Jump to content
Melbourne Football
Sign in to follow this  
Shahanga

The VAR

Recommended Posts

Shahanga    4,062

We’ve got a refs thread, but this is slightly different and is so controversial it needs its own topic.

Who’d have thought looking at the replays carefully would lead to stranger decisions than live refing?

I never want to think of officials as biased but last night I can’t help but think that because the first (non) offence was by a well regarded striker on a well known robust defender, it was treated differently than if the roles were reversed. The alternative view is incompetence (or club favouritism).

On top of that there is all the weird shit we have seen in games we haven’t played in, when you just think, have u been watching and playing s different game since 1974?

The delays don’t surprise me (and I hate them, one day someone will score in the dead play on time, mark my words) but the crazy final decisions do surprise me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dylan    4,419

Well people can bitch and whinge about VAR all they want but it’s fans, pundits and coaches that are to blame for it coming in. 

After years of berrating referees for ‘bad’ decisions when they were completely acceptable if they actually read the rules. Oh and after compeatly ignoring the fact that refs get no replays to see and at game speed etc etc. I have no time for people whinging about the VAR it’s their own fault for it coming in.

 

Anyway, its here to stay and there were always going to teething issues, they just need to tighten up when and how it’s used

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jw1739    8,079

Should be used for goal-line decisions only. These are the only ones that can be determined as fact rather than opinion. And they are the only ones where you can ensure that the camera(s) are actually in the correct position to determine whether the ball crossed the line or not.

Even for last night's Brattan goal the camera was not in the position it should be for a satisfactory goal-line decision - it was not lined up along the line but at an angle to it.

Everything else that reviews are used for are subjective decisions, and remain matters of opinion whether the VAR is used or not.

I doubt that VAR of itself will cause me to stop going to matches, but it doesn't encourage me to go that's for sure.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
NewConvert    769
13 hours ago, Shahanga said:

We’ve got a refs thread, but this is slightly different and is so controversial it needs its own topic.

Who’d have thought looking at the replays carefully would lead to stranger decisions than live refing?

I never want to think of officials as biased but last night I can’t help but think that because the first (non) offence was by a well regarded striker on a well known robust defender, it was treated differently than if the roles were reversed. The alternative view is incompetence (or club favouritism).

On top of that there is all the weird shit we have seen in games we haven’t played in, when you just think, have u been watching and playing s different game since 1974?

The delays don’t surprise me (and I hate them, one day someone will score in the dead play on time, mark my words) but the crazy final decisions do surprise me.

I had a rigorous debate with my brother on the topic of bias last year. Last night was confirmation that the refereeing is now being conducted with a view to have designated, approved FFA teams purely for revenue rather than for the sake of quality sports. It would take a lot of hours of video review and statistical analysis but I am certain that this will prove that the outcomes of games are being decided by bias and corruption rather than plain incompetence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Shahanga    4,062
23 minutes ago, NewConvert said:

I had a rigorous debate with my brother on the topic of bias last year. Last night was confirmation that the refereeing is now being conducted with a view to have designated, approved FFA teams purely for revenue rather than for the sake of quality sports. It would take a lot of hours of video review and statistical analysis but I am certain that this will prove that the outcomes of games are being decided by bias and corruption rather than plain incompetence.

You make some big claims there, but last night certainly provided plenty of fuel for your theories.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
HeartFc    2,841

I heard theres a cream that clears it up within 10 days, problem is your mrs will have violent diarrhoea for quite some time. 

 

EDIT: Sorry ignore that, I thought VAR stood for something else. 

Edited by HeartFc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
eric forman    50

The idea is good but the current execution is a joke. No accountability in the ref ranks as they can be as bad they want each and every week but they are still selected for games the next weekend. We don't have enough experienced and quality refs to cover the whole league let alone adding another one to act as a VAR. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jw1739    8,079
40 minutes ago, Shahanga said:

11 rounds in. That means 55 matches for which the use of a Video Assistant Referee can be assessed. That's a perfectly adequate database on which to make a report back to FIFA. So IMO you're absolutely right - stop the use of a VAR now and try to save something out of this A-League season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jw1739    8,079

The League is going to persist with use of a VAR. https://www.a-league.com.au/news/statement-head-hyundai-a-league-and-westfield-w-league-greg-orourke-relation-video-assistant

IMO the obvious change that should be made for the rest of the trial is to use the Video Assistant Referee only at the request of the On-Field Referee - this at least would be transparent to the fans watching the match. I think what's pissing everyone off at the moment is that the VAR (who is unknown and unseen by everyone in the stadium including coaches and players) is suggesting reviews to the On-Field Referee via their intercom, so no-one knows who is actually refereeing the match. Also I don't believe that the VAR should be called on to review off-side decisions - that's what the linesmen are there for.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MXG    39
2 hours ago, jw1739 said:

The League is going to persist with use of a VAR. https://www.a-league.com.au/news/statement-head-hyundai-a-league-and-westfield-w-league-greg-orourke-relation-video-assistant

IMO the obvious change that should be made for the rest of the trial is to use the Video Assistant Referee only at the request of the On-Field Referee - this at least would be transparent to the fans watching the match. I think what's pissing everyone off at the moment is that the VAR (who is unknown and unseen by everyone in the stadium including coaches and players) is suggesting reviews to the On-Field Referee via their intercom, so no-one knows who is actually refereeing the match. Also I don't believe that the VAR should be called on to review off-side decisions - that's what the linesmen are there for.

Exactly, only 1 person must be in charge. Having some dude watching a telly in the back room and ordering the ref to stop the game is blurring the responsibility.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
haz    3,221
4 hours ago, jw1739 said:

I think what's pissing everyone off at the moment is that the VAR (who is unknown and unseen by everyone in the stadium including coaches and players) is suggesting reviews to the On-Field Referee via their intercom, so no-one knows who is actually refereeing the match. 

"Yea mate Sydney are struggling here, I think I saw a possible penalty call about 10 minutes ago, im reviewing it now"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Shahanga    4,062
7 hours ago, MXG said:

Exactly, only 1 person must be in charge. Having some dude watching a telly in the back room and ordering the ref to stop the game is blurring the responsibility.

Especially if he’s half cut.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tangerine    50

VAR will improve the game in the long-rum but this year has been a fuck up. Two things that anyone who has actually played the game will realise:

  • Every missed tackle will look worse in slow motion (see Central Coast game); and
  • Context is everything. Context happens in real time. 

The second of these is critical. If the ref doesn't even see a foul in real-time then the VAR should never be able to give a red-card. This has happened twice to City - Malik in Brisbane? and Muscat in Sydney. Malik: No foul given, goal kick awarded.....VAR changes this to Red Card and penalty. No way that's a red if the ref sees nothing in real-time. Muscat in Sydney: ref doesn't even call a foul, VAR reversal to straight Red. Everything looks deliberate slowed-dwon. VAR should be a great technological improvement, but it's being applied appallingly with no common sense.

Finally, there's no way the Bobo incident is the right outcome. Can't even give a yellow because that's not what the VAR does.Please......give the ref the choice in that situation if the VAR ref is too impotent to make the call.

Edited by Tangerine
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jw1739    8,079
35 minutes ago, Tangerine said:

VAR will improve the game in the long-rum but this year has been a fuck up. Two things that anyone who has actually played the game will realise:

  • Every missed tackle will look worse in slow motion (see Central Coast game); and
  • Context is everything. Context happens in real time. 

The second of these is critical. If the ref doesn't even see a foul in real-time then the VAR should never be able to give a red-card. This has happened twice to City - Malik in Brisbane? and Muscat in Sydney. Malik: No foul given, goal kick awarded.....VAR changes this to Red Card and penalty. No way that's a red if the ref sees nothing in real-time. Muscat in Sydney: ref doesn't even call a foul, VAR reversal to straight Red. Everything looks deliberate slowed-dwon. VAR should be a great technological improvement, but it's being applied appallingly with no common sense.

Finally, there's no way the Bobo incident is the right outcome. Can't even give a yellow because that's not what the VAR does.Please......give the ref the choice in that situation if the VAR ref is too impotent to make the call.

But the MRP can adjudicate on the Bobo incident. Remember the Gerald Sibon "stamping" incident in S1? No card was issued during the match but the MRP gave him two matches off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tangerine    50
16 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

But the MRP can adjudicate on the Bobo incident. Remember the Gerald Sibon "stamping" incident in S1? No card was issued during the match but the MRP gave him two matches off.

I thought the whole point of the VAR was to get the correct decision during THAT game itself.

As a Melbourne City supporter, I'd rather he gets a yellow or red against us than misses games against Wellington and Perth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dylan    4,419

I wonder if this whole VAR thing will make people realise that Refs will make mistakes, so dont blow up about every little incident? Lol no that wont happen

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jw1739    8,079
2 hours ago, Tangerine said:

I thought the whole point of the VAR was to get the correct decision during THAT game itself.

As a Melbourne City supporter, I'd rather he gets a yellow or red against us than misses games against Wellington and Perth.

No, that is not so. The standard for overturning the on-field referee's original decision (which may have been to let play continue) is that there has been a "clear error", sometimes expanded to "clear and obvious error." It was never intended that the Video Assistant Referee interfere with the on-field referee's decisions unless "clear error" occurs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dylan    4,419

FWIW the FFA cant 'kill' the VAR. Its FIFA mandated, we only signed up for the trial. IMO might as well get it in early and sort out the issues now rather than later. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kingofhearts    3,572

Sports like tennis and cricket use video review technology so much better compared to to football. So it is possible to use VAR correctly, it's just a matter of ironing out a few issues with it.

How about just like these sports above, we give the power to the teams instead of the coaches? Each team gets 2 opportunities to review a decision, it takes some of the power away from the officials on the pitch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
n i k o    5,566
49 minutes ago, Thrillhouse said:

Yeh I watched that last night. Completely ignored the most obvious VARS decision or lack thereof in the Bobo incident. Gutless cunts. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jw1739    8,079
2 hours ago, n i k o said:

Yeh I watched that last night. Completely ignored the most obvious VARS decision or lack thereof in the Bobo incident. Gutless cunts. 

Just demonstrates that they went into this trial without having worked out the protocols to be used.

But then, is there anyone at FFA HQ who actually knows anything about football?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
n i k o    5,566
25 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

Just demonstrates that they went into this trial without having worked out the protocols to be used.

But then, is there anyone at FFA HQ who actually knows anything about football?

Well Gallop learnt on the job. Steven got handed him the job. That's about 75% of the FFA staff isn't it? 

Edited by n i k o

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
haz    3,221

VAR rules changed by the FFA. VAR only allowed to talk/interupt the centre ref if an absolute error has been made.

TBH it still does not change anything and it is still up to the VAR if an incident or error is deemed bad enough to talk to the centre ref.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jw1739    8,079
7 minutes ago, haz said:

VAR rules changed by the FFA. VAR only allowed to talk/interupt the centre ref if an absolute error has been made.

TBH it still does not change anything and it is still up to the VAR if an incident or error is deemed bad enough to talk to the centre ref.

I think there's a little bit more to it than that.

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/ffa-tells-video-assistant-referees-to-back-off-in-aleague-games-20171220-h07wrr.html

Of course, these changes in mid-season are clear evidence that insufficient thought was put into the use of a VAR before the trial started, and it's tough luck on those clubs whose results may have already been adversely affected by unnecessary interference from the VAR. IMO the changes aren't far enough, but at least FFA has listened, and that's encouraging.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jovan    3,522
23 hours ago, jw1739 said:

At least last night we were spared the intervention of the VAR.

One might argue we needed the intervention. 

Edited by Jovan
Sarcastic post bitter about a pen that was a pen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Shahanga    4,062
On 20/12/2017 at 5:27 PM, jw1739 said:

I think there's a little bit more to it than that.

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/ffa-tells-video-assistant-referees-to-back-off-in-aleague-games-20171220-h07wrr.html

Of course, these changes in mid-season are clear evidence that insufficient thought was put into the use of a VAR before the trial started, and it's tough luck on those clubs whose results may have already been adversely affected by unnecessary interference from the VAR. IMO the changes aren't far enough, but at least FFA has listened, and that's encouraging.

Hopefully this will help, because as it stood it was a train wreck.

If you look at the Bobo and Muscat incidents (as just one of about 15 examples), once Bobo was let off no sane balanced ref striving for match day consistency could send Muscat off* Yet the bloke safely tucked away in his shed did exactly that and seemed to be able justify his two decisions without blushing.

* in fact you could say what did you expect Muscat to do. The refs had showed they had a high threshold for on field violence. Clearly the onus was now on the players to “sort it out themselves”. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×