World Cup Thread

[haz]

16 minutes ago, Young Polak said:

 

14 minutes ago, Embee said:

Oh my I love this forum.

[belaguttman]

2 hours ago, jw1739 said:

I rather think that the cost is because we're trying to coach natural tendencies out of certain young players rather than encourage them to get better at what they're trying? I made that mistake when coaching my son's junior teams for a couple of years.

Ah, the "menace of egalitarianism" in football coaching? I love this quote: "There are, he will soon discover, certain ideas and positions all Australians are supposed to believe in and salute. Near the top of the list is equality, an idea for which we are never given a precise definition, but to which everyone is expected to genuflect."

Is it possible to be a good striker without being selfish?

[Jovan]

8 minutes ago, belaguttman said:

Is it possible to be a good striker without being selfish?

Of course. 

[belaguttman]

2 minutes ago, Jovan said:

Of course. 

Then why can't we produce team players that are good strikers? Poor technique and poor positioning seem to be the main issues, both can be coached. 

Even collectivist cultures like Japan and Sth Korea produce better strikers

Edited June 28, 2018 by belaguttman

[NewConvert]

56 minutes ago, belaguttman said:

Then why can't we produce team players that are good strikers? Poor technique and poor positioning seem to be the main issues, both can be coached. 

Even collectivist cultures like Japan and Sth Korea produce better strikers

We went to the WC with four strikers: Nabbout (ok not a natural striker but that was his role), Juric, McClaren and Cahil who I won't consider because of his age, lack of fitness, etc.

Starting with Nabbout I have no issues with the the way he played, he did, as I believe, what he was asked to do. However, I do have issues with the role BVM asked him to play which was a lone striker there to put pressure on the defence. Personally I think that for the team to be more potent he should have had Juric up front and for Nabbout to crumb and assist or to put it simply two up front.

McClaren did not get a run, although he could have easily replaced Nabbout because of his speed. I don't know why BVM chose not to use him but I thought that he should have replaced Nabbout and once again part of two strikers.

Juric frustrates me. Watching Australia vs Thailand he should have kicked at least a brace but he never seems to find the back of the net for Australia. Transfermarkt has him as 2.5M Euros, the most expensive player in the team and he scored 7 goals (bearing in mind injuries and suspensions reduced his playing time) and runner for the teams golden boot. But against Peru offered very little. So I don't know who could possibly coach him to hit the back of the net, or perhaps neither Ange's nor BVM's team structure suited him.

And all three players do score for their respective team. I can't think of anyone else who could play the #9 role (Arzani perhaps?). So I am really looking forward to seeing how Arnold will fix the front line. Whether to look for another promising player or adjust the team to have two strikers up forward.

[moops]

1 hour ago, belaguttman said:

Then why can't we produce team players that are good strikers? Poor technique and poor positioning seem to be the main issues, both can be coached. 

Even collectivist cultures like Japan and Sth Korea produce better strikers

umm ok

1 hour ago, belaguttman said:

Then why can't we produce team players that are good strikers? Poor technique and poor positioning seem to be the main issues, both can be coached. 

Even collectivist cultures like Japan and Sth Korea produce better strikers

I don't know about Korea at all. Japan brought over a lot of Brazilian coaches to create their equivalent NTC which they have incorporated into their school system, I guess with their crazy school clubs thing they have. I have seen some Porto and Sporting videos on youth training sessions and I guess it would be similar to Brazilian stuff, not only do they have SSG's, passing and ball control training at around U12's, they also do header and shooting training, crossing training, I have seen it done as just repetitious and game specific training where there can be a defender involved, 3 or 4 passes, a cross or a through ball and a strike with a goalie in goal. (not sure if I described it well) It's not just the strikers either, everyone does it, joga bonito baby.

I have no idea about Korea.

[moops]

6 minutes ago, NewConvert said:

We went to the WC with four strikers: Nabbout (ok not a natural striker but that was his role), Juric, McClaren and Cahil who I won't consider because of his age, lack of fitness, etc.

Starting with Nabbout I have no issues with the the way he played, he did, as I believe, what he was asked to do. However, I do have issues with the role BVM asked him to play which was a lone striker there to put pressure on the defence. Personally I think that for the team to be more potent he should have had Juric up front and for Nabbout to crumb and assist or to put it simply two up front.

McClaren did not get a run, although he could have easily replaced Nabbout because of his speed. I don't know why BVM chose not to use him but I thought that he should have replaced Nabbout and once again part of two strikers.

Juric frustrates me. Watching Australia vs Thailand he should have kicked at least a brace but he never seems to find the back of the net for Australia. Transfermarkt has him as 2.5M Euros, the most expensive player in the team and he scored 7 goals (bearing in mind injuries and suspensions reduced his playing time) and runner for the teams golden boot. But against Peru offered very little. So I don't know who could possibly coach him to hit the back of the net, or perhaps neither Ange's nor BVM's team structure suited him.

And all three players do score for their respective team. I can't think of anyone else who could play the #9 role (Arzani perhaps?). So I am really looking forward to seeing how Arnold will fix the front line. Whether to look for another promising player or adjust the team to have two strikers up forward.

I reckon Nabbout would have offered more than Kruze did on the wing tbh, in fact I really wanted Petratos to play left wing, they were tucking in and it was made for him until it was time for the Arzani show.

I personally like Juric, but the way BVM set up didn't suit him.

Maccas might come good, or Taggart could be an option, same as Leckie who had improved, but at this WC was a bit shyte, lots of industry with nothing to show for it with poor control.

The talk of creating chances is a bit OT, the quality of the chances weren't there, Behich and Arzani were the only guys who consistently created good chances, Juric created a couple, but no one was running on to them, oh and Kruze had that cross to Leckie. Other than that it was speculative shots from Mooy, Rogic and Arzani.

I hope Najjarine and Najjar get some game time, as good as Arzani apparently.

[NewConvert]

44 minutes ago, moops said:

I reckon Nabbout would have offered more than Kruze did on the wing tbh, in fact I really wanted Petratos to play left wing, they were tucking in and it was made for him until it was time for the Arzani show.

I personally like Juric, but the way BVM set up didn't suit him.

Maccas might come good, or Taggart could be an option, same as Leckie who had improved, but at this WC was a bit shyte, lots of industry with nothing to show for it with poor control.

The talk of creating chances is a bit OT, the quality of the chances weren't there, Behich and Arzani were the only guys who consistently created good chances, Juric created a couple, but no one was running on to them, oh and Kruze had that cross to Leckie. Other than that it was speculative shots from Mooy, Rogic and Arzani.

I hope Najjarine and Najjar get some game time, as good as Arzani apparently.

Its telling that the two players you mentioned have yet to earn any senior game time. This effectively means that there is no other senior player who could step into the #9 role.

[moops]

26 minutes ago, NewConvert said:

Its telling that the two players you mentioned have yet to earn any senior game time. This effectively means that there is no other senior player who could step into the #9 role.

I would see Najjarine as a winger tbh, Arzani made a twitter saying Najjarine was better than him, when he was breaking into the team.

But no, not behind Bruno, Najjar needs to step up, whether it's a loan this year or on the bench is not my decision.

of course my personal opinion, sure we could put Vidosic on, though if Bruno gets injured again, I would give Najjar a go.

Edited June 28, 2018 by moops

[moops]

28 minutes ago, NewConvert said:

Its telling that the two players you mentioned have yet to earn any senior game time. This effectively means that there is no other senior player who could step into the #9 role.

It's telling of this league, to many journeymen or aging foreigners have come in that don't contribute a whole lot, yet get game time because of their status. I think last year a lot of clubs got their visas right tbh, but it's a balancing act.

It's telling us our league is a development league at the most (and that's pushing the envelope), CFG are leading the way in the HAL, that's why other clubs are so salty towards us and we are reaping the rewards(CFG ffp accountants are as well).

The HAL isn't a bad league, nothing wrong with a development league, look at the Dutch league, Portuguese or Brazil or Uruguay, all development leagues.

[belaguttman]

does anyone have any specific knowledge of the national training curriculum and it's approach to goal scoring training?

[jeffplz]

Just now, belaguttman said:

does anyone have any specific knowledge of the national training curriculum and it's approach to goal scoring training?

tikii taka playing off the flanks

[moops]

11 minutes ago, belaguttman said:

does anyone have any specific knowledge of the national training curriculum and it's approach to goal scoring training?

No not really, the synopsis sounds good though, but I get the impression it's all SSG's, I could be terribly wrong.

This gives you a rudimentary breakdown with not a lot of information, of course you have to do a course.

http://www.ffacoachingresource.com.au/about-the-curriculum/the-skill-acquisition-phase/

this seems a bit light to me compared to Europe-

During the Skill Acquisition Phase, 2-3 sessions of 60-75 minutes plus a game
is a safe weekly workload, with the following session planning guidelines:

Welcome: 5 minutes

Skill Introduction: 15-20 minutes

Skill Training: 25-30 minutes

Skill Game: 20-25 minutes

Wrap up: 5 minutes

Edited June 28, 2018 by moops

[belaguttman]

12 minutes ago, jeffplz said:

tikii taka playing off the flanks

Yes, and then?

Quote

 The FFA Skill Acquisition training program focuses upon developing four core skills when in possession of the ball:

1. Striking the ball
   This includes all forms of striking the ball such as short/long passing, shooting and crossing
    
2. First Touch
   Controlling the ball with all allowed body parts
    
3. 1v1
   All moves, feints and accelerations to get past and away from an opponent
4. Running with the ball
   At speed (with a lot of space) or 'dribbling' (in tight areas), this includes techniques for protecting the ball and changing direction

These four core skils cover 95% of the  actions of any outfield player when in possession of the ball during a game of football . The other 5% consists of actions such as heading and throw-ins.

3

All terribly important core skills. This is a brief summary but surely scoring is a core skill?

[moops]

30 minutes ago, belaguttman said:

Yes, and then?

All terribly important core skills. This is a brief summary but surely scoring is a core skill?

Scoring I assume comes under striking the ball. What gets me is some players don't understand body shape when striking and how it can effect the curve of the ball, it's like they haven't been taught this very basic skill.

Let alone heading which isn't mentioned, though there is a fear of brain injury and I guess they are taking the safe route, though there are 'soft' balls specific for this.

this bit is also telling-

These four core skils cover 95% of the  actions of any outfield player

they have a spelling mistake, haha

Edited June 28, 2018 by moops

[moops]

I'm going for Senegal, Africa has been terrible, I hope they do well here.

[Young Polak]

Well now that's controversial.

Polish fans are absolutely fuming and embarrassed the way the last 10min panned out

[recyclosaurusrex]

Both teams should be embarrassed with the last 10 minutes. Absolute garbage.

[Tony999]

7 hours ago, Young Polak said:

Well now that's controversial.

Polish fans are absolutely fuming and embarrassed the way the last 10min panned out

What happened last 10 min? I didn't watch it

[jw1739]

11 hours ago, moops said:

they have a spelling mistake, haha

Where?

Just now, jw1739 said:

Where?

Oh yes - skils - takes a while to see it!

[HeartFc]

Poland are an utter disgrace for that shit. Let Japan pass in circles for 10 minutes so they can get a worthless 1-0 win at a world cup. Why not use those 10 minutes to get experience on how to score when a team wants to park the bus. You cant blame Japan, they knew Columbia scored and also knew they couldn't get any yellow cards. Instead of pushing against a team who couldn't throw tackles we sit there like a bunch of low testosterone phaggots.

I would love to pelt bottles at these sad cunts, unfortunately a bowl of cereal at the TV was the best I could do.

[jw1739]

20 hours ago, belaguttman said:

Is it possible to be a good striker without being selfish?

Perhaps selfish is not quite the right word. Perhaps it should be self-assurance, self-belief - something like that. All creative players have it - Daniel Arzani has it in spades for example. Behich has it. When I look at our forwards such as Kruse and Rogic I just see pedestrian players - sure they're skilled, they're fit etc. (and far, far more talented than I could ever have been) but they just don't have that "x-factor" that everyone goes on about for Arzani.

Of course, there's a school of thought that education in Australia is dumbing-down. If that's true, then it's going to be hard to encourage and nurture the value of achievement in a sport if the overall environment doesn't.

I don't know. I don't have any children in the "education system" any more. Even the term "education system" makes me shudder, because it implies that one cap fits all - which it doesn't.

[jw1739]

Having now watched the highlights and seen the end of the Poland-Japan match, I can't see any difference between what happened there and match-fixing. FIFA should come down heavily on both countries. Absolutely shameful.

[neio]

1 hour ago, jw1739 said:

Having now watched the highlights and seen the end of the Poland-Japan match, I can't see any difference between what happened there and match-fixing. FIFA should come down heavily on both countries. Absolutely shameful.

I can't see how it's an issue, was it boring yes

But Japan did what they had to to get through to the next round, if anyone is to blame it was Poland for just letting them do it 

[GreenSeater]

On 28/06/2018 at 2:19 AM, haz said:

Well the last time they were knocked out in the group stage was 1938..... WW3 confirmed. Lucky I am a white blonde

Yeah I fell for that meme too. There actually was no group stage in 1938, however Germany did go out in the round of 16 which was the first round

[NewConvert]

The Age had the following article regarding the next generation of Socceroos:

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/soccer/what-will-the-socceroos-look-like-at-the-2022-world-cup-in-qatar-20180628-p4zofn.html

As I wrote earlier Australia does not seem to have a quality striker - sadly there doesn't appear to be any in the horizon either.

 

[NewConvert]

The guardian has a list of generally useless stats (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/jun/29/the-best-passers-hardest-workers-and-slowest-players-of-the-world-cup-so-far) but what was striking was that the out of the top five teams that ran the most (Australia was 5th) only one went through, Denmark. Of the five sides that ran the least four went through. Also it showed that Rogic was the third most dispossessed player - given the minimal impact he had in the first two games it just adds up that he does not belong in the NT.

[HughJass]

1 hour ago, NewConvert said:

sadly there doesn't appear to be any in the horizon either.

 

Ones I would keep an eye out on  Ben folami and john Roberts

Edited June 30, 2018 by HughJass

[jw1739]

2 hours ago, NewConvert said:

sadly there doesn't appear to be any in the horizon either.

Bruno will be 31 in September and entering the final season of his marquee contract. So we'll need one in due course, even if Bruno goes on for another season after that. We've got some good young players in our pipeline, so why not develop a couple of our own?

[playmaker]

2 hours ago, NewConvert said:

The guardian has a list of generally useless stats (https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/jun/29/the-best-passers-hardest-workers-and-slowest-players-of-the-world-cup-so-far) but what was striking was that the out of the top five teams that ran the most (Australia was 5th) only one went through, Denmark. Of the five sides that ran the least four went through

It's never changed, efficient ball movement wins games, something that has been talked about on this forum at length.

Good get.

[NewConvert]

1 hour ago, jw1739 said:

Bruno will be 31 in September and entering the final season of his marquee contract. So we'll need one in due course, even if Bruno goes on for another season after that. We've got some good young players in our pipeline, so why not develop a couple of our own?

Prior to the demise of the FFA Youth League Melb City won the youth tournament with the golden boot winner (forgot his name - the bloke that Mauk broke his wrist). This forum was divided as to whether he could step up or not. In the long term he was released. The Olyroos have had a few players but none seem to develop. So I am not entirely certain that they can be developed - the first step would be to recognise them when they are in the early teens and then begin teh process of development.

[jw1739]

4 minutes ago, NewConvert said:

Prior to the demise of the FFA Youth League Melb City won the youth tournament with the golden boot winner (forgot his name - the bloke that Mauk broke his wrist). This forum was divided as to whether he could step up or not. In the long term he was released. The Olyroos have had a few players but none seem to develop. So I am not entirely certain that they can be developed - the first step would be to recognise them when they are in the early teens and then begin teh process of development.

@NewConvert Wade Dekker?

[Dylan]

Seems like the consensus of the footballing public is that a second division is crucial. 

I think going so far so quickly won’t end well so I would like to hope that there is some way to develop a second division in steps. 

[jw1739]

20 minutes ago, Dylan said:

Seems like the consensus of the footballing public is that a second division is crucial. 

I think going so far so quickly won’t end well so I would like to hope that there is some way to develop a second division in steps. 

Totally agree. We've been in a static situation for quite a time and it doesn't seem sensible to suddenly lurch forward in every direction all at once. FFA struggles managing its present portfolio, let alone an expanded one.

Could we start with a little play-off series between the winners of the various state NPLs to determine an NPL Champion? - that would enable some assessment of public interest.

[NewConvert]

4 hours ago, jw1739 said:

@NewConvert Wade Dekker?

Thats right. Wade Dekker.

[Dylan]

14 hours ago, jw1739 said:

Totally agree. We've been in a static situation for quite a time and it doesn't seem sensible to suddenly lurch forward in every direction all at once. FFA struggles managing its present portfolio, let alone an expanded one.

Could we start with a little play-off series between the winners of the various state NPLs to determine an NPL Champion? - that would enable some assessment of public interest.

I think that already happens. Heidelberg won it last season?

anyway says it right there about the exposure it has... although we can’t forget that the NSL survived on an oily rag so it is possible.

i think the way to go is get a ‘second division’ up and running even if it’s only basic. Then look at how to bridge the A-League gap and then introduce pro/rel in stages.

the critical issue will be how to make the relegated clubs from the A-League financials stable enough to survive such a hit. I think the other way around, div 2 clubs going up, would be easier to manage.

Ultimately I think for this to all work the A-League might have to take a bit of a hit in terms of its..... I guess you’d describe it as stature or ‘look’ for this to all work as I think that they are going to have to take a short term hit to their financial situation.

 

[NewConvert]

1 hour ago, Dylan said:

I think that already happens. Heidelberg won it last season?

anyway says it right there about the exposure it has... although we can’t forget that the NSL survived on an oily rag so it is possible.

i think the way to go is get a ‘second division’ up and running even if it’s only basic. Then look at how to bridge the A-League gap and then introduce pro/rel in stages.

the critical issue will be how to make the relegated clubs from the A-League financials stable enough to survive such a hit. I think the other way around, div 2 clubs going up, would be easier to manage.

Ultimately I think for this to all work the A-League might have to take a bit of a hit in terms of its..... I guess you’d describe it as stature or ‘look’ for this to all work as I think that they are going to have to take a short term hit to their financial situation.

 

An alternative would be for the A-League clubs and NPL clubs to have a formal association. Because ultimately what would happen is that the NPL clubs become more professional than hat they currently are. So why not form some type of commercial association? It already happens at international levels (CFG is a good example).

[Dylan]

22 minutes ago, NewConvert said:

An alternative would be for the A-League clubs and NPL clubs to have a formal association. Because ultimately what would happen is that the NPL clubs become more professional than hat they currently are. So why not form some type of commercial association? It already happens at international levels (CFG is a good example).

Yeah that’s a good idea, at least a formal approach to the junior ranks. So a way to combine the junior teams of both clubs and coaches etc. 

obviously would like us to join up with Heidelberg given the proximity.

however I would hate for us to force any NPL club to change its name and  colours and all that. 

Once you have the NPL club built up, break off and let them go on their own.

ive actually never really liked the academy approach, which seams to be the way it’s going. I’d rather have us use the surrounding state and NPL clubs to develop by offering coaching etc. I think that would be a lot better than us having junior teams and only teaching them one way

[jw1739]

2 hours ago, Dylan said:

I think that already happens. Heidelberg won it last season?

anyway says it right there about the exposure it has... although we can’t forget that the NSL survived on an oily rag so it is possible.

i think the way to go is get a ‘second division’ up and running even if it’s only basic. Then look at how to bridge the A-League gap and then introduce pro/rel in stages.

the critical issue will be how to make the relegated clubs from the A-League financials stable enough to survive such a hit. I think the other way around, div 2 clubs going up, would be easier to manage.

Ultimately I think for this to all work the A-League might have to take a bit of a hit in terms of its..... I guess you’d describe it as stature or ‘look’ for this to all work as I think that they are going to have to take a short term hit to their financial situation.

Good God - there already is and indeed Heidelberg are the current Champions. My apologies. I'm clearly as lost as @fensaddler is in the southern suburbs.

The issue surrounding promotion/relegation has always been relegation and how on earth a relegated A-League club could survive. IMO it is worth noting that neither of our major competitors - AFL and NRL - has promotion/relegation, and I would suggest that the reasons they have steered clear of it are the same ones that mean we should too. 

[NewConvert]

8 hours ago, jw1739 said:

Good God - there already is and indeed Heidelberg are the current Champions. My apologies. I'm clearly as lost as @fensaddler is in the southern suburbs.

The issue surrounding promotion/relegation has always been relegation and how on earth a relegated A-League club could survive. IMO it is worth noting that neither of our major competitors - AFL and NRL - has promotion/relegation, and I would suggest that the reasons they have steered clear of it are the same ones that mean we should too. 

As I have noted that the two previous competitions, the VFA and the NSL had relegation and promotion and neither exist today.