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Season's over. We now know where we are at. Start planning for 2019/20 now


Jovan
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I thinks it fair to say we now know where we are at.

We are now 9 points behind 3rd and 2 behind 4th our most likely finishing position will be 5th or 6th, with a winning run of 4 or 5 in a row we might lock in 4th as a season finish.  This is an absolute failure. Prior to round 1 when looking at all the playing lists and all things being equal with injury and suspensions national team duties we were realistically looking at a top 2 finish and if things fell into place maybe some silverware, and this view I might add wasn't seen as highly optimistic or delusional.  I can't see a way out of this for us. I honestly can't see Joyce being sacked or even stepping down before seasons end and I can't see any chance of improvement. As it stands now with 10 games remaining our season is over we should start looking at next season.

Edited by jw1739
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Can only really aim to win as many games as possible now and scrape 4th. Then hopefully put three good weeks together. Unlikely, but has to be the aim.

For me Joyce can't keep his job unless he qualifies for the ACL, which pretty much means winning the GF. Irrespective of what has happened off-field, as none of us really know truly whats happened there, the results haven't been there, we are awful to watch and Joyce has proven himself not good enough tactically in both our approach to, and reactions on game day (subs etc).

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2 minutes ago, bt50 said:

Can only really aim to win as many games as possible now and scrape 4th. Then hopefully put three good weeks together. Unlikely, but has to be the aim.

For me Joyce can't keep his job unless he qualifies for the ACL, which pretty much means winning the GF. Irrespective of what has happened off-field, as none of us really know truly whats happened there, the results haven't been there, we are awful to watch and Joyce has proven himself not good enough tactically in both our approach to, and reactions on game day (subs etc).

Even if we do go on a great run now and enter the finals with some good form, I really question the mental fortitude of the squad to do a Victory from last year. WJ has turned the squad over so many times and the latest two attacking signings are his last chance. No excuses.

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I don't think that the season is over, we'll make the finals, but, even with Maclaren, I can't see us winning an away final. The team is stagnating under Joyce, in some ways it's better than before, in other ways worse, but there's no sign of ongoing evolution of this team. I don't think that the problem is solely the recruiting, players or coach, but, I do think that Wazza has taken the team as far as he can

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I question whether WJ can actually assemble a title-winning squad. He signs players then doesn’t play them. He has signed so many similar players, neglecting crucial areas of the pitch.

The two latest signings are the last roll of the dice I assume. Harrison is a curious one because transfermarkt has him as a ST/CF and we really needed a winger. But that’s pretty typical WJ.

Squad construction is just so important in our league and, presuming that WJ has a big say in who gets signed, he’s not done very well.  

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5 minutes ago, Harrison said:

I question whether WJ can actually assemble a title-winning squad. He signs players then doesn’t play them. He has signed so many similar players, neglecting crucial areas of the pitch.

The two latest signings are the last roll of the dice I assume. Harrison is a curious one because transfermarkt has him as a ST/CF and we really needed a winger. But that’s pretty typical WJ.

Squad construction is just so important in our league and, presuming that WJ has a big say in who gets signed, he’s not done very well.  

Yeah, Harrison is it for me. I guess we all sort of know what we are going to get with Maclaren, but it's what this lad could bring that has me excited - or at least very positively curious.

A lot for a young lad to take on, but my hope for him is he can be similar to Novillo, or maybe even Arzani in some ways, where he can take the game on and give the defence someone else to actually worry about. Having this type of player weill also make our midfield want to move the ball quicker to him which can stretch the defence even more and give Maclaren some sort of space to work in or run into.

But if he just turns out to be another player similar to what we already have, then I don't think we'll see the best of Maclaren and hence things won't be much different I am afraid. 

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39 minutes ago, belaguttman said:

I don't think that the season is over, we'll make the finals, but, even with Maclaren, I can't see us winning an away final. The team is stagnating under Joyce, in some ways it's better than before, in other ways worse, but there's no sign of ongoing evolution of this team. I don't think that the problem is solely the recruiting, players or coach, but, I do think that Wazza has taken the team as far as he can

You cant keep turning over squads, isolating players, and being an absolute fruitloop by playing players out of position and expect a stable club.

In all honesty players will be looking in and thinking something aint right its career suicide by going to city unless theyre getting paid a truck load and dont really give a crap.

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1 hour ago, rass said:

Even if we do go on a great run now and enter the finals with some good form, I really question the mental fortitude of the squad to do a Victory from last year. WJ has turned the squad over so many times and the latest two attacking signings are his last chance. No excuses.

Hasnt had any excuses this season that are valid anyway imo.
I dont think we are capable either, but nonetheless thats got to be the aim. Maybe the signings can transform us, who knows.

41 minutes ago, Harrison said:

I question whether WJ can actually assemble a title-winning squad. He signs players then doesn’t play them. He has signed so many similar players, neglecting crucial areas of the pitch.

The two latest signings are the last roll of the dice I assume. Harrison is a curious one because transfermarkt has him as a ST/CF and we really needed a winger. But that’s pretty typical WJ.

Squad construction is just so important in our league and, presuming that WJ has a big say in who gets signed, he’s not done very well.  

He can put together a title winning squad imo, but whether he can keep it together or actually coach it is the problem.

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6 minutes ago, AntiScum said:

You cant keep turning over squads, isolating players, and being an absolute fruitloop by playing players out of position and expect a stable club.

In all honesty players will be looking in and thinking something aint right its career suicide by going to city unless theyre getting paid a truck load and dont really give a crap.

I agree, that high squad turnover has always been a problem for us, we even change 1/4 of the list every January

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4 minutes ago, bt50 said:

Hasnt had any excuses this season that are valid anyway imo.
I dont think we are capable either, but nonetheless thats got to be the aim. Maybe the signings can transform us, who knows.

He can put together a title winning squad imo, but whether he can keep it together or actually coach it is the problem.

No doubt we’ve got a talented squad but it is unbalanced to the point where it can’t function effectively.

I don’t think he can assemble a squad that is good enough to win a title but he can assemble a talented squad with depth in a few areas. 

But as you say, whether he can coach it is another huge issue and he’s further away now than last season. 

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1 hour ago, Jovan said:

I thinks it fair to say we now know were we are at.

We are now 9 points behind 3rd and 2 behind 4th our most likely finishing position will be 5th or 6th, with a winning run of 4 or 5 in a row we might lock in 4th as a season finish.  This is an absolute failure. Prior to round 1 when looking at all the playing lists and all things being equal with injury and suspensions national team duties we were realistically looking at a top 2 finish and if things fell into place maybe some silverware, and this view I might add wasn't seen as highly optimistic or delusional.  I can't see a way out of this for us. I honestly can't see Joyce being sacked or even stepping down before seasons end and I can't see any chance of improvement. As it stands now with 10 games remaining our season is over we should start looking at next season.

Huge task ahead. 10 matches to go, 5 at home and 5 away. IMO we're looking at somewhere in the range of 9-15 points at home, and 2-5 away, so somewhere in the range 11-20 points from here, i.e. a season total of 38-47 points. I've been saying 5th or 6th for a while now.

Then we look ahead to next season. Not only the coaching staff (not just Joyce), but also the players. Players and their contract expiry dates are shown below.

Goalkeepers.
James Delianov (S)                   31/5/19
Eugene Galekovic                      31/5/19
Mark Birighitti                            31/5/21
Dean Bouzanis                           31/5/20


Defenders.
Dylan Pierias (S)                         31/5/19
Scott Jamieson                          31/5/21
Iacopo La Rocca                        31/5/19
Bart Schenkeveld (V)                 31/5/19
Harrison Delbridge                    31/5/20
Rostyn Griffiths                          31/5/20
Ritchie de Laet (V,L)                   31/5/19
Curtis Good                                 31/5/19

Midfielders.
Ramy Najjarine (S)                     31/5/20
Riley McGree (L)                          31/5/19
Lachlan Wales                             31/5/19
Luke Brattan (L)                           31/5/19
Florin Berenguer (V)                   ???????
Kearyn Baccus                            31/5/22

Forwards.
Bruno Fornaroli (M,V)                 31/5/19
Dario Vidosic                               31/5/19
Nathaniel Atkinson                     31/5/20
Moudi Najjar  (S)                         31/5/19
Jamie Maclaren (V)                    31/5/22
Shayon Harrison (L,V)                 31/5/19
Denis Genreau (S)                       31/5/20

Players contracted for next season are in bold. Now, I may have missed a couple for whom the status has not been clarified - e.g. Metcalfe and Cavallo. Also the duration of Berenguer's contract has never been stated.

But the above is something to work from when considering who to retain and who should go.

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1 minute ago, jw1739 said:

Huge task ahead. 10 matches to go, 5 at home and 5 away. IMO we're looking at somewhere in the range of 9-15 points at home, and 2-5 away, so somewhere in the range 11-20 points from here, i.e. a season total of 38-47 points. I've been saying 5th or 6th for a while now.

Then we look ahead to next season. Not only the coaching staff (not just Joyce), but also the players. Players and their contract expiry dates are shown below.

Goalkeepers.
James Delianov (S)                   31/5/19
Eugene Galekovic                      31/5/19
Mark Birighitti                            31/5/21
Dean Bouzanis                           31/5/20


Defenders.
Dylan Pierias (S)                         31/5/19
Scott Jamieson                          31/5/21
Iacopo La Rocca                        31/5/19
Bart Schenkeveld (V)                 31/5/19
Harrison Delbridge                    31/5/20
Rostyn Griffiths                          31/5/20
Ritchie de Laet (V,L)                   31/5/19
Curtis Good                                 31/5/19

Midfielders.
Ramy Najjarine (S)                     31/5/20
Riley McGree (L)                          31/5/19
Lachlan Wales                             31/5/19
Luke Brattan (L)                           31/5/19
Florin Berenguer (V)                   ???????
Kearyn Baccus                            31/5/22

Forwards.
Bruno Fornaroli (M,V)                 31/5/19
Dario Vidosic                               31/5/19
Nathaniel Atkinson                     31/5/20
Moudi Najjar  (S)                         31/5/19
Jamie Maclaren (V)                    31/5/22
Shayon Harrison (L,V)                 31/5/19
Denis Genreau (S)                       31/5/20

Players contracted for next season are in bold. Now, I may have missed a couple for whom the status has not been clarified - e.g. Metcalfe and Cavallo. Also the duration of Berenguer's contract has never been stated.

But the above is something to work from when considering who to retain and who should go.

being realistic it looks like another end of season mass turn over. Dario Vidosic , Bruno Fornaroli, Florin Berenguer, Luke Brattan/Ritchie de Laet (will go elsewhere for bigger money) Iacopo La Rocca, Eugene Galekovic  

Im expecting the above to all leave

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Thing I'm probably most interested in for next season at the moment is our keeper situation

I think Birighitti might leave for more opportunities (possibly at CCM or WSW), that leaves us with Galekovic, Delianov and the returning Bouzanis (if he returns) 

If its a choice between Eugene or Bouzanis, in going with Bouzanis 

But then do we release Eugene so that Delianov is the number 2, as everyone thinks he is a real prospect 

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55 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

But the above is something to work from when considering who to retain and who should go.

Keep Luke Brattan and Bart Schenkeveld. A few of the young blokes are close to earning another contract. 

If Florin Berenguer can make an impact for the remainder of the season then he can stay but there aren't many I'd keep.

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7 minutes ago, neio said:

Thing I'm probably most interested in for next season at the moment is our keeper situation

I think Birighitti might leave for more opportunities (possibly at CCM or WSW), that leaves us with Galekovic, Delianov and the returning Bouzanis (if he returns) 

If its a choice between Eugene or Bouzanis, in going with Bouzanis 

But then do we release Eugene so that Delianov is the number 2, as everyone thinks he is a real prospect 

Didnt Bouzanis have a falling out with Wazza? Id imagine if Wazza gets an extension we wont be seeing Bouzanis in a city shirt

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At our most optimistic, I reckon 21 points. Won't get all of them, because there will be slip ups and poor performances, but we have a chance to win six, I reckon - Adelaide at home next week, Jets away, WSW away, Brisbane and Adelaide at home, CCM at home.  Three games are no more than draws - Victory, Perth and Wellington (though who knows, at our best, and with functioning strikers, we could swing all three - but we frequently play our worst, not our best) - and the Sydney game is a nailed on capitulation. If we do as well as this, we'll make 4th (beating Adelaide twice at home will be critical to this - we're looking to best Adelaide and Wellington now, not catch Sydney). Otherwise 5th or 6th may be our best and no chance from there of progressing far in the finals. Our best hope, as others have suggested, is that the two new signings change the mood in the camp and the performances on the field, and we can then go into finals from 4th in some decent form. Pigs will still be flying if we win it, but it would at least be good to have a decent crack. We're not in ACL again on that basis, and we inevitably have a lot of rebuilding to do, and possibly a new manager.

Of the out of contract players, I'd be wanting to try and retain Pierias, Bart, Good, McGree, Wales, Brattan and even Flo (depends on what he does over the next few games, but has shown signs of being serviceable), plus Najjar. If Harrison turns out to be good, and Spurs are prepared to extend, lets see what we can do. I'd also prefer to keep Delianov rather than Bouzanis.  My calculations are that we'd have a couple of visas to play with at best, and no marquees (assuming Bart and MacLaren taking those if both stay). That's assuming no changes to rules on caps, visas, marquees. We'll be looking for at least 6-7 players.

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1 hour ago, jw1739 said:

Goalkeepers.

Mark Birighitti                            31/5/21
Dean Bouzanis                           31/5/20


Defenders.
Dylan Pierias (S)                         31/5/19
Bart Schenkeveld (V)                 31/5/19
Harrison Delbridge                    31/5/20
Ritchie de Laet (V,L)                   31/5/19
Curtis Good                                 31/5/19

Midfielders.
Riley McGree (L)                          31/5/19
Luke Brattan (L)                           31/5/19
Florin Berenguer (V)                   ???????

Forwards.
Bruno Fornaroli (M,V)                 31/5/19
Jamie Maclaren (V)                    31/5/22
Shayon Harrison (L,V)                 31/5/19

 

Only ones worth keeping. ^^^^^

Get rid of the rest

Bring in a good LB, a boss DM, and 2 fast LW RW SS type players.

Then fill the bench with youth.

 

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23 minutes ago, playmaker said:

Only ones worth keeping. ^^^^^

Get rid of the rest

Bring in a good LB, a boss DM, and 2 fast LW RW SS type players.

Then fill the bench with youth.

 

Joyce or no Joyce, I will happily buy you a slab if we retain Bruno for next season.

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Don't panic, guys. We are ready to shift up gears.  In the meantime, everyone else will shift into reverse.  Including Sydney who are just 8 points above with much better GD, on a 7 games winning streak and even signed a better striker than we did. 

We aren't the same club to pull off visitors heroics from the last year. Also, defeating Glory away would be much, much  harder than Jets.

Some massive names will departure. Is McGree only signed for this season ? Lastly but not least, we need a really good coach, as for healthy squad and for bigger crowd. 

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One thing I want sorted for next season is to have 2 players in every position that are capable to be called upon

At the moment we have no back up left back, no real number 10, no back up striker and no left winger. Its terrible squad management 

You look at Perth and they can just about swap out their first 11 and still be very competitive. Velaphi, Neville, Grant, Djulbic, Brimmer, Wilson, Ferriera, Italiano, Chianese, Santalab are all not in what I'll call their best 11 but can fill a role and all different players

We have 3 right backs, 4 centre backs and about 9 Central midfielders. It just doesn't work 

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3 hours ago, neio said:

One thing I want sorted for next season is to have 2 players in every position that are capable to be called upon

At the moment we have no back up left back, no real number 10, no back up striker and no left winger. Its terrible squad management 

You look at Perth and they can just about swap out their first 11 and still be very competitive. Velaphi, Neville, Grant, Djulbic, Brimmer, Wilson, Ferriera, Italiano, Chianese, Santalab are all not in what I'll call their best 11 but can fill a role and all different players

We have 3 right backs, 4 centre backs and about 9 Central midfielders. It just doesn't work 

Some would argue we don't even have one player capable in quite a few positions 

Edited by n i k o
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3 hours ago, kingofhearts said:

No point talking about this until Joyce is gone, the club will not go anywhere until he is removed

Makes zero sense to keep him with so many high profile player clashes. Unless its a directive from the club to get the highest earners off the books.

No sure if anyone can answer this , would melbourne city Salary Cap have anything to do with Manchester`s TPP & Fair Play seeing they fall under the same group?

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51 minutes ago, AntiScum said:

Makes zero sense to keep him with so many high profile player clashes. Unless its a directive from the club to get the highest earners off the books.

No sure if anyone can answer this , would melbourne city Salary Cap have anything to do with Manchester`s TPP & Fair Play seeing they fall under the same group?

Totally separate, but getting players essentially for free and on selling them will benefit their FFP limit certainly, also the Mooy fee alone has paid overs in everything they have invested so far and they will probably get a future fee as well.

I think their 'mindshare' has a fee attached and could be an offset as well

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