Matchday 11: v Victory - Saturday 21st December 5 pm at AAMI Park

[Hanz]

17 minutes ago, Torn Asunder said:

We just need a genuine quality no 10 ... Then we'd be in for the title

100%

[jw1739]

12 hours ago, kingofhearts said:

Also, if I see one more alternative dead ball play from a dangerous position that ends up with us kicking the ball all the way back to the fucking goal keeper i'm going to scream.

I am sure that this has pissed off so many supporters already.

It drives me batty too. Just gives the opposition time and space to regroup and re-energise. We must be by far and away the most ineffective users of the ball in the League. Much of the collective energy of the players is wasted.

[Mr MO]

28 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

I am sure that this has pissed off so many supporters already.

It drives me batty too. Just gives the opposition time and space to regroup and re-energise. We must be by far and away the most ineffective users of the ball in the League. Much of the collective energy of the players is wasted.

But they will say....look it worked as Delbridge scored a 2 piece corner.

[Harrison]

26 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

I am sure that this has pissed off so many supporters already.

It drives me batty too. Just gives the opposition time and space to regroup and re-energise. We must be by far and away the most ineffective users of the ball in the League. Much of the collective energy of the players is wasted.

What’s strange is we scored from the short corner, then two minutes later we had another from the same spot. Instead of doing the same thing that worked, we tried something different and I don’t even think we registered a shot or chance.

[Nate]

fortunately just about every other result this round was in our favour so we're still in a good position.

seize a win against Sydney and we're right back in title contention and then we play Geelong United at home who are 3rd so it's not all doom and gloom just yet.

[fensaddler]

24 minutes ago, Nate said:

fortunately just about every other result this round was in our favour so we're still in a good position.

seize a win against Sydney and we're right back in title contention and then we play Geelong United at home who are 3rd so it's not all doom and gloom just yet.

We'll not get a sniff against Sydney I'm afraid. Three or four goal spanking incoming. 

[rass]

On 22/12/2019 at 9:42 AM, Jovan said:

...

I'm worried Warmfarts is one dimensional and unwilling to change things, I was glad he changed the keepers which shows maybe he is open to change, but so far in these three bad losses he hasn't reacted and basically continued with a strategy that to me looked destined to fail. Okay I can accept we go down with a late change in momentum and cop a few goals, but all 3 games we didnt look remotely like winning and the coach and especially the players dont look capable of finding solutions. ...

I don't think he is unwilling to change things as such, i am more concerned that he doesn't seem to have the ability at the moment to change on the fly, i.e. when things are going to shit during a game. He's shown that he can change a squad - look at the Newcastle game, where his changes instantly produced a more attacking and attractive game (yeah I know, newy are horseshit at the moment). ... but when a game isn't going to plan, I am not sure if he can adapt - whether it be formation, personnel or even a half time speech that can instantly bring change.

[Mr MO]

3 minutes ago, rass said:

I don't think he is unwilling to change things as such, i am more concerned that he doesn't seem to have the ability at the moment to change on the fly, i.e. when things are going to shit during a game. He's shown that he can change a squad - look at the Newcastle game, where his changes instantly produced a more attacking and attractive game (yeah I know, newy are horseshit at the moment). ... but when a game isn't going to plan, I am not sure if he can adapt - whether it be formation, personnel or even a half time speech that can instantly bring change.

True, I also think most of our players aren’t capable of changing unfortunately and the coach knows this.

Judging by post matches comments “we need to execute better etc...” it tells me we aren’t going to change anytime soon.

I hate to say it but can you imagine the confusion with players like Jamieson to tactical changes - we already struggle to execute one strategy and one formation. I don’t think we’ve trained on alternatives either.

Other important thing we don’t have the squad and or bench for it - we don’t have a second proper striker to throw in the mix.

[haz]

1 hour ago, fensaddler said:

We'll not get a sniff against Sydney I'm afraid. Three or four goal spanking incoming. 

Nah Sydney aren't at the bottom so we'll win comfortably.

[Embee]

1 hour ago, Nate said:

fortunately just about every other result this round was in our favour so we're still in a good position.

seize a win against Sydney and we're right back in title contention and then we play Geelong United at home who are 3rd so it's not all doom and gloom just yet.

If I'm going to go glass half full; after the horror show that was the Joyce reign, the season so far is a pretty substantial improvement.

It's obviously frustrating to see our inability to capitalize on opportunities or perform on big stages, but it's probably worth noting that there's still some residual damage from the last 2 years, and that the improvement we have seen after only one pre-season is actually quite a positive result. The team is sitting in a decent position despite a squad which, if we're being honest, still has a couple of sizable holes and under-performing VISAs. If we manage to get Asian Football out of this season, surely that's an acceptable result given how bad things got last year.

Then if we pivot back to glass half empty: It feels like we're straight back into the "attacking football combined with a soft mentality" situation we had under JVS for all those years. And we're still failing every time we have an opportunity to display we're the real deal.

I think the last 2 years have severely depleted the patience which existed within the fanbase, and fairly so tbh.

 

Edited December 23, 2019 by Embee

[belaguttman]

I don't think that our derby performance was a tactical or team selection issue, it was a mentality issue

[rass]

6 minutes ago, belaguttman said:

I don't think that our derby performance was a tactical or team selection issue, it was a mentality issue

I agree. Victory were there for the taking. We had to come out on the front foot and hit them hard and score early - i have no doubt they would have capitulated then.

But instead, the total opposite happened and we let them take control early and their confidence grew. 

[Shahanga]

4 hours ago, Torn Asunder said:

We just need a genuine quality no 10 ... Then we'd be in for the title

We have one. He has an injured shoulder unfortunately 

[rass]

2 minutes ago, Shahanga said:

We have one. He has an injured shoulder unfortunately 

It says something doesn't it - that this kid has become the barometer of our team.

[jw1739]

15 minutes ago, rass said:

It says something doesn't it - that this kid has become the barometer of our team.

I think that's the trouble. We've got so used to underperformance that we continually look for that one magic bullet that will miraculously change everything.

Parachuting in Denis Genreau won't change the whole team. No one player can. It's a team game and it's the team that has to lift as a whole.

[MHFC-FAN]

5 hours ago, Torn Asunder said:

We just need a genuine quality no 10 ... Then we'd be in for the title

A CAM won't stop us conceding goals... 

[HEARTinator]

As lacking effectiveness as we did, I thought the second goal could have/should have been called off side. Nabbout's pass is clearly looking for Toivonen who looks just ahead of the ball. Maybe a 50/50 call but often these kind of calls go against the attacking side. Not so this time it seems. Anyway, Curtis Good who was just trying to have a shit day contributes massively to the goal. His second half was just as poor.

 

[belaguttman]

1 hour ago, rass said:

It says something doesn't it - that this kid has become the barometer of our team.

It says a lot that Wazza didn't want him and loaned him out. Good thing though, as Wazza would have destroyed him as a player

2 minutes ago, MHFC-FAN said:

A CAM won't stop us conceding goals... 

Its a weakest link game, when we fix CAM, the next weakest link becomes the problem position

[rass]

9 minutes ago, MHFC-FAN said:

A CAM won't stop us conceding goals... 

I don't think that's totally true. A good CAM makes the other team more accountable. 

12 minutes ago, HEARTinator said:

As lacking effectiveness as we did, I thought the second goal could have/should have been called off side. Nabbout's pass is clearly looking for Toivonen who looks just ahead of the ball. Maybe a 50/50 call but often these kind of calls go against the attacking side. Not so this time it seems. Anyway, Curtis Good who was just trying to have a shit day contributes massively to the goal. His second half was just as poor.

 

i think it's a moot point mate - it's come off Good so no off-side.

[Embee]

21 minutes ago, rass said:

I don't think that's totally true. A good CAM makes the other team more accountable. 

i think it's a moot point mate - it's come off Good so no off-side.

Nope, Good only plays at the ball because Ola (who is offside) is behind him.

It's exactly the same as the Manny own goal a few years back when Berisha was offside behind him when the ball was played. Again, the VAR making an absolute cock-up of a pretty straight forward decision.

[playmaker]

IMO the reason we play the way we do is because we have no CM.

We have no CM that can take on opposition, control the ball and open up play.

Hence, we have no attacking momentum developing from a neutral possession in the middle of the park, therefore forwards can't receive the ball at their feet.

Metcalfe is not a midfielder, he doesn't play like one and doesn't think like one. To me he is an wide overlapping type player.

So to try and compensate for this team deficiency they have Jamo making up central number which just doesn't work as he is not a midfielder is poor in all the attributes a CM should have, and it leaves a major weakness on the left side that continually gets exploited and is how we have lost games.

This needs to be fixed asap.

Tbh I would play Metcalfe as a wide FB and get rid of Jamo as he has been extremely poor in most facets of his game and Metcalfe just doesn't belong central.

[Mr MO]

4 minutes ago, Embee said:

Nope, Good only plays at the ball because Ola (who is offside) is behind him.

It's exactly the same as the Manny own goal a few years back when Berisha was offside behind him when the ball was played. Again, the VAR making an absolute cock-up of a pretty straight forward decision.

Isn’t Jamieson sticking his leg out? Puts Ola on side.

[playmaker]

38 minutes ago, HEARTinator said:

As lacking effectiveness as we did, I thought the second goal could have/should have been called off side. Nabbout's pass is clearly looking for Toivonen who looks just ahead of the ball. Maybe a 50/50 call but often these kind of calls go against the attacking side. Not so this time it seems. Anyway, Curtis Good who was just trying to have a shit day contributes massively to the goal. His second half was just as poor.

 

And Jamo looking in the opposite direction as the ball gets released. Hopeless.

[Harrison]

1 minute ago, Mr MO said:

Isn’t Jamieson sticking his leg out? Puts Ola on side.

From the photo above it still looks like Ola is offside. Go by the cut lines in the grass. The angle is deceiving but it still looks like Ola is offside. He’s interfering with play.

[rass]

11 minutes ago, Embee said:

Nope, Good only plays at the ball because Ola (who is offside) is behind him.

It's exactly the same as the Manny own goal a few years back when Berisha was offside behind him when the ball was played. Again, the VAR making an absolute cock-up of a pretty straight forward decision.

Hmm cheers - yeah i remember that. I think it's pretty grey though..

In the end, it was just a fuk up all round. I thought it  was easier for Good to have just played that out - no idea how he managed to turn that back towards goal.

[HughJass]

40 minutes ago, playmaker said:

And Jamo looking in the opposite direction as the ball gets released. Hopeless.

He was so casual defending that, staying off nabbout can see how much space he left him

[Embee]

55 minutes ago, Mr MO said:

Isn’t Jamieson sticking his leg out? Puts Ola on side.

tbf that screenshot looks like its slightly after Nabbout's played the ball, on the TV stills he looked clearly offside to me

[malloy]

2 hours ago, HughJass said:

He was so casual defending that, staying off nabbout can see how much space he left him

I think I jinxed us with this goal, I was bemoaning how much space Jamo was giving Nabbout.

Jamo always gives his man way too much space, needs to be dropped asap. Should never have been our captain..

[HEARTinator]

13 hours ago, malloy said:

I think I jinxed us with this goal, I was bemoaning how much space Jamo was giving Nabbout.

Jamo always gives his man way too much space, needs to be dropped asap. Should never have been our captain..

Jamo wasn't the only culprit but the two MV goals came down his side in the first half. For the first goal, we had 7 defenders surrounding 4 attackers with Nabbout finding plenty of space and with no one marking him he had time to whip it in and find Ola ghosting in behind Galloway to head in. Training ground goal and our players momentarily looking like cones. Nabbout was given way tooooo much space on the night. He Jamo's man to mark, that's what a left sided defender is meant to do.

The second goal resulted from a shank clearance that on most occasions would have been dealt with easily.

Mombearts made substitutions in the 69th and 82nd minutes but it was pretty clear even in the first half that we were struggling to contain the fast forward runs of MV and our in ability to find JMac compounded our problems. He was well held and we didn't have an answer. Poor game from the gaffer and MV well structured.

Edited December 23, 2019 by HEARTinator

[Harrison]

3 hours ago, HEARTinator said:

Jamo wasn't the only culprit but the two MV goals came down his side in the first half. For the first goal, we had 7 defenders surrounding 4 attackers with Nabbout finding plenty of space and with no one marking him he had time to whip it in and find Ola ghosting in behind Galloway to head in. Training ground goal and our players momentarily looking like cones. Nabbout was given way tooooo much space on the night. He Jamo's man to mark, that's what a left sided defender is meant to do.

The second goal resulted from a shank clearance that on most occasions would have been dealt with easily.

Mombearts made substitutions in the 69th and 82nd minutes but it was pretty clear even in the first half that we were struggling to contain the fast forward runs of MV and our in ability to find JMac compounded our problems. He was well held and we didn't have an answer. Poor game from the gaffer and MV well structured.

It’s been a problem all season. Too many get attracted to the ball and our shape is weakened. Just before Nabbout got the ball, Jamieson tucked in instead of cutting off the pass and Metcalfe sat off. It was poor positioning. Many times it’s easier to stop a cross than deal with it in the box. Even with Delbridge, we struggle to deal with crosses effectively, so the better solution is to stop the supply. 

[Mr MO]

1 hour ago, Harrison said:

It’s been a problem all season. Too many get attracted to the ball and our shape is weakened. Just before Nabbout got the ball, Jamieson tucked in instead of cutting off the pass and Metcalfe sat off. It was poor positioning. Many times it’s easier to stop a cross than deal with it in the box. Even with Delbridge, we struggle to deal with crosses effectively, so the better solution is to stop the supply. 

I think what a lot of people are pointing out is that - on several occasions it’s actually Jamieson who turns the ball over himself in the first place whilst being in this tucked in midfielder role, this by a poor touch or pass. This inverted left role requires a better footballer.

[jw1739]

But it's the gaffer's job to get the best out of the cattle he's got under contract, whether he signed them or not.

If our captain is not up to it, then the gaffer has to either find someone who can play the desired role, or change the system used by the team.

Successful sides play to their strengths. What we seem to be doing is trying to fit square pegs into round holes.

I'm a bit tired of all the blame on individual players TBH.

We've seen the style played by the more successful A-League sides, and the type of players that they sign. If we persist in doing something different we've only got ourselves to blame. We only have to look at the trophy cabinet and the empty seats in the stands to see that we haven't got it right.

[Harrison]

11 minutes ago, Mr MO said:

I think what a lot of people are pointing out is that - on several occasions it’s actually Jamieson who turns the ball over himself in the first place whilst being in this tucked in midfielder role, this by a poor touch or pass. This inverted left role requires a better footballer.

I know. As I’ve said before, it’s a risk v reward thing. We get extra midfield control when we build up but obviously are more vulnerable if we lose possession there. I agree that Jamieson isn’t very good at it because he’s never been a midfielder but it’s his positioning in certain defensive situations that’s baffling. 

1 minute ago, jw1739 said:

But it's the gaffer's job to get the best out of the cattle he's got under contract, whether he signed them or not.

If our captain is not up to it, then the gaffer has to either find someone who can play the desired role, or change the system used by the team.

Successful sides play to their strengths. What we seem to be doing is trying to fit square pegs into round holes.

I'm a bit tired of all the blame on individual players TBH.

We've seen the style played by the more successful A-League sides, and the type of players that they sign. If we persist in doing something different we've only got ourselves to blame. We only have to look at the trophy cabinet and the empty seats in the stands to see that we haven't got it right.

I come back to Petrillo and the other squad decision makers. Mombaerts apparently made a few signings but is Petrillo the best person for a role as important as head of football or whatever it’s called? I’m yet to be impressed. I’d love to know who was behind Fornaroli and Bart and who was behind the failed foreign players. Is the scouting network being used?

[jw1739]

4 minutes ago, Harrison said:

I come back to Petrillo and the other squad decision makers. Mombaerts apparently made a few signings but is Petrillo the best person for a role as important as head of football or whatever it’s called? I’m yet to be impressed. I’d love to know who was behind Fornaroli and Bart and who was behind the failed foreign players. Is the scouting network being used?

If you read James Poole's bio he says he is in charge of the recruiting for Melbourne City, so presumably, yes, we are using the scouting network. Again you come back to the system we use with the players we've got. We obviously recruited Luna and Cabrera, and there's no point in playing a guy like Luna up front alongside Maclaren and then humping long high balls forward. Victory had Nabbout and Toivenen, we had Luna and Maclaren - pretty obvious why they were more effective in the air.

We got Bart because of JvS, no-one else.

[Harrison]

14 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

If you read James Poole's bio he says he is in charge of the recruiting for Melbourne City, so presumably, yes, we are using the scouting network. Again you come back to the system we use with the players we've got. We obviously recruited Luna and Cabrera, and there's no point in playing a guy like Luna up front alongside Maclaren and then humping long high balls forward. Victory had Nabbout and Toivenen, we had Luna and Maclaren - pretty obvious why they were more effective in the air.

We got Bart because of JvS, no-one else.

That’s not the system we’ve set out to play. That’s the players resorting to something else when they aren’t able to execute it or they’re too lazy. Long balls to quick forwards are fine when the opposition are playing a high line, their central defenders are not very quick and the pressure on the ball isn’t high. No problems with trying that to be a little less predictable.

The types of players we have are fine for the system...they’re just not very good or good enough for it to work.  

[Mr MO]

40 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

If you read James Poole's bio he says he is in charge of the recruiting for Melbourne City, so presumably, yes, we are using the scouting network. Again you come back to the system we use with the players we've got. We obviously recruited Luna and Cabrera, and there's no point in playing a guy like Luna up front alongside Maclaren and then humping long high balls forward. Victory had Nabbout and Toivenen, we had Luna and Maclaren - pretty obvious why they were more effective in the air.

We got Bart because of JvS, no-one else.

Yeah I remember reading somewhere that JVS invited him to come here to get his body right after plenty of injury. It was always on the cards that when fit he would demand higher wages or seek a better league.

Where I get really confused looking at the events is that we did not meet Barts marquee demands hence Berenguer is our second marquee now. This can mean two things;

1 Berenguer is really backloaded and on unjustified high wage for the second season

2 by not paying Bart marquee wages, Florin was automatically promoted to marquee as he became the second highest earner.

Either way, in my personal opinion - we cheap and aren’t serious about paying decent money for a second marquee player. Especially when a player like Bart had proven to be suitable for the league.

Edited December 24, 2019 by Mr MO

[n i k o]

2 hours ago, Mr MO said:

Yeah I remember reading somewhere that JVS invited him to come here to get his body right after plenty of injury. It was always on the cards that when fit he would demand higher wages or seek a better league.

Where I get really confused looking at the events is that we did not meet Barts marquee demands hence Berenguer is our second marquee now. This can mean two things;

1 Berenguer is really backloaded and on unjustified high wage for the second season

2 by not paying Bart marquee wages, Florin was automatically promoted to marquee as he became the second highest earner.

Either way, in my personal opinion - we cheap and aren’t serious about paying decent money for a second marquee player. Especially when a player like Bart had proven to be suitable for the league.

I'd have been surprised if bort would want to stay even as marquee

Edited December 24, 2019 by n i k o

[Harrison]

48 minutes ago, n i k o said:

I'd have been surprised if bort would want to stay even as marquee

I got the feeling he did. The Club’s statement was they failed to reach an agreement after extensive negotiations. 

[Mr MO]

6 hours ago, n i k o said:

I'd have been surprised if bort would want to stay even as marquee

My understanding was that he wanted to stay under improved conditions, there was talks him going for marquee status mid way through the season.

Missed opportunity, because if you tie such players to the club for several years players then you create club player status what us fans want, especially if it’s a top player.

Edited December 24, 2019 by Mr MO

[Embee]

He wanted a million a year, which we weren't able to offer given Florins backended deal.

Sydney made him an offer also as far as I understand, although it also fell short of a mil a year, so he went overseas.