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Javier Cabrera

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jw1739    9,561

How odd. First the reference to Baccus disappearing from the Schenkeveld news release, and now Cabrera coming in completely under the radar.

Methinks a couple of news releases didn't quite get released.

 

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jw1739    9,561
39 minutes ago, Harrison said:

Someone’s having a shocker in the media department. 

IIRC we're still subject to "moderation" by the A-League web-site managers. It may not be the City media department's fault at all.

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mus-28    2,628

I prefer my South American wingers to have dirty mullets. All will be forgiven if he feigns injury to get Broxham sent off in a derby.

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mus-28    2,628
45 minutes ago, kiko said:

Speedy, quick thinking, finds space, what's not to like?

Doesn't have a mullet or look like a tip rat.

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Dylan    4,974

If he films Kangaroos every morning and has a cheeky dart every now and then. He is the new Tiprat

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haz    4,129
1 hour ago, kingofhearts said:

Has a sick YouTube montage, 10/10 signing

 

 

 

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jw1739    9,561
3 minutes ago, Imtellingyou said:

Couldn't we have Bruno and him to combine. 

You can thank Joyce for not having that.

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bt50    4,731
8 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

You can thank Joyce for not having that.

And Bruno. Very much made the rod for his own back.

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n i k o    6,143
6 minutes ago, bt50 said:

And Bruno. Very much made the rod for his own back.

Was it warranted? Could he see the writing on the wall with Joyces tactics?

 

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jw1739    9,561
18 minutes ago, n i k o said:

Was it warranted? Could he see the writing on the wall with Joyces tactics?

No.  A resolution should have been found before it became a festering sore. And @bt50 is quite correct - there were two parties to the dispute, and neither can wholly blame the other.

But time to move on.

Edited by jw1739

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bt50    4,731
20 hours ago, n i k o said:

Was it warranted? Could he see the writing on the wall with Joyces tactics?

 

Look there's no secret i totally disagree with Joyce's strategy and approach to the game, especially down here. Players are people too and very few enjoy that military style discipline, esp when they likely could earn better dosh elsewhere.
But that said, throwing your toys out of the cot the way Bruno did is hardly professional either, and at the end of the day they were the standards the playing group set, Joyce was just the enforcer. And again, Joyce did himself no favours by being a terrible communicator when it comes to that stuff either.

The blame is on both 100%, it just annoys me when people treat Bruno as if he was some can't do no wrong demi-god when it was his petulance that was one of the key ingredients to the shitstorm.

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n i k o    6,143

@jw1739 @bt50

I believe in taking sides in this scenario. Im not saying 100% but certainly favorable towards Bruno for countless reasons. On one side was Joyce, an unproven coach who eventually proved he is a poor senior coach. And the other is Bruno, a proven top player in the league. Given that Joyce already had run ins with other players, senior ones at that it shows Bruno had a point. This season under Popa will be further proof of this. Yes Bruno could have fallen in line. But as you say bt50 Joyce was the enforcer. There was no negotiation here, Bruno either had to become a yes man like the rest of the lemmings or fall out of favour. Whilst I'm not usually in favour of such behavior from a player, time had shown Bruno was spot on with his assessment of the situation. 

 

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bt50    4,731
20 minutes ago, n i k o said:

@jw1739 @bt50

I believe in taking sides in this scenario. Im not saying 100% but certainly favorable towards Bruno for countless reasons. On one side was Joyce, an unproven coach who eventually proved he is a poor senior coach. And the other is Bruno, a proven top player in the league. Given that Joyce already had run ins with other players, senior ones at that it shows Bruno had a point. This season under Popa will be further proof of this. Yes Bruno could have fallen in line. But as you say bt50 Joyce was the enforcer. There was no negotiation here, Bruno either had to become a yes man like the rest of the lemmings or fall out of favour. Whilst I'm not usually in favour of such behavior from a player, time had shown Bruno was spot on with his assessment of the situation. 

 

Disagree tbh. For one, the situation came about from Bruno not adhering to standards that playing group set, and then refusing to apologize or fall in line after the initial discretion(s). Now i totally disagree with those standards tbh, i think theyre far too restrictive in a league like this. And whilst the playing group might have set them, my experience with those sort of things is that they are designed in a way that players set things that the coach wants to hear, or what the players think the coach wants to hear anyway, not necessarily what people will actually be prepared to do in real life.
Nevertheless, that was what was in place and he effectively shat on his teammates by refusing to even acknowledge he fucked up. Im sure they'd have been understanding with a simple apology, you know, alright you cocked up but who cares, do better next time kinda thing.

The second point is that whilst we all might suspect some things in regards to yes men and how the conversations went down, at the end of the day we are totally speculating how that unfolded. Maybe Bruno wanted to fix it and sit down earnestly, maybe he turned his nose up at it. We don't know much, other than Joyce's track record and the associated assumptions, which ultimately imo shouldnt determine the outcome. It certainly wouldnt in a court of law.

FWIW i don't believe Joyce wanted to be surrounded by Yes Men, imo he was happy to discuss and debate approaches, but i think once something was agreed upon then he was ruthless in enforcing that. The problem is that some of those things are agreed upon because they sound like the right thing to do, esp in a group context, and to speak out seems like you aren't committed. But they are ultimately too draconian in practice.

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Heartman    13
57 minutes ago, bt50 said:

Disagree tbh. For one, the situation came about from Bruno not adhering to standards that playing group set, and then refusing to apologize or fall in line after the initial discretion(s). Now i totally disagree with those standards tbh, i think theyre far too restrictive in a league like this. And whilst the playing group might have set them, my experience with those sort of things is that they are designed in a way that players set things that the coach wants to hear, or what the players think the coach wants to hear anyway, not necessarily what people will actually be prepared to do in real life.
Nevertheless, that was what was in place and he effectively shat on his teammates by refusing to even acknowledge he fucked up. Im sure they'd have been understanding with a simple apology, you know, alright you cocked up but who cares, do better next time kinda thing.

The second point is that whilst we all might suspect some things in regards to yes men and how the conversations went down, at the end of the day we are totally speculating how that unfolded. Maybe Bruno wanted to fix it and sit down earnestly, maybe he turned his nose up at it. We don't know much, other than Joyce's track record and the associated assumptions, which ultimately imo shouldnt determine the outcome. It certainly wouldnt in a court of law.

FWIW i don't believe Joyce wanted to be surrounded by Yes Men, imo he was happy to discuss and debate approaches, but i think once something was agreed upon then he was ruthless in enforcing that. The problem is that some of those things are agreed upon because they sound like the right thing to do, esp in a group context, and to speak out seems like you aren't committed. But they are ultimately too draconian in practice.

If Bruno was the only example I could agree with you, but if you add Kilkenny which IMO is the perfect illustration on how Joyce and the club errored handling Fornaroli. 

Hopefully this will be the end of our endless cockups and Mombarets and the new CEO bring us a new success. 

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bt50    4,731
12 minutes ago, Heartman said:

If Bruno was the only example I could agree with you, but if you add Kilkenny which IMO is the perfect illustration on how Joyce and the club errored handling Fornaroli. 

Hopefully this will be the end of our endless cockups and Mombarets and the new CEO bring us a new success. 

Except you don't know what went down in either situation and neither do I.
That said, obviously whatever the approach was it didnt work, but it certainly doesnt mean that theres no fault attributable to the players either.

 

Hopefully you're spot on re the second point and this is the beginning of our golden era :rolleyes:

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haz    4,129
25 minutes ago, Missing_Moy said:

When's this bloke due tomland and get into training ? Cheeky bench appearance in the first FFA cup game ?

There's pictures of him training already, so I assume he started with everyone else. His last match was also only in June where he played 90 minutes.

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Missing_Moy    180
14 minutes ago, haz said:

There's pictures of him training already, so I assume he started with everyone else. His last match was also only in June where he played 90 minutes.

Sweet should start then 

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NewConvert    837
5 hours ago, Heartman said:

If Bruno was the only example I could agree with you, but if you add Kilkenny which IMO is the perfect illustration on how Joyce and the club errored handling Fornaroli. 

Hopefully this will be the end of our endless cockups and Mombarets and the new CEO bring us a new success. 

I would also Montemurro and Patsiliedis (or the former youth coach). I presume that they also wanted to talk tactics and methods with WJ and see how that worked out for them.

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Heartman    13
51 minutes ago, NewConvert said:

I would also Montemurro and Patsiliedis (or the former youth coach). I presume that they also wanted to talk tactics and methods with WJ and see how that worked out for them.

From memory Montemurro left before Joyce arrived.

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bt50    4,731
1 hour ago, Heartman said:

From memory Montemurro left before Joyce arrived.

Nah he was around for a bit. Difference in philosophy was the stated reason.

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NewConvert    837
11 hours ago, Heartman said:

From memory Montemurro left before Joyce arrived.

Nope. When Joyce arrived (June 17) Montemurro was chief assistant and departed late November 2017. Smart move.

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n i k o    6,143
21 hours ago, bt50 said:

Disagree tbh. For one, the situation came about from Bruno not adhering to standards that playing group set, and then refusing to apologize or fall in line after the initial discretion(s). Now i totally disagree with those standards tbh, i think theyre far too restrictive in a league like this. And whilst the playing group might have set them, my experience with those sort of things is that they are designed in a way that players set things that the coach wants to hear, or what the players think the coach wants to hear anyway, not necessarily what people will actually be prepared to do in real life.
Nevertheless, that was what was in place and he effectively shat on his teammates by refusing to even acknowledge he fucked up. Im sure they'd have been understanding with a simple apology, you know, alright you cocked up but who cares, do better next time kinda thing.

The second point is that whilst we all might suspect some things in regards to yes men and how the conversations went down, at the end of the day we are totally speculating how that unfolded. Maybe Bruno wanted to fix it and sit down earnestly, maybe he turned his nose up at it. We don't know much, other than Joyce's track record and the associated assumptions, which ultimately imo shouldnt determine the outcome. It certainly wouldnt in a court of law.

FWIW i don't believe Joyce wanted to be surrounded by Yes Men, imo he was happy to discuss and debate approaches, but i think once something was agreed upon then he was ruthless in enforcing that. The problem is that some of those things are agreed upon because they sound like the right thing to do, esp in a group context, and to speak out seems like you aren't committed. But they are ultimately too draconian in practice.

Ultimately for Joyce all his efforts would have led to a title if he were right, or at least good football to watch. Admittedly players should adhere to any rules they set for themselves. And I'm for players adhering to the coaches instructions. And if Bruno was an isolated incident I'd agree 100% with you. But with 2 coaches and multiple experienced and senior players exiting the club should be enough evidence to show just how poor a culture Joyce created. 

There are 2 sides to a story. But enough examples through the history of the world that it takes just 1 side to inevitably be the main perpetrator. I'll leave it at that and move on to talking about Javier. 

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bt50    4,731
9 minutes ago, n i k o said:

Ultimately for Joyce all his efforts would have led to a title if he were right, or at least good football to watch. Admittedly players should adhere to any rules they set for themselves. And I'm for players adhering to the coaches instructions. And if Bruno was an isolated incident I'd agree 100% with you. But with 2 coaches and multiple experienced and senior players exiting the club should be enough evidence to show just how poor a culture Joyce created. 

There are 2 sides to a story. But enough examples through the history of the world that it takes just 1 side to inevitably be the main perpetrator. I'll leave it at that and move on to talking about Javier. 

And that friends, is how you respectfully disagree with each other :D

Not sure what to make of Cabrera as a signing. South Americans are generally pretty hit or miss in this league as a rule and its difficult to judge whether we will play him as a 10 or a RW. Here's hoping.

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playmaker    1,429

Ask yourself two questions.

First one.

Would anyone want Wazza to manage the senior team of any team that you follow?

The answer is a resounding NO.

Second one.

Would you want Bruno back at our club?

The answer is a resounding YES.

Enough said.

 

Edited by playmaker
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