Jump to content
Melbourne Football

Rd 11: Sydney FC v Melbourne City, Friday 15 Dec 7.50pm


Harrison
 Share

Recommended Posts

2 days on and I'm still disappointed.

Not with the way we played (particularly after the Muscat red) but that the result flattered Sydney and once again the VAR process has been shown to be flawed.

2 seasons in a row, same round even, that dog Bono sinks the boots in, fails to get sent off and then goes on to score a penalty (he went studs up to Franjics knee last IIRC)

That said, we can't afford to bury our heads in sand and sit behind a cop out; our lack of finishing touch in the penalty area didn't help.

all in all, still think we are very capable.  Top spot is out now (tbf Sydneys still bloody good with or without VAR help) but second is definitely in reach

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bobo gets no punisment

Quote


THE controversy over the use of video referees in the A-League has taken another turn, with A-League bosses forced to clarify how it will affect the ability of the match review panel to sanction players.

After a weekend of huge debate over the VAR’s involvement in a clutch of red cards, questions were being asked over how it affects the post-game review of incidents by the MRP, which has the power to ban players retrospectively.

The MRP can only act where an incident has escaped the referee’s attention, but some club officials have argued that where with the VAR theoretically reviewing all incidents, the MRP would in effect be re-refereeing the game if it was to then cite a player if he wasn’t punished during a game.

Sydney FC star Bobo was at the centre of VAR controversy against Melbourne City
On Monday the head of the A-League, Greg O’Rourke, clarified that where the video referee doesn’t mention an incident to the match referee, even if he sees it, the MRP can take action afterwards.

But where the VAR mentions an incident to the match referee during the game, it will be deemed to have been dealt with on the pitch – meaning the MRP cannot act.


Sydney FC striker Bobo was at the centre of controversy on Friday night, when his kick at Melbourne City defender Manny Muscat was reviewed by VAR Strebre Delovski, who told match referee Shaun Evans that it was arguable whether it was worthy of a red card, a point of view Evans was happy to accept.

That means Bobo cannot be cited by the MRP, and is free to play in Sydney’s trip to wellington on Saturday.

Luke Brattan’s goal also brought VAR into question
But the need to create such a careful distinction is likely to fuel more criticism of the VAR system, from players, coaches and fans over the time taken to review decisions, and also a series of contentious calls.

Ironically Evans was the VAR on Saturday night for the Wanderers’ win at the Mariners, with two Central Coast players sent off after he suggested match referee Alex King review his decision to give both a yellow card.

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/football/a-league/aleague-video-referee-controversy-amplifies-with-mrp-input/news-story/b5c172b67ac69ed92601a01c22d0fdfd

Why am I not surprised?

Edited by haz
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, haz said:

Bobo gets no punisment

Why am I not surprised?

There is absolutely no logic to that at all.  Delovski concluded it was not worthy of a red, not that it was unworthy of punishment. VAR can't adjudicate less than a clear sending off, so even if Delovski thought it worthy of a yellow, he couldn't instruct the referee of that view. So at very least the ref missed a potential offence which went unpunished.

Secondly, the ref missed an offence and did not act on it. It was not fully reviewed as it would be for an MRP, just briefly reviewed. The outcome is potentially worse than without VAR, and is certainly worse in the sense of justice being seen to be done. Because without VAR, that would have been MRP, and likely adjudicated as deliberate violent conduct. Bobo is a nasty piece of work at the best of times and that will only encourage him.  I do hope what goes around comes around. Worse.

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, rass said:

C'mon peeps, we're not seriously surprised Bobo wasn't even looked at.

Surely not. It makes no difference at all that the FFA are based in Sydney. Now we've shown some spine as a club by giving Cahill the flick, and by being seen as the power behind the push for more power to the professional clubs, we can already see where we stand. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, fensaddler said:

Surely not. It makes no difference at all that the FFA are based in Sydney. Now we've shown some spine as a club by giving Cahill the flick, and by being seen as the power behind the push for more power to the professional clubs, we can already see where we stand. 

I still find it amazing that the FFA owners are part owners of one of the clubs!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

57 minutes ago, haz said:

Bobo gets no punisment

Why am I not surprised?

As FS says, there is no logic to the explanation at all. The farcical outcome of the Bobo incident only reinforces my view that only the on-field referee should be allowed to ask the VAR for review, and that the VAR should keep his mouth shut unless asked to speak. And Shaun Evans must be as thick as shit not to realise that "arguable as to whether it is a red card" means that it is a yellow at the very least.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The thing I didn't understand with the bobo decision is why Evans wasn't called over to look at it, if the referee on field has to make the final decision then let him make it if the var cant.

Muscat was a clear red but Evans had to check it before the card came out, why not for bobo

 

Var is a joke, wrecked 3 games this week and could argue that it was influential in a fourth. Just sort it out, it can't be that hard 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, fensaddler said:

There is absolutely no logic to that at all.  Delovski concluded it was not worthy of a red, not that it was unworthy of punishment. VAR can't adjudicate less than a clear sending off, so even if Delovski thought it worthy of a yellow, he couldn't instruct the referee of that view. So at very least the ref missed a potential offence which went unpunished.

Secondly, the ref missed an offence and did not act on it. It was not fully reviewed as it would be for an MRP, just briefly reviewed. The outcome is potentially worse than without VAR, and is certainly worse in the sense of justice being seen to be done. Because without VAR, that would have been MRP, and likely adjudicated as deliberate violent conduct. Bobo is a nasty piece of work at the best of times and that will only encourage him.  I do hope what goes around comes around. Worse.

Bobo and Simon, as well as 'hand of god' Carney

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok first things first. It's a fucking red card. You can't kick someone off the ball period. So both Delovski and Evans are absolute fucking idiot. Secondly it was Delovski who stated that it wasn't a clear yellow or red card so was deemed in his words a 'grey area.' VARS doesn't get involved in yellow card incidents but with this grey area he should have flagged Evans to have a look at the incident. It would be like not checking a penalty call because it may not be a penalty. 

This whole situation stinks of favouritism. 

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, haz said:

Muscat suspended for 2 matches.

So, what weasel words would Greg O'Rourke use to explain how Muscat gets two matches, whereas two Central Coast players receive just one match each?

What with the inconsistencies surrounding the use of Video Assistant Referees, the situation has become absurd.

If I was part of City's management team I'd be demanding a "please explain." Enough is enough.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

So, what weasel words would Greg O'Rourke use to explain how Muscat gets two matches, whereas two Central Coast players receive just one match each?

What with the inconsistencies surrounding the use of Video Assistant Referees, the situation has become absurd.

If I was part of City's management team I'd be demanding a "please explain." Enough is enough.

Nah dont agree with this. Muscat's was a violent outburst, the other's were in play tackles that arguably shouldnt have been red's in the first place.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, rass said:

I've never been a conspiracy theorist - I actually laugh at those types of people.

...but in this instance, the rigged favouritism is so blatant it's just plain embarrassing. 

Don your tin foil hat, because I'm sure Frank Lowey owns a share of Sydney FC doesn't he?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, fensaddler said:

There is absolutely no logic to that at all.  Delovski concluded it was not worthy of a red, not that it was unworthy of punishment. VAR can't adjudicate less than a clear sending off, so even if Delovski thought it worthy of a yellow, he couldn't instruct the referee of that view. So at very least the ref missed a potential offence which went unpunished.

Secondly, the ref missed an offence and did not act on it. It was not fully reviewed as it would be for an MRP, just briefly reviewed. The outcome is potentially worse than without VAR, and is certainly worse in the sense of justice being seen to be done. Because without VAR, that would have been MRP, and likely adjudicated as deliberate violent conduct. Bobo is a nasty piece of work at the best of times and that will only encourage him.  I do hope what goes around comes around. Worse.

Agree that the whole situation is bullshit, and could be easily fixed by the FFA stating any incident on the weekend is reviewable (regardless of the player making it into the refs book for a card or not).

All cards are reviewed (upwards only - yellow into red, a 2 game red card offence into a 5 game red), with mistaken identity / offence taken into account.

After all, the ref is there to help the game flow as free as possible from bad / dirty play.  It's not the refs job to hand out post game punishment for serious fouls / indictments on the game.

That said, there is logic to the madness in that Bobo was never gonna be punished. To punish him from a FFA point of view says that var fucked up that badly the VAR system is so fundermentally flawed it's untenable. However, the FFA is locked into using the system for the season, for which (a.) changing mid season throws big uncertainty for is fair and just for the rest of the season, and (b.) fucks over anyone who got screwed earlier in the season since the FFA won't and can't retrospectively correct past bullshit.

The FFA are in a rock and hard place (of its own making) and has to try to see it through

Also think of the crap mid-season changes in the AFL; not exactly great for the players or viewing public

Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, mattyh001 said:

Agree that the whole situation is bullshit, and could be easily fixed by the FFA stating any incident on the weekend is reviewable (regardless of the player making it into the refs book for a card or not).

All cards are reviewed (upwards only - yellow into red, a 2 game red card offence into a 5 game red), with mistaken identity / offence taken into account.

After all, the ref is there to help the game flow as free as possible from bad / dirty play.  It's not the refs job to hand out post game punishment for serious fouls / indictments on the game.

That said, there is logic to the madness in that Bobo was never gonna be punished. To punish him from a FFA point of view says that var fucked up that badly the VAR system is so fundermentally flawed it's untenable. However, the FFA is locked into using the system for the season, for which (a.) changing mid season throws big uncertainty for is fair and just for the rest of the season, and (b.) fucks over anyone who got screwed earlier in the season since the FFA won't and can't retrospectively correct past bullshit.

The FFA are in a rock and hard place (of its own making) and has to try to see it through

Also think of the crap mid-season changes in the AFL; not exactly great for the players or viewing public

I don't think you just leave something alone when it's obvious that it has some problems. O'Rourke himself has said that the use of the VAR will be tweaked for the rest of the season. And I don't think comparisons with AFL are exactly apples with apples. The A-League struggles for support as it is and can ill afford to piss off anyone connected with the game, be they players, officials or fans. 

53 minutes ago, moops said:

Don your tin foil hat, because I'm sure Frank Lowey owns a share of Sydney FC doesn't he?

I don't think so. Sold his share a fair while ago.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, jw1739 said:

I don't think you just leave something alone when it's obvious that it has some problems. O'Rourke himself has said that the use of the VAR will be tweaked for the rest of the season. And I don't think comparisons with AFL are exactly apples with apples. The A-League struggles for support as it is and can ill afford to piss off anyone connected with the game, be they players, officials or fans. 

 

By all means I'd be surprised if they werent trying to improve the system, I just don't see them throwing it away mid season.  As such I'd expect them to back it in, even if there's been some really bad / inconsistent calls

If anything, it actually seems like it's been underfunded and done on the run.  Hence, all the shortcuts are coming back to bite the FFA

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The FFA can't remove the VAR it's being sanctioned by FIFA and along with a few other Leagues  (from memory MLS Serie A and Bundesliga) it's here to stay and will be throughout world football.

So we just have to suck it up and get it to a level that is palatable. It might take a few seasons though. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Jovan said:

The FFA can't remove the VAR it's being sanctioned by FIFA and along with a few other Leagues  (from memory MLS Serie A and Bundesliga) it's here to stay and will be throughout world football.

So we just have to suck it up and get it to a level that is palatable. It might take a few seasons though. 

Now I disagree with this assumption. VAR is a trial, and that's what the league's are doing trialling it. By the end of 2018 they will report back to IFAB (I believe) with the results and go from then on. The VAR is sound in concept but as the experimental results are showing it is fundamentally flawed in its current form. If the report shows what we are experiencing currently is the same as those other leagues then it will not be enforced

Edited by coys
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Torn Asunder said:

Tbh the only issue with the VAR in the Sydney game was the Bobo call. If that had at least been referred to the onfield ref, he would’ve made a call on the incident, be it red, yellow or no action, and we would not feel so hardly done by. 

I was as annoyed when the ref stopped play when we had the advantage in on goal.

 

Re our game agreed, I have no argument with the goal line call (the strongest possible proof of VAR being useful) or the call about Muscat's elbow.  It is the failure re Bobo which really rankles.  I gather that sits aside some other fairly dubious handball calls in other games, however.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Jovan said:

The FFA can't remove the VAR it's being sanctioned by FIFA and along with a few other Leagues  (from memory MLS Serie A and Bundesliga) it's here to stay and will be throughout world football.

So we just have to suck it up and get it to a level that is palatable. It might take a few seasons though. 

 

Its a trial period 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, fensaddler said:

Re our game agreed, I have no argument with the goal line call (the strongest possible proof of VAR being useful) or the call about Muscat's elbow.  It is the failure re Bobo which really rankles.  I gather that sits aside some other fairly dubious handball calls in other games, however.

You don't need a VAR for goal-line decisions. There is proven technology for those. It is also possible to achieve (pretty much) the same thing by having two goal linesmen for each goal - indeed, didn't we use that method last season for some/all finals matches?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, jw1739 said:

You don't need a VAR for goal-line decisions. There is proven technology for those. It is also possible to achieve (pretty much) the same thing by having two goal linesmen for each goal - indeed, didn't we use that method last season for some/all finals matches?

True. I guess more correctly correcting goal line decisions is a strong argument for some form of supportive technology, or even extra bodies. The rest, TBH, can probably be dealt with using robust match review panels. Otherwise leave it to the referees and accept that sometimes it goes your way, and sometimes it doesn't.  I'm unconvinced by VAR, to say the least.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Getting Effing pumped for this week!!!! What a way to finish the last working week of the year with a Derby!!! I reckon this will be a great test to see if Wazza can coach and to see how he tackles our senior striker shortage. I would love to think Crowely could work as number 1 striker but if im honest in the minutes he's played he hasnt showed much. 

If we win i'll be straight back to the imp after and hopefully celebrating with you lot knocking back a few jars.

Cant wait 😃

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tbh I reackon the 23rd should be locked in for the Derby. Last year it was way too early and with Christmas parties makes it tricky. But being on the 23rd it could become a kind of boxing day (cricket) tradition. 

Just a thought but obviously with any date or time someone won't like it.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Jovan said:

Tbh I reackon the 23rd should be locked in for the Derby. Last year it was way too early and with Christmas parties makes it tricky. But being on the 23rd it could become a kind of boxing day (cricket) tradition. 

Just a thought but obviously with any date or time someone won't like it.

To make it more iconic it needs to be played on Christmas day. All players under 1.75m must wear Elf Costumes and anyone above 1.75m must wear Santa Costumes. Keepers wear Rudolf Reindeer Costumes (with flashing LED nose) and the player from each team with the most cards has to wear a Grinch Costume.

BEAT THAT AFL

Edited by haz
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Jovan said:

Tbh I reackon the 23rd should be locked in for the Derby. Last year it was way too early and with Christmas parties makes it tricky. But being on the 23rd it could become a kind of boxing day (cricket) tradition. 

Just a thought but obviously with any date or time someone won't like it.

Saturday before xmas is best imo.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Jovan said:

Tbh I reackon the 23rd should be locked in for the Derby. Last year it was way too early and with Christmas parties makes it tricky. But being on the 23rd it could become a kind of boxing day (cricket) tradition. 

Just a thought but obviously with any date or time someone won't like it.

Good idea. The sort of thing that the League should do. It would get fixed in people's minds that way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, coys said:

Now I disagree with this assumption. VAR is a trial, and that's what the league's are doing trialling it. By the end of 2018 they will report back to IFAB (I believe) with the results and go from then on. The VAR is sound in concept but as the experimental results are showing it is fundamentally flawed in its current form. If the report shows what we are experiencing currently is the same as those other leagues then it will not be enforced

It beats me why IFAB didn't just use an existing model that has been proven to work like in hockey

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, jw1739 said:

So, what weasel words would Greg O'Rourke use to explain how Muscat gets two matches, whereas two Central Coast players receive just one match each?

What with the inconsistencies surrounding the use of Video Assistant Referees, the situation has become absurd.

If I was part of City's management team I'd be demanding a "please explain." Enough is enough.

It was a Grey area.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 20/12/2017 at 8:56 AM, R410 said:

VAR should be used for Penalties and Goals only.

Just get rid of it, it's not clarifying anything and is still making contentious decisions, but I bet the NRL stooges in the FFA are loving it too much, bringing a bit of familiarity into a game they have been shoehorned into running. 

Justhave a goal line ref at each end, problems solved and keeps the game going without having to go through a billion replays.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...