A-League Expansion

[Dylan]

1 minute ago, jw1739 said:

It wouldn't be ideal because I don't think much of the PT links to get to Bundoora. IMO a stadium needs good PT links and adequate car parking - it's not one or the other. A strong point of the Team11 bid is the location of their proposed stadium, the weak point being that they haven't secured the money to build it.

AAMI is ideal for me from a PT point of view, but IMO is far too big for City's routine matches - empty seats just contribute to the feeling that the club isn't successful, whereas 6,000 still looks like a good crowd in a 12,000 capacity stadium.

I just dont think there is a suitable area with good PT access from every location in Melbourne. Its not how the PT of Melbourne was originally designed. 

If this suburban loop gets built (which will be 50 years away anyway) it would be a great solution but no point even considering it given the time frames we are talking.

 

[jw1739]

Just now, Dylan said:

I just dont think there is a suitable area with good PT access from every location in Melbourne. Its not how the PT of Melbourne was originally designed. 

If this suburban loop gets built (which will be 50 years away anyway) it would be a great solution but no point even considering it given the time frames we are talking.

There is Glenferrie, but I understand there's insurmountable NIMBY opposition to any further use of it. As I'm sure there would be to the use of any of the ex-footy grounds.

[Dylan]

7 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

There is Glenferrie, but I understand there's insurmountable NIMBY opposition to any further use of it. As I'm sure there would be to the use of any of the ex-footy grounds.

Well there is Vic Park also. That would be a great spot. I dont think any of the old AFL grounds would be feasable, unless we want to play in a round stadium. Planning minister would probably come over the top and block it due to lobbying.

A lot of the inner city would be very difficult id say . Ideal yes, but difficult. I cant even think of any disused  areas off the top of my head.  There is that old industrial place across from Fitzroy officeworks but thats it. 

Edited December 12, 2018 by Dylan

[jw1739]

35 minutes ago, Dylan said:

Well there is Vic Park also. That would be a great spot. I dont think any of the old AFL grounds would be feasable, unless we want to play in a round stadium. Planning minister would probably come over the top and block it due to lobbying.

A lot of the inner city would be very difficult id say . Ideal yes, but difficult. I cant even think of any disused  areas off the top of my head.  There is that old industrial place across from Fitzroy officeworks but thats it. 

There's derelict land in the west of course, but who wants City to become a western suburbs club? The reality is, I think, that it's either a 75-80% empty AAMI Park, or it's Bundoora with its lousy PT links. For the foreseeable future, it will be AAMI Park for us. But I can't help thinking that we're going to slip behind other clubs in this respect as the league expands.

Stadium costs in Australia annoy the hell out of me. Individual clubs just don't need top shelf stadiums, and IMO we should be looking to built modular stadiums at minimum cost. You do not need all the bells and whistles for something that is in use 13-25 times per year. Big matches, such as intra-city derbies can be played at the bigger venues, but routine matches don't need to be.

[mus-28]

Victory gobbled up most of the supporter base in the West, this is very left field as WMG had very little support on social media or from the footballing public. But knowing the FFA they probably offered the biggest license fee. 

Anyone whose interested in the location of the stadium it's 1160 Sayers Rd Tarneit. State Government will have to cough up for all the infrastructure links as currently its a paddock with nothing around it.

[Young Polak]

I’m just hoping this is just a soft troll by outsider journalists until the actual announcement in the afternoon 

[Dylan]

9 minutes ago, mus-28 said:

Victory gobbled up most of the supporter base in the West, this is very left field as WMG had very little support on social media or from the footballing public. But knowing the FFA they probably offered the biggest license fee. 

Anyone whose interested in the location of the stadium it's 1160 Sayers Rd Tarneit. State Government will have to cough up for all the infrastructure links as currently its a paddock with nothing around it.

All the more reason for us to gobble up the north.

I reckon the WMB got through because of who is behind it, Lou Stickka

Plus I remember these weird tweets from Football Journos praising the bid. They all looked copied and pasted from the same script.

 

[mus-28]

An hour drive to Geelong for 3 seasons for supporters, it's the same travel time by car to get to AAMI Park. They would've been better off using Knights stadium for all their games bar Melbourne derbies. This has disaster written all over it.

[Tony999]

WTF are FFA thinking? Oh well. I think better for City that WMG got it instead of Team 11. I think MV will be losing a lot more supporters than City will!

[rayv36]

6 minutes ago, Tony999 said:

WTF are FFA thinking? Oh well. I think better for City that WMG got it instead of Team 11. I think MV will be losing a lot more supporters than City will!

I feel another in or out thread coming...

[jw1739]

3 minutes ago, Tony999 said:

WTF are FFA thinking? Oh well. I think better for City that WMG got it instead of Team 11. I think MV will be losing a lot more supporters than City will!

Wouldn't be surprised if that was one of the factors that was part of the decision.  City's appeal has taken a big hit over Fornaroli/Joyce, and the prospect of taking away a portion if our fan-base is not something FFA want.

This is not the end for Team11, but it's clear that every club, not just bidders in the expansion process, needs to look at the stadium issue.

[n i k o]

19 minutes ago, mus-28 said:

Victory gobbled up most of the supporter base in the West, this is very left field as WMG had very little support on social media or from the footballing public. But knowing the FFA they probably offered the biggest license fee. 

Anyone whose interested in the location of the stadium it's 1160 Sayers Rd Tarneit. State Government will have to cough up for all the infrastructure links as currently its a paddock with nothing around it.

I read that FFA approved the bid because they don't need government subsidisation. Whereas team 11 required subsidisation for a 150 million dollar stadium.

[Tony999]

19 minutes ago, n i k o said:

I read that FFA approved the bid because they don't need government subsidisation. Whereas team 11 required subsidisation for a 150 million dollar stadium.

So where is their cash flow coming from?

Edited December 13, 2018 by Tony999

[Jimmy]

[n i k o]

16 minutes ago, Tony999 said:

So where is their cash flow coming from?

I don't know who the other investors are besides Lou Sticca  so I couldn't answer that

[bt50]

4 hours ago, HEARTinator said:

If Davutovic has it right then the bid wins on the back of having a stadium ready to be built. I’d say FFA will also outline the timetable  for another two teams which would give Team 11 time to organise the stadium deal with the state government.

This.

[Harrison]

4 minutes ago, bt50 said:

This.

BT what are your thoughts on the whole thing? 

[mus-28]

43 minutes ago, n i k o said:

I read that FFA approved the bid because they don't need government subsidisation. Whereas team 11 required subsidisation for a 150 million dollar stadium.

They need road and rail as well as power, water, gas to all be connected as it's currently paddocks on the outskirts.

[KSK_47]

For all the potential problems Western Melbourne has, one luxurious advantage they have is having us as a guide for what not to do to build a fan base

Edited December 13, 2018 by KSK_47

[Forever City]

Hopefully the new team will make city pull there finger out and start to treat there fans right. Amongst the fear they might lose fans to west Melbourne.

[n i k o]

25 minutes ago, mus-28 said:

They need road and rail as well as power, water, gas to all be connected as it's currently paddocks on the outskirts.

Of course. But the building of the actual stadium?? 

[mus-28]

I'd imagine the cost of all the infrastructure to facilitate a stadium will be quite substantial as well, it's a government contract. Quote, add 50%, add 50% more to be sure, submit tender.

[jw1739]

9 minutes ago, mus-28 said:

I'd imagine the cost of all the infrastructure to facilitate a stadium will be quite substantial as well, it's a government contract. Quote, add 50%, add 50% more to be sure, submit tender.

A government contract? IIRC Gallop said it would be the new club that owns the stadium.

[mus-28]

2 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

A government contract? IIRC Gallop said it would be the new club that owns the stadium.

I'm talking everything that leads to the stadium. Currently it's a paddock on the outskirts with a few dual lane roads and nothing else. It'll need a huge upgrade to be able to move people in and out, as well as connecting up all the utilities.

[Harrison]

Does the stadium and complex even get built? 

It's a lot of money on top of the money spent on the licensing fee. They'd want some pretty deep pockets.

[bt50]

1 hour ago, Harrison said:

BT what are your thoughts on the whole thing? 

Hard to know the specifics without seeing all the bid docs, but if the face value stuff is to be believed then Team 11 had the better bid, but was going to be seriously compromised in its opening few seasons by having to play at a below standard ground. It was also reliant on the state government to come to the party as far as stadia goes, so it was a somewhat riskier bid in comparison to WM.

Theyve got 10 months to get themselves sorted so it'll be a bit of a whirlwind, not particularly sure they'll land on their feet but hey they prob cant do any worse than CCM. Either way im excited for a bit of fresh content and and extra 3 Vic games a season.

If you're asking what I'm doing as far as being a fan goes, I'm rusted on with City, even if like everyone else im a little disinterested at the minute. IMO the 3rd team will bring quite a few back into the fold just on interest alone. I'm certainly not interested in going to Geelong rather than Melb to watch football, however once they have their stadium in Tarneit up and going i may entertain the idea of popping down the road to watch the odd neutral game here and there. Who knows, i'll prob hate them by then haha

9 minutes ago, Harrison said:

Does the stadium and complex even get built? 

It's a lot of money on top of the money spent on the licensing fee. They'd want some pretty deep pockets.

WM wouldnt have been awarded the licence if they couldnt clearly show how they were going to fund it all. I have faith the process has been done correctly tbh.

[thisphantomfortress]

[Harrison]

1 minute ago, bt50 said:

WM wouldnt have been awarded the licence if they couldnt clearly show how they were going to fund it all. I have faith the process has been done correctly tbh.

Agreed but circumstances can change quite quickly. It'll be interesting to watch it unfold.

 

[mus-28]

7 minutes ago, bt50 said:

WM wouldnt have been awarded the licence if they couldnt clearly show how they were going to fund it all. I have faith the process has been done correctly tbh.

This is the FFA we're talking about, they've fucked up a majority of decisions in the past. I'm betting they paid a bigger license fee, that probably got them over the line. This is the same group that were Victorian Patriots and were gonna build a stadium on the outskirts of Geelong and then disappeared only to re-emerge as WMG, I'm sceptical that someone has pockets that deep to blow money on something that will not get any significant return.

[Harrison]

1 minute ago, mus-28 said:

This is the FFA we're talking about, they've fucked up a majority of decisions in the past. I'm betting they paid a bigger license fee, that probably got them over the line. This is the same group that were Victorian Patriots and were gonna build a stadium on the outskirts of Geelong and then disappeared only to re-emerge as WMG, I'm sceptical that someone has pockets that deep to blow money on something that will not get any significant return.

Without wanting to put words into BT's mouth, I suspect he is placing his faith in Deloitte's processes rather than FFA's. 

But I largely agree with you. It's a lot of money for something with so many unknowns. 

[NuggetsMcGreggor]

2 hours ago, mus-28 said:

An hour drive to Geelong for 3 seasons for supporters, it's the same travel time by car to get to AAMI Park. They would've been better off using Knights stadium for all their games bar Melbourne derbies. This has disaster written all over it.

never again 

[SF33]

3 hours ago, mus-28 said:

Victory gobbled up most of the supporter base in the West, this is very left field as WMG had very little support on social media or from the footballing public. But knowing the FFA they probably offered the biggest license fee. 

Anyone whose interested in the location of the stadium it's 1160 Sayers Rd Tarneit. State Government will have to cough up for all the infrastructure links as currently its a paddock with nothing around it.

I think people have to look beyond that to the NBL and BBL. I like basketball and cricket and a poor performance from a chosen team in those sports doesn't leave me miserable, like a pathetic City effort. I've already got an AFL team that I care too much about; maybe I don't need to run the risk of a sporting result ruining my weekend for (basically) 52 weeks of the year.

I wonder if being a City member will ultimately be like playing sport in your twilight, when everyone tells you you're a long time retired and then for other reasons, you take a season off and don't miss it in the slightest. I think I've been to three City home games in two years (not coincidentally, my daughter was born the day after the Christmas derby loss in 2016) and, besides a bit more Ross the Boss, I don't feel the slightest itch. There's a tiny bit of guilt that I should keep my membership streak going, although I'm also tempted not to out of spite, due to the membership office continually calling me about it.

Melbourne's population has cracked 5 million. It can support nine AFL teams (not including Geelong) where 50,000 is the bare minimum of what can be accepted these days and Storm who have more than 20,000. How many memberships do Victory and City combine for? Less than 40,000? City's issues are the same as the A-League's: We need to consistently outperform Victory to become successful (because, if you wanted to sign up with an A-League club, would you go for the most popular and arguably the most successful team, which plays to big crowds at Docklands and packs AAMI, or would you pick the club that routinely gets home crowds of less than 8,000, is constantly finding new ways to shoot itself in the foot and, despite having boatloads of cash, has nothing better than an FFA cup to show for its time in the league?), but the A-League has the same pressure to outperform cricket and the vastly improving NBL for the spotlight? Because if you'r serious, it shouldn't be hard for Melbourne City (on paper at least) to sign up 20,000 members.

I see issues like the cavernous size of AAMI Park, but it's funny how that's only an issue when we're playing poorly. We'll probably never be as big as Victory, but you can easily aim for 12-15k at a home game and shut the top level if required. The club just needs to be successful and entertaining (well, successful at least) and while it's going to be interesting to see how a genuine GWM club goes (given the drastic difference in relative population centres between Melbourne and Sydney), it's going to be equally interesting to see where City is left, if the new mob flourishes.

Edited December 13, 2018 by SF33

[Nate]

Disappointed Team 11 and Canberra missed out, but I can also appreciate why Western Melbourne and the South-West/Macarthur bids got up. 

FFA needs a big win considering how badly North Queensland and Gold Coast failed and at the end of the day, they've gone for two safe options with minimal risk due to internally-sourced funding in massive Sydney and Melbourne markets which will satisfy Fox Sports and create more derbies. 

The thing I don't get is why Western Melbourne are entering first so soon - they haven't even begun stadium developments and playing away in a different city for the first two years seems counterproductive in attracting a strong core supporter group, especially considering the South-West/Macarthur bid already has an A-League standard stadium ready to go. 

Otherwise thank god the FFA has finally pulled their finger out, this league needed fresh additions a long time ago. Hopefully we get two more teams in the coming few years. 

[jw1739]

7 minutes ago, Nate said:

Disappointed Team 11 and Canberra missed out, but I can also appreciate why Western Melbourne and the South-West/Macarthur bids got up. 

FFA needs a big win considering how badly North Queensland and Gold Coast failed and at the end of the day, they've gone for two safe options with minimal risk due to internally-sourced funding in massive Sydney and Melbourne markets which will satisfy Fox Sports and create more derbies. 

The thing I don't get is why Western Melbourne are entering first so soon - they haven't even begun stadium developments and playing away in a different city for the first two years seems counterproductive in attracting a strong core supporter group, especially considering the South-West/Macarthur bid already has an A-League standard stadium ready to go. 

Otherwise thank god the FFA has finally pulled their finger out, this league needed fresh additions a long time ago. Hopefully we get two more teams in the coming few years. 

South-West Sydney/Macarthur is delayed by one season simply because of the pressure brought on FFA by Western Sydney Wanderers, whose new enlarged stadium won't come on-line until next season, and who demanded a season in their new stadium without possible competition before another competing Sydney side were admitted.

Other than that, there is no sense in FFA's decision whatsoever.

What puzzles me is the rejection of the Canberra bid. They have a stadium, a W-League team, and apparently 8,000 members. There must have been some serious shortcomings in their financials to warrant rejection, although I note they are still in the mix for the final version of the league.

IMO Team11 can consider themselves unlucky losers at this stage. When I posted earlier today I didn't realise that the Western Melbourne proposed stadium doesn't even have any surrounding infrastructure whatsoever - shows you how often I pay any attention to the west let alone ever go there - so FFA must have some serious guarantees to have favoured that bid.

[Dylan]

WM to have the Red and White colours

[haz]

How could FFA butcher expansion so bad after delaying it so long?.... FMD

[jw1739]

14 minutes ago, haz said:

How could FFA butcher expansion so bad after delaying it so long?.... FMD

Not much has changed. Gallop is still there, and so is O'Rourke. HTF the latter got his job God only knows.

[CityWildcat]

The right choices, probably. The West is just about Australia's fastest-growing region, and has a metropolis and a decent-sized city at each end of its ''heartland''  

This has zero impact on me, apart from potentially a different day out to watch a new derby.  Like.

A strong start by this Western team, a new coach for us if this season stutters to a steaming halt, a lifting of the salary cap even, then it will be GAME ON and we might even be rejuvenated. 

I'm underwhelmed by City right now, like many of us, but at the same time, rusted on.  I don't change horses at my age. Hell no.  I was here (again like many of us) before Manchester City, whom I have NO passion for, and I will be here after Warren Joyce, the Western Suburbs Wanderers, and the City of Casey Clowns.  

Edited December 13, 2018 by CityWildcat

[Tony999]

1 hour ago, jw1739 said:

South-West Sydney/Macarthur is delayed by one season simply because of the pressure brought on FFA by Western Sydney Wanderers, whose new enlarged stadium won't come on-line until next season, and who demanded a season in their new stadium without possible competition before another competing Sydney side were admitted.

Other than that, there is no sense in FFA's decision whatsoever.

What puzzles me is the rejection of the Canberra bid. They have a stadium, a W-League team, and apparently 8,000 members. There must have been some serious shortcomings in their financials to warrant rejection, although I note they are still in the mix for the final version of the league.

IMO Team11 can consider themselves unlucky losers at this stage. When I posted earlier today I didn't realise that the Western Melbourne proposed stadium doesn't even have any surrounding infrastructure whatsoever - shows you how often I pay any attention to the west let alone ever go there - so FFA must have some serious guarantees to have favoured that bid.

Exactly what I don't understand. But we are talking about incompetent "football" men here so it doesn't suprise me.

But in terms of West Melbourne, now I am worried about driving to a game in the West. I don't wanna see my car dumped somewhere in Melton South.

Edited December 13, 2018 by Tony999

[Dylan]

It seems like the main criteria were... A stadium and how much you were willing to pay for a licence.

 

Except for South Melbourne whom everyone knows talks sooo much shit its not funny, has a few loud supporters of the 500 that turn up each week and has a terrible stadium which is a pain in the absolute ass to get too