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Is there football talent in Victoria?


Jay
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Is there football talent in Victoria - or has AFL (footy) got a stranglehold?

I know there have been recent talents such as McLaren, Nabbout and Leckie - however NSW seem to be churning out the most. 

- Melbourne City FC have been developing better pathways which could help improve this.

      

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57 minutes ago, Jay said:

Is there football talent in Victoria - or has AFL (footy) got a stranglehold?

I know there have been recent talents such as McLaren, Nabbout and Leckie - however NSW seem to be churning out the most. 

- Melbourne City FC have been developing better pathways which could help improve this.

      

 

Is that you CFG scouts?

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National youth teams have always been NSW focused (SA and FFA have always been NSW focused, at least Melbourne is second rung) , it's football's heartland so we are told. It gives more opportunity to those players and make them stand out. 

Most players outside of NSW end up toughing it out in Europe. 

Some are more successful than others like Jackson Irvine, who lived in Cranbourne and went to Scotland. 

Vince Grella comes from Dandenong and went to Italy, he even played for us. 

Mark Viduka is a Melbourne lad, Australia's best striker. 

Simon Colosimo came from Dandenong as well and was a socceroo, another who played for us, but played most of his football in Australia.

There are probably others, these come off the top of my head. 

Edited by moops
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The problem is, even with youth now, everyone is prepared to get up and move states (Najjirine, roberts - both touted to be our next big players - went to WSW).  How can you put your finger on someone and say hes Victorian. What qualifies them as being 'our' talent. Genreau is from france...so and so

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8 hours ago, Originalmeme said:

The problem is, even with youth now, everyone is prepared to get up and move states (Najjirine, roberts - both touted to be our next big players - went to WSW).  How can you put your finger on someone and say hes Victorian. What qualifies them as being 'our' talent. Genreau is from france...so and so

@Originalmeme I thought Ramy Najjarine came to us from WSW and is still here? I've seen nothing to suggest he's returned to WSW. Please clarify.

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Najjirine and Roberts are from NSW.

Some Victorian kids that look promising are: Delianov, Graham, Portelli, Pierias and Lesiotis (especially). 

My reason for this topic is more the hold AFL footy has in Victoria, and is it a major concern?

 

  

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AFL does dominate but I don't think its a major concern, and its not a new phenomenon.

Victoria produces great cricketers but nowhere near the volume that NSW does, even though Victoria has more registered cricketers than any other state. Lots of cricketers in the southern states also play footy but far fewer in the northern states also play union/league. There is a constant stream of young Australians who have to chose between footy and cricket (Sutherland, Keath, Carey etc) but you rarely hear of a young cricketer who had the opportunity to play league or union professionally.

Compared to the rugby codes, australian rules is much more accessible. It is a game for all shapes and sizes. Also, unlike rugby, there aren't 2 different types of australian rules divided largely by class. Its is a game for everyone.

 

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7 hours ago, Jacques Le Cube said:

AFL does dominate but I don't think its a major concern, and its not a new phenomenon.

Victoria produces great cricketers but nowhere near the volume that NSW does, even though Victoria has more registered cricketers than any other state. Lots of cricketers in the southern states also play footy but far fewer in the northern states also play union/league. There is a constant stream of young Australians who have to chose between footy and cricket (Sutherland, Keath, Carey etc) but you rarely hear of a young cricketer who had the opportunity to play league or union professionally.

Compared to the rugby codes, australian rules is much more accessible. It is a game for all shapes and sizes. Also, unlike rugby, there aren't 2 different types of australian rules divided largely by class. Its is a game for everyone.

Don’t know if I agree that AFL doesn’t discriminate on body size and shape. How many guys under 5’11” play? And if you’re 5’8” and 100+kg (thinking of @thisphantomfortress Here 😀) how many afl games are you going to play?

I think a factor against football  has to be that you don’t have to be very talented to make it in AFL. I mean there are 800 professional players in the country.  What level do you reckon the 800th best footballer is playing at?

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24 minutes ago, Shahanga said:

 

Don’t know if I agree that AFL doesn’t discriminate on body size and shape. How many guys under 5’11” play? And if you’re 5’8” and 100+kg (thinking of @thisphantomfortress Here 😀) how many afl games are you going to play?

I think a factor against football  has to be that you don’t have to be very talented to make it in AFL. I mean there are 800 professional players in the country.  What level do you reckon the 800th best footballer is playing at?

What about all the 2nd tier comps. VFL SANFL and WAFL wouldn't those players be regarded proffessional? 

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22 hours ago, Shahanga said:

 

Don’t know if I agree that AFL doesn’t discriminate on body size and shape. How many guys under 5’11” play? And if you’re 5’8” and 100+kg (thinking of @thisphantomfortress Here 😀) how many afl games are you going to play?

I think a factor against football  has to be that you don’t have to be very talented to make it in AFL. I mean there are 800 professional players in the country.  What level do you reckon the 800th best footballer is playing at?

Interesting topic.

The hard data reckons that for AFL size  matters, except in some circumstances.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/size-matters-at-afl-level/news-story/5c275a5d36c19a01072779cd3f9267dd

"Data collected by Adelaide sports doctor Geoffrey Verrall and AFL sports scientist Jamie Hepner suggest genetics play a bigger part in achieving a top-level football career than skill or desire.

Using AFL statistics, they noted the height of the 562 rookies selected in AFL national drafts between 2004 and 2010.

They found those shorter than 180cm could just about forget trying for a place in the elite league - unless they happened to be an indigenous or Pacific Islander player, who thrive on leg speed and lightning reflexes.

But just 88 (16.4 per cent) of the 535 non-indigenous/islander recruits over the seven years stood less than 183cm (6ft).

But 85 per cent (23) of the 27 indigenous/islander draftees (4.8 per cent of recruits) were shorter than the critical 183cm mark.

The findings indicate the AFL is definitely a tall man's game - unless, of course, a player has blistering pace or unique skills."

 

Data for football players

https://www.livestrong.com/article/405892-the-body-types-of-soccer-players/

"Just Under 6 Feet

A review of the European soccer labor market conducted by the International Centre for Sports Studies in Switzerland collected demographic and physical data on professional soccer players, published in 2009. Their average height was 5 feet, 11 1/2 inches tall. Germany's pros average 6 feet at the tallest end of the spectrum, and Spain's are the shortest at 5 feet, 10-3/4 inches. Goalies average 6 feet, 2 inches, midfielders, 5 feet, 10-3/4 inches, and forwards and defenders are right around 5 feet, 11-1/2 inches."

Top players such as Messi , Maradona and Pele stand at 1.7, 1.65 and 1.73 m respectively, for example.

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I believe that one of the problems is that if you want to play high level football (Soccer) you need parents with deep pockets because the costs of playing rep football is horrendous. I once knew  very promising midfielder selected to rep level and had to pull out owing to the fact that his parents could not afford the cost of trips away . So this young guy is now playing AFL which was cheaper to access and expenses were covered by the pocal association. So in  a nutshell money wins out.

 

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Has there been a solid financial report where these monetary investments into kids playing NPL level go to? Just sounds like it goes straight into the pockets of clubs to pay their senior players wages and FFV's pocket as well. I have not found a quote from an official who can justify their costs and why it is more expensive than the other football codes.

A tier 2 NPL shit club like Nunawading paying 4 grand a game for Kallfalah from what I heard?

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52 minutes ago, Young Polak said:

Has there been a solid financial report where these monetary investments into kids playing NPL level go to? Just sounds like it goes straight into the pockets of clubs to pay their senior players wages and FFV's pocket as well. I have not found a quote from an official who can justify their costs and why it is more expensive than the other football codes.

A tier 2 NPL shit club like Nunawading paying 4 grand a game for Kallfalah from what I heard?

they have murdocca and minniecon too $$$$

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2 hours ago, Young Polak said:

Has there been a solid financial report where these monetary investments into kids playing NPL level go to? Just sounds like it goes straight into the pockets of clubs to pay their senior players wages and FFV's pocket as well. I have not found a quote from an official who can justify their costs and why it is more expensive than the other football codes.

A tier 2 NPL shit club like Nunawading paying 4 grand a game for Kallfalah from what I heard?

It won't get any better if the push for a national Second Division goes ahead...

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5 hours ago, Young Polak said:

Has there been a solid financial report where these monetary investments into kids playing NPL level go to? Just sounds like it goes straight into the pockets of clubs to pay their senior players wages and FFV's pocket as well. I have not found a quote from an official who can justify their costs and why it is more expensive than the other football codes.

A tier 2 NPL shit club like Nunawading paying 4 grand a game for Kallfalah from what I heard?

The whole system is disfunctional. The only way it has survived for so long is because of the huge participation numbers at the junior levels. 

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On 6/1/2018 at 4:27 AM, Thrillhouse said:

the cost for kids to play npl could force a lot of talented kids to go play something else 

Most parents with talented kids will put there kids into a training academy ie: the Juve one out in Brimbank/Bulleen etc

NPL clubs are an absolute disgrace charging well over $1200 (think south melb charge 2k plus) for juniors, the only problem with this you have 3rd world coach`s taking sessions who have very limited technical idea or corrupt parents putting money into the club in exchange for there kids playing time (it happens more then people actually think).

It`s honestly cheaper finding an agent putting your kid on a plane and sending them off to Europe .

 

 

Edited by AntiScum
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I'm not 100% on all this bullshit but npl rego fees can be anywhere from 1200-2000
there's visa restrictions for npl clubs and salary caps but in the state league you can do what you want and it's fucking stupid, corio brought in a former Canadian u20 captain and it's a shit league, owner claims to have sources everywhere but why bother pumping money into players that will never make the big leagues and when the club won't even make the npl 

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1 hour ago, Thrillhouse said:

I'm not 100% on all this bullshit but npl rego fees can be anywhere from 1200-2000
there's visa restrictions for npl clubs and salary caps but in the state league you can do what you want and it's fucking stupid, corio brought in a former Canadian u20 captain and it's a shit league, owner claims to have sources everywhere but why bother pumping money into players that will never make the big leagues and when the club won't even make the npl 

...doesn't stop them from trying though does it - and Corio are. Should probably have got promotion to S1 last year.  At that level you have to spend to get good players if you want to climb, or else other clubs will just poach them. Plus I doubt he's on great coin.

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7 hours ago, AntiScum said:

...NPL clubs are an absolute disgrace charging well over $1200 (think south melb charge 2k plus) for juniors, the only problem with this you have 3rd world coach`s taking sessions who have very limited technical idea or corrupt parents putting money into the club in exchange for there kids playing time (it happens more then people actually think)...

Probably one of the most correct statements ever made on this forum. 

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6 hours ago, rass said:

Probably one of the most correct statements ever made on this forum. 

I've seen 16-18yo who are good enough to play NPL senior's but can't even get a game in there age group 🤔

There's is an NPL 1 president who's rumoured to be on 200-250k yet won't spend money on the senior squad 

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1 hour ago, AntiScum said:

I've seen 16-18yo who are good enough to play NPL senior's but can't even get a game in there age group 🤔

There's is an NPL 1 president who's rumoured to be on 200-250k yet won't spend money on the senior squad 

It's all about lining their own pockets.

Seen some pure shit happening at junior level, no one gives a f**k.

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2 hours ago, rass said:

It's all about lining their own pockets.

Seen some pure shit happening at junior level, no one gives a f**k.

Exactly ...... 

You and I both have seen some crap. It's only a matter of time before the ato start running audits of sports clubs 🙄

Until the FFA fuk right off the sport will never be professional or grow.

Time to get people in from overseas who actually know what they are doing and revamp from grass roots up. 

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On 09/06/2018 at 5:37 AM, Thrillhouse said:

I'm not 100% on all this bullshit but npl rego fees can be anywhere from 1200-2000
there's visa restrictions for npl clubs and salary caps but in the state league you can do what you want and it's fucking stupid, corio brought in a former Canadian u20 captain and it's a shit league, owner claims to have sources everywhere but why bother pumping money into players that will never make the big leagues and when the club won't even make the npl 

BTW, looks like he's gone now anyway...

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7 hours ago, Dylan said:

Not surprised to hear that there is dodgy shit going on at NPL level. And some people think the saviors of football in this country are getting NPL clubs into the aleague...

It`ll take a break away from the FFA for that to ever happen, and it`ll take 10yrs to get it right.

*Full time clubs

*Full time coaches in juniors with actual FIFA coaching accreditation

*Full time players

*Proper training facilities and stadiums

*Proper state leagues

*Proper second tier national league with a gateway for juniors

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