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29 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

I suppose a lot depends on which particular way of life you're referring to. For example, a bloke like me can't understand why anyone would be anti-vaccination when you look at how many lives have been saved and disabilities avoided by various vaccines. I sat next to a lad in Primary School, indeed every day I'd meet him at his place and we'd ride the last mile together on our bikes (another way of life, before Mum's taxi). One day he was unwell and couldn't join me. The next he was ill in hospital. It was polio. He ended up with a crook leg in a leg-iron. When you've been that close (I didn't get it BTW - some miracle or other) you believe in vaccines.

Oh I’m all for vaccines.

im not keen on banning  kids from school or playgrounds for instance.

im not keen on curfews.

im not keen on random rules because it makes life easier for a dictator.

im not keen on one rule for the masses and another for the elite.

Edited by Shahanga
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57 minutes ago, NewConvert said:

Libertarianism is the opposite side of communism. Which is why neither ism has ever established a successful society. Take that back - highland PNG were as close as a libertarian society as you can get but cannibalism was never a thing elsewhere.

Not sure that’s true of the Highlands. Very much a patriarchal oligarchy with community consensus within the group (and violence against outsiders). I suspect many Hunter gatherer type groups had similar societies. Aboriginal groups were similar but my knowledge suggests consensus was less important than the patriarchs and no where near as violent.
Not really libertarian, cross the patriarchs at your peril. 

The United States has had a lot of respect for liberty, particularly in their glory years. Perhaps less so now, when , from here at least, they appear to be in decline. They are probably the best example of a society focusing on small government. They’ve only had Payee tax for a century for instance.

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  • 1 month later...
22 hours ago, jw1739 said:

The Nationals must be the biggest collection of fuckwits ever. Addressing climate change is a huge opportunity for the rural sector, not a threat.

Actually they are the only ones with any brains.

Theyll all be unemployed if they stick with Bill Morrison 

In other news anyone else watching IBAC with interest?

Going to be quite a few charges out of this the way it’s going.

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3 hours ago, Shahanga said:

Actually they are the only ones with any brains.

Theyll all be unemployed if they stick with Bill Morrison 

In other news anyone else watching IBAC with interest?

Going to be quite a few charges out of this the way it’s going.

The only figure I read was with regards to $17k of taxpayers money. The other is relating to using staff for party matters which is more substantial but it all seems to be point to Adem S. As for the councillors testimony using the words "I assume" will most likely discount his testimony unless there is additional corroborating evidence. Otherwise its embarrasing but rorting the party rules is not a crime. Just like the former Chrysler exec who abused his position for real $M he never was charged and Chrysler had to use the personal litigation to reach a settlement.

What I am annoyed is why hasn't IBAC continued the corrupt developer/councillors in the SE region investigation continued?

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I think you missed a few things @NewConvert.

Mr Garotti sounds like he’s in a great deal of trouble:

1. There seems to be about 100k in double counting grants. 

2.there is the case of awarding tenders to mates (70k). 

3. There is employing people on the government payroll because they are mates.

Not my ideas, Mr Garotti agreed this with counsel.

Earlier days included people employed by the government/taxpayer  (as electoral officers) doing political (factional) work

people employed by the taxpayer not turning up at all

and a few other things they may be able to weasel out of like vast sums on stamps spent on nefarious purposes and unauthorised access of the electoral roll.

Obviously the blatant breach of alp rules  and complete absence of ethics in all the branch stacking shenanigans is embarrassing for the ALP themselves, though not illegal.

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8 hours ago, Shahanga said:

I think you missed a few things @NewConvert.

Mr Garotti sounds like he’s in a great deal of trouble:

1. There seems to be about 100k in double counting grants. 

2.there is the case of awarding tenders to mates (70k). 

3. There is employing people on the government payroll because they are mates.

Not my ideas, Mr Garotti agreed this with counsel.

Earlier days included people employed by the government/taxpayer  (as electoral officers) doing political (factional) work

people employed by the taxpayer not turning up at all

and a few other things they may be able to weasel out of like vast sums on stamps spent on nefarious purposes and unauthorised access of the electoral roll.

Obviously the blatant breach of alp rules  and complete absence of ethics in all the branch stacking shenanigans is embarrassing for the ALP themselves, though not illegal.

As follows:

1. Need to have evidence that can stand up in court. What has been reported says there are allegations but prosecuting a case is harder.

2. How is that different to any other government that has ever been in existence? Kennett was infamous for his no-bid contracts. In any case is there a specific law that says that you cannot award contract to mates?

3. See 2. Also a common practice in industry. When we recruit we always get asked by management whether we know people that would be suitable for approaching - obviously no one recommends a complete stranger.

4. Political/factional work definitely illegal (and has been for decades)  but I have never heard anyone being prosecuted for it. Also I don't know who would get prosecuted - the person doing the hiring, the office manager, the MP, the person doing the political work.

5. Not showing up at work happens in industry at well. I have always known that the missing person gets sacked (with one exception due to domestic violence where staff and the company took a very benign view). So is it against the law? This would be a test case.

Definitely embarrassing for the ALP. And with the shenanigans in the SE councils and NSW, I fear that mass disillusionment is about to set in.

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59 minutes ago, NewConvert said:

2. How is that different to any other government that has ever been in existence? Kennett was infamous for his no-bid contracts. In any case is there a specific law that says that you cannot award contract to mates?

Precisely. Government involvement in anything is synonymous with lack of oversight and accountability, cost blow-outs, budget over-runs, completion delays and failures, and the list goes on and on. Federal, State and Local. Bayside Council spent $80,000 on a park bench, a tree and some pine bark. The blatant corruption in the Education Department a couple of years ago. Even any Enquiries or Commissions into these things seem to me to consume amounts of money so large that I can't see where it can go. We are a very highly taxed and under-delivering country.

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  • 5 months later...

Surprised this hasn't got a kick-along now that we're in election mode. God I'm sick of short term hand-out promises by political parties where we rarely see any "promise" deliver anything except rearrangement of the deckchairs and most of the extra dosh, even if it's real, wasted on administration. As for tricker questions at press conferences - who cares if there's the occasional mistake in an answer?

As the Premier of SA says, we need a vision for Australia, for 10, 25, 50 even 100 years  on how we're going to become a healthy, happy and prosperous nation and then remain so. A long-term view that transcends short-term pettiness. I couldn't care a fuck about oiling the squeakiest local wheels - I want a vision that embraces us all, and a song sheet that we are all going to sing from.

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11 hours ago, jw1739 said:

Surprised this hasn't got a kick-along now that we're in election mode. God I'm sick of short term hand-out promises by political parties where we rarely see any "promise" deliver anything except rearrangement of the deckchairs and most of the extra dosh, even if it's real, wasted on administration. As for tricker questions at press conferences - who cares if there's the occasional mistake in an answer?

As the Premier of SA says, we need a vision for Australia, for 10, 25, 50 even 100 years  on how we're going to become a healthy, happy and prosperous nation and then remain so. A long-term view that transcends short-term pettiness. I couldn't care a fuck about oiling the squeakiest local wheels - I want a vision that embraces us all, and a song sheet that we are all going to sing from.

Totally agree with you but the electorate doesn't.

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Annabel at her best.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-18/election-2022-morrison-albanese-back-to-the-future/100997488

And of course in the middle of all that, we've still somehow made room to have a refreshingly pointless shoutfest about the participation of trans women in women's sport, a matter about which no party seeking election is proposing to legislate or indeed do anything at all, but what a lovely ranty topic it is to be tossed about by opinionated folk, none of whom have to clean up any of the mess this sort of fissile bloviation creates in the real lives of real people."

Edited by jw1739
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1 hour ago, kingofhearts said:

Surely Sco Mo doesn't get in for another term? How are people voting this year? I'm thinking of putting either the greens or labour at the top of my ballot.

I confess I don't know where to put my vote. I cannot bring myself to vote for the Coalition whilst the current "leadership" team is in power.  I won't vote for a minor party because although they may have some attractive policy ideas I don't believe that they can gain enough influence to implement them. It appears that I have to vote Labour to have any chance of using my vote to achieve anything, but it goes against the grain. If I do vote Labour I will rationalise the decision by supporting a long-serving MP who is a QC and has served his electorate since 2007 and has held senior positions in the parliamentary structure; surely he must be able to do the job effectively, efficiently, honestly and with humility?

In its present state, over quite a long period now, our government has served neither the community nor the country. I almost wept when I read Annabel Crabb's article because it is so true. We owe it to future generations of Australians to do better.

Apologies for the emotion. When you get old you do think of these things.

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South American friends and I were discussing how the Coalition is making Australia look more and more like any other South American country. I live in a safe Labor seat so that won't make much difference but for the Senate the coalition will go just above one nation.

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Fuck I hate these so-called "election campaigns." So focussed on personalities, so shallow, no substance, all froth and bubble photoshoots and one-liners, promises, promises. Fuck how can people be taken in by this shit?

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2 hours ago, jw1739 said:

Fuck I hate these so-called "election campaigns." So focussed on personalities, so shallow, no substance, all froth and bubble photoshoots and one-liners, promises, promises. Fuck how can people be taken in by this shit?

I am avoiding the news precisely for that reason.

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2 hours ago, NewConvert said:

I am avoiding the news precisely for that reason.

Same here. I'd like to think I'm switched on enough to do my own research without needing to hear all the election promotion that's spewed out. 

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The other thing that's pissing me off about this election campaign is that it seems impossible for any speaker of any political persuasion to answer a question without later having to apologise to someone or some group who take offence at a word or words used in the answer.

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5 hours ago, jw1739 said:

The other thing that's pissing me off about this election campaign is that it seems impossible for any speaker of any political persuasion to answer a question without later having to apologise to someone or some group who take offence at a word or words used in the answer.

One of the reasons I never got promoted was because I had to apologise to so many higher ups. I lost count the number of managers I told to f*ck off and to go and neck themselves. Actually, I have rarely had top apologise because I refuse to. So nothing changes.

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43 minutes ago, NewConvert said:

One of the reasons I never got promoted was because I had to apologise to so many higher ups. I lost count the number of managers I told to f*ck off and to go and neck themselves. Actually, I have rarely had top apologise because I refuse to. So nothing changes.

You know I can't stand Morrison, but the hoo-ha over his use of "blessed" is beyond the pale IMO. In no way was he demeaning disabled people or their parents. Rather, he was recognising that parents of disabled children have additional burdens to carry above those carried by everyone else.

When I was young it was common chatter for mothers to use words such as "I'm so lucky that my little lad has all his fingers and toes" and similar. They were dealing with measles and after effects thereof (I nearly died from it), polio, later Thalidomide, and so on. In no way was it derogatory to anyone.

This current campaign is giving me the shits.

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This is the sort of national issue that should be being addressed in this country, not a handful of trans-gender athletes.

"Honestly, we're fortunate that they're still serving us, every container shipping line serving Australia is foreign-owned," he said.

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4 hours ago, jw1739 said:

This is the sort of national issue that should be being addressed in this country, not a handful of trans-gender athletes.

"Honestly, we're fortunate that they're still serving us, every container shipping line serving Australia is foreign-owned," he said.

I asked that question 36 years ago. Two reasons: one the nationalist point of view and the second one is why would any northern hemisphere shipping line bother visiting the southern hemisphere given that most of the countries in the southern hemisphere are so poor. The answer was that there are not many container shipping lines world wide in the first place as scale means that they have swallowed one another big time (yes there are some small lines but they don't bother the stats). The second is that there is an international agreement that reduces tariffs when they visit the south.

So not a new question nor is anybody doing anything about it. It's all about the cost of living until it isn't.

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WTF do I have to number all the candidates on the House of Representative ballot paper and at least 6 groups if I vote above the line for the Senate when I wouldn't want most of them in Parliament in a fit?

Why can't we have Optional Preferential Voting?

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  • 3 weeks later...

Is this the worst election "campaign" ever?

I recently moved from (well, it was) a safe Liberal seat into a safe Labor seat.

I've had two items in my letter box about the election so far, both from the incumbent Labor member, his only promise as far as I can see being a new "warm-water pool" for one suburb in the electorate (should that really be a matter for the Federal Government?). There are seven candidates altogether for the lower House and I haven't received a thing from the other six, which includes the Liberal candidate, and I've never heard of the other six anyway.

Perhaps this is the age of the internet rather than the letter box, but I'm switched off from the whole election thing I'm afraid.

 

Edited by jw1739
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4 hours ago, jw1739 said:

Is this the worst election "campaign" ever?

I recently moved from (well, it was) a safe Liberal seat into a safe Labor seat.

I've had two items in my letter box about the election so far, both from the incumbent Labor member, his only promise as far as I can see being a new "warm-water pool" for one suburb in the electorate (should that really be a matter for the Federal Government?). There are seven candidates altogether for the lower House and I haven't received a thing from the other six, which includes the Liberal candidate, and I've never heard of the other six anyway.

Perhaps this is the age of the internet rather than the letter box, but I'm switched off from the whole election thing I'm afraid.

 

I only have had one item from the incumbent (safe labour seat). But my YouTube experience is getting bombarded by Clive Palmer, Greens and ALP. Nothing from the Coalition. I suspect that thanks to Google and data analytics, targetted advertising is all the rage.

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1 hour ago, NewConvert said:

Voting postal and it is so hard whether to put the anti-vaxxers last or Clive last...

Same here. Hence I think we should have optional preferential voting. To me it is decidedly "undemocratic" to have to give any sort of "vote" to someone whom I don't want in the Parliament under any circumstances.

The Senate is better now. Above the line is essentially optional preferential voting.

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7 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

Same here. Hence I think we should have optional preferential voting. To me it is decidedly "undemocratic" to have to give any sort of "vote" to someone whom I don't want in the Parliament under any circumstances.

The Senate is better now. Above the line is essentially optional preferential voting.

I like the current preferential voting system. But it really should be viewed as voting for the party you least want to get voted in (by giving the highest number) as opposed to voting for a party.

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5 hours ago, jw1739 said:

Same here. Hence I think we should have optional preferential voting. To me it is decidedly "undemocratic" to have to give any sort of "vote" to someone whom I don't want in the Parliament under any circumstances.

The Senate is better now. Above the line is essentially optional preferential voting.

I had eight candidates. I would doubt very much whether 6th, 7th or 8th placing would be of any use.

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1 hour ago, NewConvert said:

And thankfully this is is almost over. And I never want to hear from Craig Kelly again nor Clive Palmer but I suspect that only the Grim Reaper will save us from the latter.

I have never before felt so completely disconnected from the process or the outcome as I have this time around.

There's an article by Stan Grant somewhere about the decline, or indeed death, of liberal democracy. Perhaps he's right.

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