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  • 2 months later...

A Constitutional Expert once compared Australian Local Councils to Insects...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theage.com.au/national/victoria/hume-councillor-accused-of-travel-rorts-and-misogyny-20200520-p54uvt.html

Turns out some of the key signers of the "Terrace Inclusive Act" and "Bay 16 Opposition Spokesman for YSIDE Core Public Affairs" may have not been such big fighters for the rights of oppressed  after all... :droy:

A man who hates "outwardly gay men" whatever the fuck that means... hatred towards  Limp Wrists?

Who knows - I def do not. :ph34r:

He is also apparently an advocate of bottling women to gain promotion in petty politics.

And best of all a dislike for mixed marriages... Are we in 1920's Louisiana?

Makes you wonder what the former female Bi-sexual Supras Mob Photo  member would be thinking of her former colleague.

PS: 7 - 0 @kingofhearts ya dumb bald Kent.:up:

 

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21 hours ago, cadete said:

A Constitutional Expert once compared Australian Local Councils to Insects...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theage.com.au/national/victoria/hume-councillor-accused-of-travel-rorts-and-misogyny-20200520-p54uvt.html

Turns out some of the key signers of the "Terrace Inclusive Act" and "Bay 16 Opposition Spokesman for YSIDE Core Public Affairs" may have not been such big fighters for the rights of oppressed  after all... :droy:

A man who hates "outwardly gay men" whatever the fuck that means... hatred towards  Limp Wrists?

Who knows - I def do not. :ph34r:

He is also apparently an advocate of bottling women to gain promotion in petty politics.

And best of all a dislike for mixed marriages... Are we in 1920's Louisiana?

Makes you wonder what the former female Bi-sexual Supras Mob Photo  member would be thinking of her former colleague.

PS: 7 - 0 @kingofhearts ya dumb bald Kent.:up:

 

Heck. 

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6 minutes ago, moops said:

How about that belt and road initiative good ol' Andrews has got us into, it's alright, he is creating jobs for Chinese.

Probably wants "Some Mad Ethnic Points" like the former Supras Member for Hume.

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16 hours ago, HeartFc said:

Coronavirus is the best thing to happen to Australia since seat belts.

I don't know, the only thing that has changed for me is I can't go out for fun, otherwise nothing has changed. I still go to work, do a bit of shopping on the way home, nothing really has changed for me and certainly nothing positive.

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3 minutes ago, moops said:

I don't know, the only thing that has changed for me is I can't go out for fun, otherwise nothing has changed. I still go to work, do a bit of shopping on the way home, nothing really has changed for me and certainly nothing positive.

If you're in the "target demographic" it has produced big negative changes.

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  • 3 weeks later...

how about that Andrews government? Top of the pops, scandles and corruption rife amoungst his party, I was 'sic' truly shocked.

How about the greens, saying that Victoria is offensive!

I thought it was a troll attempt until I recognised it was serious and I read the post crunching on my Coco Pops!

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On 23/05/2020 at 8:09 PM, cadete said:

A Constitutional Expert once compared Australian Local Councils to Insects...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theage.com.au/national/victoria/hume-councillor-accused-of-travel-rorts-and-misogyny-20200520-p54uvt.html

Turns out some of the key signers of the "Terrace Inclusive Act" and "Bay 16 Opposition Spokesman for YSIDE Core Public Affairs" may have not been such big fighters for the rights of oppressed  after all... :droy:

A man who hates "outwardly gay men" whatever the fuck that means... hatred towards  Limp Wrists?

Who knows - I def do not. :ph34r:

He is also apparently an advocate of bottling women to gain promotion in petty politics.

And best of all a dislike for mixed marriages... Are we in 1920's Louisiana?

Makes you wonder what the former female Bi-sexual Supras Mob Photo  member would be thinking of her former colleague.

PS: 7 - 0 @kingofhearts ya dumb bald Kent.:up:

 

Lol - And now his story has gone and started to highlight and bring down all the other dodge "actually real"  Turk ALP Politicians.

Cya later CHAPS... hope you had fun in your small window of opportunity of branch stacking. We will be taking out party back.

All because to @FB. saving $5 bucks of petrol is worth saving $1000 in Mick land..

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9 hours ago, cadete said:

Lol - And now his story has gone and started to highlight and bring down all the other dodge "actually real"  Turk ALP Politicians.

Cya later CHAPS... hope you had fun in your small window of opportunity of branch stacking. We will be taking out party back.

All because to @FB. saving $5 bucks of petrol is worth saving $1000 in Mick land..

When did you go ALP?

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13 hours ago, NewConvert said:

When did you go ALP?

If u read through the thread a long time ago...

When Malcom (Despite being Catholic) wanted to stop funding to Catholic Primary Schools.

Which is a joke as in a places like Richmond or Redfern, all the Sudanese and Vietnamese kids have to go to the small Catholic School (Some for free) as the Primary Schools are completely full of Anglo Yuppies Kids.

It was a one inch move across the line of the center from Big L Liberal to Right Faction ALP.

 

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  • 1 month later...
17 hours ago, moops said:

No ones commented on Andrews lying twice about federal support, how anyone supports this guy is beyond my comprehension.

I don't understand how both he and Morrison are escaping intense and sustained criticism over their handling of the virus crisis - Andrews over hotel quarantine and Morrison over aged care. Our media is as weak as piss.

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On 17/08/2020 at 10:22 AM, jw1739 said:

I don't understand how both he and Morrison are escaping intense and sustained criticism over their handling of the virus crisis - Andrews over hotel quarantine and Morrison over aged care. Our media is as weak as piss.

How about Scomo saying Vaccination will be pretty much mandatory?

If I had a choice I would wait a year and see how the eager beavers fared, under the constitution the government cannot force any kind of medical procedure on the public.

I also heard that the state of emergency cannot last more than six months, to safeguard against dodgy government. Andrews said last week he has lawyers working on extending the state of emergency? China only knows.

Life could be back to normal in September, unless Comrade Andrews has his way.

Fuck the new normal.

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10 hours ago, moops said:

How about Scomo saying Vaccination will be pretty much mandatory?

If I had a choice I would wait a year and see how the eager beavers fared, under the constitution the government cannot force any kind of medical procedure on the public.

I also heard that the state of emergency cannot last more than six months, to safeguard against dodgy government. Andrews said last week he has lawyers working on extending the state of emergency? China only knows.

Life could be back to normal in September, unless Comrade Andrews has his way.

Fuck the new normal.

What section of the constitution states that? I have read it a couple of times and nothing comes to mind.

And just for clarification there are two items of law: state of emergency and state of disaster. The former applies to the Chief Health Officer and the six months runs out on September 13 at midnight. To extend that Parliament would need to amend the law (unless there is a loop hole somewhere). And right now if it were put to a plebiscite the over 60s would carry the day by extending it for another year. The state of emergency applies to the police/fire brigade/etc. And that requires cabinet to extend it - there is no need to amend any laws. Right now both laws are active.

As for Comrade Andrews, talk to people who fought against the communists to see whether he qualifies.

 

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19 hours ago, NewConvert said:

What section of the constitution states that? I have read it a couple of times and nothing comes to mind.

And just for clarification there are two items of law: state of emergency and state of disaster. The former applies to the Chief Health Officer and the six months runs out on September 13 at midnight. To extend that Parliament would need to amend the law (unless there is a loop hole somewhere). And right now if it were put to a plebiscite the over 60s would carry the day by extending it for another year. The state of emergency applies to the police/fire brigade/etc. And that requires cabinet to extend it - there is no need to amend any laws. Right now both laws are active.

As for Comrade Andrews, talk to people who fought against the communists to see whether he qualifies.

 

Give me some time on the constitution thing, I remember it, I just have to find it to satisfy your criteria.

'And right now if it were put to a plebiscite the over 60s would carry the day by extending it for another year' bold statement, people are sick and tired of the covid thing, the whole business makes no sense. There have been more deaths from influenza.

Andrews will have made tonnes of money just from keeping the construction sector going, a workmate of mine said 'they force us to work during lockdown and they will make it mandatory to work with a vaccine'

kind of authoritarian communist way to go about things.

Actually, I just laid beside my cat and pat it for about 3 hours, I'm not very motivated to prove a point, tomorrow will be a rare day off, shit has to be done. You are low on the list dude.

I've never knowen a cat that likes belly rubs, this cat does.

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7 hours ago, Shahanga said:

Now Dan Jong Un wants to extend the state of emergency for another year. Fuck Me.

Just had a quick look at the legislation for other states and it appears Victoria is the only one with legislative termination date. All the other states are just extended by the cabinet upon the advice of the CHO.

Once this is over of sorts, I would like to see all jurisdictions synchronise their legislation. It makes no sense to me to have Victoria being the odd man out. It also makes no sense to have a legislative termination on a health law but not so the disaster laws which are decided by the Police Minister and the premier.

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21 hours ago, Shahanga said:

Now Dan Jong Un wants to extend the state of emergency for another year. Fuck Me.

Mate, we are dealing with a world-wide pandemic here. It is highly unlikely that new cases in Victoria will be down to a manageable level by 13th September, and as I understand it, the State of Emergency needs to be extended for the various anti-virus measures to continue to be enforceable by law. If these restrictions do not continue we will see an unstoppable third wave here in Victoria, and continuing infections and many further residual health effects and deaths. Everything we have done to date will be worthless, and all the sacrifices made so far will have been wasted.

Unpalatable though it may be, the State of Emergency must be extended for us to have any chance against this virus. 

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Yeah the State of Emergency thing is largely a non-issue, every other state can keep them running indefinitely afaik and it's needed to enforce and enact most of the measures taken regarding COVID. I'm pretty sure without it even something as simple as instructing positive case people to isolate is unenforceable. Also it's only extending the time period it's allowed, it still has to be approved in increments as it has been this whole time, and 12 more months is probably conservatively how much longer we will be dealing with some level of COVID, so adding 3 months or whatever just means we come back for the same conversation over and over. 

If you disagree with how Andrews is/has handled this all that's cool but extending the State of Emergency is a separate issue. I mean whats the alternative, just go from full lockdown and rules to nothing come September 13th? 

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13 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

Mate, we are dealing with a world-wide pandemic here. It is highly unlikely that new cases in Victoria will be down to a manageable level by 13th September, and as I understand it, the State of Emergency needs to be extended for the various anti-virus measures to continue to be enforceable by law. If these restrictions do not continue we will see an unstoppable third wave here in Victoria, and continuing infections and many further residual health effects and deaths. Everything we have done to date will be worthless, and all the sacrifices made so far will have been wasted.

Unpalatable though it may be, the State of Emergency must be extended for us to have any chance against this virus. 

How about Sweden and Switzerland? They didn't lock down and their alleged death rate is quite low considering... 

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19 minutes ago, MHFC-FAN said:

How about Sweden and Switzerland? They didn't lock down and their alleged death rate is quite low considering... 

Sweden? Population c. 10 million and 6,000 deaths.

Switzerland? Population c. 8.6 million, 2000 deaths.

No thanks.

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1 hour ago, jw1739 said:

Sweden? Population c. 10 million and 6,000 deaths.

Switzerland? Population c. 8.6 million, 2000 deaths.

No thanks.

EgMMCp2UwAA6rPQ.thumb.jpeg.635c54a9e45cdc1c0d7b3fa6c58a0ee6.jpeg

It's an interesting viewpoint and obviously time will be the judge. Not necessarily endorsing it, but im not dismissing it either.

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You're off by a factor of 100, but it's a common mistake to make because 1% is already 1/100th.  

So the 'alleged' deaths from covid for Sweden is correctly stated as 0.06% of the population.

Or as 1 in 1,667. Calculated as 1 divided by 0.0006 (your figure).

 

I put 'alleged' in ' ' because i do agree that it's probably difficult to attribute death when there are multiple causes. For me a better indicator is excess deaths above averages. For what it's worth, the excess deaths in the US over the last 6 months are actually higher than the reported COVID figure. I find this interesting because there are many accusations there (as here) that people are being recorded of dying of COVID for a wide range of reasons. 

 

My take is that it takes a brave person/politician/authoritarian leader to choose a response that they know will cause a higher number of deaths. So it's unsurprising that most have chosen 'conservative' approaches where a large economic cost has been preferred to a human cost. However, if all we've done is delay the total number of deaths .....in other words, we all end up 'living with covid' because a vaccine doesn't arrive or doesn't work.....then i think Sweden's approach will be vindicated if it has caused a lower economic impact. 

 

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5 hours ago, jw1739 said:

Mate, we are dealing with a world-wide pandemic here. It is highly unlikely that new cases in Victoria will be down to a manageable level by 13th September, and as I understand it, the State of Emergency needs to be extended for the various anti-virus measures to continue to be enforceable by law. If these restrictions do not continue we will see an unstoppable third wave here in Victoria, and continuing infections and many further residual health effects and deaths. Everything we have done to date will be worthless, and all the sacrifices made so far will have been wasted.

Unpalatable though it may be, the State of Emergency must be extended for us to have any chance against this virus. 

Then get a month by month extension from Parliament. 
Don’t suspend democracy. 

Im not going to drink the authoritarian cool-aid.

AND
Everyone talks about Covid deaths, like we are immortal. What is the normal death rate? How many suicides is the perpetual lockdown causing? How many people will die because they didn’t get something “checked out” due to the lockdown.

There are other options besides perpetual lockdown. I thought the plan was to flatten the curve to buy time?

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6 hours ago, The Aardvark said:

Yeah the State of Emergency thing is largely a non-issue, every other state can keep them running indefinitely afaik and it's needed to enforce and enact most of the measures taken regarding COVID. I'm pretty sure without it even something as simple as instructing positive case people to isolate is unenforceable. Also it's only extending the time period it's allowed, it still has to be approved in increments as it has been this whole time, and 12 more months is probably conservatively how much longer we will be dealing with some level of COVID, so adding 3 months or whatever just means we come back for the same conversation over and over. 

If you disagree with how Andrews is/has handled this all that's cool but extending the State of Emergency is a separate issue. I mean whats the alternative, just go from full lockdown and rules to nothing come September 13th? 

I don’t mind some of the others arguing/disagreeing with me (that’s what this page is about) but I see you’ve said elsewhere you’re not even in Melbourne?

i don’t think you appreciate just how fucked life is here at present and the resultant and very real impact on mental health and a whole host of other nasty things like domestic violence and alcoholism etc etc. the treatment is far from pain free and with no end in sight it’s justifiable to question whether the treatment is worse than the disease 

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9 minutes ago, Shahanga said:

I don’t mind some of the others arguing/disagreeing with me (that’s what this page is about) but I see you’ve said elsewhere you’re not even in Melbourne?

i don’t think you appreciate just how fucked life is here at present and the resultant and very real impact on mental health and a whole host of other nasty things like domestic violence and alcoholism etc etc. the treatment is far from pain free and with no end in sight it’s justifiable to question whether the treatment is worse than the disease 

Yeah fair point and i thought that might come up. I don't disagree with anything you've said, and with basically everyone I know living in Melbourne and still in regular contact with me I feel I have a decent idea of what its like, while also acknowledging that yes I haven't had to do it myself and it is almost certainly much harder than I imagine. 

I just think on the whole the State of Emergency extension is not the issue. If you don't like the way the government has handled things that's fine (I'm not saying you specifically), and there is plenty to criticise whichever side of the fence you are sitting on. But my understanding is without the SoE then virtually all the measures taken are wiped and/or unenforceable, and it also really limits the governments ability to do anything quickly. For example the rest of Australia is also operating under SoE's (and theirs don't expire at all), so if people are advocating for Victoria to adopt their methods (or even Swedens for that matter) I believe it is not possible without the powers a SoE grants. 

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2 hours ago, Shahanga said:

Then get a month by month extension from Parliament. 
Don’t suspend democracy. 

Im not going to drink the authoritarian cool-aid.

AND
Everyone talks about Covid deaths, like we are immortal. What is the normal death rate? How many suicides is the perpetual lockdown causing? How many people will die because they didn’t get something “checked out” due to the lockdown.

There are other options besides perpetual lockdown. I thought the plan was to flatten the curve to buy time?

I feel like you have hit the nail on the head for the people that consider the alternative to the lockdowns. There seems to be increasing evidence that medication already available is having a positive effect on treating people with covid symptoms. But all the dictatorship and media will lead you to believe that the vaccine is "the only option" back to 'normal' life. 

There is no such thing as "covid normal" it's a bullshit slogan we are living in completely abnormal times. Don't believe otherwise!

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3 hours ago, Shahanga said:

I don’t mind some of the others arguing/disagreeing with me (that’s what this page is about) but I see you’ve said elsewhere you’re not even in Melbourne?

i don’t think you appreciate just how fucked life is here at present and the resultant and very real impact on mental health and a whole host of other nasty things like domestic violence and alcoholism etc etc. the treatment is far from pain free and with no end in sight it’s justifiable to question whether the treatment is worse than the disease 

However the road toll is down which means that people who survive car accidents won't have life handicaps, influenza (normal variety) is way down, hospitalisations due to not having contact with other people way down, and so on. So on the questions of swings and roundabouts we won't know till in about five years time. Which is why some statistics are comparing year on year deaths which BTW Sweden (and yes I do have cousins who live in Stockholm) is way higher than in previous years. And their economy has done worse than the other Scandinavian economies that went into lockdown.

To me on the question of state of emergency laws is why is Victoria the only state to have an expiration date and none of the other states do? Hell not even Bjelke-Petersen removed that from the law books (and I know that you are a fan). The second thing is what is it preventing me from doing? Since I know lots of people who are in the at risk  category (at my age that can't be helped) so whether the laws are there or not I would be doing pretty much what I am doing now. And if the state of emergency laws need to be repealed why aren't people arguing that the state of disaster be repealed as well? Why did Kennett remove one and not the other?

As far as accountability is concerned, the solution there is that Parliament should not be suspended under any circumstance. We have asked doctors, nurses, hospital staff to keep working in exposed environments, I don't see why politicians should stay at home. If they catch the virus, then it is no worse than if a nurse catches it. If they say that they are showing an example by not attending parliament, my response is that they are a pack of cowards and should stand down. I can compromise and they can change the laws/constitution and they can use a virtual parliament.

 

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As I understand it the present legislation limits a state of emergency for a continuous period of no more than six months, and that even within such a period the SoE has to be renewed on a monthly basis. AFAIK Andrews wants to remove the "six-months continuous" limitation, but does not wish to change anything else.

I take note of all the comments on the matter of lockdowns, and the alternatives, and the potential impacts of the various responses to the coronavirus pandemic. All of us have experienced the immediate impacts of the restrictions, but how many of us have had the virus ourselves or in our immediate family? Until last year death had always been an issue for someone else rather than me personally. My father died in a different country; my mother died in a different state - both many years ago now.  My wife died last year. It's not her death that I cannot handle, it's coming to terms with the fact that she will never come back. Fool that I am my heart still hopes the see her come through the garden gate again, but my head knows that she never will.

The numbers are not just numbers - they are people. Real people, just like us. For me it is not an option to "live with the virus." It's not acceptable to have 20 deaths per day. In no way am I a supporter of Premier Andrews, but IMO it is right and proper to give the government, and future governments of Victoria, the necessary legislative powers to to minimise the death and other health impacts of the current situation, and any other pandemic that may occur in the future.

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I agree @NewConvert in regards to suspending the parliament, that’s probably what riles me the most. We have a bizarre situation here where Parking Inspectors are considered essential, but Parliament is not.

If the Premier were to have to front up to parliament on a regular basis and explain himself, his actions and his plan and acknowledge the importance of that institution and our democracy id be a lot happier.

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46 minutes ago, Shahanga said:

I agree @NewConvert in regards to suspending the parliament, that’s probably what riles me the most. We have a bizarre situation here where Parking Inspectors are considered essential, but Parliament is not.

If the Premier were to have to front up to parliament on a regular basis and explain himself, his actions and his plan and acknowledge the importance of that institution and our democracy id be a lot happier.

One thing that COVID-19 has made me realise is that we no longer need parliamentary chambers. If I, like countless others, can work from home then I cannot see why MPs (state and federal) cannot do the same. Sure keep the chambers for the opening of parliament after an election result as a symbolic gesture but other than that they can all work remotely. This would be easier on those MPs that represent rural/regional constituencies as they would not be away from home as much. It would also reduce the family stress that they experience.

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Just now, NewConvert said:

One thing that COVID-19 has made me realise is that we no longer need parliamentary chambers. If I, like countless others, can work from home then I cannot see why MPs (state and federal) cannot do the same. Sure keep the chambers for the opening of parliament after an election result as a symbolic gesture but other than that they can all work remotely. This would be easier on those MPs that represent rural/regional constituencies as they would not be away from home as much. It would also reduce the family stress that they experience.

Completely agree with you.

Big financial savings too?

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