Round 6: City V Newcastle Plane @ "Lucky you're with AAMI" park 7pm

[moops]

Just now, Jovan said:

Have we upgraded? 

I would take Kilkenny and Brandan over any existing like positioned players we have now.

And Bruno and Brattan won't be upgraded. 

yeah questions need to be asked.

[cadete]

Once again an Outsider Perspective....

Bruno has been a great player for us but he also had our front third setup to utilize his ability, it was an okay plan and brought us some wins but as soon as he begins to drop off its not the best plan. And lets be honest it would appear that he has lost some pace and we are seeing a lot more of him with his back to the ball than in prior Seasons.

Di Canio was a freak at Wednesday and West Ham... but there was reason he played for these clubs in his prime it was because they would select their side around his madness. He had the talent and skill to play at United but not to have United completely focus themselves around his presence.

[playmaker]

7 minutes ago, moops said:

I liked what he did last night, it's fine if you disagree, but he is not the kind of player to hold up the ball, he is a poacher like Maclaren, the question is can Joyce come up with a game plan.

He is not a poacher, he is a speed bunny who only scored because the opposition didnt give a crap about defending. But in bustle of creating an opportunity on goal in traffic he did nothing of the sort, and that's where a quality ST will. You really need to watch the game again.

As for the game itself it was a good result, however it was all set up with the early goal and Brattan consolidating with a great strike from outside the box.

In between all that Newcastle dominated play many times throughout the game, and IF O'Donovan was playing it would have been different in my view as NC had limited targets going forward and still managed some great plays.

I thought Vidosic had a very poor game given the space NC were giving in behind, but it's really a luxury we were given as a team because of the early goal and really we should have exploited the space better.

We need a target forward of quality and regardless of the Bruno issue, he should be played for the benefit of the team.

If Wales plays ST the next 3 games we are gone.

 

[moops]

like I have said, there is a massive gap between NPL and HAL, if we have a promising youngster why don't we loan the lad out to the Indonesian league or somewhere like Vietnam or Thailand, where they pay more for their players than we do?

[Dylan]

10 minutes ago, Jovan said:

Have we upgraded? 

I would take Kilkenny and Brandan over any existing like positioned players we have now.

And Bruno and Brattan won't be upgraded. 

Replacing a striker who scores goals, with one that doesn't. Profit.

[moops]

5 minutes ago, playmaker said:

He is not a poacher, he is a speed bunny who only scored because the opposition didnt give a crap about defending. But in bustle of creating an opportunity on goal in traffic he did nothing of the sort, and that's where a quality ST will. You really need to watch the game again.

As for the game itself it was a good result, however it was all set up with the early goal and Brattan consolidating with a great strike from outside the box.

In between all that Newcastle dominated play many times throughout the game, and IF O'Donovan was playing it would have been different in my view as NC had limited targets going forward and still managed some great plays.

I thought Vidosic had a very poor game given the space NC were giving in behind, but it's really a luxury we were given as a team because of the early goal and really we should have exploited the space better.

We need a target forward of quality and regardless of the Bruno issue, he should be played for the benefit of the team.

If Wales plays ST the next 3 games we are gone.

 

The very definition of a poacher.....

We need to have a game plan regardless of who is striker, or tailored to them.

 

[n i k o]

7 minutes ago, playmaker said:

He is not a poacher, he is a speed bunny who only scored because the opposition didnt give a crap about defending. But in bustle of creating an opportunity on goal in traffic he did nothing of the sort, and that's where a quality ST will. You really need to watch the game again.

As for the game itself it was a good result, however it was all set up with the early goal and Brattan consolidating with a great strike from outside the box.

In between all that Newcastle dominated play many times throughout the game, and IF O'Donovan was playing it would have been different in my view as NC had limited targets going forward and still managed some great plays.

I thought Vidosic had a very poor game given the space NC were giving in behind, but it's really a luxury we were given as a team because of the early goal and really we should have exploited the space better.

We need a target forward of quality and regardless of the Bruno issue, he should be played for the benefit of the team.

If Wales plays ST the next 3 games we are gone.

 

I don't think it's fair at all to be this harsh on a player of Wales CV. I think he's performing better than anyone would have expected him to considering this and I'm grateful we have one player that doesn't mind attacking, even if it comes with errors at times. This argument needs to be directed at the manager. 

[Torn Asunder]

Wales = future Socceroo

[n i k o]

31 minutes ago, cadete said:

Because since the day MCFC was born the team has always needed to improve its performances in this period, its not like these decisions are being made to a side that has looked a Title Winner or even performed well enough for the expectations of it's fans.

Personally, I would like to see a Manager making changes than doing nothing considering the above.

Second season in cadete, I'm wondering why a manager should have to make such changes and decisions if he has the skill set and know how to select a title winning squad....?

[Afif Adam]

3 minutes ago, Torn Asunder said:

Wales = future Socceroo

Wouldn’t be surprised tbh

[n i k o]

42 minutes ago, moops said:

So players before club in your view?

 

It was club, manager and player, in that order. Now questions arise about the manager due to his track record at the club. The bigger issue is the people further up in the club that are making wrong decisions and putting people in positions that can't get the job done. Pierce, Marwood and Munn are the people that should be questioned for half a decade of underachieving. 

Edited December 3, 2018 by n i k o

[moops]

1 minute ago, n i k o said:

It was club, manager and player, in that order. Now questions arise about the manager due to his track record at the club. The bigger issue is the people further up in the club that are wrong decisions and putting people in positions that can't get the job done. Pierce, Marwood and Munn are the people that should be questioned for half a decade of underachieving. 

Shit runs downhill

[cadete]

20 minutes ago, n i k o said:

Second season in cadete, I'm wondering why a manager should have to make such changes and decisions if he has the skill set and know how to select a title winning squad....?

Look the guy maybe as clueless as some here think, however considering the club has achieved nothing and the restrictions of the A-League to deal with (its a dumb system that sees all the Australian players drift around the league from club to clubs in their careers) it was always going to take a new Coach longer than a Season to get results.

He has either started from scratch or started from IMO behind when it comes to the club's mentality, also some major decisions can only be made during a season as its only in the Season Proper that you can get a real gage on what still works. Also most Club Great Strikers have usually lost their spot in a side's during the course of a Season, this happened with almost all the big strikers at Liverpool throughout all their years of dominance. 

Edited December 3, 2018 by cadete

[HeartOfCity]

People have short memories, what is about the weekend that people think we are on the way. Had an absolute peach of a goal by Brattan (which might not happen again for us this year) Riley Magree's goal whilst superb was let happen by absolute shizen defending and Lauchy got onto a ball over the top. 

So from my way of thinking is that it still takes something special to score, there doesnt look to be any structure and clear attacking flow around the box and we really need to be scoring alot easier than those great goals to be in any game. 

Still #JOYCEOUT until i am totally proven wrong, its almost like people got there fix of dopamine and forgot the past. 

Joyce maybe all about correcting culture which is great if it is still an issue, but you still have to be able to coach and get results and not just hope for shit opposition every week.

 

[playmaker]

1 hour ago, n i k o said:

I don't think it's fair at all to be this harsh on a player of Wales CV.

Not being harsh on the kid, I am being harsh on Wazza. In the next few games with some hard bodies on him I am afraid of him being smashed. And also, we have Bruno who should be playing that position and offers better in all aspects of the game.

 

46 minutes ago, cadete said:

Look the guy maybe as clueless as some here thin

No so much as a youth/development coach, but what has he really achieved?

What scares me the most is if he leaves at the end of this season, where does this leave us?

So far, getting rid of quality players and not replacing them with better players?

No big name players and not valuing quality players even though work-rate maybe less than optimal?

Pushing through youth for potential trading rather than prioritising experience and hardness to win games.

And all the other valid concerns people have observed.

And when the dust settles and Wazza is gone then how will the team be left?

I will tell you now, if he continues down this path and we have no success this season, and built his own little team his way, then we are left with an unsuccessful side, with the same idiots in charge, no experienced leaders in the playing group, no notable players with loyalty to carry on, and a waste of 2 years.

Start again and repeat in 19/20 season.

It's not right and not how a club is built, just look across town and notice a monster of a squad being assembled.

 

Edited December 3, 2018 by playmaker

[jw1739]

5 minutes ago, HeartOfCity said:

People have short memories, what is about the weekend that people think we are on the way.

1. People do have short memories.
2. I don't think I've read that anyone on here believes that "we are on the way." Some people enjoyed the match and win more than others, but in general pretty well everyone thinks there are issues with the way the club handled last week, how Joyce is managing, don't like the way that Bruno seems to be being treated, and have the usual varying opinions on individual players.

[HeartOfCity]

12 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

1. People do have short memories.
2. I don't think I've read that anyone on here believes that "we are on the way." Some people enjoyed the match and win more than others, but in general pretty well everyone thinks there are issues with the way the club handled last week, how Joyce is managing, don't like the way that Bruno seems to be being treated, and have the usual varying opinions on individual players.

No your probably right about people on here, i had only seen comments on social media. It just boiled my blood enough to bring it up on here. 

[rass]

8 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

1. People do have short memories.
2. I don't think I've read that anyone on here believes that "we are on the way." Some people enjoyed the match and win more than others, but in general pretty well everyone thinks there are issues with the way the club handled last week, how Joyce is managing, don't like the way that Bruno seems to be being treated, and have the usual varying opinions on individual players.

Exactly.

No one has said our issues are fixed. If any of you stopped to read the actual posts, you'd see that we're all pretty much in agreement that things are not OK at the moment. 

But, is it any fukn crime to actually comment on a good result and entertaining game when it happens? Sorry if it doesn't suit the 'all doom and gloom mood' you apparently need to have on this forum.

 

 

[JMSTEP123]

5 hours ago, moops said:

Remember a few weeks ago when people wanted Bruno out?

If he is being a bad influence or not performing then so be it, I have no quibbles with him being out IMHO and if it's part of the plan to fix our club culture all the better.

The problem is we have had 2 good performances, one against the victards and last nights game, other than that the football has been insipid. What got me was Joyces' post match comments when he said he thought we had played better in earlier games and we had just taken our chances in this one! I thought we looked a million times better in this game, better off the ball movement and intensity.

That is my problem with Joyce, the brand of football he is promoting hasn't been effective and he is blind to the fact.

Credit though to the lads last night, there were some cracking goals scored.

Those comments were eyebrow raising. What a joker

[moops]

2 hours ago, Jovan said:

You know what really bites my crank is that this just a full replay on last season. 

He has had a good 3 months to assess and develop his squad. Then for all differing reasons come January 3 or 4 senior players get moved on. And its happening again. WTF would you move on Bruno Brattan and Caceres in January. Okay this is all complete speculation but if it eventuates and they are replaced by Djite Baccus and who knows no one in their right mind would consider this as a positive. 

I'm still pissed about Kilkenny and Brandan getting axed and if Bruno and Brattan follow will really get me wound up. 

 

Your'e pissed about Brandan? This isn't ALF, we are competing against the world ffs.

If Brattan goes, I will be pissed.

Edited December 3, 2018 by moops

[moops]

48 minutes ago, JMSTEP123 said:

Those comments were eyebrow raising. What a joker

What is so comedic?

[HeartOfCity]

52 minutes ago, rass said:

Exactly.

No one has said our issues are fixed. If any of you stopped to read the actual posts, you'd see that we're all pretty much in agreement that things are not OK at the moment. 

But, is it any fukn crime to actually comment on a good result and entertaining game when it happens? Sorry if it doesn't suit the 'all doom and gloom mood' you apparently need to have on this forum.

 

 

Not sure its all doom and gloom, but we need to have some perspective of the situation. Just like Arzarni coming into the team last year and papering over cracks, my word were we dour until he came in. And i would even think Joyce is lucky that Arzarni did so well and pretty much dragged us to 3rd last year.

3 hours ago, Jovan said:

You know what really bites my crank is that this just a full replay on last season. 

He has had a good 3 months to assess and develop his squad. Then for all differing reasons come January 3 or 4 senior players get moved on. And its happening again. WTF would you move on Bruno Brattan and Caceres in January. Okay this is all complete speculation but if it eventuates and they are replaced by Djite Baccus and who knows no one in their right mind would consider this as a positive. 

I'm still pissed about Kilkenny and Brandan getting axed and if Bruno and Brattan follow will really get me wound up. 

 

Ha ha ha ha FMD love it.

[Inchcolm]

Managers are judged by results just as players are judged by their performances. Beaten by Brisbane no Bruno all doom and gloom. Win against Newcastle and things are looking up. As I said managers are judged on results I disagreed with his team selection but he comes out on top as the team won. The Club will give him to the end of season as that will be where he has asked to be judged. However in my opinion at the end of the month the league ladder will show just how far of the pace we are.

Will he have a clean out in January again where we sit in the race for Asian cup places will determine that? The other question is will the Club give him the authority to sign players who will be here next year if they plan not to renew his contract.

[moops]

2 minutes ago, Inchcolm said:

Managers are judged by results just as players are judged by their performances. Beaten by Brisbane no Bruno all doom and gloom. Win against Newcastle and things are looking up. As I said managers are judged on results I disagreed with his team selection but he comes out on top as the team won. The Club will give him to the end of season as that will be where he has asked to be judged. However in my opinion at the end of the month the league ladder will show just how far of the pace we are.

Will he have a clean out in January again where we sit in the race for Asian cup places will determine that? The other question is will the Club give him the authority to sign players who will be here next year if they plan not to renew his contract.

As fans we need to judge the way we play.

[JMSTEP123]

1 hour ago, moops said:

What is so comedic?

That Joyce made the point in games prior he was more happy with the performance than lastnights effort. The only difference being the goals.

Which is consistent with what he has said weeks prior - good games without goals. I beg to differ, but hey.

54 minutes ago, Inchcolm said:

Managers are judged by results just as players are judged by their performances. Beaten by Brisbane no Bruno all doom and gloom. Win against Newcastle and things are looking up. As I said managers are judged on results I disagreed with his team selection but he comes out on top as the team won. The Club will give him to the end of season as that will be where he has asked to be judged. However in my opinion at the end of the month the league ladder will show just how far of the pace we are.

Will he have a clean out in January again where we sit in the race for Asian cup places will determine that? The other question is will the Club give him the authority to sign players who will be here next year if they plan not to renew his contract.

So end of Dec to gauge where we are at?

[jw1739]

3 minutes ago, JMSTEP123 said:

That Joyce made the point in games prior he was more happy with the performance than lastnights effort. The only difference being the goals.

Which is consistent with what he has said weeks prior - good games without goals. I beg to differ, but hey.

So end of Dec to gauge where we are at?

We will only be 1/3 of the way into the season by end of December. CFG (Marwood) won't make up his mind about Joyce until later than that. This is a lopsided season - we have 7 matches in January!

[moops]

11 minutes ago, JMSTEP123 said:

That Joyce made the point in games prior he was more happy with the performance than lastnights effort. The only difference being the goals.

Which is consistent with what he has said weeks prior - good games without goals. I beg to differ, but hey.

So end of Dec to gauge where we are at?

All good, 

[belaguttman]

8 hours ago, moops said:

And that is down to his coaching and brand of football he wants us to play, nothing to do with Bruno.

No, the coaching is the same every week. It looks, from the games played this season, that sometimes we make the most of our chances and have some luck defending, then we'll win. Most weeks, we create very little and our conversion rate is poor. We remain porous at the back, sometimes we have good luck and sometimes we have bad luck, we are yet to have a game where the opposition has few chances. 

8 hours ago, rass said:

 

In regards to the style, I don't think it's that bad. For mine, the issue is that we're trying to play a style that's probably mandated by CFG. Sure, that works for Man City. They play some beautiful football.

.... But we're not Man City and we have to operate in a salary capped league, so we just don't have the cattle to play that patient game where any player on the pitch has the ability to produce that one piece of magic to unlock defences.

So unfortunately, it just won't work for us. Sure we can string a few passes together and last night there were a couple of lovely examples later in the game where it happened. But eventually, we will lose control and then we're vulnerable.

1

Man City play forward balls where we play square or back

Man City have player movement off the ball that creates passing options and overloads, we don't

Man City are quick in attacking and defensive transition, we aren't.

The problem is, we don't play the Man City way

[belaguttman]

6 hours ago, cadete said:

Once again an Outsider Perspective....

Bruno has been a great player for us but he also had our front third setup to utilize his ability, it was an okay plan and brought us some wins but as soon as he begins to drop off its not the best plan. And lets be honest it would appear that he has lost some pace and we are seeing a lot more of him with his back to the ball than in prior Seasons.

Di Canio was a freak at Wednesday and West Ham... but there was reason he played for these clubs in his prime it was because they would select their side around his madness. He had the talent and skill to play at United but not to have United completely focus themselves around his presence.

He's having to come into midfield to receive the ball this season, he's dangerous when he receives the ball with his back to goal inside the box, not 30m upfield

[playmaker]

5 minutes ago, belaguttman said:

He's having to come into midfield to receive the ball this season, he's dangerous when he receives the ball with his back to goal inside the box, not 30m upfield

It's amazing how he plays Wales on the defensive line to get behind but continually plays Bruno up the field isn't it.

Something isn't right and it's understandable that Bruno isn't happy.

Wazza doing it on purpose perhaps? I hope not.

[belaguttman]

What Joyce really wants is a tall striker who can head goals when wingers cross into the box, we don't need a number 10 for his style, we don't need to be creative, we don't need players to hold up the ball, we just need speedy wingers that can cross the ball. We could play a CB in that central striking role. The problem is that our ball speed forward is so slow that by the time the ball arrives in our front third the play is too compressed for this system to work, and our tall striker will be double teamed

2 minutes ago, playmaker said:

It's amazing how he plays Wales on the defensive line to get behind but continually plays Bruno up the field isn't it.

Something isn't right and it's understandable that Bruno isn't happy.

Wazza doing it on purpose perhaps? I hope not.

Bruno was the hardest working player on the field under JVS and now he's suddenly fat and lazy?

[jw1739]

Ode to Melbourne City Football Club

Complaints from fans are never-ending -
About attacking and defending.
It's not forward balls we lack -
It's just we play them square, or back.
Nothing wrong with our transitions -
It's just we're in the wrong positions.
Win, lose, or draw - you can be sure -
Joyce, Petrillo, even Munn, will feel the axe before we're done.

[belaguttman]

Melbourne City fans are patient and tough, but

Even they say that nine seasons of mediocrity is enough

 

[wombegongal]

27 minutes ago, playmaker said:

It's amazing how he plays Wales on the defensive line to get behind but continually plays Bruno up the field isn't it.

Something isn't right and it's understandable that Bruno isn't happy.

Wazza doing it on purpose perhaps? I hope not.

Mate, Wales is way quicker than Bruno and can look to be played in behind. Bruno would struggle to win the 100 m sprint at his kids primary school aths carnival. Now clealry Bruno is the better player but at least recognise they are different.

 

I'm also concerned about how we are playing. But I don't want to see players run the dressing room. If that means booting some players out so be it. End of the day the coach is judged on how his side plays and he will be.

 

As for how it leaves the club, taking big contracts off the books and having short term replacements to seasons end means that the next coach will have more room to move on signing players.

 

It might however mean another season of pain.

[playmaker]

3 minutes ago, wombegongal said:

Mate, Wales is way quicker than Bruno and can look to be played in behind. Bruno would struggle to win the 100 m sprint at his kids primary school aths carnival. Now clealry Bruno is the better player but at least recognise they are different.

With respect, he doesn't have to win a 100m sprint, but what he has always done well when playing on the defender's toes is get in behind or trap the ball. You hear this discussion over and over and to suggest a player needs to give outstanding pace to play that way is wrong.

Bruno is quick and dexterous enough to turn defender's around, fend them off and score. He is a good technical player and is very smart.

13 minutes ago, wombegongal said:

It might however mean another season of pain.

Not good enough, all this crap should have been sorted in the off season and we should have stability this season, instead we are in this shambolic position again with our key player who should be one of the core players that teams are built around.

Aren't you sick of this crap year after year?

[johnno cpfc]

I certainly am and so is my wife she describes our play as she says it's more exciting watching paint dry than watching city play and i agree.

 

[jw1739]

On 03/12/2018 at 10:50 PM, playmaker said:

Not good enough, all this crap should have been sorted in the off season and we should have stability this season, instead we are in this shambolic position again with our key player who should be one of the core players that teams are built around.

Aren't you sick of this crap year after year?

Yes, this is another key point, isn't it. Of all the owners of A-League clubs we ought to be the most stable. With all the resources of CFG in the background, all the clubs in the CFG portfolio ought to be able to have competent managers, coaches and players in place every season,  not necessarily to win everything but at least be good enough to be very competitive in whatever competitions they are playing in. Instead we seem to be the very opposite, and our turnover of assistant coaches and players must be one of the highest in the league. Our record on visa and marquee players is also poor.

And yes, I am also sick of it. As someone says in the membership thread - what should be a joy is a nightmare.