FB. Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 (edited) Another thread to keep us going over the off-season. Does anyone know where we are at with this issue? The ball is starting to move on a number of fronts in the league, with supporters in Newcastle and in West Sydney looking to establish Supporter Trusts for their respective clubs. From the start our board had flagged it's intention to eventually allow fans to buy into the club (which was one of the biggest reasons I got behind Melbourne Heart). They sent a fan survey out to members about this last year, but have not heard anything on this front since. I know the RWU guys were looking into this at one stage, and as Active Supporters we have had fairly preliminary discussions about purchasing a small parcel of shares. With the off-season upon us & the fan forum coming up it's good opportunity to start discussing this again. To get the ball rolling I'd be intrested to know; -What are people's thoughts on fan ownerhsip? -Would people care enough to buy into the club, and if so how much money would they be willing to contribute? -And following this, any suggestions for a fan ownership model? Edited April 23, 2012 by FB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deviant Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 good topic! would love to see something similar to this... http://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/4311/newsid/95995/default.aspx cost approx 25 bucks. (on top of the membership cost) Not sure how much I'll be willing to put in. depends on my financial situation at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesla Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 The way I see it, there wouldnt be many people up for it, considering our attendances and membership numbers. Only a small amount of those people would be willing to put up the cash for such a thing. Lets say it was $1000, how many people would actually be down for it, I'd venture to say the maximum would be 500. With 500K, the supporters trust would be a vary minority shareholder and wouldnt be able to have a lot of influence at the end of the day. Plus the other investors are constantly putting in more money, so the supporters trust would have to match it to keep their stake the same, so it would require an ongoing contribution rather than a once off from those interested. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 Good topic. Yes, what the hell happened to the survey that was conducted? Members definitely should have received feedback on the results. Would like to see fan ownership up to a maximum of, say 40%. Offer members the opportunity to subscribe for shares at the time of purchasing/renewing their membership. Of course, allowing people to purchase shares produces obligations on the club in the form of reporting, meetings, voting etc., adding to the overheads. I have no idea of what this would all cost, but it would be significant. It's not something to be undertaken lightly. No point in doing it if the benefits do not outweigh the costs of compliance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesla Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 (edited) Of course, allowing people to purchase shares produces obligations on the club in the form of reporting, meetings, voting etc., adding to the overheads. I have no idea of what this would all cost, but it would be significant. It's not something to be undertaken lightly. No point in doing it if the benefits do not outweigh the costs of compliance. This is why a Supporters Trust would be useful, have the Supporters Trust own the shares while the fans are members of the supporters trust. I dont see the club being prepared to sell small stakes individually because of what you have said, its the same reason there is a minimum parcel size for any company you want to buy shares in, and often companies are buying out shareholders with small shareholding because of the costs involved in having a lot of shareholders with small stakes. The other benefit is the Supporters Trust insures the fans vote as a block and so the influence from the fans' shareholding is maximised. Edited April 23, 2012 by Tesla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belaguttman Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 There's little point in 'taxation without representation' that is, why would supporters buy say 1% total of the club with no Board representation? This would be the goal of supporter ownership - a voice at Board level in both Governance and strategic direction of the club. It depends on what would be offered by the Board and then at what price. I think a seat on the Board usually requires around a 9-10% stake, so we'd have to have enough members putting up enough money to achieve this. Personally I think that it's the way to go for clubs but there are certainly practical difficulties that make alternatives like Tinkler and Palmer seem the easier option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted April 23, 2012 Report Share Posted April 23, 2012 Exeter City is one club that is owned by a Trust. The Trust itself has a web-site here: http://www.ecfcst.org.uk/ . Worth a glance anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argentinez Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 Yarraside to run all aspects of the club! Just give us the money! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tesla Posted April 26, 2012 Report Share Posted April 26, 2012 Yarraside to run all aspects of the club! Just give us the money! Would be bankrupt within a week TBH, going by what I see people post on here. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perthheart Posted April 26, 2012 Report Share Posted April 26, 2012 Is an excellent idea. If for nothing less than a way to reduce the losses of the club in it's formative years. Actually discussed this with a group of the other lads over here in Perth. I would think $1000 would be a minimum buy in to a supporters trust with a member elected by the trust members to represent it on an annual basis. I would hope that groups of fans could buy in as one vote. For example ten mates chip in $100 each to buy one vote on the supporters trust. This will give a majority of the fans more of an option to get involved. As setting $1000 as a minimum buy for one person would completely rule out at least 95% of the most active supporters. Any one fan should also be limited to buying ten votes meaning that someone with a large amount of money couldn't essentially buy out the supporters trust completely negating it's reason for being. Obviously the small percentage invested by such a fund wouldn't warrant a board member but a position in which the trust representive is able to directly voice the fans collective ideas to the board could only benefit the club. Provided the board is seen to be taking on board some of the ideas that the trust lobbies for. Otherwise it could easily just be seen as another way to get a few more dollars out of the supporter base. On top of this I think the way the supporter trust is lead will dictate it's success. If it is seen to be run by a few head figures who have not put any more money in than the rest it would be a pointless exercise. I would expect all major issues to be voted on by the rest of the trust members and the elected Representative to put forth these views regardless of their agreeance with the outcome of the vote. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendo Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 51% to us. 49% to the corporates. The basis of the German model is the 50+1 rule whereby a minimum of 51% of the club must be owned by club members. This still allows for considerable investment opportunities for private business to invest while preventing them from having overall control of the direction of the club. A Bundesliga club board is made up of delegates selected by the shareholders. That way the supporter membership associations or Mutterveiren have a direct say on the management of the club. The benefits to this method are clear, especially to English supporters who long for an end to the days where English clubs are subject to the whims and excesses of individual owners or uncaring capitalists who use their club to clear their own debts. Corporate interest is curtailed by the interests of the supporters. As long as the supporters have the best interest of the club at heart, that club is unlikely to allow itself to become mismanaged. http://pitchinvasion.net/blog/2010/03/11/fan-ownership-the-bundesliga-model/ Right now? Probably not, but this is the model we need to be driving towards. Make our football club part of civil society, a true community club. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deviant Posted May 8, 2012 Report Share Posted May 8, 2012 (edited) The basis of the German model is the 50+1 rule whereby a minimum of 51% of the club must be owned by club members. So jack up the price of the membership to incorporate a fan ownership fee of some sort - rather than a voluntary 'donation' as such, its a mandatory fee to give to the club as a member and share holder. So members become share holders automatically, BUT you have the option to have a say at the AGM on certain issues or not. it'll be up to you. EDIT: But i guess that would only work if the membership numbers add up to make the 50+1 :/ Edited May 8, 2012 by Deviate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FB. Posted May 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 (edited) Someone brought this up at the fan forum. Key points; -Club is still very much in favour of community ownership -To paraphrase Scott Munn "Club isn't just run for the owners to make profits, it's also about becoming apart of the community and giving back to the community and this is a good way of doing that" -Apparently 75% of members surveyed said they would take up a share offer (Very good response, David Kobritz thought we couldn't get 20%) -It will be a small offering at first -Shares will be sold in $500 parcels -Supporter rep will serve on the board to represent supporter intrests & shareholders All in all, I thought the answer given was top notch and has buoyed me with alot of confidence for the future. People will be cynical of the reasoning for this (ie. it's just a money grab to offset losses), but everything that was said yesterday indicated to me that they were genuine in wanting this and that they were doing it for the right reasons. Final point is that the board wants the club to be breaking even before they start this (get the house in order so to speak), which should occur next season if we hit our membership and sponsorhip targets. Which means we are probably at least 12 months away from this yet. Edited May 25, 2012 by FB. Wrong David lul 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caganer Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 Someone brought this up at the fan forum. Key points; -Apparently 75% of members surveyed said they would take up a share offer (Very good response, David Davutovic thought we couldn't get 20%) Correction. Not David Davutovic. David Kobritz (board member) forecast interest levels of no more than 20%. Board were surprised by the extent of interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huzie Posted June 21, 2012 Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 If Good is sold for $650,000 will be looking very good to "break even", also tv money to follow the next year! Safe to say fan ownership will be in next season, thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tranerz21 Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 What about something like the Greenbay packers have been doing with their shares http://www.packers.com/community/shareholders.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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