the policy makers. These pathetic government officials and their puppets around and above them are causing your (our) problem. 

You haven't lived through too many natural disasters have you?

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7 hours ago, HeartFc said:

Sorry, fact checking myself. 

95% of people in hospital in Victoria have had the jab. Nothing about who is on oxy or in ICU. 

Still with a wormy IMO.

:wormy:

 

 

 

Foley got his words mixed up in the presser. 

It's 95%+ UN-Vaccinated

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-29/unvaccinated-make-up-98-per-cent-of-total-icu-covid-cases/13563118

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11 hours ago, n i k o said:

I'll put myself out there and say I haven't been jabbed yet. Based on the extremely small chance of actually ending up sick and the even smaller chance to end up in ICU (it appears many vaccinated are ending up there anyway) I've made a choice to not be coerced by government, family and in general those that are vaccinated (yes the same people that didn't say one word prior to getting vaccinated) because I wanted to make a choice about when and which vaccine I will take. Not that it is anyone's business I decided not to go with Pfizer but will most likely go with Novavax due to its previous use in things such as Hepatitis B etc. so it has a long history of being used. Pretty sure it's supposed to be arriving on our shores end of October. 

Anyway that was a long round about way to say dont look at the unvaxxed. Look at the policy makers. These pathetic government officials and their puppets around and above them are causing your (our) problem. 

No, the virus is causing the problem, yes incompetence etc. from government and its agencies are contributing, and yes you do have the freedom of choice that you are exercising. It's a question of which you can control. I just don't want to be held hostage by the decision that you have taken so far.

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Agree with @jw1739's point above. I would much prefer as many people as possible get vaccinated, however there has to be some freedom of choice. What we need to avoid is that vaccinated people being held back until a magical threshold is hit ("held hostage"). I don't think governments need to aim for 70%, 80%, 90% etc. targets. Instead, just make sure that everyone who wants to have it has had good opportunity to. After that, as much freedom as possible should be available to those who are vaccinated. It's likely that the % will be pretty high anyway.

It may well be that those who have chosen not to get a vaccine can't enjoy all aspects of life - if employers or private businesses or AAMI Park choose to serve only, or employ only vaccinated people. But at least it will be informed choice. 

I think a sticking point will be public transport. I need to use it if i am to return to office work in the city, but don't those concerned about COVID should have to be crammed in with people who have made a conscious choice to remain unvaccinated. I can imagine calls for separate vaccinated and unvaccinated carriages......but it screams of segregation and i'm not sure where society ends up if we start to go down that way. (I make a distinction between public transport and things like restaurants or AAMI park because public transport is a necessity for many whereas entertainment is discretionary.)  

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42 minutes ago, Tangerine said:

Agree with @jw1739's point above. I would much prefer as many people as possible get vaccinated, however there has to be some freedom of choice. What we need to avoid is that vaccinated people being held back until a magical threshold is hit ("held hostage"). I don't think governments need to aim for 70%, 80%, 90% etc. targets. Instead, just make sure that everyone who wants to have it has had good opportunity to. After that, as much freedom as possible should be available to those who are vaccinated. It's likely that the % will be pretty high anyway.

It may well be that those who have chosen not to get a vaccine can't enjoy all aspects of life - if employers or private businesses or AAMI Park choose to serve only, or employ only vaccinated people. But at least it will be informed choice. 

I think a sticking point will be public transport. I need to use it if i am to return to office work in the city, but don't those concerned about COVID should have to be crammed in with people who have made a conscious choice to remain unvaccinated. I can imagine calls for separate vaccinated and unvaccinated carriages......but it screams of segregation and i'm not sure where society ends up if we start to go down that way. (I make a distinction between public transport and things like restaurants or AAMI park because public transport is a necessity for many whereas entertainment is discretionary.)  

Well put. There are many aspects of life that fall into that necessity category - not least of which is buying food and other items - I would guess far more than are discretionary. And, as well as activities that can be clearly defined as either necessary or discretionary, there are plenty that are in between, and these will be areas of potential difficulty. One example I will use is breast cancer screening - I believe that program is currently suspended. Another is regular dental checks - I have the latter at 6-monthly intervals, but it's now almost a year because dentists are doing emergency work only. 

It's an absolute minefield. At the present time I feel our whole approach to this pandemic is focussed on a daily dirge of numbers, and there is insufficient attention to how society can function when we turn the corner. The devil is always in the detail.

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1 hour ago, jw1739 said:

Well put. There are many aspects of life that fall into that necessity category - not least of which is buying food and other items - I would guess far more than are discretionary. And, as well as activities that can be clearly defined as either necessary or discretionary, there are plenty that are in between, and these will be areas of potential difficulty. One example I will use is breast cancer screening - I believe that program is currently suspended. Another is regular dental checks - I have the latter at 6-monthly intervals, but it's now almost a year because dentists are doing emergency work only. 

It's an absolute minefield. At the present time I feel our whole approach to this pandemic is focussed on a daily dirge of numbers, and there is insufficient attention to how society can function when we turn the corner. The devil is always in the detail.

Which is where the Federal parliament can introduce national legislation and the states can introduce complementary legislation. It does not even have to be permanent and be made to expire in say 3 years time. What I don't get, is why the governments are not investigating the options. We are likely to end up with piece meal approaches across the nation.

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17 hours ago, n i k o said:

Anyway that was a long round about way to say dont look at the unvaxxed. Look at the policy makers. These pathetic government officials and their puppets around and above them are causing your (our) problem. 

You would think a global emergency such as covid would unite all of our premiers and politicians. All it's done however is create an even greater divide and lead to a greater pissing match then ever seen before.

I am so over hearing how lockdowns and lockdown rules in general are being implemented because of "the science" when restrictions and lockdowns vary from state to state so dramatically.If this is the same virus we are all fighting then how come NSW have had more freedoms then VIC this entire pandemic? Even looking at the list of given freedoms after both states become 80% fully vaccinated (I believe), are so different it's silly.The fact that queensland haven't gone into lockdown after saying continuously that they would go into lockdown the minute they got cases, tells you all you need to know about "the science". "The science" is only useful when I'm explaining my bullshit lockdown restrictions, but if theirs a footy match on man nah, farken dw about it mate.

Governments all around Australia have completely absolved themselves of any responsibility too when it comes to when things go wrong during this pandemic. Case numbers go up? People must be doing the wrong thing. Promise something then don't deliver it? Oh I never said that, even though we have a video of you saying it.Have a government inquiry (2!) about massive covid fuck ups by the government, expecting heads to roll?No silly, people make mistakes lol, we'll do better next time! :) 

Then to top it all off, one government department finds another government department guilty of being negligent and what punishment do they get? A fine! This fine will be paid from one government industry, right back to another government industry?????? If the government were having an inquiry about any other industry not ran by them, heads would roll.A rule for thee but not for me in full effect unfortuantely.  

Governments are also trying to enforce a medical procedure onto people which is ridiculous.This is some seriously shady shit, essentially making people choose the right to life freely, or to put food on the table.The biggest encrochment on human rights I have ever seen in my life.

All I hope after all of this shit is over is that their is a major cleanout of policticians all throughout the country.It's good to see Gladys go, hopefully andrews and sco mo are next.What a let down they have been during such a challenging time

 

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21 hours ago, HeartFc said:

Latest update in NSW, 95% of covid cases in ICU have been jabbed.

Ha.

:wormy:

Sooner or later we'll come across the vaccine paradox, the greater the percentage vaccinated, the greater the percentage of vaccinated people in ICU (eg, if 100% are vaccinated then 100% of any ICU admissions will be vaccinated)..

The vaccine reduces risk, it doesn't eliminate risk until we get to >95% vaccination rate. Here's a good article on it

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4 hours ago, jw1739 said:

And suddenly we're can have international travel but I can't move around my own city, let alone my home State.

Time to rewrite the constitution.

Time to dissolve Australia and just let every state become their own colony, just like the good old days 😅

What's the point of the federal government if they don't do anything?

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16 hours ago, haz said:

Foley got his words mixed up in the presser. 

It's 95%+ UN-Vaccinated

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-29/unvaccinated-make-up-98-per-cent-of-total-icu-covid-cases/13563118

How he gets THOSE words mixed up, ill never know. That's Sleepy Joe level of retardation. 

I guess I stand corrected and that makes a little more sense.

 

 

Foley still grants a wormy IMO... 3 in fact

:wormy::wormy::wormy:

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10 hours ago, HeartFc said:

How he gets THOSE words mixed up, ill never know. That's Sleepy Joe level of retardation. 

I guess I stand corrected and that makes a little more sense.

 

 

Foley still grants a wormy IMO... 3 in fact

:wormy::wormy::wormy:

Actually, it's very simple, and arises because he's doing a live presser, hasn't been prepared properly, and has too much information to cover. When you're involved in press and public relations you have to have a simple message and stay on it and I do speak from experience. The best example that I know of is Neville Wran after a successful NSW election who had one message and stayed on it - the message was that "today the people of NSW have made the right choice." He repeated it over and over again, almost irrespective of the question he was asked, with the result that the headlines the next morning were "The right choice, says Wran."

Foley's message should have been "95% of those in intensive care have not been fully vaccinated" - nothing else. Even the choice of the word "unvaccinated" is poor - it's so easy for the "un" syllable to sound like a mumble. And the answer to any question of detail? - "95% of those in intensive care have not been fully vaccinated" - there is no need for detail.

It was another failure in how our governments plural just fail, fail and fail again. Morrison is angry and aggressive and rejects any personal responsibility ("I don't hold the hose, mate"), Andrews whines about everyone else and rapidly slips from encouragement to punishment, and on and on we go. They can't even get their PR right so we have no hope.

Edited by jw1739
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We have now entered dangerous territory. 

To mandate all permitted workers be vaccinated is IMO going to be a tipping point of general acceptance by the general community. 

Now for the record I am a permitted worker and have been double vaccinated and have chosen to do so freely because it just makes sense. 

But to mandate vaccination is going too far, Andrews has panicked and resorting to just a dumb and counterproductive strategy, those who were borderline or just couldn't be fucked so far to be vaccinated are more than likely not do it now at all and those who have already refused will now have a more legitimate reason to oppose vaccination. 

Ultimately we will always have reached an extremely high percentage of vaccination just down to basic common sense but trying to force the minority will only strengthen the arguments of the radical fringe. 

Just stupid and creating unnecessary conflicts.

Edited by Jovan
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12 hours ago, Shahanga said:

I know he has a massive media unit but surely people are starting to see through his bullshit and incompetence now?

It's hard for everyone, but if we start opening up with hospitals at or overcapacity, don't expect much quality healthcare for any health issue until 2023. There will already be long-term repercussions with staff burnout, paramedics and nurses will be in very short supply for years after the pandemic, doctors are taking extended leave. This is the situation we have been trying to avoid.

I work as a volunteer in a support network for frontline health professionals, I can tell you that it is already very concerning.

8 minutes ago, Jovan said:

We have now entered dangerous territory. 

To mandate all permitted workers be vaccinated is IMO going to be a tipping point of general acceptance by the general community. 

Now for the record I am a permitted worker and have been double vaccinated and have chosen to do so freely because it just makes sense. 

But to mandate vaccination is going too far, Andrews has panicked and resorting to just a dumb and counterproductive strategy, those who were borderline or just couldn't be fucked so far to be vaccinated are more than likely not do it now at all and those who have already refused will now have a more legitimate reason to oppose vaccination. 

Ultimately we will always have reached an extremely high percentage of vaccination just down to basic common sense but trying to force the minority will only strengthen the arguments of the radical fringe. 

Just stupid and creating unnecessary conflicts.

Vaccines aren't mandated, just mandated if you want t continue to work. It sounds like a semantic difference, but where we are heading is a situation where we'll have continued restrictions on those who have cooperated with health advice in order to protect those that don't give a shit about the community. 

If you don't want to be vaccinated then please don't, but stay home for your own safety and for the safety of those that have taken on the personal risk of vaccination.

Edited by belaguttman
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IMO we're all on the same songsheet but we're singing different words. The strategy should be (have been) to encourage as high a level of vaccination as could be achieved. We should have done that by encouragement and not under threat of punishment or repercussion. And I'm talking nationally here. Instead we have set a strategy of separating the haves and have nots - even to the point of who can go to the local park with their children and who they can go with. We've done it by State, by local government area, by our occupations, and now by vaccination status.

Our management of the pandemic, from a dream starting point, has failed because of failed messaging. Does anyone know the rules in Melbourne any more? Do they make sense? Apparently I can now go 15km for any one of 5 reasons - or is it 6? But we're about to start international travel again?

@belaguttman IMO most people would accept your point about not overwhelming our health services and their staff. I understand your message and I'm sure everyone on here does, because you've given that message consistently and regularly. But where is it from our leaders? It isn't there. Morrison just craps on about "opening up" and Andrews has resorted to mandatory vaccination.

18 months is too long. Our governments have failed us.

 

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55 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

IMO we're all on the same songsheet but we're singing different words. The strategy should be (have been) to encourage as high a level of vaccination as could be achieved. We should have done that by encouragement and not under threat of punishment or repercussion. And I'm talking nationally here. Instead we have set a strategy of separating the haves and have nots - even to the point of who can go to the local park with their children and who they can go with. We've done it by State, by local government area, by our occupations, and now by vaccination status.

Our management of the pandemic, from a dream starting point, has failed because of failed messaging. Does anyone know the rules in Melbourne any more? Do they make sense? Apparently I can now go 15km for any one of 5 reasons - or is it 6? But we're about to start international travel again?

@belaguttman IMO most people would accept your point about not overwhelming our health services and their staff. I understand your message and I'm sure everyone on here does, because you've given that message consistently and regularly. But where is it from our leaders? It isn't there. Morrison just craps on about "opening up" and Andrews has resorted to mandatory vaccination.

18 months is too long. Our governments have failed us.

 

The problem is that the vaccinophilic citizens had to wait because of supply constraints (its not a race) so encouraging people to get a vaccine and then telling them that they can't make a booking is just going to alienate people. Not only do you need a first dose for them, you also need a guaranteed second dose available at whatever the dose interval of the vaccine given before you can make the appointment. We haven't been in that position because the only vaccine we've had in adequate supply has been AZ and the messaging from the Government around that was so poor that many people have put themselves at risk by avoiding it.

We are at a different phase of the vaccination campaign now. Supply issues have now led to a pandemic of the young as they've had to wait even if they wanted the vaccine. Kids still have no pathway to vaccination (can't blame the Federal Government for that one). We do need a combination of carrots and sticks, I still suggest my $10,000 vaccination completion payment would have put the vaccine hesitancy issue to bed quickly.

Covid, as usual, has highlighted failures in the system, health responsibility is divided between State, Federal and local Government so there has never been an overall health strategy on any issue, ever! Try working in that system! It's been highlighted by the Federal leadership vacuum and Federal abrogation of responsibility, the cheap politicking by all State and Federal leaders, and gross underinvestment in health for 40 years. If you think its bad in the city, you should come to the country!

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2 hours ago, belaguttman said:

It's hard for everyone, but if we start opening up with hospitals at or overcapacity, don't expect much quality healthcare for any health issue until 2023. There will already be long-term repercussions with staff burnout, paramedics and nurses will be in very short supply for years after the pandemic, doctors are taking extended leave. This is the situation we have been trying to avoid.

I work as a volunteer in a support network for frontline health professionals, I can tell you that it is already very concerning.

Vaccines aren't mandated, just mandated if you want t continue to work. It sounds like a semantic difference, but where we are heading is a situation where we'll have continued restrictions on those who have cooperated with health advice in order to protect those that don't give a shit about the community. 

If you don't want to be vaccinated then please don't, but stay home for your own safety and for the safety of those that have taken on the personal risk of vaccination.

I see where you’re coming from in regards to the health system bela, my problem is that Andrews has had almost 2 years to prepare for this, promised to do so (4000 extra icu beds) then done nothing. Now his “solution” is to lock me, you and everyone else up some more. Having already set a world record for lockdowns.

So our freedom is dependent on his competence. In short we’re fucked.

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