rass Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 1 minute ago, Shahanga said: It’s so bizarre isn’t it? If MOH isn’t your cup of tea why bloody sign him? It’s not like you can say the bloke I saw in training wasn’t the same in matches I agree, I really thought he could tear this league apart. You watch games like last night where Mileusnic (speed) was able to get behind the defence and also players like Barba and Rojas doing the same in the past for tards - and you think this bloke could've done the same and be even better than those dudes. I recall seeing him looking a little agitated as he was doing his warm ups waiting for the chance to get on against the Jets in the FFA Cup game, which didn't eventuate. From then came the late entrance v WSW and then the hamstring injury of which we really don't know at what point he was ready to come back with. Perhaps something happened in that Indian pre-season trip that unsettled him... who knows unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 34 minutes ago, rass said: I agree, I really thought he could tear this league apart. You watch games like last night where Mileusnic (speed) was able to get behind the defence and also players like Barba and Rojas doing the same in the past for tards - and you think this bloke could've done the same and be even better than those dudes. I recall seeing him looking a little agitated as he was doing his warm ups waiting for the chance to get on against the Jets in the FFA Cup game, which didn't eventuate. From then came the late entrance v WSW and then the hamstring injury of which we really don't know at what point he was ready to come back with. Perhaps something happened in that Indian pre-season trip that unsettled him... who knows unfortunately. Interesting you say that. My impression of him was that he didn't look all that confident when on the pitch. Think back to, say, Arzani, probably at the other end of the confidence spectrum, who always exuded confidence in his own ability - always ready to try to beat his man, or two, or three. Anyway, it's over, and hopefully O'Halloran can put it all behind him and get a gig in the SPL and do well there again. And hopefully City learns from the experience. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torn Asunder Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 (edited) I think that if he was truly good enough, he would have played. Perhaps its true that he didn't settle ... mentally its hard for some people to have to prove themselves and fight to break into a team, especially if they think they shouldn't have to, and that they deserve a spot based on past history / experience. Edited January 10, 2019 by Torn Asunder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n i k o Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 11 minutes ago, Torn Asunder said: I think that if he was truly good enough, he would have played. Perhaps its true that he didn't settle ... mentally its hard for some people to have to prove themselves and fight to break into a team, especially if they think they shouldn't have to, and that they deserve a spot based on past history / experience. After Bruno, Kilkenny, Brandan you beleive that? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torn Asunder Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 1 hour ago, n i k o said: After Bruno, Kilkenny, Brandan you beleive that? IMO it is quite wrong to assume that every player who isn't a starter is being badly treated by Joyce. That's just nonsense. Some, yes, but not all. In the case of O'Halloran, he was back from injury, and he was being selected for the match-day squad. Just like Good, La Rocca, etc. Do you really think he was super-impressive in the minutes he had when he came on? Well, I don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n i k o Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 8 hours ago, Torn Asunder said: yes 7 hours ago, jw1739 said: IMO it is quite wrong to assume that every player who isn't a starter is being badly treated by Joyce. That's just nonsense. Some, yes, but not all. In the case of O'Halloran, he was back from injury, and he was being selected for the match-day squad. Just like Good, La Rocca, etc. Do you really think he was super-impressive in the minutes he had when he came on? Well, I don't. Come on Jw seriously. Thats a big exaggeration on your part, I wouldn't nor did I ever suggest every player is badly treated by Joyce. In fact I named only three players, players that had already been frozen out or left the club. My question to @Torn Asunder based on his comment, is Kilkenny good enough given his form at Perth? Is Bruno good enough, or Brandan? All three players are clearly a cut above most of the league in their given position. For arguments sake MH may very well be not good enough, but the point I'm making is that Joyce has proven you can be more than good enough yet still not get into the team. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torn Asunder Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 Kilkenny; playing ability is not in question, but his attitude, and probably his mouth, means no for City Bruno, as a player we know what he can do, but again his attitude seemingly indicates he feels he is bigger than the club / manager, and that never ends well Brandan, an excitement machine, but no in terms of ‘Joyce fit’. With Joyce at the helm, a player will only be good enough to get in the team if they train well, are mentally committed, have the right attitude, fight to earn their spot and to retain it, and they accept Joyce is number 1. It’s all relevant to the gaffer’s way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jovan Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 5 hours ago, Torn Asunder said: With Joyce at the helm, a player will only be good enough to get in the team if they train well, are mentally committed, have the right attitude, fight to earn their spot and to retain it, and they accept Joyce is number 1. It’s all relevant to the gaffer’s way. This I think is probably spot on. Now the real question is that does this philosophy or mantra create a team that is palatable to the general punter? For me personally I think his style of management is fundamentally flawed. To get a group of blokes to buy into and accept this over a long period lets say 2 to 5 seasons is almost impossible. What we've seen is that even his signings, that I'm assuming he has approved initially have be moved on. Now the reason I mentioned 2 to 5 years is that if we are ever going to grow the club it needs to be built around a core group of players that hopefully win trophies or at bare minimum bleed for the shirt trying. Changing 3 or 4 senior players every transfer window is opposite to that. Now TBF this season so far has seen less upheaval, so far. And maybe it will become less and less and we might get to a stage where we get that core group all buying in and accepting his way. The other issue that is probably more important is how he sets up and wants to play. Obviously this is an endless debate and there a many ways to play soccer and none are exclusively correct but for me personally it has to be pleasant on the eye. So considering these two situations I can't see them ever happening. That is 15 or 16 players good enough to win things that are willing to persevere with such a rigid and uncompromising regime. Maybe 10 years ago or more it may have worked but people have changed, especially current 20 to 30 year olds. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEARTinator Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 It’s an interesting topic, the gaffer’s way of managing. A very interesting article here https://www.foottheball.com/locker-room/premier-league-managers-coaching-style/192415 As with many things there is no right or wrong way. Time will tell. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw1739 Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 1 hour ago, HEARTinator said: It’s an interesting topic, the gaffer’s way of managing. A very interesting article here https://www.foottheball.com/locker-room/premier-league-managers-coaching-style/192415 As with many things there is no right or wrong way. Time will tell. Great article. Thanks. Certainly helps when looking at Joyce's style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bt50 Posted January 10, 2019 Report Share Posted January 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Jovan said: This I think is probably spot on. Now the real question is that does this philosophy or mantra create a team that is palatable to the general punter? For me personally I think his style of management is fundamentally flawed. To get a group of blokes to buy into and accept this over a long period lets say 2 to 5 seasons is almost impossible. What we've seen is that even his signings, that I'm assuming he has approved initially have be moved on. Now the reason I mentioned 2 to 5 years is that if we are ever going to grow the club it needs to be built around a core group of players that hopefully win trophies or at bare minimum bleed for the shirt trying. Changing 3 or 4 senior players every transfer window is opposite to that. Now TBF this season so far has seen less upheaval, so far. And maybe it will become less and less and we might get to a stage where we get that core group all buying in and accepting his way. The other issue that is probably more important is how he sets up and wants to play. Obviously this is an endless debate and there a many ways to play soccer and none are exclusively correct but for me personally it has to be pleasant on the eye. So considering these two situations I can't see them ever happening. That is 15 or 16 players good enough to win things that are willing to persevere with such a rigid and uncompromising regime. Maybe 10 years ago or more it may have worked but people have changed, especially current 20 to 30 year olds. I tend to agree with this for sure. The philosophy is good in theory, but not in practice. But i suppose im sympathetic to Joyce somewhat in that respect too, because thats always been his philosophy and he is just enacting it. You cant buy an apple and then complain it tastes like an apple when you wanted an orange. The club at the end of the day opted to appoint him with that philosophy, so its more on them if they, and the fans, arent happy with it. Tbf, i think we needed it (the cultural change) when Joyce was appointed, and i desperately hope that the foundations he's set will carry forward to the next gaffer. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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