Rd. 12 - Fri 11th January 2019 vs. Brisbane, AAMI Park, 7.50 pm.

[CityWildcat]

It was scary near the end (thanks, DV), but 3 points is 3 points.

I am really liking our capo-less Active.

ON the pitch, we are gonna need to be a whole lot better next Saturday.   Or Perth will stuff us.  

[HughJass]

Weird match first 20-25 minutes city dominated then Roar seemed to get some control. 2nd half started well, got the goal and then seemed to loose control/got quite boring.

Enjoyed the new terrace, what is the last line in the Bort chant?

[Imtellingyou]

It was a laughable line-up with all this defenders.  In Championship he wouldn't be coaching on Monday.  That's why he's here. A-league decline helped him a lot. 

The club with minimal crowd, community and media attention (including fan forum) will have a hard time next two years despite results. 

[wombegongal]

Look I'm no Joyce fan but fuck me if this isn't the most pessimistic forum. We have won 3 on the trot. I actually thought we were the better side for much closer to 70 minutes. The last 20 mins we looked deadset average. If Wales was a little more composed we would have won that at least 3 - 0. For all the ribbing he is getting I thought wales had a good game outside of his finishing. He is certainly getting into good spots. Our combinations to get forward seemed much slicker than previously. I think the players (and coach) actually deserve some credit for making roar look average for most of the match.

I find the Fornaroli thing strange, I saw him walking into the stadium he gave me a smile. I agree with BT on this we don't have all the facts and should let this play out as annoying as it is. 

End of the day we got the result and are equal second. The doom and gloom on this forum is actually killing me to the point I check it less than I used too. 

 

 

[rass]

26 minutes ago, wombegongal said:

Look I'm no Joyce fan but fuck me if this isn't the most pessimistic forum. We have won 3 on the trot. I actually thought we were the better side for much closer to 70 minutes. The last 20 mins we looked deadset average. If Wales was a little more composed we would have won that at least 3 - 0. For all the ribbing he is getting I thought wales had a good game outside of his finishing. He is certainly getting into good spots. Our combinations to get forward seemed much slicker than previously. I think the players (and coach) actually deserve some credit for making roar look average for most of the match.

I find the Fornaroli thing strange, I saw him walking into the stadium he gave me a smile. I agree with BT on this we don't have all the facts and should let this play out as annoying as it is. 

End of the day we got the result and are equal second. The doom and gloom on this forum is actually killing me to the point I check it less than I used too. 

 

 

Everything about this post is spot on.

[jw1739]

Attendance is recorded as 6,348.

Just an interesting point about "entertainment" - Wellington last night drew over 10,000 for their match against Central Coast. They're on a roll, and their front three of Krishna, Singh and Williams are an exciting trio to watch.

Selective statistics are always dangerous, but I find the comparison interesting.

[bt50]

1 hour ago, jw1739 said:

Attendance is recorded as 6,348.

Just an interesting point about "entertainment" - Wellington last night drew over 10,000 for their match against Central Coast. They're on a roll, and their front three of Krishna, Singh and Williams are an exciting trio to watch.

Selective statistics are always dangerous, but I find the comparison interesting.

Welly is a bit of a one off if you look at their usual crowds however there was a couple of things that produced that crowd

- The team is currently doing well, and playing pretty good attacking football.

- Due to point A, the fans are starting to remember why they love their club. With the talk around the Nix being binned, there is prob a bit of a concerted effort to turn up atm and try to do something to make their 'metrics' start to look a bit more respectable

- They had a major promo where one of their members was going to win $27k if the crowd got to 10k

[belaguttman]

16 hours ago, wombegongal said:

Look I'm no Joyce fan but fuck me if this isn't the most pessimistic forum. We have won 3 on the trot. I actually thought we were the better side for much closer to 70 minutes. The last 20 mins we looked deadset average. If Wales was a little more composed we would have won that at least 3 - 0. For all the ribbing he is getting I thought wales had a good game outside of his finishing. He is certainly getting into good spots. Our combinations to get forward seemed much slicker than previously. I think the players (and coach) actually deserve some credit for making roar look average for most of the match.

I find the Fornaroli thing strange, I saw him walking into the stadium he gave me a smile. I agree with BT on this we don't have all the facts and should let this play out as annoying as it is. 

End of the day we got the result and are equal second. The doom and gloom on this forum is actually killing me to the point I check it less than I used too. 

 

 

My beef with Joyce is that he hadn't recruited a backup striker when there's been a consistent pattern of creative players not fitting into his system. If you gamble that you can make it work with a sole striker on the list then you have to make it work, build the team style and tactics around him, or, develop an effective tactical Plan B (that is effective against all teams, not just poor teams). I'd argue that a half-hearted Bruno is still more effective than no Bruno, and it was disappointing that Joyce dropped him after he'd scored his first goal, a mistake on Joyce's part I think. I don't buy the 'fat and lazy' perjoratives used on him, he was so relieved to score his first goal, and the team celebrated with him. He isn't a tireless 90-minute presser, the only role Joyce seems to have had for a striker, but, then, why didn't Joyce let him leave pre-season and recruit someone like Matt Simon, who can do that role (and little else). The whole team is less effective without a striker.

The reason for pessimism is that we have all been here so many times before, the mid-season clearout, the failed visa players, the high mid-season ladder position followed by the late season wobbles. It's all pointing to maybe a 4th place finish as I can't see us beating any of the teams above us, nor, on its day, Rudan's Wellington. This is not progress. Pessimism isn't doom and gloom, that was being coached by Aloisi, it's that we see the same issues every season, they just slightly transform.

[jw1739]

When I was a lad the match-day programmes were numbered, and a number was drawn at half-time for the prize. Can't remember what the prize was though! But these sorts of things are an incentive and keep people interested.

We could do something like that. Not with programmes perhaps, but with attendance. There are only 13-14 home matches - wouldn't break the club for the prize to be free membership for next season (just as an example).

[jw1739]

4 minutes ago, belaguttman said:

My beef with Joyce is that he hadn't recruited a backup striker when there's been a consistent pattern of creative players not fitting into his system. If you gamble that you can make it work with a sole striker on the list then you have to make it work, build the team style and tactics around him, or, develop an effective tactical Plan B (that is effective against all teams, not just poor teams). I'd argue that a half-hearted Bruno is still more effective than no Bruno, and it was disappointing that Joyce dropped him after he'd scored his first goal, a mistake on Joyce's part I think. I don't buy the 'fat and lazy' perjoratives used on him, he was so relieved to score his first goal, and the team celebrated with him. He isn't a tireless 90-minute presser, the only role Joyce seems to have had for a striker, but, then, why didn't Joyce let him leave pre-season and recruit someone like Matt Simon, who can do that role (and little else). The whole team is less effective without a striker.

The reason for pessimism is that we have all been here so many times before, the mid-season clearout, the failed visa players, the high mid-season ladder position followed by the late season wobbles. It's all pointing to maybe a 4th place finish as I can't see us beating any of the teams above us, nor, on its day, Rudan's Wellington. This is not progress. Pessimism isn't doom and gloom, that was being coached by Aloisi, it's that we see the same issues every season, they just slightly transform.

Yes, I don't believe for a minute that the issue was Bruno looking at moving to another club in the off-season. If that were the case, Joyce wouldn't have played him at all this season. Whatever the issue really is, it occurred between the Wellington home match and the Brisbane away match.

Pessimism? Quite apart from all the things Bela rightly mentions, this season the club has completely lost touch with its supporters.

[NewConvert]

From my perspective yes we can say that we are on a roll and we are getting points but we also should acknowledge that this isn't due to great football. A lot of it has been luck which is bound to run out. The club was lucky against the Roar. From where I sat, Brisbane scored the first goal and the linesman was blatantly wrong as was the ref who blew the whistle too fast. If that goal had been allowed to stand the team would have been chasing the game. And yes Wales does the runs, gets into position but cannot finish. Williams and Gol Gol used to do that as well. The club is brittle on the pitch.

And as many others have pointed out, the clubs is losing touch with its supporters.

[rass]

 

4 minutes ago, NewConvert said:

From my perspective yes we can say that we are on a roll and we are getting points but we also should acknowledge that this isn't due to great football. A lot of it has been luck which is bound to run out. The club was lucky against the Roar. From where I sat, Brisbane scored the first goal and the linesman was blatantly wrong as was the ref who blew the whistle too fast. If that goal had been allowed to stand the team would have been chasing the game. And yes Wales does the runs, gets into position but cannot finish. Williams and Gol Gol used to do that as well. The club is brittle on the pitch.

And as many others have pointed out, the clubs is losing touch with its supporters.

We were lucky against roar? If we were lucky, then I'll counter by saying roar were even luckier X 50 that they even got within 3 goals of us.

Just because we played an unattractive, defensive 25 minutes doesn't mean we were lucky.

Starting to get a bit sick of these same old posts week in week out TBH.

[Tommykins]

1 minute ago, rass said:

 

We were lucky against roar? If we were lucky, then I'll counter by saying roar were even luckier X 50 that they even got within 3 goals of us.

Just because we played an unattractive, defensive 25 minutes doesn't mean we were lucky.

Starting to get a bit sick of these same old posts week in week out TBH.

Yep thought the first half was particularly good. Jamie Young made a few great saves.

[belaguttman]

4 minutes ago, rass said:

 

We were lucky against roar? If we were lucky, then I'll counter by saying roar were even luckier X 50 that they even got within 3 goals of us.

Just because we played an unattractive, defensive 25 minutes doesn't mean we were lucky.

Starting to get a bit sick of these same old posts week in week out TBH.

I'd agree that Roar was even luckier that they got within 3 goals of us

[kingofhearts]

We're beating the teams we should beat but as @belaguttman said when we play the Perths and victorie's of the league we won't be going anywhere.

We're a mid table team as currently constructed

[Imtellingyou]

Happiness is not measured by individual opinions. It's measured with crowd numbers on the stands. We have a positive run and good ladder position.  But still 6k on the gate. That's a pitiful number for Melbourne.  Melbourne sport loving people cannot be fooled. In the same time lower Phoenix has 10k in Wellington against the rock bottom team.

There were only 3 pages on the forum after beating Brisbane. It used to be three times more in the past.

Since round one of the past season there is a fan downward trend. A fan paying for the game and game experience wants entertainment and results.  Crowd is not after watching overseas defenders  playing strikers just because league/coaching is so weak.

When we open top deck in normal game that would be litmus test.

. 

[playmaker]

4 hours ago, rass said:

even luckier X 50 that they even got within 3 goals of us.

It's not due to luck, it is due to us not having a striker. Until we get one then teams will be closer than they should and we will lose and draw games that we shouldn't, hence why we will end up 4th or lower as many have stated here already.

Don't ignore the elephant in the room

Edited January 13, 2019 by playmaker

[rass]

29 minutes ago, playmaker said:

It's not due to luck, it is due to us not having a striker. Until we get one then teams will be closer than they should and we will lose and draw games that we shouldn't, hence why we will end up 4th or lower as many have stated here already.

Don't ignore the elephant in the room

Look at the whole reply. That comment was made in context to the poster's version of luck. I totally agree we need a striker FWIW.

Don't ignore the whole statement just so you can find a reason to make yourself silly again...

...and again....

...and again...

[playmaker]

7 minutes ago, rass said:

Look at the whole reply. That comment was made in context to the poster's version of luck. I totally agree we need a striker FWIW.

Don't ignore the whole statement just so you can find a reason to make yourself silly again...

...and again....

...and again...

I did read the whole post hence my answer. The previous poster said we were lucky not to be one down and you said what you did.

And my answer was that the only reason for that situation was that we don't convert because we haven't got a striker, therefore with a good striker to convert opportunities we wouldn't be in that position.

Nothing to do with luck and all to do with picking your best squad which includes a striker (elephant in the room).

Didn't have a go, just made a statement.

You really need to calm down mate and stop attacking people that want to have a say.

You don't like what I say then just ignore my posts, simple.

[rass]

1 hour ago, playmaker said:

I did read the whole post hence my answer. The previous poster said we were lucky not to be one down and you said what you did.

And my answer was that the only reason for that situation was that we don't convert because we haven't got a striker, therefore with a good striker to convert opportunities we wouldn't be in that position.

Nothing to do with luck and all to do with picking your best squad which includes a striker (elephant in the room).

Didn't have a go, just made a statement.

You really need to calm down mate and stop attacking people that want to have a say.

You don't like what I say then just ignore my posts, simple.

C'mon mate. About 90% of your posts are written provocatively. When someone bites (like I always do), you tell them to calm down??? 

It's pretty hard to ignore someone who I seriously believe just jumps on here looking to get a reaction. In the end, it just completely spoils my experience on here. As others have said, this forum is becoming increasingly more difficult to be a part of.

[n i k o]

On 12 January 2019 at 6:50 PM, wombegongal said:

Look I'm no Joyce fan but fuck me if this isn't the most pessimistic forum. We have won 3 on the trot. I actually thought we were the better side for much closer to 70 minutes. The last 20 mins we looked deadset average. If Wales was a little more composed we would have won that at least 3 - 0. For all the ribbing he is getting I thought wales had a good game outside of his finishing. He is certainly getting into good spots. Our combinations to get forward seemed much slicker than previously. I think the players (and coach) actually deserve some credit for making roar look average for most of the match.

I find the Fornaroli thing strange, I saw him walking into the stadium he gave me a smile. I agree with BT on this we don't have all the facts and should let this play out as annoying as it is. 

End of the day we got the result and are equal second. The doom and gloom on this forum is actually killing me to the point I check it less than I used too. 

 

 

This is a well written post and I quite agree with this. People have been far too negative considering the results. I think the way we've closed out games is a contentious point and quite rightly people have every right to be disgruntled. But we've performed considerably well as a team and credit must be given. 

As to the negativity toward the club itself this has been well deserved and warrants continued criticism. The lack of connection to the supporters is at an all time low.  

Edited January 13, 2019 by n i k o

[jw1739]

5 minutes ago, n i k o said:

As to the negativity toward the club itself this has been well deserved and warrants continued criticism. The lack of connection to the supporters is at an all time low.  

IMO this is what is causing all the negativity. It just spills everywhere. A form of depression really.

[playmaker]

1 hour ago, rass said:

C'mon mate. About 90% of your posts are written provocatively. When someone bites (like I always do), you tell them to calm down??? 

It's pretty hard to ignore someone who I seriously believe just jumps on here looking to get a reaction. In the end, it just completely spoils my experience on here. As others have said, this forum is becoming increasingly more difficult to be a part of.

That's your view but it is not my intention.

I am just pissed of with the whole Wazza/Bruno issue and the fact that it is limiting our full potential as a club this season.

All this stuff is what gets done off season so there is no drama while we focus on winning.

What should have happened is Wazza should have said to Bruno that we need him until the Jan transfer, keep playing him, made it public and move him on.

The resultant outcome would have been totally different.

Anyway, whatever, I just want a very good striker on the pitch so we are 3-0 up when we should be, whoever that may be I don't care, I want us to destroy the opposition and win everything.

As I said, if you don't like my posts then just hit the ignore button in your settings. Simple as that.

[n i k o]

2 hours ago, jw1739 said:

IMO this is what is causing all the negativity. It just spills everywhere. A form of depression really.

And it's warranted jw1739. For me personally, and I can't say why on this forum, but I have reason to have issue with the decisions people at the club are making. There's an obvious indifference and/or ignorance on their part towards supporters. 

[HughJass]

Seeing what victory is doing to roar and compare it to Friday completely different 

[haz]

20 minutes ago, HughJass said:

Seeing what victory is doing to roar and compare it to Friday completely different 

Yea but we had possession

[Thrillhouse]

Brisbane rested players tonight? looks like it, Gotta be banking on a win on the weekend against ccm

[Tommykins]

Victory did well to score as many as they did, but Taggart and D'Agostino were absolutely hopeless in front of goal for the evening. Brisbane has a lot more chances that Victory, but that's the way football goes.

[dconder13]

1 hour ago, Tommykins said:

Victory did well to score as many as they did, but Taggart and D'Agostino were absolutely hopeless in front of goal for the evening. Brisbane has a lot more chances that Victory, but that's the way football goes.

Agree Visitors played well but the team Brisbane fielded was laughable

[SF33]

21 hours ago, HughJass said:

Seeing what victory is doing to roar and compare it to Friday completely different 

It's frustrating that Victory seems to have those lay-the-smackdown wins all the time, while about two thirds of our wins seem to be heart in the mouth stuff. But I'd agree with others that the negativity here is a bit tiresome.

I'd suggest that the reason these one goal wins where it feels like we're dominating the first 60 minutes and then desperately keeping the opposition out for the final 30 are because under other coaches and in other years, we have been notoriously questionable at locking down and preserving result. Say what you want about Joyce, but nobody has pinched a last gasp win against us this year. For all the drudgery of the games, we've certainly got that backbone that we'd been constantly looking for through the JVS and JA years.

Someone else mentioned that we'll get found out against the top teams. Well, we've got a win and a draw (which was the least we deserved) from two starts against Victory and we gave Perth everything it could handle going down by a goal over there, with only one visa player appearing and a red card. Despite coming back to the pack this year, Sydney's the one that worries me. No matter what team they put on the park, they just seem to belt us every time, ever since our FFA Cup win. Apart from them, even when we were playing poorly, we've always seemed to hold our own against top teams.

I've always thought that an A-League team is defined by its visa players. Well, this season, we've had two stars - De Laet and Schenkeveld and effectively nothing else from our foreign contracted players. Now you could look at that either way, but I'm willing to say that it's a good sign that we could get a lot better and that our Australian talent is excellent. Even assuming we continue the season with the team that we have, our patchy finals record overall, the prospect of an away final in Perth and Sydney's hoodoo over us are the only real causes for concern. We haven't been badly beaten in nearly two months and people act like it's the Aloisi era. We're playing the bottom team who is without a win for the whole season (granted, a recipe for disaster for any long-time Heart/City supporter) and then the top team at home with plenty to prove. I fully expect to win both games and I'm sure Joyce would be demanding nothing less. 

[rass]

I'll simplify even further the reason why we are playing boring defensive football at the end of games:

- because most of those times, we're at actually leading the match. Not sure if a lot of people here actually understand that little fact...

[rayv36]

2 hours ago, rass said:

I'll simplify even further the reason why we are playing boring defensive football at the end of games:

- because most of those times, we're at actually leading the match. Not sure if a lot of people here actually understand that little fact...

I’d argue the reason we are playing boring defensive football is because most of our starting 11 are defenders or defensive minded players. 

[rass]

5 minutes ago, rayv36 said:

I’d argue the reason we are playing boring defensive football is because most of our starting 11 are defenders or defensive minded players. 

Result aside, do you think we played boring defensive football in the second half today when we were behind?

[rayv36]

Just now, rass said:

Result aside, do you think we played boring defensive football in the second half today when we were behind?

It was lacking creativity & frustrating but not boring & defensive. 

[fensaddler]

4 minutes ago, rass said:

Result aside, do you think we played boring defensive football in the second half today when we were behind?

No we didn't, but we'd not looked up for it in the first half. We began playing too late, and without enough guile or impact, in a match which always looked and felt as if it wasn't going for us. 3

[Inchcolm]

11 minutes ago, rass said:

Result aside, do you think we played boring defensive football in the second half today when we were behind?

The only reason we attacked quicker in the second is because we were chasing the game and they were defending a lead. Our attacking stopped at the edge of their box, where we had no creativity or guile to beak them down. As I said at half time the only way we were going to score was a set piece or a stunning shot from distance. Just as you state Joyce will defend a lead so he has also to attack when the team is chasing a win.

Why can they not attack with pace all the time rather than this desire to win the possession stats. It is time he got it into his thick head only one stat counts and that is goals scored.

[rass]

11 minutes ago, rayv36 said:

It was lacking creativity & frustrating but not boring & defensive. 

Agreed. It definitely wasn't boring or defensive. But it definitely lack creativity or to be more precise, with players like Wales, Jamieson and Atkinson there, they don't have the players to carry off what they're thinking if doing.

I don't know how many times we drove forward through the middle and the winger or striker weren't in the correct position to receive. Or they tried playing these intricate 1-2s that didn't work, or just shit service when it did come from wide. Yep, frustrating.

[rass]

2 minutes ago, Inchcolm said:

The only reason we attacked quicker in the second is because we were chasing the game and they were defending a lead. Our attacking stopped at the edge of their box, where we had no creativity or guile to beak them down. As I said at half time the only way we were going to score was a set piece or a stunning shot from distance. Just as you state Joyce will defend a lead so he has also to attack when the team is chasing a win.

Why can they not attack with pace all the time rather than this desire to win the possession stats. It is time he got it into his thick head only one stat counts and that is goals scored.

Don't get me wrong, I certainly don't enjoy watching us play the way we do. I just state in here why we play the way we do. Like it or not, it has given us results.

But tonight was just awful. Whether we didn't respect them or just struggled with the humidity, we were just way off early and we were made to play. There was actually some excitement watching us play from behind and it would be nice to see that throughout the whole game, but their second and the Pain near goal also remind us why it isn't always the best idea. As always with these things, there needs to be a balance.