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RD 6 V Western Sydney SUNDAY 12/11 AAMI PARK KO 7:00PM


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1 minute ago, MXG said:

And last time we scored from open pay was against Victards.

Like last season, (but more apparently) our problem is with our attack. We are currently playing as a broken team at the moment, not because we are lacking the midfield talent but because our midfielders are positioned defensively and focus on defensive shape. Our main attacking players are either injured (Brandan and Bruno) or lacking in fitness (Carusca & Marcin). It's unclear whether Joyce will just plug in the returning players and leave our style unchanged, or whether he'll adapt the style to a more technical forward line

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15 minutes ago, rayv36 said:

That game was probably the most entertaining we have played this season. We are sitting second, with quality players to come back into the team.

Anyone would think we are 2nd last with way the forum reacts.

True, but I think the feeling is that we should have won the match 5-2 or 4 -1

a win thrown away

 

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38 minutes ago, belaguttman said:

Like last season, (but more apparently) our problem is with our attack. We are currently playing as a broken team at the moment, not because we are lacking the midfield talent but because our midfielders are positioned defensively and focus on defensive shape. Our main attacking players are either injured (Brandan and Bruno) or lacking in fitness (Carusca & Marcin). It's unclear whether Joyce will just plug in the returning players and leave our style unchanged, or whether he'll adapt the style to a more technical forward line

Why would you change a style that is clearly stingy at the back, and creating more than enough chances at the front? Because we arent dominating possession? That's stupid, same approach that failed spectacularly last year.
If we are being honest, our biggest issue right now is not putting away sitters, not creating the chances themselves.

Edited by bt50
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37 minutes ago, belaguttman said:

Like last season, (but more apparently) our problem is with our attack. We are currently playing as a broken team at the moment, not because we are lacking the midfield talent but because our midfielders are positioned defensively and focus on defensive shape. Our main attacking players are either injured (Brandan and Bruno) or lacking in fitness (Carusca & Marcin). It's unclear whether Joyce will just plug in the returning players and leave our style unchanged, or whether he'll adapt the style to a more technical forward line

What game were you watching?

We created more chances than we have in any game this season, it was easily the most exciting performance we've put in under Joyce and possibly since a few games before JVS' departure. How can you sling further crap on the system when your striker misses 3 absolute sitters that an NPL player would be expected to slot without any difficulty?

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15 minutes ago, bt50 said:

Why would you change a style that is clearly stingy at the back, and creating more than enough chances at the front? Because we arent dominating possession? That's stupid, same approach that failed spectacularly last year.
If we are being honest, our biggest issue right now is not putting away sitters, not creating the chances themselves.

Good question, you change the style to maximise the balance between attack and defence. At the moment it's clearly biased towards defence, it means we may not lose many games but then we may not win many of we can't score. I agree that our biggest problem is our poor efficiency from shots on goal, it was way better the last 2 seasons and that's why I think that it'll improve when we have our injured players back and others are fully fit. Last season we didn't dominate meaningful possession, we dominated the possession stats with meaningless possession in our own half. We turned over the ball in dangerous midfield positions with monotonous regularity

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18 minutes ago, Embee said:

What game were you watching?

We created more chances than we have in any game this season, it was easily the most exciting performance we've put in under Joyce and possibly since a few games before JVS' departure. How can you sling further crap on the system when your striker misses 3 absolute sitters that an NPL player would be expected to slot without any difficulty?

I was watching on TV, not at the ground so I'll have a different perspective. I agree that McCormack had a shocker, I'm sure that he'd agree as well. My biggest concern though was the return of old habits when we conceded we went into our shell and gave WSW control of the game. I'd also watched the City v Jets game preceding the men's game, they conceded 2 equally soft goals, probably worse, but responded by stepping up a gear with their 'silly possession game' and smashed the in-form and previously unbeaten Jets 5-2

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1 minute ago, belaguttman said:

I was watching on TV, not at the ground so I'll have a different perspective. I agree that McCormack had a shocker, I'm sure that he'd agree as well. My biggest concern though was the return of old habits when we conceded we went into our shell and gave WSW control of the game. I'd also watched the City v Jets game preceding the men's game, they conceded 2 equally soft goals, probably worse, but responded by stepping up a gear with their 'silly possession game' and smashed the in-form and previously unbeaten Jets 5-2

I honestly don't even know where to start with this post. Firstly you've got the whole W-League/A-League comparison which is in no way apples to apples. You've got a side that is so far in front of anyone else personnel wise that that 'silly possession' style has a greater effect, we've seen over the course of our existence as City in the A-League that is doesn't work in a competition where squads are so much more even.

"We went into our shell".....ROSS MISSED 4 SITTERS. Even after the WSW goal we had enough chances to absolutely BURY them, if that's what you see as going into your shell or "broken" attacking play then you're beyond help. 

I think you secretly enjoy it when we fail to win to be honest, probably makes you feel more justified in the inevitable whinging posts you put up on this forum.

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14 minutes ago, belaguttman said:

Good question, you change the style to maximise the balance between attack and defence. At the moment it's clearly biased towards defence, it means we may not lose many games but then we may not win many of we can't score. I agree that our biggest problem is our poor efficiency from shots on goal, it was way better the last 2 seasons and that's why I think that it'll improve when we have our injured players back and others are fully fit. Last season we didn't dominate meaningful possession, we dominated the possession stats with meaningless possession in our own half. We turned over the ball in dangerous midfield positions with monotonous regularity

Just to clarify, i dont think anyone thinks possession  is a bad thing. But there's a vast difference between dominating possession and creating plenty of meaningful chances, versus dominating possession and hopefully hitting it into the box. Slow, ponderous possession for possessions sake (a la last season, some of the other clubs against us this season) is a waste of time, and will more likely result in losses in the A League when you get picked off from throwing numbers forward to try and outnumber the opposition.

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1 hour ago, Embee said:

I honestly don't even know where to start with this post. Firstly you've got the whole W-League/A-League comparison which is in no way apples to apples. You've got a side that is so far in front of anyone else personnel wise that that 'silly possession' style has a greater effect, we've seen over the course of our existence as City in the A-League that is doesn't work in a competition where squads are so much more even.

"We went into our shell".....ROSS MISSED 4 SITTERS. Even after the WSW goal we had enough chances to absolutely BURY them, if that's what you see as going into your shell or "broken" attacking play then you're beyond help. 

I think you secretly enjoy it when we fail to win to be honest, probably makes you feel more justified in the inevitable whinging posts you put up on this forum.

I don't enjoy it when we don't win, not one bit.

My point about the women's team was not about possession, it was about how they responded to conceding silly goals, they didn't lose control of the game, and ended up smashing Jets.

Ross missed 4 sitters but over the course of the game, not just after we conceded. I'm not defending him, the WSW keeper had a great game and McCormack had a poor game. I'm not arguing for a possession-based game, I'm arguing for a balanced side, we didn't have that under JVS and we don't have it now. We're essentially playing with a broken team at the moment.I suggested that we may approach that when we get out missing players back, all essentially forwards and attacking players. Nobody should be happy with having so many scoring chances and converting none of them from open play. You may read my posts as whingeing, I just want us to improve a long way from that performance. If you read my first [post-game post in this thread you'll see that, as usual, there were plenty of positives from this game.

Edited by belaguttman
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Just now, HeartLand said:

\Just went to McDonalds and showed them the promo on my phone, showed her my membership and told her we won. Got my Free Big Mac. Sometimes grey clouds can have silver linings.

the handbrake actually moaned about not getting a free big mac on the way home last night

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45 minutes ago, belaguttman said:

You may read my posts as whingeing, I just want us to improve a long way from that performance. If you read my first [post-game post in this thread you'll see that, as usual, there were plenty of positives from this game.

Would you still be suggesting that we have to 'improve a long way' had McCormack buried at least one of those shots and we won? 

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1 hour ago, belaguttman said:

I don't enjoy it when we don't win, not one bit.

My point about the women's team was not about possession, it was about how they responded to conceding silly goals, they didn't lose control of the game, and ended up smashing Jets.

Ross missed 4 sitters but over the course of the game, not just after we conceded. I'm not defending him, the WSW keeper had a great game and McCormack had a poor game. I'm not arguing for a possession-based game, I'm arguing for a balanced side, we didn't have that under JVS and we don't have it now. We're essentially playing with a broken team at the moment.I suggested that we may approach that when we get out missing players back, all essentially forwards and attacking players. Nobody should be happy with having so many scoring chances and converting none of them from open play. You may read my posts as whingeing, I just want us to improve a long way from that performance. If you read my first [post-game post in this thread you'll see that, as usual, there were plenty of positives from this game.

And we created enough chances to in turn smash WSW. Just because those sitters are missed does not mean that we responded poorly, we responded well and created the lion's share of goal-scoring opportunities and but for the profligacy of a player who's meant to be too good for this league we'd have won in a canter. I do find the will to improve a 'long way' from what more than just I have stated was our most fluent attacking performance this season to indeed be whinging. Your first post had 'ugly football' as a negative, I'm not going to repeat myself again and again but I'm sure you understand why I think that comment is incredibly negative and incorrect.

Do I want to see some improvement from our current system? Sure, of course, we all do, but you're well overplaying the issues we currently have and are seemingly all too pleased to ignore any positives or view them in such a context that you can still spin them into a more negative light. 

If we put in the sort of performance we did last night in the majority of our games this season we'll be right in the fight for the premiers plate and toilet seat, probably the best of the bunch IMO, and that's without (as you mentioned) our best winger and a striker who's considerably  better in open play than the one we've brought in to cover for him

 

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1 hour ago, Harrison said:

Would you still be suggesting that we have to 'improve a long way' had McCormack buried at least one of those shots and we won? 

Yes, of course. If the goal of the team is to win the ACL then our ambitions need to be higher than just burying one chance against WSW. We shouldn't be happy with anything less than dominating teams on the pitch and the scoreboard. Other teams in the League have done this, so must we

57 minutes ago, Embee said:

And we created enough chances to in turn smash WSW. Just because those sitters are missed does not mean that we responded poorly, we responded well and created the lion's share of goal-scoring opportunities and but for the profligacy of a player who's meant to be too good for this league we'd have won in a canter. I do find the will to improve a 'long way' from what more than just I have stated was our most fluent attacking performance this season to indeed be whinging. Your first post had 'ugly football' as a negative, I'm not going to repeat myself again and again but I'm sure you understand why I think that comment is incredibly negative and incorrect.

Do I want to see some improvement from our current system? Sure, of course, we all do, but you're well overplaying the issues we currently have and are seemingly all too pleased to ignore any positives or view them in such a context that you can still spin them into a more negative light. 

If we put in the sort of performance we did last night in the majority of our games this season we'll be right in the fight for the premiers plate and toilet seat, probably the best of the bunch IMO, and that's without (as you mentioned) our best winger and a striker who's considerably  better in open play than the one we've brought in to cover for him

 

Well, we can disagree then, I'm expecting a lot more from this team. I'm not seeing the performance as all negative, far from it, but I expect better. Surely we can be critical without devaluing the entire performance?

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Some observations from last night:

-Its been talked about a lot, but I don't understand all the doom and gloom on here. Barring losing the possession stat (which as we know, doesn't really mean jack shit anyway) I thought we thoroughly dominated last night. We had 8 more shots on goal and 10 more crosses into the box into the box compared to WSW. Completely and utterly dominated, just couldn't finish last night. Or more specifically....

-Ross is shit. Outside of being good from dead ball situations, the bloke can't finish in open play. I can't wait until we get timmy or bruno back, this guy can just come off the bench. Its just not good enough the amount of opportunities a game he is fucking up.

-Stefan mauk is another player who has really fallen off the face off the earth.The last two games, i've barely even sighted him. He needs to come off the bench next game imo for either carusca of the budz.

Our defence is still fantastic however, barring a stupid error we were still pretty good last night defensively. Its just the other end of the pitch that is hurting us atm.

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1 minute ago, kingofhearts said:

Some observations from last night:

-Its been talked about a lot, but I don't understand all the doom and gloom on here. Barring losing the possession stat (which as we know, doesn't really mean jack shit anyway) I thought we thoroughly dominated last night. We had 8 more shots on goal and 10 more crosses into the box into the box compared to WSW. Completely and utterly dominated, just couldn't finish last night. Or more specifically....

-Ross is shit. Outside of being good from dead ball situations, the bloke can't finish in open play. I can't wait until we get timmy or bruno back, this guy can just come off the bench. Its just not good enough the amount of opportunities a game he is fucking up.

-Stefan mauk is another player who has really fallen off the face off the earth.The last two games, i've barely even sighted him. He needs to come off the bench next game imo for either carusca of the budz.

Our defence is still fantastic however, barring a stupid error we were still pretty good last night defensively. Its just the other end of the pitch that is hurting us atm.

I agree completely, that's why I'm disappointed in 2 lost points, it should have been an easy win

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11 minutes ago, belaguttman said:

Yes, of course. If the goal of the team is to win the ACL then our ambitions need to be higher than just burying one chance against WSW. We shouldn't be happy with anything less than dominating teams on the pitch and the scoreboard. Other teams in the League have done this, so must we

Well, we can disagree then, I'm expecting a lot more from this team. I'm not seeing the performance as all negative, far from it, but I expect better. Surely we can be critical without devaluing the entire performance?

That's what I'm advocating, I simply don't get that impression from your posts on this forum, no performance or style of football seems to result in any positive feedback beyond vague compliments sandwiched by issues you have.

3 minutes ago, belaguttman said:

I agree completely, that's why I'm disappointed in 2 lost points, it should have been an easy win

Nobody's arguing that isn't the case. But whereas you seem to be blaming what was an effective offensive display for that, other posters (rightfully IMO) are blaming the the wasteful finishing of our Marquee striker who was served multiple chances on a platter.

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You haven't read my posts then.

I'm disappointed because we should have won by several goals based on our performance. We should never be happy with a draw at home against a team below us on the ladder

I'm concerned that we haven't scored a goal from open play for ages

I'm concerned that all our forward players aren't scoring from open play and disappointed that we haven't scored over 2 goals in a game yet (all bar 1 game against teams below us), we have the players for it

I'm pleased with our defensive structure, players have a much clearer idea of their roles.

I don't think that the balance of our team will win us anything but I accept that this is likely to change with so many crucial forwards missing or unable to play 90 minutes

I'm not a personal fan of our current style but I'm also not a fan of supporting a losing team either. 

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17 minutes ago, belaguttman said:

You haven't read my posts then.

I'm disappointed because we should have won by several goals based on our performance. We should never be happy with a draw at home against a team below us on the ladder

I'm concerned that we haven't scored a goal from open play for ages

I'm concerned that all our forward players aren't scoring from open play and disappointed that we haven't scored over 2 goals in a game yet (all bar 1 game against teams below us), we have the players for it

I'm pleased with our defensive structure, players have a much clearer idea of their roles.

I don't think that the balance of our team will win us anything but I accept that this is likely to change with so many crucial forwards missing or unable to play 90 minutes

I'm not a personal fan of our current style but I'm also not a fan of supporting a losing team either. 

Quote

 

Negatives:

Same old same old, a chance to go top and we choke. Still we didn't lose but it feels like a loss

McCormack missed so many chances

Ugly football

Crowd looked poor on TV, does anyone have a figure?

Couldn't hear Melburnians on TV

The biggest negatives - we failed to capitalise on so many chances but most concerning was how we almost folded as soon as we conceded a very soft goal. Contrast that to the womens team that conceded 2 soft goals and beat the form team of the W League 5-2

 

In those two negatives there you've DIRECTLY criticized the brand of football that generated our team the lion's share of the chances. Your assertion that the football was ugly and that we folded after we concede fly in the face of what of what was produced on the pitch. 

I don't actually disagree with the majority of the points you made  in that last post to me, but numerous times in this match day thread you have been critical of the team's mentality and game style against Western Sydney which I find to be incredibly harsh given the actual events on the pitch.

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On the not having scored from open play thing, I'd usually be quite worried about this, as i was last season, however i think we have genuinely created loads of open play chances this year but havent been finishing them. As a difference, our Valkanis era play we werent even creating them; we seemed to solely be relying on pens and set pieces.

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Also, Joyce is still working out our midfield and I suspect we will soon see more of Carussca, and even Arzani.  Bruce was not really involved after he copped a whack in the 1st half ... he probably could do with a spell or a start on the bench.  I think Marcin will also get more involved in the coming weeks.  At least Ross is getting into good positions and making chances.  He will be better with Carussca behind him, and once he bangs one away in open play, the flood gates may open.

Bart is a beast! 

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At the end of the day, we played a brand of football that would have beaten our opposition any other day if our striker didn't have a shocker.

The issue some seem to have is they have a preference other than the defensive counter style that we play under Wazza. I regard this match as the best we have played all season with solid defence and waves of aggression in attack. If we continue improving upon the base that we now, I can't see us losing many more games this season.

Also we need to remember that 4 players came late and missed a bulk of the preseason which does make a huge difference with the flow of play.

Gombau would be analysing this game and counting his lucky star that his team didn't get destroyed on the scoreboard as they did on the pitch.

Very very happy with how are team is slowly building momentum.

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9 minutes ago, Torn Asunder said:

.  At least Ross is getting into good positions and making chances.  He will be better with Carussca behind him, and once he bangs one away in open play, the flood gates may open.

 

I'm of this opinion too

If he had have put that one on one   away ( early on ) he would have ended up with  a hat trick

I remember a match, last year not sure, where Bruno had half a dozen chances and just couldn't find the net, it happens

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17 hours ago, belaguttman said:

 

Same old same old, a chance to go top and we choke. Still we didn't lose but it feels like a loss. One player choked that was in no way related in any way to the old Heart/City. Felt like a lost opportunity but didn't feel like a loss as such. 

McCormack missed so many chances. Agree

Ugly football. Watching live it was the best football we've played to date and certainly most entertaining IMO

Crowd looked poor on TV, does anyone have a figure? Was a poor crowd, about 7k+

Couldn't hear Melburnians on TV depends where they focus their microphones on

The biggest negatives - we failed to capitalise on so many chances but most concerning was how we almost folded as soon as we conceded a very soft goal. Contrast that to the womens team that conceded 2 soft goals and beat the form team of the W League 5-2 Agree with the first part about capitalising. Disagree about folding. We continued to create chances throughout the rest of the first half and didn't allow them to create much throughout the rest of the game. Regarding the women's game I'd rather compare apples with apples. 

Just to bring this back to your original post.

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I thought the Melburnians were pretty good at times.  Trumpet was great.  But I reckon you guys need to cut the swearing from the chants.  That's probably why Fox Sports has moved the mics away from the active end.  Also, there's usually a heap of young kids at the stadium (I've got two of them) and it's not really good for the youngsters to be subjected to foul language ... 

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3 minutes ago, Torn Asunder said:

I thought the Melburnians were pretty good at times.  Trumpet was great.  But I reckon you guys need to cut the swearing from the chants.  That's probably why Fox Sports has moved the mics away from the active end.  Also, there's usually a heap of young kids at the stadium (I've got two of them) and it's not really good for the youngsters to be subjected to foul language ... 

Image result for can of worms

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12 minutes ago, Torn Asunder said:

I thought the Melburnians were pretty good at times.  Trumpet was great.  But I reckon you guys need to cut the swearing from the chants.  That's probably why Fox Sports has moved the mics away from the active end.  Also, there's usually a heap of young kids at the stadium (I've got two of them) and it's not really good for the youngsters to be subjected to foul language ... 

WIl never happen in any lifetime

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7 minutes ago, Torn Asunder said:

I thought the Melburnians were pretty good at times.  Trumpet was great.  But I reckon you guys need to cut the swearing from the chants.  That's probably why Fox Sports has moved the mics away from the active end.  Also, there's usually a heap of young kids at the stadium (I've got two of them) and it's not really good for the youngsters to be subjected to foul language ... 

It was really quiet on TV, I think they had the mikes in front of WSW, you could hear them often enough.

Bummed you couldn't hear the trumpet, was great last match.

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13 minutes ago, Torn Asunder said:

I thought the Melburnians were pretty good at times.  Trumpet was great.  But I reckon you guys need to cut the swearing from the chants.  That's probably why Fox Sports has moved the mics away from the active end.  Also, there's usually a heap of young kids at the stadium (I've got two of them) and it's not really good for the youngsters to be subjected to foul language ... 

Normally I would agree, and as a general rule "yes." But general rules can be broken once in a while, and the "shit part of Sydney" created a hell of a lot of laughter from the rest of the southern end. (What a pity it's not actually the "City End.") Hopefully the Melburnians leadership know where to draw the line because I don't think I want to see everything sanitised too much. I hear a lot worse on the train than I do at City matches.

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57 minutes ago, japiedog said:

I'm of this opinion too

If he had have put that one on one   away ( early on ) he would have ended up with  a hat trick

I remember a match, last year not sure, where Bruno had half a dozen chances and just couldn't find the net, it happens

Yeah I know the one you mean, it was that 4-0 win over Newcastle last season- he did manage to bag a brace, but he could have had 5 or 6 iirc

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4 hours ago, HeartLand said:

\Just went to McDonalds and showed them the promo on my phone, showed her my membership and told her we won. Got my Free Big Mac. Sometimes grey clouds can have silver linings.

Tried the same thing after I read this, turns out the bloke serving on Chapel St Maccas is an A League fan haha

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