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Round 7: No Bruno V Remember Robbie Fowler @ NIB stadium 8/12 10pm


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4 hours ago, jw1739 said:

I can't understand the anti-Baccus sentiment on here. Has the Forum found its new whipping boy (along with Wales)? Griffiths has done absolutely nothing with the minutes he's had so far.

The way Joyce digs in his heels I doubt we'll see Bruno. I don't know who should come in for Vidosic, but someone should - he's nothing like he was earlier in the season.

My thoughts aren’t that baccus is shit I just feel we are shit at defending set pieces and would like Griffiths around the defence in that sense it’s more a pro Griff over an anti Baccus 

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40 minutes ago, n i k o said:

Yeh I noticed that as well but a little odd that he's not mentioned in the list for the 'INS'. Take it as being as being a mistake that's been added. Although the club does have track record of simply omitting players without a heads up. 

I suspect that he is injury-free but not actually fit enough to warrant inclusion. We know how much emphasis WJ places on fitness. 

 

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1 hour ago, Afif Adam said:

Transfer window is gonna be interesting but I bet we’ll release more than we sign, as we always do 

From memory I don't think you can just replace a Marquee midseason. A fee have left over the years but I can't remember a midseason new marquee signing. 

So my fear is that like previous seasons Bruno walks and no one comes in. We again finish a season without our full quotas of visa/marquee playing. 

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Warren Joyce has left Bruno Fornaroli out of his Melbourne City squad for a third week

Bruno Fornaroli’s stay outside the Melbourne City first team will extend to a third week, growing the possibility that the A-League goalscoring sensation has played his last match for the club.

Coach Warren Joyce has again cited a lack of commitment in training for not selecting the Uruguayan for Saturday night’s match against league leaders Perth.

“I am disappointed,” he said.

“I’ve talked a lot about commitment.

“You see how committed the owners are to being successful and how committed they are to producing football that can win over a sustained period. They’ve got a commitment to being successful in Australia.

“All the staff that work for this football club are committed to doing the very best … you want all the players to be committed to the cause.

“All the players know what commitment is required here, Bruno is no different. You can take a horse to water but you can’t make it drink.”

Fornaroli’s exile last week from a home match with Newcastle went down terribly with fans but not with the team, which claimed a 3-0 win over the Jets. The Uruguayan wasn’t missed in the rout, with goals to Riley McGree, Luke Brattan and Lachlan Wales.

City are likely to find the going tougher against the league leaders away from home, but that hasn’t changed Joyce’s stance after a week of training.

“Nobody can stop players showing desire and intent,” he said.

“I’ve got to be able to look in every player’s face and they’ve got to believe the things I say will actually happen.

“It’s an easy decision for me to make … you can either choose to make the wrong decision because its easier on me or a right decision and it’s hard on me.”

 

 

The club is going out of its way to make it look like Bruno is the bad guy

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14 minutes ago, rayv36 said:

“You see how committed the owners are to being successful and how committed they are to producing football that can win over a sustained period. They’ve got a commitment to being successful in Australia.

“All the staff that work for this football club are committed to doing the very best … you want all the players to be committed to the cause.

Hahaha. We've yet to see anything out of that "commitment" except blunders and upheaval and we're into season 5. What a fucking joke.

27 minutes ago, Jovan said:

From memory I don't think you can just replace a Marquee midseason. A fee have left over the years but I can't remember a midseason new marquee signing. 

So my fear is that like previous seasons Bruno walks and no one comes in. We again finish a season without our full quotas of visa/marquee playing. 

All marquees have to be approved by FFA. And, as usual, we have only three of our five visa players playing this week.

Club is an utter shambles.

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20 minutes ago, rayv36 said:

 

“I’ve talked a lot about commitment.

“You see how committed the owners are to being successful and how committed they are to producing football that can win over a sustained period. They’ve got a commitment to being successful in Australia.

“All the staff that work for this football club are committed to doing the very best … you want all the players to be committed to the cause.

“All the players know what commitment is required here, Bruno is no different. You can take a horse to water but you can’t make it drink.”

Nobody can stop players showing desire and intent,” he said.

“I’ve got to be able to look in every player’s face and they’ve got to believe the things I say will actually happen.

“It’s an easy decision for me to make … you can either choose to make the wrong decision because its easier on me or a right decision and it’s hard on me.”

 

Yes. He does talk about commitment a lot. That's fine, I'm sure we're all for that. But in the parts above underlined in bold it seems to be the crux of the problem. Bruno does not believe in the things Joyce says. He does not believe that whatever Joyce is implementing will benefit him or the team. And so far he's been right. Bruno has struggled under his system. It doesn't work for him. He's grown frustrated.  And Joyce insisting that players have 'got to beleive' is not how it works. Not when you're dealing with your bigger stars. You can expect a Lauchie Wales to say yes for everything Joyce has to say but players like Bruno, Kilkenny, Brattan etc. have to be convinced. And if you don't convince them you'll lose them. 

His last comment in that article sums it up. Joyce's way. Or no way. In my experience working with top athletes in another sport you can have that attitude with younger players. But you can't have that attitude with experienced players because they'll tell you to fuck off. You need to be firm and a strong leader but you also need to gain their respect. You can't expect it will simply come as part of being a dictatorial manager. 

 

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3 minutes ago, n i k o said:

Yes. He does talk about commitment a lot. That's fine, I'm sure we're all for that. But in the parts above underlined in bold it seems to be the crux of the problem. Bruno does not believe in the things Joyce says. He does not believe that whatever Joyce is implementing will benefit him or the team. And so far he's been right. Bruno has struggled under his system. It doesn't work for him. He's grown frustrated.  And Joyce insisting that players have 'got to beleive' is not how it works. Not when you're dealing with your bigger stars. You can expect a Lauchie Wales to say yes for everything Joyce has to say but players like Bruno, Kilkenny, Brattan etc. have to be convinced. And if you don't convince them you'll lose them. 

His last comment in that article sums it up. Joyce's way. Or no way. In my experience working with top athletes in another sport you can have that attitude with younger players. But you can't have that attitude with experienced players because they'll tell you to fuck off. You need to be firm and a strong leader but you also need to gain their respect. You can't expect it will simply come as part of being a dictatorial manager. 

The situation is now in the realms of the absurd.

I predict that we will lose:
- Bruno as soon as he can find another club;
- Caceres as soon as his wife finishes her commitment with City Women;
- O'Halloran as soon as he can find another club.

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20 minutes ago, Afif Adam said:

Wait so if we win this, will this Bruno talk be resolved...or will the forum still give wazza sht 

 

I change my stance, I’m with Wazza...bite me

Lol I'll bite. I'd like to know what Wazza has done in the past week to prove he can deliver us a championship that has made you change your stance? 

Edited by n i k o
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Whilst not defending Joyce here or the even making judgement on the reason for the fallout to begin with, its pretty damn clear that Bruno hasn't covered himself in glory in the past three weeks. Unless you think Joyce is holding a grudge and keeping him out irrespective, although I've seen absolutely nothing in his time that makes me think that's the case. Joyce has a lot of flaws and his hard line attitude clealry upsets a few, but the evidence has shown him to be very responsive when the player puts the effort in to get back into the side.

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I am starting to accept that the relationship between player and coach is irrevocable.  

Joyce keeps saying that he is not selecting Bruno on the basis of his commitment at training ... so that opens a door if Bruno really wanted to get back into the team, he would just commit to the gaffer and the playing group and put in the effort to earn a spot back in the team.

It is looking more likely that Bruno has seemingly placed himself in cotton wool, with a move away from the club already locked in for January.  

Edited by Torn Asunder
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3 hours ago, Afif Adam said:

Good to know that MOH is weeks off from returning, just in time for the derby 

+ the fact that the club refrains from mentioning Bruno is ridiculous , we deserve more than this ...

He will not play in the Derby.  Joyce prefers Baccus He will return the week Joyce has the ability to play both. Instead of getting game time with the A team, he will  be given games with the  Y team. You  will not see him before January.

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15 minutes ago, Torn Asunder said:

I am starting to accept that the relationship between player and coach is irrevocable.  

Joyce keeps saying that he is not selecting Bruno on the basis of his commitment at training ... so that opens a door if Bruno really wanted to get back into the team, he would just commit to the gaffer and the playing group and put in the effort to earn a spot back in the team.

It is looking more likely that Bruno has seemingly placed himself in cotton wool, with a move away from the club already locked in for January.  

IIRC it's taken Joyce quite some time to be explicit about a "lack of commitment."

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50 minutes ago, n i k o said:

Lol I'll bite. I'd like to know what Wazza has done in the past week to prove he can deliver us a championship that has made you change your stance? 

I was referring to Fornaroli being dropped out of the squad not Wazza’s ability to deliver us a championship, I feel there is an unjust and an over exaggeration on why & how he is being dropped ...we asked for it, we knew that Wazza is a hard nut from day 1 and we knew  that he’s capable of making controversial decisions, so when Joyce drops our marquee striker we protest ? Yeah no , should be mad that we haven’t received a clear explanation? 100%

But maybe it’s not Joyce’s fault maybe there’s a clause at hand where decisions are being kept between club player and coach, until all parties come to a conclusion 

 

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2 hours ago, jw1739 said:

IIRC it's taken Joyce quite some time to be explicit about a "lack of commitment."

Yep, over 2 weeks. And even now he is still is being vague.

Lack of commitment to what? To training? To his team mates? To the coach? To the club?

it sounds like “lack of commitment” is the best non-specific red herring they could come up with.

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7 hours ago, jw1739 said:

The situation is now in the realms of the absurd.

I predict that we will lose:
- Bruno as soon as he can find another club;
- Caceres as soon as his wife finishes her commitment with City Women;
- O'Halloran as soon as he can find another club.

The Scottish paper today(Scottish Sun)

Former Rangers forward Michael O'Halloran hopes to make his Melbourne City debut in their derby with Melbourne Victory on 22 December after being kept out of action by a hamstring injury picked up ahead of the A-League season. Michael O’Halloran is eager to finally kickstart his Aussie dream - in a derby clash a week before the Old Firm game. Former Rangers attacker O’Halloran has just less than an hour of action since his move to Melbourne City in the A-League. A horror hamstring injury on the eve of the new season in October has kept the 27-year-old on the sidelines this term. But O’Halloran has now pencilled in the meeting with close rivals and reigning champs Melbourne Victory on December 22 for a long-awaited comeback. The former St Johnstone star said:

“The derby is my target and hopefully I can get myself fit for that.

“I’ve never had a substantial injury that’s kept me out for more than a week or two so it is hard.

“I’ve worked hard and worked well trying to get back to full fitness and I’m ahead of schedule so fingers crossed.

“I keep up with the games back home and watch as much of it as I can. I do miss the competitiveness of it.

“The SPFL is a good league with a lot of good players and I do see myself coming back eventually.

“I have a lot of time for St Johnstone and always look to see how they’re doing.

“I’ve got a lot of friends there as well but you never know where football could take you.

“But I’m focused on what’s now for me and what’s now is Melbourne City.

“I’m 27 now so I’m reaching my peak years in football and hopefully I can get playing again on a Saturday. I’m working hard towards that.”

Apart from the injury setback, O’Halloran reckons he made the right decision to head Down Under earlier in the year.

He added: “I’ve got a few cousins out here and they’ve been a massive help for me in terms of settling in and getting around places.

“It’s a big city and a really nice city. There’s a lot happening and a lot going on.

“It’s really close to the beach as well which is good. Coming over on your own is hard but it’s good having family here and they’ve shown me a lot of really nice places.”

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/3585059/rangers-michael-ohalloran-premiership-scotland-melbourne-city/

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1 minute ago, n i k o said:

Athos is a dickhead. Anyone that knows this team would know that that 'stat' is bullshit and has no significance on Bruno.

Those are the stats Joyce likes to see!!!!

Here's another stat for you Warren; Did you know that 90% of the fanbase thinks you are a dickhead and wants you gone? 

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12 minutes ago, Harrison said:

If we start winning matches of football, this 'rift' will look like the result of a principled stand of a tough manager who is helping to build a strong, committed culture. 

If we start losing matches of football, this 'rift' will look like the result of a stubborn stand of a petulant manager who can't accept criticism and doesn't know how to manage personalities. 

Winning changes everything. 

I find it interesting that there was no hint of this issue until after the match against Wellington, in which Bruno got his first league goal of the season.

Jamieson (club captain) only a few days ago is on record that Fornaroli is at every training session, smiling as ever. No hint there of anything amiss.

IMO what counts against Joyce is what happened with Kilkenny. Joyce has form in behaving in this way.

IMO what counts against the club is its blatant censorship of the images shown on the big screen at the Newcastle match, trying to pretend that Fornaroli wasn't there. If the issue was only a disagreement over training, why would you do that?

Circumstantial though it may be, IMO the evidence is that it is the club that has manufactured this issue, and is manipulating it to paint Bruno as being in the wrong. It is not clear yet as to what its motive is, but I suspect they want to see Bruno leave the club for financial reasons.

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1 hour ago, jw1739 said:

I find it interesting that there was no hint of this issue until after the match against Wellington, in which Bruno got his first league goal of the season.

Jamieson (club captain) only a few days ago is on record that Fornaroli is at every training session, smiling as ever. No hint there of anything amiss.

IMO what counts against Joyce is what happened with Kilkenny. Joyce has form in behaving in this way.

IMO what counts against the club is its blatant censorship of the images shown on the big screen at the Newcastle match, trying to pretend that Fornaroli wasn't there. If the issue was only a disagreement over training, why would you do that?

Circumstantial though it may be, IMO the evidence is that it is the club that has manufactured this issue, and is manipulating it to paint Bruno as being in the wrong. It is not clear yet as to what its motive is, but I suspect they want to see Bruno leave the club for financial reasons.

TBH I have thought for a while that they have had someone else lined up...

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9 minutes ago, playmaker said:

 

Oil price has dropped.

You maybe on to something.

LOL - CFG only limit to spending on our squads is that the one the A-League puts on them, otherwise they would spend twice or thrice as much on us as to them its three times nothing. Lets remember Melbourne Heart was brought by CFG for twice what they paid for Scott Sinclair who is not even a automatic starter right at the moment at Celtic for SPL games.

They have better Marquee/Get around the Rules Striker coming our way with Bruno going out. 

Edit: And before some throws the A-League Salary Cap Rule book at me, we have been shown time after time there is always away around the rules if the FFA can see the benefits of a certain player being in the League.

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12 minutes ago, cadete said:

CFG only limit to spending on our squads is that the one the A-League puts on them, otherwise they would spend twice or thrice as much on us

Not according to Marwood.

I posted up a few articles in the CFG thread that states otherwise.

Return On Inveatment remember!

Basically I think they have been listening to Whitney Houston too much.

 

 

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23 hours ago, Harrison said:

If we start winning matches of football, this 'rift' will look like the result of a principled stand of a tough manager who is helping to build a strong, committed culture. 

If we start losing matches of football, this 'rift' will look like the result of a stubborn stand of a petulant manager who can't accept criticism and doesn't know how to manage personalities. 

Winning changes everything. 

Never a true word spoken.

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2 hours ago, citypool said:

Perth haven’t been that great the past two weeks 

That's why I expect a routine 2-0 win for them. Our record there is W1 D1 L8.

What's more important though is our performance, will it be yet another listless aimless limp showing where we are knocked off every ball, lose the second balls, turnover repeatedly in midfield and ponderously move the ball forward? Will we have any shots on target? Will Wazza use any subs? If so, will he take off an attacker for another defender when we are chasing the game?

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