Domestic Politics

[Deeming]

That'll do it.
If the party knew about this it was stupid to preselect him

[Tesla]

18 hours ago, thisphantomfortress said:

Did Tony Bourke imply the AFP were acting as the liberals gestapo?

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-05-19/afp-raids-labor-party-offices-in-melbourne/7430346

edit- holy shit lefties on the Internet are actually claiming that the liberals ordered this, how fucking delusional are these morons? 

R. Di Natale - officially the luckiest man in Aus right now, go buy a lotto ticket Ritchie 

I find it hard to believe the Liberal party was behind this (unless someone really didn't think this through) because the last thing the Liberal Party and especially Turnbull would want is a large amount of mainstream media attention to the huge failure that is the Coalition's NBN.

I don't think I've seen this much attention brought to the failures of the NBN before. It's a spectacular backfire if the Liberal party did have something to do with it.

I'm surprised they didn't just privatise it after the last election, that would have been my preference anyway. But even building Labor's NBN would have been better than this shit that isn't much cheaper while being significantly inferior and facing just as many cost and time blowouts.

[thisphantomfortress]

14 minutes ago, Tesla said:

I'm surprised they didn't just privatise it after the last election, that would have been my preference anyway. But even building Labor's NBN would have been better than this shit that isn't much cheaper while being significantly inferior and facing just as many cost and time blowouts.

Unfortunately we can't say the Labor NBN wouldn't have the same issues. I'd rather it was privatised too tbh, but I have it so I just care about costs incurred with it now due to inefficient use of public funds

[NewConvert]

2 hours ago, Tesla said:

I find it hard to believe the Liberal party was behind this (unless someone really didn't think this through) because the last thing the Liberal Party and especially Turnbull would want is a large amount of mainstream media attention to the huge failure that is the Coalition's NBN.

I don't think I've seen this much attention brought to the failures of the NBN before. It's a spectacular backfire if the Liberal party did have something to do with it.

I'm surprised they didn't just privatise it after the last election, that would have been my preference anyway. But even building Labor's NBN would have been better than this shit that isn't much cheaper while being significantly inferior and facing just as many cost and time blowouts.

Laurie Oakes was claiming that the AFP had confirmed that the NBN seconded person photographed the sealed documents and distributed the photos to unknown persons. My take on this is that it was a stuff up probably pushed by some overzealous dick and has now become a major issue for the government and the AFP. Was it someone in the Liberal party? I would hope not but political parties attract all sorts.

[Shahanga]

5 hours ago, hedaik said:

As I said earlier the guys held a dodgy reputation through two cricket clubs and a workplace over a 10 year period, his peers in the party would know a lot more about him than what has come to the surface via the media. His only mate at Mt Lawley cricket club was a redhead we called rednut, and everybody used to just bowl non stop bouncers to him in the nets. 

Yeah he doesn't sound great but that's based on what you've told us about him as a person. The media and public wouldn't know any of that stuff.

edit: now seen the WA newspaper article.

Edited May 20, 2016 by Shahanga

[Shahanga]

5 hours ago, Deeming said:

Not this time, just gave birth a month ago

Congratulations 

[cadete]

On 5/20/2016 at 3:49 PM, Deeming said:

That'll do it.
If the party knew about this it was stupid to preselect him

No offence, but some of these safe seats see anyone from the opposing party being preselected...

Of course there would be some good candidates as well but sometimes its the same Twitter Addicted Loser literally every second election who is just a loudmouth who has an over inflated opinion of himself.

[thisphantomfortress]

21 minutes ago, cadete said:

No offence, but some of these safe seats see anyone from the opposing party being preselected...

Of course there would be some good candidates as well but sometimes its the same Twitter Addicted Loser literally every second election who is just a loudmouth who has an over inflated opinion of himself.

Maybe politics is my calling 

[GreenSeater]

@Tesla or anyone else who knows stuff about economics. My political opinions are based on social issues rather than the economy as I know stuff all about it. Do you know of any resources I could use to learn just a basic amount on economics. Just enough to understand the election a bit better? Preferably neither left or right biased if possible.

[thisphantomfortress]

14 minutes ago, GreenSeater said:

@Tesla or anyone else who knows stuff about economics. My political opinions are based on social issues rather than the economy as I know stuff all about it. Do you know of any resources I could use to learn just a basic amount on economics. Just enough to understand the election a bit better? Preferably neither left or right biased if possible.

Read some Friedman, then read 40 years of everyone from both side attacking him 

[NewConvert]

8 hours ago, thisphantomfortress said:

Read some Friedman, then read 40 years of everyone from both side attacking him 

Including himself in the Financial Times in an interview on June 7, 2003 (paywalled). And don't talk to Chileans of any political stripe about Friedman's monetarist policies after they caused an official unemployment rate of 27% in 1982 and the greatest amounts of bankruptcies in the nation's history.

[Tesla]

http://www.theage.com.au/comment/easy-for-the-greens-to-promise-compassion-20160521-gp0hj6.html

10/10.

Edited May 23, 2016 by Tesla

[thisphantomfortress]

Yea @Tesla read it yesterday, thought the author was a bit too partisan to post on here. It's basically what inspired my post on the TTIM thread 

[Tesla]

9 hours ago, GreenSeater said:

@Tesla or anyone else who knows stuff about economics. My political opinions are based on social issues rather than the economy as I know stuff all about it. Do you know of any resources I could use to learn just a basic amount on economics. Just enough to understand the election a bit better? Preferably neither left or right biased if possible.

Honestly as a lefty your best start is here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarcity

Okay I put that link as a bit of a dig/joke, but reading that it's actually the best use of 30 seconds if you don't know much/anything about economics.

As for a book, let me think and get back to you.

 

9 hours ago, thisphantomfortress said:

Read some Friedman, then read 40 years of everyone from both side attacking him 

This really does not seem like an efficient method, Friedman would not recommend it (well, I'm sure he'd recommend the 'read some Friedman' part, but the rest I dunno).

 

1 hour ago, NewConvert said:

Including himself in the Financial Times in an interview on June 7, 2003 (paywalled). And don't talk to Chileans of any political stripe about Friedman's monetarist policies after they caused an official unemployment rate of 27% in 1982 and the greatest amounts of bankruptcies in the nation's history.

The long run affect of Friedman influence in Chile was the removal of a dictator and the development of one of the strongest economies in it's region  

[NewConvert]

42 minutes ago, Tesla said:

Honestly as a lefty your best start is here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarcity

Okay I put that link as a bit of a dig/joke, but reading that it's actually the best use of 30 seconds if you don't know much/anything about economics.

As for a book, let me think and get back to you.

 

This really does not seem like an efficient method, Friedman would not recommend it (well, I'm sure he'd recommend the 'read some Friedman' part, but the rest I dunno).

 

The long run affect of Friedman influence in Chile was the removal of a dictator and the development of one of the strongest economies in it's region  

Where did you get that from?

[HeartFc]

4 hours ago, NewConvert said:

Where did you get that from?

Haven't read too much about Freidmen and the Chicago boys but my understand was that GDP, and wages increased as a result of the free market influence. What am I missing?

[HeartFc]

14 hours ago, thisphantomfortress said:

Read some Friedman, then read 40 years of everyone from both side attacking him 

Id add Thomas Sowell to that. I like the fact he was a marxist first then learnt in plain terms why it made no sense. I found Sowell's writing style and outlook is clear and easy to understand, even for a retard like me. 

[NewConvert]

1 hour ago, HeartFc said:

Haven't read too much about Freidmen and the Chicago boys but my understand was that GDP, and wages increased as a result of the free market influence. What am I missing?

You are missing lots. The Chicago Boys were sacked during the economic crisis of 1982 after 5 years of implementing the Hayek policies which resulted in one million economic migrants, 27% unemployment and the widespread bankruptcies and a shrinking GDP. A new minister of finance was brought in who changed economic tack that stabilised the economy and an increasing GDP.

Were these policies responsible for renewed growth in Chile? There is a lot of debate about it but Thatcher was sceptical once claiming the only way for those policies to be implemented had to be under the barrel of the gun; we now know from official US documents that Chile was being sabotaged by the USA (thank you Bill Clinton) to create the conditions for the coup; the OPEC oil embargo eased and the growth attributed is not as large claimed. Finally in 2005 Milton Friedman conceded in a speech that the policies that he had advised Pinochet on did not work as he had expected them to do so. I personally think that the debate is generated by those who supported the coup because otherwise every one of the justifications for it has been proven to be false.

There is a misconception that Latin American economies were/are heavily statist but I find them to be more feudal than anything else. And I can tell you that it is quite uncomforting when you are having dinner with people and they casually dismiss the killing of people as if they were insects. 

[HeartFc]

Ok so its a little more complicated then I first thought but then again that's economics in a nutshell. 

Its certainly a touchy topic, I know of that personally because my mrs is of Chilean background. Its seems a lot a of Chileans embraced socialism a lot more and especially spoke of Allende as good leader. That was always confusing to me growing up knowing my parents left soviet rule under no illusion of the negative overall impact it had on the region.  I once mentioned Allende he was a freemason (and that I disliked them) and was confronted angrily like I was taking about their mother. 

Touchy topic indeed. 

[thisphantomfortress]

1 hour ago, HeartFc said:

Ok so its a little more complicated then I first thought but then again that's economics in a nutshell. 

Its certainly a touchy topic, I know of that personally because my mrs is of Chilean background. Its seems a lot a of Chileans embraced socialism a lot more and especially spoke of Allende as good leader. That was always confusing to me growing up knowing my parents left soviet rule under no illusion of the negative overall impact it had on the region.  I once mentioned Allende he was a freemason (and that I disliked them) and was confronted angrily like I was taking about their mother. 

Touchy topic indeed. 

I definitely feel there is a direct correlation between political ideology and ancestry; particularly those who's family lived through a soviet government 

[Jimmy]

On 23/05/2016 at 9:57 PM, GreenSeater said:

@Tesla or anyone else who knows stuff about economics. My political opinions are based on social issues rather than the economy as I know stuff all about it. Do you know of any resources I could use to learn just a basic amount on economics. Just enough to understand the election a bit better? Preferably neither left or right biased if possible.

Honestly the best thing I think you can do is just buy a first year uni economics textbook that isn't too long and just read the introduction and early chapters to get an understanding of the key concepts like scarcity, opportunity cost, efficiency, productivity, inflation etc. Then if you want you could read about the slightly more complicated shit that'd likely be in the same book (elasticity, unemployment, monopolies, government intervention, price floors and ceilings). Then you can go read summaries of the ideas of people like John Stuart Mill, Marx, Smith, Keynes etc. By then you'll have an idea of what interests you anyway so you'll be able to find things on your own.

But fair warning, learning about economics will almost definitely steer you away from the left.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Jimmy

[NewConvert]

17 hours ago, HeartFc said:

Ok so its a little more complicated then I first thought but then again that's economics in a nutshell. 

Its certainly a touchy topic, I know of that personally because my mrs is of Chilean background. Its seems a lot a of Chileans embraced socialism a lot more and especially spoke of Allende as good leader. That was always confusing to me growing up knowing my parents left soviet rule under no illusion of the negative overall impact it had on the region.  I once mentioned Allende he was a freemason (and that I disliked them) and was confronted angrily like I was taking about their mother. 

Touchy topic indeed. 

Having arrived in Australia I also learnt that left/right can mean different things in different places. Bizarrely enough Howard would have been a centre left politician back in 1970. The drivers for political decisions are quite local. The country still remains one where its not what you know but who you know.

10 hours ago, Jimmy said:

Honestly the best thing I think you can do is just buy a first year uni economics textbook that isn't too long and just read the introduction and early chapters to get an understanding of the key concepts like scarcity, opportunity cost, efficiency, productivity, inflation etc. Then if you want you could read about the slightly more complicated shit that'd likely be in the same book (elasticity, unemployment, monopolies, government intervention, price floors and ceilings). Then you can go read summaries of the ideas of people like John Stuart Mill, Marx, Smith, Keynes etc. By then you'll have an idea of what interests you anyway so you'll be able to find things on your own.

But fair warning, learning about economics will almost definitely steer you away from the left.

Not always...

[cadete]

5 minutes ago, NewConvert said:

Having arrived in Australia I also learnt that left/right can mean different things in different places. Bizarrely enough Howard would have been a centre left politician back in 1970. The drivers for political decisions are quite local. The country still remains one where its not what you know but who you know.

Not always...

So true...It's amazing how certain PPL can adjust their morality when discussing Politics outside of Australia when compared to discussing Australian Politics.

You have the same group of PPL protest at the offices of MP's who are against Same Sex Marriages one day then the next protesting against Western Nations interfering with Countries that have Military Regimes with no Rule of Law who sanction death for PPL who live LGBT lifestyles.

The best example is the whole Bernie Sanders thing and the "Feel The Burn" posts on Facebook, dont get me wrong I also think the US needs someone as progressive as Sanders. However some PPL (I stress some - others obv are educated on US Politics) who are getting on this bandwagon and post this shit need to realise that the bloke is still probably to the right of their Hitler himself... AKA Tony Abbott.

 

[NewConvert]

2 hours ago, cadete said:

So true...It's amazing how certain PPL can adjust their morality when discussing Politics outside of Australia when compared to discussing Australian Politics.

You have the same group of PPL protest at the offices of MP's who are against Same Sex Marriages one day then the next protesting against Western Nations interfering with Countries that have Military Regimes with no Rule of Law who sanction death for PPL who live LGBT lifestyles.

The best example is the whole Bernie Sanders thing and the "Feel The Burn" posts on Facebook, dont get me wrong I also think the US needs someone as progressive as Sanders. However some PPL (I stress some - others obv are educated on US Politics) who are getting on this bandwagon and post this shit need to realise that the bloke is still probably to the right of their Hitler himself... AKA Tony Abbott.

 

Don't follow this. So you are saying that Western nations should interfere in countries that have no rule of law or those countries that have the death penalty for LGBTI people. And I presume that interference means military intervention?

[cadete]

23 minutes ago, NewConvert said:

Don't follow this. So you are saying that Western nations should interfere in countries that have no rule of law or those countries that have the death penalty for LGBTI people. And I presume that interference means military intervention?

No, I am not saying anything of the sort... 

I am talking about when Leftists make claims of mass injustice when they think that the the US and other Western Nations are interfering with the sovereignty of these nations by non military means by do, this, that and the other thing.

These are very same PPL who are fine labelling our current government Fascists, but then on the other hand defending these Governments that clearly are far more extreme on Social Issues and Honosexuality is easily the best example to illustrate such a point.

Edited May 25, 2016 by cadete

[NewConvert]

1 hour ago, cadete said:

No, I am not saying anything of the sort... 

I am talking about when Leftists make claims of mass injustice when they think that the the US and other Western Nations are interfering with the sovereignty of these nations by non military means by do, this, that and the other thing.

These are very same PPL who are fine labelling our current government Fascists, but then on the other hand defending these Governments that clearly are far more extreme on Social Issues and Honosexuality is easily the best example to illustrate such a point.

Got it.

[Tesla]

8 hours ago, cadete said:

The best example is the whole Bernie Sanders thing and the "Feel The Burn" posts on Facebook, dont get me wrong I also think the US needs someone as progressive as Sanders. However some PPL (I stress some - others obv are educated on US Politics) who are getting on this bandwagon and post this shit need to realise that the bloke is still probably to the right of their Hitler himself... AKA Tony Abbott.

The strangest thing about the support of Bernie Sanders is I've seen a lot of US people support him that in previous elections supported Ron Paul. Now obviously these two are completely opposite ends of the spectrum, at least on economic issues, I really struggle to understand how you can go from one to the other. Just highlights how many people there are that will support any new political trend that's outside of mainstream politics.

And we've obviously seen plenty of examples of that in Australia as well in recent times.

Edited May 25, 2016 by Tesla

[GreenSeater]

1 hour ago, Tesla said:

The strangest thing about the support of Bernie Sanders is I've seen a lot of US people support him that in previous elections supported Ron Paul. Now obviously these two are completely opposite ends of the spectrum, at least on economic issues, I really struggle to understand how you can go from one to the other. Just highlights how many people there are that will support any new political trend that's outside of mainstream politics.

And we've obviously seen plenty of examples of that in Australia as well in recent times.

Well they're doing it again now that it looks like Sanders will lose the nomination. Most of his supporters look like they'll support Trump over Clinton. Obviously people are just sick of the mainstream political establishment and want something different. 

[thisphantomfortress]

1 hour ago, GreenSeater said:

Well they're doing it again now that it looks like Sanders will lose the nomination. Most of his supporters look like they'll support Trump over Clinton. Obviously people are just sick of the mainstream political establishment and want something different. 

People shouldn't be driven by being anti-establishment they should be driven by policy. Sanders and Trump are worlds apart in policy. TBH my ideal political system would be an autocracy lead by me.

[HeartFc]

I think of Hans Moleman when I look at Bernie Sanders.

[thisphantomfortress]

Let's talk UPF, RA(who seem to have died off), TBC and Antifa. Is it just me or have these fringe groups on both sides been getting worse recently? I'm not old enough to really remember any othe groups like this. Is this a new thing or just new names for the same packs of morons?

[NewConvert]

34 minutes ago, thisphantomfortress said:

Let's talk UPF, RA(who seem to have died off), TBC and Antifa. Is it just me or have these fringe groups on both sides been getting worse recently? I'm not old enough to really remember any othe groups like this. Is this a new thing or just new names for the same packs of morons?

You are not old enough. Back in the 70s there were some real dicks. Also a new generation of dickheads.

[Shahanga]

3 hours ago, thisphantomfortress said:

Let's talk UPF, RA(who seem to have died off), TBC and Antifa. Is it just me or have these fringe groups on both sides been getting worse recently? I'm not old enough to really remember any othe groups like this. Is this a new thing or just new names for the same packs of morons?

And I'm too old to even know what all these initialings actually stand for. 

Speaking of long standing morons are the Socialist Workers Party still around? 

[NewConvert]

1 hour ago, Shahanga said:

And I'm too old to even know what all these initialings actually stand for. 

Speaking of long standing morons are the Socialist Workers Party still around? 

yes. They pop now and then at election time. Nothing like in the old days - they all got old now and few new members I believe.

[cadete]

17 hours ago, thisphantomfortress said:

Let's talk UPF, RA(who seem to have died off), TBC and Antifa. Is it just me or have these fringe groups on both sides been getting worse recently? I'm not old enough to really remember any othe groups like this. Is this a new thing or just new names for the same packs of morons?

14 hours ago, Shahanga said:

And I'm too old to even know what all these initialings actually stand for. 

Speaking of long standing morons are the Socialist Workers Party still around? 

These idiots learnt they nobody likes the world Socialism... probably because it makes them think of Dictator X, Y and Z.

Therefore they have decided to rename themselves: Antifa... and they just now label anybody to the right of them as a Fascist that they should stand against.

 

[jw1739]

15 hours ago, Shahanga said:

And I'm too old to even know what all these initialings actually stand for. 

Speaking of long standing morons are the Socialist Workers Party still around? 

UPF - United Patriots Front, RA - Reclaim Australia, TBC - True Blue Crew, Antifa - Antifascist something-or-other. The list goes on.

[bt50]

Doesnt matter what side of the fence they sit on. All morons, all deserve a good kick in the teeth.
Anyone that wears a balaclava to a protest is only there to cause trouble and deserves the full force of the law.

[Shahanga]

1 minute ago, bt50 said:

Doesnt matter what side of the fence they sit on. All morons, all deserve a good kick in the teeth.
Anyone that wears a balaclava to a protest is only there to cause trouble and deserves the full force of the law.

Who goes to "a counter demonstration" anyway? If they think the demo is a load of horse shit,  then don't go.

It has to be just people who want to start trouble.

[bt50]

1 hour ago, Shahanga said:

Who goes to "a counter demonstration" anyway? If they think the demo is a load of horse shit,  then don't go.

It has to be just people who want to start trouble.

Absolutely. 
I've got no time for RA or Antifa either way, but if one turns up to the others rally, they should be prosecuted for inciting a riot imo.
At the end of the day its free speech and one can say whatever they want. Condemning them should be done in ways that dont include a bit of biffo.

Although in saying that, probably the best editions of 7News occur when you get to see these fuckheads beating the crap out of each other. oh the lels

Edited May 30, 2016 by bt50

[cadete]

16 minutes ago, Shahanga said:

Who goes to "a counter demonstration" anyway? If they think the demo is a load of horse shit,  then don't go.

It has to be just people who want to start trouble.

The answer in many cases is actually the same people who have been discussed on the forum at length before... except they are discussed in the context of pursuing trouble at Soccer Matches and not as those wishing to do so at Counter Demonstrators. 

Edited May 30, 2016 by cadete