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3 hours ago, Shahanga said:

Anyone else had enough of this authoritarian bullshit?

Rubber fucking bullets were the last straw for me. I’m joining a Libertarian political party (never thought I’d join a party, guess you never know) and am going to stand up for our way of life (that we once had)

I suppose a lot depends on which particular way of life you're referring to. For example, a bloke like me can't understand why anyone would be anti-vaccination when you look at how many lives have been saved and disabilities avoided by various vaccines. I sat next to a lad in Primary School, indeed every day I'd meet him at his place and we'd ride the last mile together on our bikes (another way of life, before Mum's taxi). One day he was unwell and couldn't join me. The next he was ill in hospital. It was polio. He ended up with a crook leg in a leg-iron. When you've been that close (I didn't get it BTW - some miracle or other) you believe in vaccines.

Edited by jw1739
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29 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

I suppose a lot depends on which particular way of life you're referring to. For example, a bloke like me can't understand why anyone would be anti-vaccination when you look at how many lives have been saved and disabilities avoided by various vaccines. I sat next to a lad in Primary School, indeed every day I'd meet him at his place and we'd ride the last mile together on our bikes (another way of life, before Mum's taxi). One day he was unwell and couldn't join me. The next he was ill in hospital. It was polio. He ended up with a crook leg in a leg-iron. When you've been that close (I didn't get it BTW - some miracle or other) you believe in vaccines.

Oh I’m all for vaccines.

im not keen on banning  kids from school or playgrounds for instance.

im not keen on curfews.

im not keen on random rules because it makes life easier for a dictator.

im not keen on one rule for the masses and another for the elite.

Edited by Shahanga
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57 minutes ago, NewConvert said:

Libertarianism is the opposite side of communism. Which is why neither ism has ever established a successful society. Take that back - highland PNG were as close as a libertarian society as you can get but cannibalism was never a thing elsewhere.

Not sure that’s true of the Highlands. Very much a patriarchal oligarchy with community consensus within the group (and violence against outsiders). I suspect many Hunter gatherer type groups had similar societies. Aboriginal groups were similar but my knowledge suggests consensus was less important than the patriarchs and no where near as violent.
Not really libertarian, cross the patriarchs at your peril. 

The United States has had a lot of respect for liberty, particularly in their glory years. Perhaps less so now, when , from here at least, they appear to be in decline. They are probably the best example of a society focusing on small government. They’ve only had Payee tax for a century for instance.

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  • 1 month later...
1 hour ago, jw1739 said:

The Nationals must be the biggest collection of fuckwits ever. Addressing climate change is a huge opportunity for the rural sector, not a threat.

I am leaning your way but there is a brain cell that says that they are holding out for personal gain rather than their constituents.

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22 hours ago, jw1739 said:

The Nationals must be the biggest collection of fuckwits ever. Addressing climate change is a huge opportunity for the rural sector, not a threat.

Actually they are the only ones with any brains.

Theyll all be unemployed if they stick with Bill Morrison 

In other news anyone else watching IBAC with interest?

Going to be quite a few charges out of this the way it’s going.

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3 hours ago, Shahanga said:

Actually they are the only ones with any brains.

Theyll all be unemployed if they stick with Bill Morrison 

In other news anyone else watching IBAC with interest?

Going to be quite a few charges out of this the way it’s going.

The only figure I read was with regards to $17k of taxpayers money. The other is relating to using staff for party matters which is more substantial but it all seems to be point to Adem S. As for the councillors testimony using the words "I assume" will most likely discount his testimony unless there is additional corroborating evidence. Otherwise its embarrasing but rorting the party rules is not a crime. Just like the former Chrysler exec who abused his position for real $M he never was charged and Chrysler had to use the personal litigation to reach a settlement.

What I am annoyed is why hasn't IBAC continued the corrupt developer/councillors in the SE region investigation continued?

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I think you missed a few things @NewConvert.

Mr Garotti sounds like he’s in a great deal of trouble:

1. There seems to be about 100k in double counting grants. 

2.there is the case of awarding tenders to mates (70k). 

3. There is employing people on the government payroll because they are mates.

Not my ideas, Mr Garotti agreed this with counsel.

Earlier days included people employed by the government/taxpayer  (as electoral officers) doing political (factional) work

people employed by the taxpayer not turning up at all

and a few other things they may be able to weasel out of like vast sums on stamps spent on nefarious purposes and unauthorised access of the electoral roll.

Obviously the blatant breach of alp rules  and complete absence of ethics in all the branch stacking shenanigans is embarrassing for the ALP themselves, though not illegal.

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8 hours ago, Shahanga said:

I think you missed a few things @NewConvert.

Mr Garotti sounds like he’s in a great deal of trouble:

1. There seems to be about 100k in double counting grants. 

2.there is the case of awarding tenders to mates (70k). 

3. There is employing people on the government payroll because they are mates.

Not my ideas, Mr Garotti agreed this with counsel.

Earlier days included people employed by the government/taxpayer  (as electoral officers) doing political (factional) work

people employed by the taxpayer not turning up at all

and a few other things they may be able to weasel out of like vast sums on stamps spent on nefarious purposes and unauthorised access of the electoral roll.

Obviously the blatant breach of alp rules  and complete absence of ethics in all the branch stacking shenanigans is embarrassing for the ALP themselves, though not illegal.

As follows:

1. Need to have evidence that can stand up in court. What has been reported says there are allegations but prosecuting a case is harder.

2. How is that different to any other government that has ever been in existence? Kennett was infamous for his no-bid contracts. In any case is there a specific law that says that you cannot award contract to mates?

3. See 2. Also a common practice in industry. When we recruit we always get asked by management whether we know people that would be suitable for approaching - obviously no one recommends a complete stranger.

4. Political/factional work definitely illegal (and has been for decades)  but I have never heard anyone being prosecuted for it. Also I don't know who would get prosecuted - the person doing the hiring, the office manager, the MP, the person doing the political work.

5. Not showing up at work happens in industry at well. I have always known that the missing person gets sacked (with one exception due to domestic violence where staff and the company took a very benign view). So is it against the law? This would be a test case.

Definitely embarrassing for the ALP. And with the shenanigans in the SE councils and NSW, I fear that mass disillusionment is about to set in.

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59 minutes ago, NewConvert said:

2. How is that different to any other government that has ever been in existence? Kennett was infamous for his no-bid contracts. In any case is there a specific law that says that you cannot award contract to mates?

Precisely. Government involvement in anything is synonymous with lack of oversight and accountability, cost blow-outs, budget over-runs, completion delays and failures, and the list goes on and on. Federal, State and Local. Bayside Council spent $80,000 on a park bench, a tree and some pine bark. The blatant corruption in the Education Department a couple of years ago. Even any Enquiries or Commissions into these things seem to me to consume amounts of money so large that I can't see where it can go. We are a very highly taxed and under-delivering country.

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